View Poll Results: Purplera1n or Redsn0w

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  • Purplera1n

    131 63.90%
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Thread: 3g[s] Jailbreak/Unlock Redsn0w vs. Purplera1n

  1. #141
    Retired Moderator StealthBravo's Avatar
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    posixninja = iPhone Master

  2. #142
    ^+1

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by posixninja View Post
    wow, it's really flattering so many people love purplera1n!! to be honest the dev team has so many zombie followers I figured everyone would go running to redsn0w when it was released. geohot really tried his hardest to make purplera1n everything that redsn0w wasn't, and he really pulled it off! the original plan was to make it a 10 second jailbreak, but it turned out to be far more difficult then we anticipated, but 30 second jailbreak is still awesome I think. on a technical level, I believe purplera1n is superior to resn0w as well. the lower level firmware patches are much cleaner, and don't require the firmware to be flashed decrypted like redsn0w does. as for the kernel patches, there's no more messing with ldid for signing binaries, everything is allowed to run unsigned! my only complaints with purplera1n is it leaving the freeze.app on there, and having to reboot once it's done, but those things, and more will all be fixed in the next version .
    Sorry posix, but I think I have to nip this one at the bud. Your "lower level firmware patches" are pretty much the exact same thing we have always done, except for 24kpwn you MUST pre-decrypt the LLB since you do not bother cleaning up the stack after the exploit, instead you run the execute image function directly. This pretty much directly contradicts your "require the firmware to be flashed decrypted" assertion. In fact, I've now read the disassembly for it, and I think it overwrites one of the exception vector hooks without fixing it back up. I might be wrong, but clean it is not. Otherwise, besides the rushed payload, it looks like a stock 24kpwn implementation.

    The other iBoot patches are done exactly in the same way, with the addition of changing the iBoot version string to some vanity one related to purplera1n. It also patches the permission flags. Combined with a flag to patch whether encryption is enabled in this situation, this serves to override the checking of metatags. Unfortunately, it also leads to side-effects in iBoot (all permissions ARE enabled) as well as extraneous warning messages (image verification failed, etc.). We've been extremely conservative with our patches in the past... Patching strings without the user knowing about it is a no-no in our book, because these things like the iBoot string are reported to iTunes (every time you connect your iPhone in recovery mode) and can be easily seen by Geniuses if you have to take your iPhone in for repair. It's especially troublesome if your Home button is broken or something and you can't perform a restore. We like to keep things looking as unmodified as possible, just in case.

    Finally your kernel patches: I hope you don't mind me saying they were epic fail the first time around. :P I think geohot mistook my mobilesubstrate patch for the main cs patch. Result was ugly warnings during SSH and provisioning breaking for some people. In RC2, he had adopted all of OUR patches EXACTLY except the one that allows LogoMe to work (we have to include that one because it also enables the traditional quickpwn method of flashing to work). So there's effectively no difference (except for no LogoMe). I don't know what you're talking about with not having to ldid.... People can just try that and see that's not true. =P

    The great thing about purplera1n is the fact that it's able to extract the firmware source files directly from the iPhone itself. The cool thing about it is that it's able to do the NOR flashing part in iBoot. This is something that I wanted to do myself for the longest time, but just didn't have the time to. The problem for the iPhone Dev Team is that our software has to work for four different types of devices across a huge range of firmware versions, so we are constricted. We want to write things so we only have to update one codebase per firmware revision, not four. We don't really have iBoot exploits across all platforms. We also prefer not to force the user to keep around an old IPSW of iBoots that are both vulnerable and that we've written specific payloads for (something purplera1n will have to do). Geohot can be more flexible since he only has to support one device on one version. If he wants to do these cool things for 3gs only, that's great! But the dev team has to take the flak for taking the broad view again, unfortunately.

    You are welcome to "steal" our patches and keep the cool in-iBoot NOR flashing technique for the best of both worlds (though I don't envy having to maintain that!). I think it's important to keep a homogenous set of patches for the stability of the jailbroken platform. We've already lost that somewhat, since I have to build capability to detect the "right" kernel to avoid bricking people's phones... or else dynamically patch people's kernels which I really don't know is the responsible thing to do.

    Again, congratulations on purplera1n! It was technically well-done (though we differ on patching philosophies), but let's stick to facts about jailbreaks. (Though I thought it was all geohot's doing... I wasn't aware anyone helped him with it).

