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Thread: [LEAKING] To those who find it acceptable...

  1. #281
    That's what erks me. When u make comments like "people expect you to work hours at something for free". Nobidy expects you to do anything. You do it if you want to. And as for the complaining about all the hours and lost time with your family, again your choice, if you think $ makes it better then your wrong. I am nit defending pirating though. Just stop the woe is me self rightous bs. And to try and say jb is done for legit reasons is a farce. It is done because it is locked in the first place and people want to prove they can circumvent it. It is done to gain access and to create an underground market. If you want to sell your goods then fine but remember that the market would be much smaller if it were only made up of totally honest people, for most of them wouldn't have even jb their device. As for trial themes? I wouldn't even bother. The more checks and balances you add the more you become the very thing you jailbroke from in the first place.

    Why is it NOT ok for a pirate to circumvent the system to avoid paying but it IS ok for a developer to circumvent a system to get paid?
    Last edited by floppy_joe; 2010-05-28 at 01:08 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. #282
    Theme Kingpin TCcentex's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm sorry for continuing to drop all over this thread but I feel strongly about this subject. So here it is in my opinion. The issue being discussed here is the leaking of paid themes. In most cases this occurs because one person acquires it legitimately then posts a link on xsellize or someplace similar for all to download for free. This is what I'd like to see stop. I certainly can't speak for all those who sell themes, but personally I have no problem whatsoever if someone wants to try it first, or just comes out an d honestly says "I don't like to pay for themes". I would gladly give them my theme but expect something in return - whether that be feedback or a donation, it doesn't matter. The most important thing I want in return is that you don't take the liberty to distribute my theme to others. It's mine and they can come to me if they want it. I BOUGHT my first theme from Bars, then went to the forum here and asked if I could have some icons made. I felt so thankful that someone helped me out, even it it was Bars personally, I always felt like my measely $2.00 wasn't ENOUGH for the theme and the service that followed. So I started to contribute myself. I started working icon requests for others like me and in time, due to my contributions (which consisted of NO MONEY) Bars made me a part of his beta team and I haven't HAD to pay for one of his themes since, but still do anyway because I feel he's earned it.

    That's all it comes down to. Like cpjr said, the people who blatantly disagree with this usually take and take and take..."This is missing my Orbit icon and 40 others - can you take your personal time and make these for me (although I STOLE it from you and will never come back or give a flying flip about you... I'm done with you).

    Again, you don't get something of value for nothing. If you don't like paying for paid themes, be courteous and ask the dev directly or go download some free pile on Cydia. I'm not geohot or saurik - i'm me and I want something for my hard work. If you do acquire a paid theme, do it above the table then maybe even give a little something back, even if it's a simple "Thanks, that was real cool of you." Then keep my damn theme to yourself.
    Last edited by TCcentex; 2010-05-28 at 05:37 AM.

  3. #283
    ^^First off, "you" isnt "me"....I dont make and/or sell themes.....I DO however spent countless hours on this forum helping and contibuting FOR FREE. So there is no selfrightous anything. Im am just pointing out a fact, in that, no matter what your stance is on whether or not themes should be free (which by the way, Im not even defending whether they should cost money) - if they are being sold for a price and you take them without paying - it is theft, plain and simple. Thats my whole point.

    And the whole "nobody expects anybody to do anything" is also BS, look how much people RANT AND RAVE when they are waiting for the next jailbreak to be developed and released for example - again, tons of work goes into developing the software so they can get it FOR FREE - yet they still want to complain because it wasnt out when they needed it.

    I am also bowing out of this conversation because it is obvious pirates are pirates, they dont care and they never will.....and they obviously think it is them who needs to make the decisions as to what should be paid for and what should be free....instead of the developers who actually put fourth the work.

  4. #284
    "The Chuck Bass of Theming" k.nitsua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudsontripod View Post
    Nitsua, zausser, and bars have made some great stuff. But the fact is, most of these themes are buggy, they rely on buggy third party software, and they slow the iPhone down, hog battery power, and are useless on non-jailbroken iPhones. So I think most people pay what they think these themes are realistically, practically worth: $0.00. And since any user can log onto Cydia and pick up all these themes for free, I don't think a trial version is the answer. Seriously, why would someone try out a scaled down version of a theme for free when they can try out the full version for free?

    cpjr said "It was never meant for that reason, unfortunately there is the large group of people that only care about themselves and only want to take....so yes, now that is a big part of it." My answer, there are some people(certain theme creators) who inevitably will want to take your money.
    So... I'm have a hard time understanding this....

