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Thread: Cydia Acquires Rock.app

  1. #341
    A suggestion to Saurik and Cydia, it's in a mail i wrote you but as you said your inbox is flooded.

    I do not think many said much about it here, someone did mention the problem though I am sure. So the sections page in cydia have the edit button, the edit button need to be moved to and made exclusive to the changes tab or the changes tab should receive it's own.
    Why? Well pretty simple, while I might not want the ringtones and themes covering up all of my changes list I still want to quickly be able to search for something in one of those sections or browse the section without first going to edit and turning it back on again.

    Oh and while I am at it I might as well thank you for all your hard work :P, this community, the jailbreaking community that is, would have been a lot different without you and i doubt it would have been for the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by torbo401 View Post
    I think it's cool but isn't all the things in Rock, in cydia?
    No, to a big part the both have/had the same content as Rock used the same repositories as Cydia but Rock had some exclusive store items just as several store items of Cydia weren't directly available in Rock if you hadn't already bought it in Cydia

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by reanimationxp View Post
    The problem with thinking like that is that some of the repository leaders are just as hard to get ahold of as you are. If I have to wait for someone else to fix something, that means I'm pummeled by errors until they do. The purpose you're asking for is to let me get all this crap out of my face and have a working installer while the repo gets their sh!t together :)
    You misunderstood my point, which is that the bug that should be fixed is that a down repository caused some issue. Like, if I'm going to spend time coding something, I'm going to spend time fixing actual bugs, not implementing workarounds that involve a ton of UI that just put off fixing the actual bug. (In practice, though, I spend most of my time in arguments with people over bugs rather than actually fixing them: every user who is irritated tries to find me and waylays me into some conversation about whatever issue they care most about.)

    Quote Originally Posted by reanimationxp View Post
    The problem is not me, I had to go learn about dpkg and apt to correct these problems because I knew it was possible. The problem is with helping others - assisting the typical jailbreaker. I've spent days learning how to correct issues like that with Cydia, and everyone has them at some point. If someone came to me with that problem and I had to tell them how to fix it over the phone, or IM, or forum, I couldn't - at least not easily. Normal users are between a rock and a hard place. They either can't install anything because Cydia's buggered, or have to restore their phone and reinstall everything. If there was a hidden 'Click YES 5 times to prove you aren't an idiot and really want to do this' option to add the --force tag to whatever they're trying to do, at least I could tell them to do that over the phone and we could call it a day. Most of the time whatever gets screwed up by a single force in this case will not be so catastrophic as to either break Cydia entirely, or need a restore. Without that advanced option, those are the only choices for the typical user.
    You have not actually provided any concrete issues that would require this type of functionality to fix. The only state a package can get into where it is "wedged" is "half installed", and Cydia already provides a dialog that is like "omg you have a half installed package, shall I terminate it with prejudice?" that does exactly what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by reanimationxp View Post
    I have definitely seen cases where this is not the case and they are not rolled back, but instead get stuck in the AutoInstall queue, even though they don't appear in the user-created Queue. Follow @reanimationxp on Twitter if you like, and I'd be happy to direct message you the next time I see this occur. The problem is I have previously had no way to report it.
    I am already following too many people. Please PM this issue to me on irc.saurik.com if it comes up again.

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  4. #343
    I don't think so but the only thing I know is that the people who used rock over cydia are gonna miss it very much believe me I'm one them.

  5. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    ...ipad HD icon?...
    Virtually everything from this post was already discussed, in detail, earlier in this thread. I will respond specifically to the "iPad HD icon" comment, however: the new graphics designer I worked with for the iPhone 4 icon (an early version of which came with comex's jailbreak) also has provided an iPad icon, which will be in the next release.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    So the situation with the Rock members... how will that work? I am aware Mario will now be at the dev level at cydia but what will happen to the rest of the Rock crew? After the initial adding of rock features to cydia will they stay on your team in running and managing Cydia or will you get rid of them and continue to run your one man show?
    The people working on Cydia has already been increased, surrounding what I will call a "culture of correctness". That said, SaurikIT is very happy to be working with Mario Ciabarra on high-level features of the Cydia platform, as well as on aspects of the developer community program.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Edit: I would also like to see more uniformity in app descriptions with faster loading for the screenshots + more info + changelog (always annoying waiting).... Also It would be nice if you could continue to browse and do stuff while cydia is "reloading data" much the way rock does. ... Also the updated news articles that rock had would be nice
    Some of this was already addressed, so I redacted it: please please please read history before posting new questions.

