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Thread: Need To Partially Virginize For Apple Store Replacement

  1. #1
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    Default Need To Partially Virginize For Apple Store Replacement
    First of all, I would like to say that I know there are topics that exist for the "pieces" of my problem (and trust me, I've read alot on this board, just today became a member). But I felt that it would be OK to post my complete issue on this board since I am not exactly 100% sure what to do and looking for confirmation.

    Scenario:
    I'm looking to return my iPhone to Apple, it is still under Warranty until Dec 11, 2008.
    Reason:
    Ever since day 1, the iPhone has been exhibiting signal problems of some sort.. A mixture of problems; varying signal bars, "No Service" errors, "No SIM" errors (which have vanished now after a while), dropped calls and call distortion (which I am told by a friend). The iPhone would drop calls constantly even when I had a full 5 signal bars. None of which were experienced with my old Nokia phone with the same service.

    So far, the "No SIM" errors and dropped calls have vanished. But call distortion and the signal problems are still rampant (including the "No Service" I get, which has seem to gotten worse after a restore and re-iPlus'd). The concentration now is the call distortion that I'm hearing about and the signal bar problem.

    I'm pretty sure that the phone was originally 1.1.3 when I got it with a 4.6 bootloader, but I'm not sure about any other details. I also remember when using iPlus that it downgraded my 4.6 bootloader to 3.9FakeBlank.

    iPhone Information (Grabbed From HWInfo):
    iPhone Model # A1203
    Model Number: MA712LL/A
    Device Model: iPhone 1,1 (M68AP)
    Baseband Modem Firmware: 04.04.05_G
    EEPROM Version: 208
    EEPROM Revision: 1
    Current Bootloader Version: 3.9_M3S2
    Serial: ---49XXXXXX

    I unlocked using iPlus 2.0b which was the safest method at the time. I used the tutorial which could be found here. iPlus 2.0b claims to be fully reversible, but I can not find an adequate tutorial for my exact phone version.

    So, as far as I know, the original condition(s) were:
    Original State:
    Firmware: 1.1.3
    Bootloader: 4.6
    Baseband: 04.03.13_G ? (not 100% sure)

    Current State:
    Firmware: 1.1.4
    Bootloader: 3.9FakeBlank
    Baseband: 04.04.05_G

    I am now looking to restore the phone to an acceptable state by Apple employees.

    I've seen the BootNeuter program and I think that might be all what I need to match with a 1.1.4 firmware as legit.. I don't think Apple will care too much on first look. I'm seeking to get a replacement anyway.

    Problem Summary:
    After I got the iPhone, I unlocked using iPlus 2.0b using the tutorial found here. Installed programs, removed some stuff too.. Phone seemed to have worked fine for awhile, then phone started dropping calls somewhere along the line. I procrastinated for a while, dealing with it and assumed the settings / phone got cluttered and decided to restore and start over again when I was ready..

    After restoring in iTunes to 1.1.4, it fixed the call drops and most stability issues but unfortunately after closer inspection did not fix the varying signal problem... In certain areas my signal will vary from 1-5 bars no matter what (from 3 to 1, from 5 to 3, etc, 3 to No Service, and even from 5 to No Service). I found online that this was a common problem and that it was being experienced by a LARGE majority of iPhone users (AT&T and Unlocked Carriers). Some more worse than others, commonly known as the infamous "signal problem." The signal is never constant in around 10 minute period, and I've even had instances where it drops below 0 bars and goes directly to "No Service," even worst than before the restore. All this happening when the phone is not even moving an inch! Even going into test mode did not change the signal bars at all.

    Notice: Out of all these problems, putting the iPhone on the dock and syncing the phone brings the signal back up to 5 bars.

    I restored my iPhone back to 1.1.4 using iTunes and proceeded to have iPlus 2.0b do it all once again. For a while, it seemed successful, calls weren't dropping! That and the fact that the signal stability seemed to have gotten slight better, but the coverage area got worse.. While the call dropping problems were ALL fixed, it seems to have worse signal coverage now than before (I get "No Service" where I used to get 2 bars). The funny thing is that the signal will remain constant for a longer period of time, but still drops off... At first it was dropping to 0 in 3 minute intervals, now it holds the signal for more time (around 10 minutes) but eventually drops it off and returns. Crazy..