    ... You want us to stop making themes? I don't get it.
    #eli7e revived me

  5. #285
    Also, for anyone who thinks pirating themes is fine BECAUSE they should be free and you shouldn't have to pay for someone's hobby, I have a suggestion - you kids (and most of you appear to be young) stop taking your allowance from your folks. After all, why should your parents have to pay to support your hobby? I mean, it's not fair to THEM since they're giving you money that they could've otherwise wasted on their OWN hobbies, so you can buy your Coke Classics, your brand-name shoes, and your Internet connection.

    I mean, nobody should pay you for enjoying your hobby, right? Nobody should give you money for that sort of thing, yes? Hell, if you've got a blog, take it off Wordpress or Blogger and host it on your own server, and pay for the bandwidth out of your own pocket; don't let those companies subsidize your connection...

  6. #286
    these piraters should understand that we are not just paying for themes .. we also pay for support, without support some themes wont be even complete or some user would be lost and not know how to setup themes

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by k.nitsua View Post
    So... I'm have a hard time understanding this....

    ... You want us to stop making themes? I don't get it.
    I don't care what you do bro. Make themes, don't make em', whatever. Life goes on. Besides that's not even the point I was making. People need to get off the whole money thing. The world has enough people in it trying to take my money, trying to take everyone's money. Some dude throws a theme together and wants to take my money. Some bum at a stop light wants to wash my windshield and tells me I owe him.

    I don't need more people in jailbreak land trying to get my green too. If you enjoy making themes then make em'. If you wanna get paid, get a real job, because theming a jailbroken iPhone isn't a real job no matter how much time you spend doing it. And I said it once I'll say it again, when theme creators give me the option of donating $0, I may consider donating some real money. But demanding I pay for your theme is not going to compel me to pay you anything. Seems like somewhere along the way, some of you guys lost touch with reality a bit. I'm just trying to keep it real.

  8. #288
    I THINK that we should all just stop making themes that way no more pirating simple as that

    keep it rizeal dawg

  9. #289
    "The Chuck Bass of Theming" k.nitsua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudsontripod View Post
    I don't care what you do bro. Make themes, don't make em', whatever. Life goes on. Besides that's not even the point I was making. People need to get off the whole money thing. The world has enough people in it trying to take my money, trying to take everyone's money. Some dude throws a theme together and wants to take my money. Some bum at a stop light wants to wash my windshield and tells me I owe him.

    I don't need more people in jailbreak land trying to get my green too. If you enjoy making themes then make em'. If you wanna get paid, get a real job, because theming a jailbroken iPhone isn't a real job no matter how much time you spend doing it. And I said it once I'll say it again, when theme creators give me the option of donating $0, I may consider donating some real money. But demanding I pay for your theme is not going to compel me to pay you anything. Seems like somewhere along the way, some of you guys lost touch with reality a bit. I'm just trying to keep it real.
    So if don't want to pay for our themes... why don't you just pirate them like you do for everything else?

    I mean, you aren't going to go to the record label companies and tell them to go "free" or to movie production companies and say "hey buddy, I'm tired of spending money, if you guys like making movies, then you should do it for free".

    I do have a real job, and I'm a full time student. I've made free themes for a VERY long time, and when my job wasn't so overbearing and my college life was pretty simple - it was a nice escape.

    It's different now, my job is very arduous and I'm a pre-med student about to enter the RN program. I can quit theming without much remorse right now, but its safe to say a majority of this community would rather me not. So I ask people to purchase my work. God, you act like we make a sh*tload of money, because we don't. And you act like 1.99 or whatever is a lot. 30% of our revenue goes to the Cydia and Rock Stores anyways. Our "hobby" helps the jailbreak community.

    And you know what, I DID offer a $0 donation option... guess what, I was lucky to get $10 bucks a month... and I'm pretty sure you weren't one of those people.

    It's been said several times in this thread, the cost of the theme is mainly the support. I answer well over 50 emails a day just about themes and then I check these threads here on MMi and on other sites, including those pirates sites because I have recently been getting donators from there, even though they have the option to just pirate the damn thing.

    Look man, conviction is a luxury for those on the sidelines. When you make something that could remotely be conceived as conducive or time-consuming as what we do and then release it for free, then we will be having a different conversation. But if you're just gonna be a whining brat who can't spare a buck or so because mommy doesn't give you enough of an allowance or you are just downright THAT cheap, then bug off.