    The information about packages comes from the repositories, and I believe that it is really interesting to have an ecosystem where different repositories provide different types of support and features for developers and artists. Most of my time in the design of Cydia is figuring out ways of (safely) empowering repositories to better manage their user community.

    The reloading data step, which we are constantly working on improving (and have made some great strides in more discrete events in the past) is using a /lot/ of CPU: it would not be enjoyable to try to use the device while this is happening. Our goal continues to be to improve both APT and our database integration to be able to handle all of this data in a more reasonable amount of time.

    (That said, we are talking about something like 20,000 complex data items, all stored locally with no central authority on the community, that users expect to be able to instantly search through... the App Store doesn't even attempt to do that: Apple centralizes everything on their servers and then requires you to go through the data in pages of 25-at-a-time.)

    Many people have mentioned "news" from Rock's home page... as far as I can tell all it included were popular media articles that mentioned Rock Your Phone (almost all of which were in the New York Times, as there was a reporter there that liked them). While I have posted a few of those to Cydia in the past, they have mostly been "landmark events", like "the first time jailbreaking got mentioned in the Wall Street Journal". I generally avoid bragging about every single media mention that Cydia gets, because we get them all the time.
    Last edited by saurik; 2010-09-13 at 12:52 PM. Reason: fixed quote blocks, care of paganizonda83

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  7. #345
    Livin the iPhone Life mortopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saurik View Post
    I generally avoid bragging about every single media mention that Cydia gets, because we get them all the time.
    You are one of a very very small group of people that can say something like this without the slightest hint of arrogance or boasting! Keep up the awesome work!


    I know you are still contemplating ways for promoting themes and such so allow me to throw my two cents in...

    I think a very simple way would be to just incorporate MMI's theme of the week promotion going on. Seeing as how there is pretty fair and respective system in place (in the sense that there is not much complaining about said system) here on the boards, this would help alleviate the need to put ratings/reviews on the themes. There could also be a list lower on that page in cydia that shows say the last 3-5 winners of it. That way each winner could receive 4 to 6 weeks of time basking in spotlight and giving those theme creators a relatively adequate job to at least get the ball rolling on their next big idea. Again, it's just a thought off the top of my head, I haven't spent much time thinking about the ins and outs of such a method.
    Last edited by mortopher; 2010-09-13 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Grammar

  8. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by paganizonda83 View Post
    You are one of a very very small group of people that can say something like this without the slightest hint of arrogance or boasting! Keep up the awesome work!


    I know you are still contemplating ways for promoting themes and such so allow me to throw my two cents in...

    I think a very simple way would be to just incorporate MMI's theme of the week promotion going on. Seeing as how there is pretty fair and respective system in place (in the sense that there is not much complaining about said system) here on the boards, this would help alleviate the need to put ratings/reviews on the themes. There could also be a list lower on that page in cydia that shows say the last 3-5 winners of it. That way each winner could receive 4 to 6 weeks of time basking in spotlight and giving those theme creators a relatively adequate job to at least get the ball rolling on their next big idea. Again, it's just a thought off the top of my head, I haven't spent much time thinking about the ins and outs of such a method.
    So, humorously enough, I did not realize MMI had a "theme of the week" program when that specific idea came up at a SaurikIT brainstorming session a couple weeks ago. I believe someone is currently working on implementing the idea. It seems a lot less exciting now that I know ModMyi is doing it, but they probably have a very different focus (we were looking to do highlights on the backstories of the artists, not spending as much time on the themes. Ok, yeah, looking at this this is much more simplistic than where we were going with this idea.