    Solution Speculation?:
    So now, basically all I'm having is unsatisfactory signal problems. I hope I'm not being unrealistic. If this phone is supposed to be doing way worst than my old $7 Nokia phone then I am really shocked..

    I really think that the problem lies deep between the modem Baseband and/or the hardware and has been there ever since factory. It has really been the only thing constant from all the software modding/restoring I've done. I've already tried a wide range of things without bricking my phone, my phone is still technically working.. But will only work in the best signal area where the bar variation is not even noticeable.

    When it comes to clearing and restoring the modem Baseband, I'm willing to try a nice collection of steps tailored for my specific situation, but right now I just feel like giving up and getting it replaced by Apple. I'll just do whatever I can to get it back to Apple acceptable condition for my replacement. I hope I have not confused any of the members here, but I basically used iPlus twice, one on the first time from the factory and another on the second time after I restored.. Any suggestions?

    I've been at the AppleStore many times for other reasons and purchases, so a few geeks/geniuses recognize me. I just need my iPhone to match up to my lies that I didn't tamper with it.. LOL

    I'm thinking BootNeuter is all I will need to get the Bootloader to correspond with 1.1.4 firmware and for the phone model. But if there are any other steps I need to preform, let me know!

    Thank you for your time!
    Last edited by DarkPraetor; 2008-05-06 at 07:24 AM.

  2. #2
    I think that you can do it running Bootneuter with 4.6 BL, not Neutered and not unlocked as factory comes. Then do a Restore to destroy also JB and activation.

    (sorry for my siouxglish) ;-)

  3. #3
    were you able to return?? Do you have a legit ATT iphone plan? I'm having a similar problem with signal strength..plus people say they hear themselves echo when talking to me. I jailbreaked, unlocked & activated via iLiberty. I don't have a legit ATT plan. When I use any of my other phones there are no issues with signal or call quality. It's hard to tell if its a hardware problem, the jailbreak, unlock activation or not having a legit Iphone plan. If the phone is re-virginized how can they tell if it's a hardware problem? Can they test the phone without me having a legit plan...that's my dilemma...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by teride View Post
    were you able to return?? Do you have a legit ATT iphone plan? I'm having a similar problem with signal strength..plus people say they hear themselves echo when talking to me. I jailbreaked, unlocked & activated via iLiberty. I don't have a legit ATT plan. When I use any of my other phones there are no issues with signal or call quality. It's hard to tell if its a hardware problem, the jailbreak, unlock activation or not having a legit Iphone plan. If the phone is re-virginized how can they tell if it's a hardware problem? Can they test the phone without me having a legit plan...that's my dilemma...
    Legit AT&T iPhone plan? Sorry, not here. I'm using T-Mobile Flexpay over here with the Unlimited Internet added. It shouldn't matter which type of service though.. It is mostly a common problem with the unit itself as I've seen, and not just with Unlocked phones. iLiberty is not that very different from iPlus I hear.. I doubt it's the software trickery at all, since I've restored my phone by now multiple times trying to see if it would work and it makes minor if no difference at all to restore, relock, rejailbreak, etc.

    I have used BootNeuter successfully without any errors, I followed instructions very carefully. I flashed the chip about 4 times for testing purposes and experimentation to see if the problem would go away, including even re-flashing the baseband. Each time everything completed successfully but the signal problem is still there, waving from 4 bars to 1 and etc.. It'll first appear normal and is constant 3 bars no matter where you move it, BUT as soon as you make a call, it starts going back into it's "normal mood" I've been experiencing and drops right down to 0/1. I can now say I've done pretty much (almost, perhaps?) everything software-wise, it HAS to be the hardware or a power problem..

    Yul's post seems correct to me.. To my eyes it appears if I use BootNeuter with the correct settings back to 4.6 (just flash 4.6 selected, everything else off and a iTunes restore), I'll restore and lock my phone to acceptable condition by an Apple employee! Thank you for the heads up, I now use BootNeuter with confidence.

