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Thread: Total noob to ipods and jailbreaking, some questions...

  1. #1
    What's Jailbreak? Cyber Akuma's Avatar
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    Question Total noob to ipods and jailbreaking, some questions...
    I just got an iPod 4G, its the first iPod I have ever owned. It came with iOS 4.1.

    I have been trying to Google this information for hours, but have not been able to find this information, and most of the sites just link back to the iphone dev blog.

    1. First of all, this SHSH Blob thing, while I know what it is, I am a bit confused on backing it up. There appear to be more than one program to do it. Do I need iTunes installed to use it? (I only have iTunes installed on my mac, I really don't like installing it on my Windows systems). I also noticed that some programs apparently back it up to a server, is that really safe for someone else to know my SHSH Blob? Should I back it up before or after I jailbreak?

    2. As far as I am aware, currently the only thing that can jailbreak my iPod is limera1n right? Is it stable yet? (I remember hearing reports of it not working or being very unstable/buggy). Anything else I should know? I assume that I can't use this to jailbreak my device until a mac version is out since I don't want to install iTunes on windows correct?

    3. I can undo any and all hacks if I need to take the device in for warranty service right?

    4. What happens if a new firmware (that obviously will have the jailbreak patched) is released before I jailbreak my device? Will iTunes force me to download it or can I reject it? Will the app store, iTunes, gamecenter, or anything else like that reject my iPod if it is not updated to the latest firmware?

    5. Does iTunes attempt to update my iPod automatically or do I need to manually allow it? I fits automatic, can I disable it?

    6. Any advice for what to do AFTER I have jailbroken my iPod? I remember hearing that I should change my SSH password since some viruses can spread through the default password, how do I do that? And anything else I need to know about or you would recommend?

    7. Can I always jailbreak my device no matter what once I have that SHSH Blob?

    8. Finally, what happens if there is an update that I want? Is there a way to keep the jailbreak while updating? Especially if the new version has also been jailbroken? What about all my programs/settings that were installed that are not official? Will I need to reinstall them or re-configure everything?

    Thank you, I hope these questions weren't too annoying.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber Akuma View Post
    I just got an iPod 4G, its the first iPod I have ever owned. It came with iOS 4.1.

    I have been trying to Google this information for hours, but have not been able to find this information, and most of the sites just link back to the iphone dev blog.

    1. First of all, this SHSH Blob thing, while I know what it is, I am a bit confused on backing it up. There appear to be more than one program to do it. Do I need iTunes installed to use it? (I only have iTunes installed on my mac, I really don't like installing it on my Windows systems). I also noticed that some programs apparently back it up to a server, is that really safe for someone else to know my SHSH Blob? Should I back it up before or after I jailbreak?

    2. As far as I am aware, currently the only thing that can jailbreak my iPod is limera1n right? Is it stable yet? (I remember hearing reports of it not working or being very unstable/buggy). Anything else I should know? I assume that I can't use this to jailbreak my device until a mac version is out since I don't want to install iTunes on windows correct?

    3. I can undo any and all hacks if I need to take the device in for warranty service right?

    4. What happens if a new firmware (that obviously will have the jailbreak patched) is released before I jailbreak my device? Will iTunes force me to download it or can I reject it? Will the app store, iTunes, gamecenter, or anything else like that reject my iPod if it is not updated to the latest firmware?

    5. Does iTunes attempt to update my iPod automatically or do I need to manually allow it? I fits automatic, can I disable it?

    6. Any advice for what to do AFTER I have jailbroken my iPod? I remember hearing that I should change my SSH password since some viruses can spread through the default password, how do I do that? And anything else I need to know about or you would recommend?

    7. Can I always jailbreak my device no matter what once I have that SHSH Blob?

    8. Finally, what happens if there is an update that I want? Is there a way to keep the jailbreak while updating? Especially if the new version has also been jailbroken? What about all my programs/settings that were installed that are not official? Will I need to reinstall them or re-configure everything?

    Thank you, I hope these questions weren't too annoying.
    1. When you jailbreak and load cydia for the first time, it gives you the option to "Make your life easier". Press yes and it backs up you SHSH for 4.1 and any future firmware to sauriks servers.

    2. Yes, currently you can only use limera1n to jailbreak ipod 4G on 4.1. A mac version is on the way, but you might be best off to just install itunes on your windows PC.

    3. Yes, plug your ipod into your mac/PC and click restore in itunes. This restores to factory settings.

    4. Apple will give you the option to download and install the latest firmware. Click no and you will be fine. App store etc will still work fine on older firmwares.

    5. It automatically checks for updates but doesn't force you to install them.

    6. Yep recommend changing your SSH password, possibly install an anti-virus type app, although I never do.

    7. Yes. You can always downgrade back to a previous firmware if you have your SHSH blobs backed up.

    8. Every time you sync with itunes it creates a backup, when you either restore or update, you are able to restore you settings from that backup. It gives you the option.

  3. #3
    Retired Moderator Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber Akuma View Post
    I just got an iPod 4G, its the first iPod I have ever owned. It came with iOS 4.1.