    Go on some piracy sites and steal our sh*t. Rest of the pirates don't come in here and say "I got your sh*t!" now do they. No. Just do whatever it is you do and leave your narrow-minded liberal intellect for those other sites and stop coming into this thread and making everyone who works their a$$es off so that we don't have to look at that ugly stock UI and actual find more use out of the damn thing that we stare at for a sizable amount of the day appear to be nothing but hungry money grabbers.

    If a prostitute can ask for some money for the blowjob she just gave, then I can ask for money for the days of work I put into my themes. Work is work. You want to do something for free, go to a soup kitchen, travel to Haiti and help out. I've done plenty of humanitarian work in the Philippines and intend to join Doctors Without Borders after I'm done with med school. WTF have you done?

    Seriously man, I usually don't lose my cool but I think everyone can agree with me on this one...

    STFU and GTFO.
    Last edited by k.nitsua; 2010-05-28 at 06:01 AM.
    #eli7e revived me

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  11. #290
    Wooooooow...

    And the K-dizzle says it how it is! My thoughts exactly, just, written better than I ever could have put it.






    Your Chuck Bass.....

  12. #291
    I was under the impression that this is a discussion forum for people to discuss certain things. I never attacked anyone and did nothing more than state my point of view. Obviously, Nitsua, you have a problem with anyone who doesn't adhere exactly to your point of view. You lost your cool because I make sense and you don't like it. You lost your cool because you can't have it your way and just maybe I'm right. Yeah, you make some nice themes but that doesn't give you the right to attack members of this forum. I will not STFU or GTFO. I am giving you feedback on a pay per theme system that isn't ideal for anyone. I'm giving you my perspective. I don't need to go to a pirate site to download cracked themes, any user can download them right from Cydia for free. You can get any of yours or bar's or anyone's themes free off of Cydia.

    I think that you would be better off welcoming outside opinions rather than attacking them...because it makes you look greedy and out of touch with the jailbreak community. And fyi, I'm not the one whining. I'm perfectly content to leave the current system as it is. However you might want to consider that some changes need to be made on your part if you want to get the user to throw you a few more bones. By the way, I never claimed to have pirated any theme, regardless of the accusations. But if the system needs work then it needs to be discussed, and all opinions need to be valued if change is going to be effective.

  13. #292
    Awe d**n, k really went off on that one. Very much needed post indeed. Kudos to you my friend! I agree totally.

  14. #293
    "The Chuck Bass of Theming" k.nitsua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudsontripod View Post
    I was under the impression that this is a discussion forum for people to discuss certain things. I never attacked anyone and did nothing more than state my point of view. Obviously, Nitsua, you have a problem with anyone who doesn't adhere exactly to your point of view. You lost your cool because I make sense and you don't like it. You lost your cool because you can't have it your way and just maybe I'm right. Yeah, you make some nice themes but that doesn't give you the right to attack members of this forum. I will not STFU or GTFO. I am giving you feedback on a pay per theme system that isn't ideal for anyone. I'm giving you my perspective. I don't need to go to a pirate site to download cracked themes, any user can download them right from Cydia for free. You can get any of yours or bar's or anyone's themes free off of Cydia.

    I think that you would be better off welcoming outside opinions rather than attacking them...because it makes you look greedy and out of touch with the jailbreak community. And fyi, I'm not the one whining. I'm perfectly content to leave the current system as it is. However you might want to consider that some changes need to be made on your part if you want to get the user to throw you a few more bones. By the way, I never claimed to have pirated any theme, regardless of the accusations. But if the system needs work then it needs to be discussed, and all opinions need to be valued if change is going to be effective.
    I'll tell you why I lost my cool. I've spent a good few weeks talking and coordinate with the other theme creators to work on this system, because yeah, it needs a fixin' up.

    - There are WAY too many paid themes out there, a majority of which are crap - not on personal taste or style but because of their lack of content and quality.

    - There is a sizable amount of jailbreakers who flat out refuse to pay for anything or are just unable to due to not having a credit card or what not.

    So, on my free time (rarity), I've been coming up with ideas with them. One of which is going to be trial versions, which are waterdown versions of the theme to test and try before committing to a full version. I've gotten a wide majority of the theme creators who like this idea. Think about it, we are giving away FREE stuff, and a majority of them agree. Why? Because I stated my case to them. This is, after all, a community, and we want to give this community the best experience possible.