    I'm going to back up the stuff I have on it on my computer and set up an appointment with the AppleStore hopefully tomorrow, I'll post an update on what happens here. I'll catch them at a busy time where they'll probably just have to take my word and take care of it.. If I put enough pressure on the guys, I should be in and out in no time. I really have no idea how to replicate the signal glitch since it happens quite randomly for me..

    I wouldn't fear too much of having to have a plan with AT&T in order to get service from Apple. I've read up this as well and it seems customer service won't really ask if you have a legit plan, they will check to see if your iPhone firmware has been "tampered with" and if it matches your warranty information on the computer, if anything. Sometimes they will just hand you a new phone no questions asked, but I don't suspect that they will do too much. I will post my personal experience on here. You have to remember that nowhere in Apple policy does it say that you HAVE to have activated and legit service to take advantage of the warranty. In fact, in Apple policy it is encouraged that you take your SIM card OUT of the phone before handing it over to Apple employees. For example, I've taken a MacBook Pro back still under warranty and gotten a free upgrade without a receipt, just the serial number, they gave me a receipt when they replaced it. Let's hope they accept that for the iPhone. All I have to usually say is that I bought it online (I have the original box and all the accessories and everything).

    Here's what I'm going to say to the Genius:
    - Requesting a replacement due to unstable signal problems, erratic signal behavior.. Bar goes between 4 and 1 bars erratically in various different combinations (explain combinations). Sometimes will drop me in a middle of a call even when I would have 4 bars initially. If the phone is capable of having 4 bars, I would definitely like to keep those 4 bars thank you..
    - Would really desire and think it's worth for a replacement, NOT a repair!
    - Shows a printout of THIS (LINK COMING SOON) explaining this is a common problem among "AT&T" customers, and even replacement phones can sometimes exhibit this problem too.. This is something stupid that just slipped through factory QA (Quality Assurance). So this is to be sure I get one of the newer 8GB models and not a refurbished older model (which supposedly acts and feels new) with the same hidden problem all over again.
    - Phone has NEVER been dropped or tampered with, this has been a persistent looping problem ever since day 3 of service. And yes, believe it or not, I have fumbled it in my hands from almost dropping it, but I have never dropped it.
    - My callers complain of call quality issues, "heavily distorted" is the exact quote from a friend of mine. And I notice this distortion as well when the signal bars start going up and down now, it's nuts. On 1 bar, the call seems to "descramble" and completely cuts off volume and eventually drops.
    - Tested side by side with another backup phone I have (Nokia). iPhone fails in results dropping down to 2 or 0, while my other phone gets 7/10 bars. iPhone has a the "weak-fluctuating signal problem" commonly heard of on the internet. Both phones have the same plan/service. There is a high chance that the new phones have stronger antennas installed and get rid of this problem.
    - Have tried nearly everything.. Resetting All Settings, Resetting Network Settings, Reinserting SIM, Power Cycling, Restoring (Twice), Reactivating, Updating.. Everything at least I could/should do, but now I've just given up. (Psst, just don't tell them about the hacking stuff ok? ;D)
    - (Since I'm suspecting this phone was bought in Jan 2008 by it's original owner.) If they ask why I kept it so long, I can just tell them that since it was a type of random problem, I was testing it for so long. Some times too lazy to restore and didn't want to erase all my important info, but it was just an eventual progression of testing up until now.. and now I've known I've gone as far as I could and I just submitted to get it fixed.
    - (If it comes up..) AT&T Plan? Sorry Apple, it is now disconnected because of these signal problems OR I've demanded hold service until this is resolved. (I do have the original and previous owner AT&T SIM card for the phone that was probably discontinued earlier this year, yay for eBay, but I probably won't be needing it.)

    Also, in case you guys speculate in what I said above that I bought an Unlocked iPhone off of eBay, I didn't. I bought an original lightly used factory locked iPhone and unlocked it myself when I received it. I thought it would be fun to do it myself.

    Since I will be returning it in a restored and locked state, I doubt they will go through all the trouble just to unlock it and test it all over again. I don't require a loaner because I will be using another phone until they can officially issue me a replacement and transfer the warranty.