    I have been trying to Google this information for hours, but have not been able to find this information, and most of the sites just link back to the iphone dev blog.

    1. First of all, this SHSH Blob thing, while I know what it is, I am a bit confused on backing it up. There appear to be more than one program to do it. Do I need iTunes installed to use it? (I only have iTunes installed on my mac, I really don't like installing it on my Windows systems). I also noticed that some programs apparently back it up to a server, is that really safe for someone else to know my SHSH Blob? Should I back it up before or after I jailbreak?
    There are two primary methods to back up SHSH blobs--either directly on the iPod through Cydia (by selecting "make my life easier, thanks!" when you first open Cydia after the jailbreak) or via an external program called TinyUmbrella (free download, The Firmware Umbrella for OS X and Windows). iTunes is not necessary for either method.

    I would strongly recommend you use TinyUmbrella. Not only does that program save your SHSH blobs locally on your hard drive, but it also directly sends your blobs to Cydia. The Cydia SHSH storage server for all jailbroken devices is incredibly overloaded right now trying to get all the new blobs for people who jailbroke and just touched the button in Cydia. By sending yours direct, you are not reliant on the server getting yours on your behalf, and you have a backup copy. (Besides, if you ever want to restore your iPod, you'll need TU to get the blobs delivered to your device).

    SHSH blobs are only used to restore a particular device to a particular firmware; therefore, the blobs are useless to anyone who is not in physical possession of your device. Even then, all they can do is restore the firmware. You may save your blobs via TinyUmbrella before or after the jailbreak; on the device however, it can only be done after the jailbreak (because Cydia is only present following a successful jailbreak). A note: after one set of blobs is successfully saved with Cydia, Cydia will attempt to automatically save any and all future blobs for your device it can. However, there's no harm in manually obtaining new blobs via TinyUmbrella for local safe-keeping (and it never hurts to ensure Cydia gets your blobs in a timely manner).

    2. As far as I am aware, currently the only thing that can jailbreak my iPod is limera1n right? Is it stable yet? (I remember hearing reports of it not working or being very unstable/buggy). Anything else I should know? I assume that I can't use this to jailbreak my device until a mac version is out since I don't want to install iTunes on windows correct?
    As of this moment, that is correct. Limera1n is beta software and is quite loaded with bugs. Though iTunes is not necessary for limera1n to jailbreak a device (and therefore you may jailbreak with your Windows machine), I would advise not jailbreaking right this minute--wait EITHER for limera1n to exit beta and appear on the Mac or wait for the Chronic Dev's tool greenpois0n (which hopefully is less buggy).

    3. I can undo any and all hacks if I need to take the device in for warranty service right?
    Yep. Just restore the device to a stock firmware via iTunes.

    4. What happens if a new firmware (that obviously will have the jailbreak patched) is released before I jailbreak my device? Will iTunes force me to download it or can I reject it? Will the app store, iTunes, gamecenter, or anything else like that reject my iPod if it is not updated to the latest firmware?
    It's highly unlikely, and this particular jailbreak cannot be patched by Apple on any device currently sold (though Apple can make the jailbreaks tethered, or requiring computer assistance to boot). iTunes will ask you if you'd like to "download and upgrade your iPod's firmware" but all you have to do to halt all prompts is click "cancel/don't download" and check the box next to "don't ask me again."

    Though you'll be unable to receive any new features enabled via firmware (for example Airplay via iOS 4.2), Apple has not yet revoked features present in older firmwares for devices that are still using older versions. (Besides, you can always spoof your firmware version easily if the need arises, so you're covered either way).

    5. Does iTunes attempt to update my iPod automatically or do I need to manually allow it? I fits automatic, can I disable it?
    As long as you select "cancel/don't download" and select the "don't ask me again" box when prompted, iTunes 10.0.1 and earlier (current version) won't attempt to update your firmware without you initiating the process. Please note you'll have to re-do the "don't download" bit for every new firmware that's released (all of five clicks, max).

    6. Any advice for what to do AFTER I have jailbroken my iPod? I remember hearing that I should change my SSH password since some viruses can spread through the default password, how do I do that? And anything else I need to know about or you would recommend?
    I'd recommend playing around in Cydia looking for any software that seems interesting or would improve how you use your device--a good first choice is Winterboard, for lots of cosmetic themes are administered that way. You only need to change your SSH password if you install OpenSSH from Cydia (not recommended unless you do SSH terminal work). There's a FAQ/tutorial on how to change your SSH password on the front page of Cydia.

    7. Can I always jailbreak my device no matter what once I have that SHSH Blob?
    You can always downgrade/restore your firmware to iOS 4.1 with your SHSH blob. As long as your device is on iOS 4.1, it will always be an untethered jailbreak.

    8. Finally, what happens if there is an update that I want? Is there a way to keep the jailbreak while updating? Especially if the new version has also been jailbroken? What about all my programs/settings that were installed that are not official? Will I need to reinstall them or re-configure everything?