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  10. #347
    Hey saurik since your here would you mind responding to what I said before:
    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Wow saurik is here and active. Just got to take the chance to thank you so much for all that you did for us to make everything easier and better. Other people here already informed me of all of your plans on putting all of the Rock features in Cydia including backups and ratings (will ratings transfer over from rock?) as well as better reliablility and stability with cydia on the ipad (how about rotation and ipad HD icon?). I was at first annoyed at the immediate news but after hearing that from the other helpful people here like K. Nitsua I will be very glad to not to have to go between 2 different jailbreak app stores for certain features (ie. opening up rock just to read reviews before I buy an app or installing from rock just so it will back up my package list).

    I look forward to seeing great things from cydia and all of your mods.

    So the situation with the Rock members... how will that work? I am aware Mario will now be at the dev level at cydia but what will happen to the rest of the Rock crew? After the initial adding of rock features to cydia will they stay on your team in running and managing Cydia or will you get rid of them and continue to run your one man show?

    Edit: I would also like to see more uniformity in app descriptions with faster loading for the screenshots + more info + changelog (always annoying waiting) as well as rockapp-like previews of the themes and mods to the left of it. Also It would be nice if you could continue to browse and do stuff while cydia is "reloading data" much the way rock does. Another great feature would be a more prominent featured and top apps section that is actually UPDATED on a regular basis (instead of the once-every-other-major-firmware-updates). Also the updated news articles that rock had would be nice

  11. #348
    Livin the iPhone Life mortopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Hey saurik since your here would you mind responding to what I said before:
    What part(s) did he leave out? I think he covered all of them just a few posts back.

    ---------------

    @Saurik Before I forget, the one suggestion I have seen on this thread a couple times that I totally agree with would be the Edit function being duplicated for the Changes page. I have almost all of the themes sections turned off but I do search for ringtones, soundboards, etc. from time to time. I like being able to search for these, but I would prefer to edit the changes section to display just updates that pertain to my installed packages and changes to the utilities, tweaks, apps, etc.
    Last edited by mortopher; 2010-09-13 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  12. #349
    Lol i like how saurik quotes me "...ipad hd icon...". What about the second to last paragraph (situation of rock members) and the last paragraph (suggestions). I see the updated popular theme part discussed but not the faster loading of screenshots + changelog, ect., and doing stuff while reloading data, rock-like previews, and updated articles like rock had.

    Oh and maybe he could tell me something about sleepers.net's Kryptes. It may be crappy but it is competition the somehow has some easier UI but crappy handling of apps.

    ratings transferring and ipad rotation??
    Last edited by SnowLeo; 2010-09-13 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  13. #350
    My iPhone is a Part of Me Halten77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saurik View Post
    For the record (and I understand you were not making this point): Icy (like Rock) did not use APT; the developers seemed to believe that complex package inter-dependencies simply did not exist, and therefore did not even attempt to model them correctly. For example, it simply did not support Provides:, which meant I had a continual flood of e-mail from users regarding "I can't install this core package" (which I think would now-a-days include WinterBoard, but at the time was most often anything in the Java section) because it depended on something provided by a virtual package. It was Icy that made me enact the policy "if you have ever used a package manager other than Cydia on your device I really cannot support your installation anymore", which was only then reinforced by the issues Rock had with some of the same parts of APT.
    Yes I wasn't trying to make that point, though thank you for the response. I personally am not bothered that Rock is no more (Even though I used it a lot) but yes it gave me these errors and stuff and turned deadly. Now I'm on the Cydia side and no problems. The reason I posted up the source code for Icy is for someone who isn't happy about Cydia, to WORK to get something they'll be happy with. They can get the current source codes and make it a correct installer that doesn't tale shortcut, yet put a nice UI to compliment users. We could go somewhere with this, "Could not can even less, will."

  14. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Lol i like how saurik quotes me "...ipad hd icon...". What about the second to last paragraph (situation of rock members) and the last paragraph (suggestions). I see the updated popular theme part discussed but not the faster loading of screenshots + changelog, ect., and doing stuff while reloading data, rock-like previews, and updated articles like rock had.

    Oh and maybe he could tell me something about sleepers.net's Kryptes. It may be crappy but it is competition the somehow has some easier UI but crappy handling of apps.

    ratings transferring and ipad rotation??
    He answered them in the following post, it looks as though he made a simple copy and paste error that can happen when trying to quote the same post multiple times and accidentally attributed the quotes to reanimationxp.