    Again, apologies for my humongous threads/posts.. Just a habit.
    Last edited by DarkPraetor; 2008-05-04 at 09:11 AM.
    "Money is only unimportant if you have it."

  5. #5
    so did they replace it? I'm an at&t customer and my 4 gig. is still under warranty . looking to replace it because of a few issues.. screen freezes.. never ending circle of death. I paid 499.99. I do NOT want a refurbished piece of junk. What should I do?

  6. #6
    I brought my phone in to my downtown chicago apple store completely jailbroken and pwned. I even had the pwnage pineapple as th eboot logo. All i did was download poof and hide all my 3rd party desktop icons. Told them i wasnt recieving phone calls and i have tryed rebooting, restoring resetting network settings and they just gave me a new one no questions asked

  7. #7
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    Bad news guys..
    Here's the story, which didn't turn out so well:

    I walked into my Apple store today. I came around a time I thought would be busy, but it was actually pretty clear.. I sat around the genius bar and waited until my name was called.

    I told them the problems with the phone and they asked right away if I had an AT&T contract / SIM in the phone. I said that there WAS but it had been de-activated, but I didn't terminate my contract so I wasn't sure (the 100% truth from what I know about the previous owner, just made it seem that it was recently). From there on, I had by far my most disturbing stay at the Apple Store since they seemed to be so concerned about AT&T service and not their own product. They even had me call AT&T directly to confirm the account information.. I've never heard of a story so far of them going this far.

    For some darn reason he kept having trouble trying to restore it when I would have zero problems at home (retard, lol). One thing that might've saved my a-- is that in their system the line shows as activated, but my phone is not activated or showing service nor activating properly on iTunes.. Eventually they hooked it up, restored it, tried to activate and activation failed (1,2,3). So after going through this stupid process of activating and phailure, he calls an AT&T guy and gives me the phone.. I'm sort of clueless at this point, but play it cool, asking if he would like to talk to the guy and taking it pretty well.

    The AT&T guy was pretty cool, redirecting me right back to Apple.. But saying that my account information is in another system entirely, and the department that handles "my type of account" is closed. I stated that I was at a Genius bar returning a phone for signal problems, the AT&T guy was very cooperative, I just laughed with him and said "yeah, he's right in front of me," and even hearing the AT&T guy saying that Apple should replace the phone and that it was their responsibility since it was under warranty.

    In the end, they insisted that the phone be activated in the store. They said that if they didn't activate it before it left the store, that was "illegal." They refused to honor the warranty, and I found this so ridiculous since my phone was in untampered state! I doubt they even checked it! Even though those were baby steps which I could do at home by myself over the phone and/or over iTunes! When I wanted to see this "policy" in writing, they didn't show me any writing, they just brought some guy in from the back and explain it to me like I was a child.

    What even pisses me off more is that the guy took off the screen protector without me asking, and here I was thinking I was going to get a new phone no-problem. I wouldn't have minded if he did that and I got a replacement.. But he did it before the fact! So the screen protector was just wasted, that's $15 divided by 2; down the drain folks.

    Is this B.S. or what? I've heard people getting their iPhones replaced no questions asked! I told them that this was B.S. and I knew it was because I know for a fact that they've replaced other people's iPhones after simply taking a look at them and going in the back and giving a replacement.. Simple as pie! Even though I told them several times I would be able to activate it at home and it wouldn't be a problem just to give me another phone. Absolutely rediculous! I didn't buy into this one bit.. And what's even stupider is that the people next to me wanted to get their iPhone's replaced as well.

    I checked the replacement and it wasn't a refurbished model, but I never really got it at all, they just put it behind the desk and are "holding" it until I had a "An activated iPhone AT&T plan SIM card installed and activated in the phone."

    I have now been reduced to something so primative.. sticky tape.. to see if I can helplessly and hopefully alieve the signal problems, but I doubt it will do anything at all. Yes, it is something I haven't tried that I am trying now.. The sticky tape method with the SIM. It's in there with a nice snug fit now and I seem to be getting a constant 3 bars, but now recently dropped off and started dropping calls again *sigh*.