    Thank you, I hope these questions weren't too annoying.
    You'd use a tool called PwnageTool (for Mac only) to build a custom IPSW (firmware file) that is based on a particular stock firmware (say 4.2 or 5.1 or whatever) and then you'll add in whatever tools you want through the creation process. Then you just follow the directions for restoring the device (usually through Recovery or DFU mode and iTunes) and you'll restore into a jailbroken firmware of your choice, possibly untethered (no guarantees there). Anything not put in the custom IPSW during its creation, however, will have to be manually reconfigured/reinstalled after the restore process.
    Last edited by Orby; 2010-10-11 at 09:51 AM.

  4. #4
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    1. You need iTunes I think for the driver, but not necessarily for tinyumbrella itself. Even if you have them backed up on Cydia's server, it's a good idea to keep them locally. I wouldn't be concerned about them being on that server. Not sure what saurik could do with them anyway. If you have iTunes on a mac, just get tinyumbrella for your mac. You don't have to sync the phone with the computer you're using to pull the blobs. Just use any computer with iTunes and email the blob to yourself.

    8. You'll usually lose anything jailbreak related on an update between firmwares... However there is an excellent cydia app called pkgbackup that will save everything and restore it after you update. I think it costs $5 but it's well worth it. Anything non-jb related will be restored by iTunes each time you update. FYI, I would not recommend restoring from a backup when upgrading to a major release (such as 5.0 when it arrives). So much changes between the full numbers that it's a good chance to start new. It's only once a year anyway.

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    What's Jailbreak? Cyber Akuma's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks for the quick and detailed replies everyone

    One thing I don't get though, if its possible to downgrade at anytime as long as you have a SHSH Blob, and your iPod/iPhone doesn't need to be hacked (for now) to obtain the SHSH Blob, how come people needed to find a new exploit in 4.1 to jailbreak the newer devices like the iPod 4g? Couldn't they have gotten the blob and downgraded if they wanted to?

    Also, thanks for the clarification on what untethered meant, I was wondering about that but forgot to ask. So a tethered jailbreak means I would need to manually jailbreak the device on my computer every boot?

    Hmmm, what is this Airplay thing that 4.2 will add though? I hope it won't be too much of a hassle to get the features that 4.2 gives on a jailbroken iPod 4g.

    Seems I will need to find a FAQ on this PwnageTool thing since it sounds pretty involved

    Oh! And one last thing I forgot to ask, is there a way to enable HDR photos on an iPod 4G now?

  6. #6
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    Good questions! The shsh blob is provided by Apple. When you restore, the computer asks Apple for the blob (which is specific to that phone) before it will finish the process. The thing is, Apple only signs the newest one. That means that once 4.2 is out, you'll no longer be able to get your 4.1 blobs, even if you're on iOS 4.1.

    Yes on the tethered question. Not sure on the HDR photos question. 4.2 is pretty close to release and since limera1n is a bootrom exploit, we'll probably have a jailbreak right away. Greenposion and probably devteam's pwnage tool will be updated/released and thus, if you're already jailbroken with 4.1, you can pre-jailbreak the firmware file and your iDevice will accept it.

  7. #7
    What's Jailbreak? Cyber Akuma's Avatar
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    Ah, I thought the SHSH Blob was static on a per-device basis, wasn't aware it was different with each firmware version.

    Hmm, I guess when 4.2 is out I will have to check on how to pre-jailbreak a firmware file, asking now would just be speculation since it isn't out yet.

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    Well you can pre-jailbreak other firmwares... just depends on how the jailbreak program works. This might explain why it works, but yes, we won't know which program to use exactly until it comes out...

    Some utilities like limera1n have you update to the newest firmware and then run a program that jailbreaks the phone. Other jailbreak utilities work differently. Some jailbreak the firmware before you load it on your phone, and then you simply update with this custom made firmware through iTunes. This is possible because jailbreaking the phone the first time enables it to accept custom (pre-jailbroken) firmware from then on, as long as you stay jailbroken.

    It's part of the "once jailbroken, always jailbroken" system.

  9. #9
    What's Jailbreak? Cyber Akuma's Avatar
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    Ok, so I checked again and now both limera1n and greenpois0n are available for MacOS, I can finally jailbreak my Ipod Touch 4g.

    So, just to make sure I got everything right, backup my SHSH Through TinyUmbrella first, then jailbreak, then tell Cydia to "make my life easier" right? And the SHSH will only change if I change the firmware, not before and after I jailbreak right?

    And should I even bother choosing between linera1n or greenpois0n, or are they so similar that I should just pick one and not worry? Any nasty or annoying bugs one has that the other does not?

    Is there any risk of bricking? I am worried about all the bricked and "stuck on apple logo" replies I see now and then...

    By the way, a bit technical just because I am curious, does all Jailbreaking do is basically use a security hole to install the equivalent of a Package Manager or 3rd Party app store (which in theory means any code can be installed other than an Appstore if the payload was designed this way) and otherwise the device is the same, or does it make some actual behind-the-scenes changes to the system software as well?

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