    Quote Originally Posted by saurik View Post
    Virtually everything from this post was already discussed, in detail, earlier in this thread. I will respond specifically to the "iPad HD icon" comment, however: the new graphics designer I worked with for the iPhone 4 icon (an early version of which came with comex's jailbreak) also has provided an iPad icon, which will be in the next release.



    The people working on Cydia has already been increased, surrounding what I will call a "culture of correctness". That said, SaurikIT is very happy to be working with Mario Ciabarra on high-level features of the Cydia platform, as well as on aspects of the developer community program.



    Some of this was already addressed, so I redacted it: please please please read history before posting new questions.

    The information about packages comes from the repositories, and I believe that it is really interesting to have an ecosystem where different repositories provide different types of support and features for developers and artists. Most of my time in the design of Cydia is figuring out ways of (safely) empowering repositories to better manage their user community.

    The reloading data step, which we are constantly working on improving (and have made some great strides in more discrete events in the past) is using a /lot/ of CPU: it would not be enjoyable to try to use the device while this is happening. Our goal continues to be to improve both APT and our database integration to be able to handle all of this data in a more reasonable amount of time.

    (That said, we are talking about something like 20,000 complex data items, all stored locally with no central authority on the community, that users expect to be able to instantly search through... the App Store doesn't even attempt to do that: Apple centralizes everything on their servers and then requires you to go through the data in pages of 25-at-a-time.)

    Many people have mentioned "news" from Rock's home page... as far as I can tell all it included were popular media articles that mentioned Rock Your Phone (almost all of which were in the New York Times, as there was a reporter there that liked them). While I have posted a few of those to Cydia in the past, they have mostly been "landmark events", like "the first time jailbreaking got mentioned in the Wall Street Journal". I generally avoid bragging about every single media mention that Cydia gets, because we get them all the time.

  15. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Lol i like how saurik quotes me "...ipad hd icon...". What about the second to last paragraph (situation of rock members) and the last paragraph (suggestions). I see the updated popular theme part discussed but not the faster loading of screenshots + changelog, ect., and doing stuff while reloading data, rock-like previews, and updated articles like rock had.
    What?! All of these specific things you bring up in this paragraph after "but not the" are the specific things I covered in the reply. As for your first paragraph, every single thing in it but "ipad hd icon" was covered many pages ago on this forum thread: if you aren't going to read what I'm typing unless it is directed explicitly to you then I'm wasting my time on this forum. (To be clear, this is the #1 reason why I get burned out answering people's questions, and why I've pretty much given up on Twitter as a support channel.)

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Oh and maybe he could tell me something about sleepers.net's Kryptes. It may be crappy but it is competition the somehow has some easier UI but crappy handling of apps.
    I do not understand what you want from me regarding this.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    ratings transferring and ipad rotation??
    Ratings and reviews has been covered on this forum thread multiple times. As for iPad rotation, the announcement FAQ in Cydia went so far as to tell you exactly who was working on stuff like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by paganizonda83 View Post
    He answered them in the following post, it looks as though he made a simple copy and paste error that can happen when trying to quote the same post multiple times and accidentally attributed the quotes to reanimationxp.
    Touché: I have corrected those quotation references. Most of what he was complaining I cut out, however, was discussed earlier in the thread, and the real issue is that he needs to be reading all of the replies: the fact that I screwed up the reference on that single post when the correct one was a single paragraph above should not have caused all of that content to be ignored. :(
    Last edited by saurik; 2010-09-13 at 12:55 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  17. #353
    Dont recall reading about the situation of rock members other than mario but ill go back and reread. Faster loading of the screenshots, changelog, and more info I cannot find mentioned specifically but whatever not a huge deal.

    I was just wondering what you thought of the Kryptes interface especially how it has like two tabs in the changes for like new or popular apps by clicking on the tabs. I posted a screenie a little bit back. Sorry man about all this and its great to have you here responding to annoying pests like me.

  18. #354
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    Respect the "H"
    lol but in all seriousness, really there's nothing we can do now, arguing will do little, arguing here is just making requests, in a rude manner. As another said. Let's just sit back and see where this goes. After all... All I want is a better UI and a cool Dev Portal like Rock's. I think Cydia should make their own website. Now that's a formal request, not informal like the rest of you. Please and thanks Saurik. I respect your decisions so no flaming on you if none of this happens. Do what you think is right.