    Don't take my word for it, they probably are just hard a--es around here.. Try it yourself, you don't risk anything. You bought an Apple product, not an AT&T product. But keep in mind I came in PREPARED and it did nothing. I had a 6 page report to intimidate them, plus printouts of threads from their own forum describing this problem... I had everything and even explained that I've had this problem for months. This didn't phase them at all from their procedures. I feel like I should keep trying at different times until they finally replace the phone.. But whatever.. >< Ugh. I'm gonna try to call Apple 1800 Support to see if anything changes or to verify this policy, because this looks like the end for me with Apple Support services.

    Worst case scenario is that I have to sell it on eBay and get another brand new one from the store. We'll see..
    Last edited by DarkPraetor; 2008-05-05 at 07:32 AM.
    "Money is only unimportant if you have it."

  8. #8
    Wow---that sounds stressfull....I guess I should have just returned within the 30 day period.....yikes maybe I'll be heading over to ebay myself.

  9. #9
    So basically you got rejected because of your AT&T subscription, not because of a Jailbreak'd iPhone?

    I need to replace an iPhone for my cousin in CA (I got it for him). I'm not on AT&T, but he is. Although the iPhone is unlocked too.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc-o-lishuz View Post
    So basically you got rejected because of your AT&T subscription, not because of a Jailbreak'd iPhone?

    I need to replace an iPhone for my cousin in CA (I got it for him). I'm not on AT&T, but he is. Although the iPhone is unlocked too.
    Yes, entirely because I didn't have an AT&T subscription. Legit AT&T customer or not, they want you to have the AT&T service running.. If you turned in your phone for signal problems while being 100% legit, I would still be disgusted by this tactic. I would've done the same and discontinued my service so I wouldn't get billed. What they're saying is that I need to pay reactivation fee and etc just to make sure I'm gonna keep my service and get the ball rolling on the warranty.. Damn them.

    Yeah. The fact is, I don't see anything in writing saying that I have to have an activated phone, I gave it to them in an unactivated state (entirely stock mind you). I'm starting to believe that either that store has a "made up" policy they just recently thought they'd add, or the guy was lieing just because he didn't want to replace the phone. I'm guessing the former..

    IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING like that on the warranty agreement on Apple's website! I did my frikken research so I don't know why this is so. So why is this store stressing that I have to leave the store with an activated phone or it is "illegal?" This is what I just don't get at all.. People have the right to unlock their phones at home if they want to.. So what gives? Can someone answer me on this curiosity or B.S.? Is it true? I feel like stepping back in there and demanding to see it on a computer screen, or printout from Apple's website.

    It seems to be different for people in certain locations. Sometimes they check, sometimes they don't. I just had bad luck with my store..
    "Money is only unimportant if you have it."

  11. #11
    Interesting... so they denied you a WARRANTY CLAIM because you're not Activated? Well then go to this site on Apple Support and enter your iPhone's serial number and country.

    https://selfsolve.apple.com/GetWarranty.do

    You'll get the following message (I tried with my serial number)... interesting stuff hilighted for you:
    1. Enter your serial number and country
    Serial number and country entered.

    2. Warranty information about your iPhone
    Our records indicate this product has not been activated. Learn how to activate your iPhone. Please note that warranty service is not dependent on activating your iPhone. For more information, please contact us.

    If you believe that this information is inaccurate, learn how to update your coverage status. Please put your sales receipt in a safe place. You will need it for warranty validation.

    Visit the iPhone support page.

    Please note: You will be charged for the costs of any repair unless you can provide valid proof of purchase to update the status of your coverage.
    Seems like folks at the Apple Store don't know their own policy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc-o-lishuz View Post
    Interesting... so they denied you a WARRANTY CLAIM because you're not Activated? Well then go to this site on Apple Support and enter your iPhone's serial number and country.

    https://selfsolve.apple.com/GetWarranty.do

    You'll get the following message (I tried with my serial number)... interesting stuff hilighted for you:


    Seems like folks at the Apple Store don't know their own policy.
    I have been to that page, it says my iPhone Warranty is valid until Dec, 11 2008. Please see below.