  4. #144
    Forum Manager Bo Troxell's Avatar
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    ^ thanks for clearing it up planetbeing. Most of us are in the dark.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by planetbeing View Post
    Sorry posix, but I think I have to nip this one at the bud. Your "lower level firmware patches" are pretty much the exact same thing we have always done, except for 24kpwn you MUST pre-decrypt the LLB since you do not bother cleaning up the stack after the exploit, instead you run the execute image function directly. This pretty much directly contradicts your "require the firmware to be flashed decrypted" assertion. In fact, I've now read the disassembly for it, and I think it overwrites one of the exception vector hooks without fixing it back up. I might be wrong, but clean it is not. Otherwise, besides the rushed payload, it looks like a stock 24kpwn implementation.

    The other iBoot patches are done exactly in the same way, with the addition of changing the iBoot version string to some vanity one related to purplera1n. It also patches the permission flags. Combined with a flag to patch whether encryption is enabled in this situation, this serves to override the checking of metatags. Unfortunately, it also leads to side-effects in iBoot (all permissions ARE enabled) as well as extraneous warning messages (image verification failed, etc.). We've been extremely conservative with our patches in the past... Patching strings without the user knowing about it is a no-no in our book, because these things like the iBoot string are reported to iTunes (every time you connect your iPhone in recovery mode) and can be easily seen by Geniuses if you have to take your iPhone in for repair. It's especially troublesome if your Home button is broken or something and you can't perform a restore. We like to keep things looking as unmodified as possible, just in case.

    Finally your kernel patches: I hope you don't mind me saying they were epic fail the first time around. :P I think geohot mistook my mobilesubstrate patch for the main cs patch. Result was ugly warnings during SSH and provisioning breaking for some people. In RC2, he had adopted all of OUR patches EXACTLY except the one that allows LogoMe to work (we have to include that one because it also enables the traditional quickpwn method of flashing to work). So there's effectively no difference (except for no LogoMe). I don't know what you're talking about with not having to ldid.... People can just try that and see that's not true. =P

    The great thing about purplera1n is the fact that it's able to extract the firmware source files directly from the iPhone itself. The cool thing about it is that it's able to do the NOR flashing part in iBoot. This is something that I wanted to do myself for the longest time, but just didn't have the time to. The problem for the iPhone Dev Team is that our software has to work for four different types of devices across a huge range of firmware versions, so we are constricted. We want to write things so we only have to update one codebase per firmware revision, not four. We don't really have iBoot exploits across all platforms. We also prefer not to force the user to keep around an old IPSW of iBoots that are both vulnerable and that we've written specific payloads for (something purplera1n will have to do). Geohot can be more flexible since he only has to support one device on one version. If he wants to do these cool things for 3gs only, that's great! But the dev team has to take the flak for taking the broad view again, unfortunately.

    You are welcome to "steal" our patches and keep the cool in-iBoot NOR flashing technique for the best of both worlds (though I don't envy having to maintain that!). I think it's important to keep a homogenous set of patches for the stability of the jailbroken platform. We've already lost that somewhat, since I have to build capability to detect the "right" kernel to avoid bricking people's phones... or else dynamically patch people's kernels which I really don't know is the responsible thing to do.

    Again, congratulations on purplera1n! It was technically well-done (though we differ on patching philosophies), but let's stick to facts about jailbreaks. (Though I thought it was all geohot's doing... I wasn't aware anyone helped him with it).
    purplera1n is 99% all geohot's doing, it seems we only share the blame for it =P. Honestly the only things I did was help him convert his logo to img3 format, and gave him the kernel patches for rc2. regarding rc1, he released that without any warning or testing by us, so that was his own fail. I admit I haven't looked at redsn0w 0.8 much, most of what I'm saying is what i've taken from what I seen on 0.7, so if I'm wrong about anything I apologize. As for the iboot patches, I think he purposely didn't use your patches just to avoid any "you stole our patches" ********. but, you're right, redsn0w and purplera1n really aren't too different, I think the payload can be greatly improved, but he still won't share that with us, so there's not much we can do. I have a lot of respect for you planetbeing, you're one hell of a programmer and a hacker, and redsn0w is very well made. I prefer purplera1n, but I don't consider nither one to be ideal

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthBravo View Post
    posixninja = iPhone Master
    planetbeing = the greater posixninja
    Last edited by posixninja; 2009-07-13 at 04:05 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  6. #146
    ^Overall I think both teams did great and we all appreciate the hard work that went into redsn0w and purplera1n. Keep up the good work
    If I helped you, hit the button or be Banned!