  19. #355
    Livin the iPhone Life mortopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Dont recall reading about the situation of rock members other than mario but ill go back and reread. Faster loading of the screenshots, changelog, and more info I cannot find mentioned specifically but whatever not a huge deal.
    The screenshots, change-log, more info, etc. are not under his control as he has previously addressed. All of that information is controlled and sourced directly from the repositories themselves.

    As far as Rock members are concerned, the way I understood it is that he had already increased the amount of staff at SaurikIT (chpwn probably being the most well known) and thus will not be requiring/taking on former Rock employees. Now a decent amount of that is just inference on my part, but I've seen him mention bits and pieces here and there about having taken on more employees but never mentioning any of them coming over from Rock.

  20. #356
    Default Request
    Quote Originally Posted by saurik View Post

    The information about packages comes from the repositories, and I believe that it is really interesting to have an ecosystem where different repositories provide different types of support and features for developers and artists. Most of my time in the design of Cydia is figuring out ways of (safely) empowering repositories to better manage their user community.
    After reading all the posts, many of us now understand the complications involved , however I have a small request

    MyWi (or Intelliborn products) listing is very nice in Cydia after the aquisition. You can see description, screenshots, changelog, etc., in one page rather than tapping different options to see all this information. I really appreciate it

    How about publishing this as a Cydia standard for listing all the applications? If repository owners/maintainers like the standard, they will use it, but Cydia did publish it standards.

    You can also display a message in the app/theme whether the listing confirms to the standards or not. This will avoid a lot of confusion for users why each listing is different. And also users/devs can put pressure on repos to stick to the Standards published



    Thank you for taking time and responding to all queries


  21. #357
    That is great news, so can I now unistall Rock and use MyWi and My3g with no problem with the ones recently in Cydia on Friday?
    ------------------------------

    iPhone 4
    4.1 Firmware

  22. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by paganizonda83 View Post
    It doesn't exactly search like that. When you type something in the ....

    On a side note, what is up with the lack of respect in these forums? I mean how on earth do i have more thanks than Saurik? Absolutely absurd to not thank him.
    I concur completely...
    Can we say "false sense of entitlement!"

    These people speak as if they deserve a jailbreak in the first place!! Something so Many of them don't understand on a rudimentary level much less at it's core.
    I Bet if they were to poll everyone as to what a root file was the list of answers would be ridiculous!

    Yet with very little understanding they still Demand! And use vulgarity as if that were a way to expedite the process.

    Learn to show respect and it will go a LONG way!
    Even if you see a flaw- express it in such a way that you leave the developers with their dignity and you also don't make yourself look like a fool and laughing stock.

    My 2 cents... Carry on

  23. #359
    To: ToyVan Cc: Saurik, FreeAple

    I've been using your Glass Orb theme since the early days, after all
    this time GO is still my favorite theme but now I'm looking for the HD
    version for the iphone 4 and believe me I'll be more than happy to pay
    for it. I'm not sure but I think that it was already available on Rock
    which I decided long ago not to use due to functionality issues, now
    that Rock is "gone" I'm able to enjoy Intelliborn products again, but
    can't find GO for I4.
    After reading your post on MMI, I completely agree that the business
    model for the developer was far superior than Cydia's, but I truly
    believe that if Saurik is able to merge the correctness of Cydia and
    the business model of Rock we are going to be all winners, honestly I
    do not know how he does it, I don't think he even sleeps, having said
    that I hope that he understands that this venture can not be a one man
    show, with the millions of users and thousands of developers using
    Cydia he has to upgrade his human resources to help him with the load,
    I also know that he is working on that according to his recent posts,
    I just hope it doesn't take him that long, the load is going to be
    immense.
    Thank you for your art and hard work and for making the jailbreak
    community so interesting.
    The JB community will provide Saurik with the best business consulting he could ever hope for.

    Alex Aragon

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  25. #360
    OS X - excellent enough to put on phones LGgeek's Avatar
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    Question withdrawn.
    Last edited by LGgeek; 2010-09-14 at 06:37 PM.
    I don't drink kool-Aid, I don't join cults.
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