    The remainder of my free time? Well, let's look at today. Today is my first day after Finals, I begin my work week tomorrow... so how did I celebrate? I've been sitting in this chair for the past 10 hours... theming and coding. Not only for my themes, which I make a small profit from, but for other people as well who I am helping out just for the hell of it.

    To say I'm "out of touch" with the jailbreak community shows just how ignorant you are in this manner. Because I'm ask for a buck or so makes me "out of touch" how? Don't come in here claming this and that, and using this "forum is a discussion" line and expect US to just bow down and listen. State some facts, buddy. SHOW us how YOU best represent the community that I am so "out of touch" with.

    A majority of people who will read this post will be shocked at what I'm saying, because I am a nice guy, I've been very supportive and even when personally attacked I stay standing with a smile. But man, you've got some damn nerve coming in here and claiming this and that. A debate is one thing, I'm all for that. Debate team for 2 years, baby, and I NEVER back down from an argument. But claims with no cause or facts or ANYTHING just makes you look inept for the task.

    Like I said, yeah, I read your arguments. I STILL say you sound like a whining brat who wants his 1.99 back or whatever. On that note, have you ever PURCHASED a theme? Are you bitter about it? Did you not get the support you wanted from it?

    I hope for you sake you've actually PURCHASED a theme. Because then you just look stupid. That's like me not having had driven a Honda and yet tell everyone that Hondas suck.

    You want to take a better stand in this argument? Purchase a theme. Purchase any goddamn theme you like. See if you feel it's worth it or not. See if it's worth your precious 1.99 USD. See if it's worth giving the theme creator a measly 1.39 USD and Cydia or Rock 0.60 USD. You know, those stores that you get all your free s*** in. Try that, then come back then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on.

    Do that, and then we'll talk. If not, then I'm done here.
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  16. #294
    @ hudsontripod - complaining about the price of themes and not offering a solution or an alternative isn't showing us your point of view, it's still just complaining. and how can you say Nitsua is "out of touch with the jailbreak community"? you have what, 33 posts and 5 thanks? Nitsua has almost 2,000 thanks so he's OBVIOUSLY done a lot more for this community than you have. you want free themes which offer little to no support? go download a theme with 3 icons and a wallpaper. if you want something made with integrity, if you want something detailed, something that someone has obviously put their heart and soul into making, but still aren't willing to spare the cost of one cappuccino, well man, that just makes you look like a cheap bastard
    Last edited by chrisangel13; 2010-05-28 at 06:55 AM.

  17. #295
    mod edit
    Quote Originally Posted by k.nitsua View Post
    A majority of people who will read this post will be shocked at what I'm saying, because I am a nice guy,
    I'm Dutch, it'll take a lot more to shock me, I still think of you as a nice guy.
    Last edited by Bo Troxell; 2010-05-29 at 12:45 AM.

  18. #296
    You guys are always so busy patting each other on the back telling each other how amazing you all are it was probably a shock to see someone like me come in here and have the nerve to not lavish you with praise. I appreciate the passion expressed on the matter but it still sounds mostly like whining and crying over not getting paid.

    And chrisangel13, in case you missed it the other 3 times, I did attempt to offer a solution or at least a suggestion, which is more than I've seen others do. My suggestion is that themers place the option to donate $0 on all paid apps as a way to at least steer users to the actual creator of the theme. Would you rather have a guy grab a cracked theme from some repo or a free app from you? I think, and this is just my opinion, that users are much more likely to donate money if you at least extend the option to get it for free.

  19. #297
    "The Chuck Bass of Theming" k.nitsua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudsontripod View Post
    ...My suggestion is that themers place the option to donate $0 on all paid apps as a way to at least steer users to the actual creator of the theme... I think, and this is just my opinion, that users are much more likely to donate money if you at least extend the option to get it for free.
    Why does that sound familiar... hm...

    Quote Originally Posted by k.nitsua View Post
    And you know what, I DID offer a $0 donation option... guess what, I was lucky to get $10 bucks a month... and I'm pretty sure you weren't one of those people...

    ...It's been said several times in this thread, the cost of the theme is mainly the support. I answer well over 50 emails a day just about themes and then I check these threads here on MMi and on other sites...

    Look man, conviction is a luxury for those on the sidelines...
    >_>
    #eli7e revived me

  20. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by k.nitsua View Post

    A majority of people who will read this post will be shocked at what I'm saying, because I am a nice guy,
    I've always thought you were kind of a jerk K, but in a good way.