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  7. #147
    Forum Manager Bo Troxell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melech518 View Post
    ^Overall I think both teams did great and we all appreciate the hard work that went into redsn0w and purplera1n. Keep up the good work
    ^+1

  8. #148
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    yumac69sr

    In regards to your question. It depends on what happens to your iPhone 3G S after Jailbreak. Because if it so happens that like it did to me, then yes Apple will know you JB your iPhone and your warranty is voided. If something happens and ur able to restore through iTunes then ur fine. But if ur phone stays in some recovery mode, then u can't take it back to apple, cause when u turn on the phone u will have a pineapple if jb with redsnow or geohotz pic if jb with purplera1n I guess. My iPhone 3g was in some type of mode with steve jobs cartoon with nebpea or something and I'm pretty sure my warranty would have been voided. Cause when I turned it on it had the pineapple logo vs the apple logo. It happened when i tried to upgrade to firmware 3.0. I guessed I was supposed to have un jailbroken it before trying to upgrade firmware. I guess I was lucky that someone stole it recovery mode and all and I had to buy a new iPhone 3gs which I will now be very careful to jailbreak! But can anyone answer me if mines went into that recover mode because I tried to upgrade before restoring itto unjb state? Was that my mistake? So now please someone tell me what is safer redsnow or purplera1n?
    Last edited by maggieaco; 2009-07-14 at 04:20 AM.

  9. #149
    Use purplera1n for its simplicity. If you have had trouble jailbreaking in the past then purplera1n is for you!
    If I helped you, hit the button or be Banned!

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  10. #150
    Retired Moderator dale1v's Avatar
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    (O_o)
    /leaves thread 10 IQ points higher

  11. #151
    My iPod is a Part of Me bteamer's Avatar
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    ^ So that would you around what now? 12?

  12. #152
    Retired Moderator dale1v's Avatar
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    and it's STILL a multiple of yours

  13. #153
    Just my 2 cents based on my experience...

    Ran purplera1n beta and it worked after a few tries. Restored and ran purplera1n RC1 to get the kernel patches. Again, it took a few times but eventually worked.

    Been having safe mode crashes and battery life issues ever since.

    Restored and tried redsn0w and it worked perfect the first time. So far no safe mode crashes. Yet to see on the battery life.

    Either way big thanks to both geohot and the dev team as you are all way smarter than I am. :P

    7

  14. #154
    Retired Moderator StealthBravo's Avatar
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    Run RC2

  15. #155
    ^+1

    Of course RC1 gave you problems, that is why there is RC2
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  16. #156
    My iPod is a Part of Me bteamer's Avatar
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    ^True dat
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  17. #157
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    Talking Redsn0w or Purplera1n - Both Get The Job Done, Thanks.
    I finally used Redsn0w to jailbreak my iPhone 3GS and thankfully everything went smoothly during jailbreak and all is working fine. The only thing I noticed at first was that after downloading Categories and Winterboard the icons where not the proper ones. But after a phone reboot icons where back to normal and all apps work perfectly. So far so good, battery charges fine and my internet connection is still 2x faster than the 3g as Apple advertises.lol But the best thing this time around is that I still have the Apple logo instead of the Pineapple when I turn on the phone and that rocks. Cause we sure don't need a show and tell to Apple if anything goes wrong with the phone. So, I'll finish by saying that we are all lucky to have Geohotz and the Dev-Team, ALL YOU GUYS ROCK! Because a virgin iPhone sure is BORING. THANKS AGAIN.

  18. #158
    I did it with redsn0w and it failed, cydia would fliker and close immediately when pressing on it, and continuously pressing on it dosent do anything to it

  19. #159
    can I use purplera1n for a 2G iPhone on 3.0?
    Samsung Galaxy SII (i777)
    iPhone 4 16GB

  20. #160
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    I'm sorry to hear that. Then you might want to try and restore your iPhone and then jailbreak with purplera1n RC2. That might help. For me everything went ok with Redsn0w. I even unlocked my iPhone 3GS last night with ultrasn0w and it went fine as well. Wish you luck and let us all know how it went.

    I was just wondering if everyone that has reported having problems with Redsn0w jailbreak, if you all clicked on Cydia & Icy when jailbreaking? Because I followed Dev-Teams directions, they recommended us not to click on Icy for the time being to install it from Cydia after Jailbreak instead. Thats what I did and didn't have any problems what so ever. If you installed both maybe that is where the problems starts. Please let me know, thanks.
    Last edited by maggieaco; 2009-07-19 at 04:30 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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