    *takes a look in shock* OMFG, that's it, I'm printing that out when I find that!

    This is what mine displays, copy & pasta'd (censored where needed of course):
    Our records indicate that your product is covered under Apple's Limited Warranty which is estimated to expire on December 31, 2008.

    Your product is eligible for complimentary phone support which is estimated to expire on May 02, 2009.

    If you believe that this information is inaccurate, learn how to update your coverage status. Please put your sales receipt in a safe place. You will need it for warranty validation.

    Extend your service and support coverage for your product with the AppleCare Protection Plan. If you have already purchased an AppleCare Protection Plan, make sure you have registered it.

    Visit the iPhone support page.
    It's missing the mention that the phone is "de-activated." I guess that when you activate it once, no matter what you do to the hardware it stays in their system. Regardless, it shouldn't make much difference, should it? Those two sentences just seem to be missing from my page, but a very interesting fact and can probably be found in some other small print.

    By now I'm guessing the phone is activated, but ... deactivated...? Riiiiiiight.

    EDIT: Oooh, now they mailed me an email survey.. This isn't going to go too well for the guy. lol
    Last edited by DarkPraetor; 2008-05-06 at 06:03 AM.
    "Money is only unimportant if you have it."

  13. #13
    I know... it's odd how there's hidden text on that Apple Support page that you can only see if you copy & paste.

    When are you going back to Apple?

  14. #14
    I'm going to try "virginizing" my phone & bringing back for replacement. I'll report back what happens.

    Are there any good step by step directions on how to use the Bootneuter?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by teride View Post
    I'm going to try "virginizing" my phone & bringing back for replacement. I'll report back what happens.

    Are there any good step by step directions on how to use the Bootneuter?
    Any word?

  16. #16
    Not yet...I haven't had time..

  17. #17
    My phone was 1.1.2 OTB and im also looking to revirginize. How do i know what baseband and BL need to be able to return my phone in "warranty returnable state" and how do i go about checking what i have on a non-jailbroken phone. I have only jailbroken my phone, not unlocked. So would ziphone's virginize do me fine?

  18. #18
    i recently got my unlocked phone replaced. here's my story.

    recently, my phone's touchscreen became totally unresponsive. the problem was, i didnt have a plan with the phone because i had unlocked it (with iplus), meaning my phone was never "activated" under their terms with AT&T.

    before i went to the store to try to get it fixed, i restored it to 1.1.4, upgraded the bootloader back to 4.6, and restored it again. I wasn't sure if they would be able to check my phone because of the screen.

    so, the first time i made an appointment with an apple genius, i was denied any service because of my "unactivated" phone (which, after reading this thread, i should have fought for repairs on my phone anyways). at the same time, i was nervous because i had told the genius that i had used the phone before, so i thought he would blacklist my phone from the warranty because i sort of made it obvious i did something to the phone, fortunately, they couldnt really check because of my unresponsive screen. (i found out later, the genius was nice and didn't do anything.)

    so returning home, i just decided to activate the data plan so i could be covered by the warranty. i made an appointment the following week and when they saw that my phone's screen was unresponsive and punching in my S/N to check the activation status, they replaced it with another phone. quick and simple.

    so all in all, i feel as if it was stupid that i signed up for the data plan when i didn't, but i dont regret it now because EDGE can be useful at times. hah!

  19. #19
    my story with replacing my iphone

    So i went to the store because there are air bubbles in my phone. Went the apple store, talked to a genius, and he was very happy to replace my phone. So i thought, wow this is mush easier than i thought. But what do you know, right before he hands the new phone to me, he wants me to activate the phone ON the spot. Obviously, i couldn't cuz i ididn't have the plan. So i went on BSing with him for about half an hour just to make it not obvious that i unlocked my iphone, but now thinkg about it, i think i made it more obvious. so ended up leaving the store with the same phone i went in there with.

  20. #20
    iPhone? More like MyPhone scottvalentine's Avatar
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    i've had 4 phones replaced at the apple store no problem, but the first thing they always do is verify the phone number is activated with att
    There are No stupid questions, Only stupid people

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