    Anyways. I was recently offered by someone $10 paypal for my purple mod of bars 24k. I told him I could not do that unless he gets bars to tell me he has paid and I would give it to him for free, in fact just donate $2 and bars will email it all too you. Thanks to bars I found enjoyment in the community again. Pull up a chair, let me explain.
    I was very involved with Zausser's earlier themes, I learned all about it in his threads. Watched alot of people grow in skills. Most helpful strangers I had ever seen. I remember the night Z annaounced he would start charging for themes. Like always I voiced my opinion. Although I understood why he wanted to charge I still felt sad. It was all different for me after that, sort of lost its spirit, that grass roots feel. Hard to volunteer when there is compensation involved. Then some people wanted to start charging for their mods, again to each their own and I wont name names but some actually got pushy about it. Id get a pm, "hey man can you paypal me some $ for that custom thing I did" Hell im all for asking for the order but dude if you want to help then help but dont dog someone. Things started getting too silly for my taste.
    I moved on and one day stumbled on Bars Elite theme. Awesome, simple. Felt more like the iphone was meant to be. But a paid theme. Like I am prone to do, I posted my reluctance over purchasing a theme. Some of course flamed me, but Bars just hit the Thank You and said "ok". Great attitude. Well, I bought the theme, then donated to be on beta. Got back to modding and helping. found the fun again.
    I still have mixed feelings on charging for themes, that does not justify my just stealing it, it only justifies my decision to not buy it.
    And yes cp you are self-rightous because you think you are absolutely right and tell some that they are absolutely wrong. That is a closed mind. No point in going back and forth, I agree.
    Lastly, about stripped down trial themes. Eventually people will still leak and pirate the complete theme. I for one will not even bother with it. Same reason I dont bother with trial apps or lite apps. I actually think you will make the pirating worse. What would I do? I would not charge, i might take donations and if it were taking too much of my life away, I would not do it. If you do charge then you have to live with the unfortunate consequence of people leaking it, just like you live with the consequence of voiding your warranty or bricking your device when you jailbreak. Stealing is not right no matter where you are but if you decide to set up shop in a broken into community, shits gonna happen.
    Last edited by floppy_joe; 2010-05-28 at 09:51 AM.

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  22. #299
    Theme Kingpin TCcentex's Avatar
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    There is a place here for paid themes. Like K said earlier the percentage that goes to Saurik helps the jailbreak community. Have you noticed in the past few months that Cydia doesn't take 10 minutes to load anymore? Seen improvements there overall? That stuff costs real money in the real world. I wish we could all live in a society where I could just have what I want, and I'm pretty sure that's been tried out in some societies and people are usually VERY happy with the products and services that follow, right? No - they suck. What also sucks are some themers or contributors demanding money in addition to the regular cost of the theme for what should simply be good free service and the opportunity to be a part of this wonderful group and help the good themers to be motivated to keep pumping out good work. I'm sorry you had to exerience that Floppy - that really stinks and I hope stuff like that happens as little as possible - it sure doesn't sound like any of the helpful and gracious devs who have been mentioned in this thread.
    Last edited by TCcentex; 2010-05-28 at 12:58 PM.

  23. #300
    R.I P. Master Theme Creator flybritn's Avatar
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    I agree that if someone spends there time, tallent and efferts to create a theme and wishes to charge a small fee for it they should have the right to do so and if you a %$^& pirate thebn you soulf get your on photoshop and make your own themes. leve ours alone

    I just had submitted 3 complete themes to modmyi within 2 days of release, the nice folks at xsellize added them to their repo without permission, without asking fisrt and without even giving me credit for my work. when I asked them to please romove my themes they replied by calling a a jackass and said NO!

    i realy dont care if you are the type person that thinks we should all give u our themes or apps for free.. there are plenty of free ones that you can get even my themes for now are free, but soon will not be. I want you to come cut my lawn, wash and wax my car for free!
    nothing wrong with us asking for a small fee for our work. At least we have earned it and not steeing it or pirateing ... i think they use to Hang pirates didnt they lol
    thats just my opinion and yes I am upset cause I got ripped..

    I read on here where someone said "Get a real job" i think you should take the money you get form your "real job" and pay for stuff.

    BTW TCcentex I realy love your ifusion my friend and co admin on out page did a review of it very good work.
    Last edited by flybritn; 2010-05-28 at 10:26 PM.

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