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  • Documents from GTAT Case Unsealed, Provide More Insight Into What Really Happened


    Although Apple and GT Advanced Technologies fought to keep key documents related to their sapphire agreement out of the public eye, a judge ruled that the documents didn’t contain trade secrets or confidential information earlier this week, leaving many of the documents to be unsealed. These sealed documents were recently made available for public inspection including an unedited affidavit from GT Advanced COO Daniel Squiller. Squiller submitted a revised affidavit on October 28 which gave some insight into the deal between Apple and GTAT but the unedited version expresses much stronger negative feelins toward the partnership and places more of the blame for GT’s failure on Apple.

    Based on what Squiller said, Apple used what he claimed was a bait-and-switch strategy, offering GTAT “an onerous and massively one-sided deal” in 2013. He went on to claim that Apple initially drew GTAT in with the promise of a huge deal, originally agreeing to purchase sapphire furnaces and let GT operate them. Eventually they ended up demanding a “fundamentally different deal” which required GT to purchase the furnaces themselves. The following was brought up regarding the matter:

    The new structure, as a contract matter, shifted all economic risk to GTAT, because Apple would act as a lender and would have no obligation to purchase any sapphire furnaces, nor did it have any obligation to purchase any sapphire material produced by GTAT.
    GTAT ended up giving into Apple’s new terms because the company had “invested months negotiating a sale contract with Apple while being effectively locked out of pursuing other opportunities with Apple’s competitors.” During the “extensive and all-consuming” negotiations with Apple, GT stopped speaking with other companies about its furnaces because they were lured into Apple’s large offer – a move which ended up with GTAT losing out on other opportunities.

    The Cupertino California company ended up telling GTAT not to bother even trying to negotiate because the company “does not negotiate with its suppliers.” As a result, GTAT was forced to agree to all of Apple’s terms or risk losing the deal. Squiller claims tat when GTAT executives balked at the terms, Apple said to “put on your big boy pants and accept the agreement.”

    Squiller continued by describing how GTAT’s relationship with Apple became “unsustainable” after the Cupertino California company refused to take responsibility for cost overruns and expenses that it caused due to its control over operations. Apple reportedly chose fabrication equipment that “could not economically produce a product that Apple would accept” and then didn’t permit equipment changes that would allow the company to make the product that Apple would accept. Ultimately Squiller accused Apple of going so deep into GTAT’s operations that the company was forced to "divert an inordinate amount of its cash and corporate resources" into the Mesa facility, affecting GT's continued viability as a whole.

    The Cupertino California company requested that Squiller’s affidavit remain sealed as they claimed that his statements were “untrue, irrelevant and defamatory.” Apple continued by stating this Squiller’s declaration:

    … goes far beyond what was reasonably necessary to describe the Debtors' current financial situation and instead includes gratuitous characterizations of Apple's motives, negotiating tactics and business practices.
    Both companies have already reached an agreement to officially end their partnership and nullify the terms of their original deal. Under these terms, GTAT will repay its loans to Apple by selling off its sapphire furnaces. We’ll have to wait and see what surfaces from the situation next.

    Source: KCC LLC via MacRumors
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Documents from GTAT Case Unsealed, Provide More Insight Into What Really Happened started by Akshay Masand View original post
    Comments 23 Comments
    1. Carvensno's Avatar
      Carvensno -
      Quote Originally Posted by Akshay Masand View Post
      GTAT ended up giving into Apple’s new terms because the company had “invested months negotiating a sale contract with Apple while being effectively locked out of pursuing other opportunities with Apple’s competitors.” During the “extensive and all-consuming” negotiations with Apple, GT stopped speaking with other companies about its furnaces because they were lured into Apple’s large offer – a move which ended up with GTAT losing out on other opportunities.
      And this is when they should have cut their losses and do what was good for the company and not taking a risk. Companies need to learn when and when they can't deal with other big companies like Apple. Apple demands quality and quantity!
    1. LeslieBee's Avatar
      LeslieBee -
      Apple is a greedy company. There's no doubt about that. While they do make good quality products, they also charge outrageous prices for them, and do their best to lock out competition.

      My 2011 MacBook Pro allowed me to upgrade my own hard drive and memory. The Apple Mini used to allow customers to do the same. But those days are long gone now.

      I have no problem with companies making profits, but Apple is becoming like every other ridiculously greedy mega-corporation in America.

      There seems no limit to how low they will stoop chasing the almighty dollar.
    1. TDH Advocate's Avatar
      TDH Advocate -
      Quote Originally Posted by LeslieBee View Post
      Apple is a greedy company. There's no doubt about that. While they do make good quality products, they also charge outrageous prices for them, and do their best to lock out competition.

      My 2011 MacBook Pro allowed me to upgrade my own hard drive and memory. The Apple Mini used to allow customers to do the same. But those days are long gone now.

      I have no problem with companies making profits, but Apple is becoming like every other ridiculously greedy mega-corporation in America.

      There seems no limit to how low they will stoop chasing the almighty dollar.
      This is so 100% true it's not even funny. Apple is way to greedy and the deal sounds like Apple were being the biggest d***s possible during the negotiations. Apple needs to stop trying to label their products with such high price tags when we all know they aren't worth what we are paying. But because people keep upgrading all their products every year Apple will never stop doing it. The MacBook Pro are definitely not worth more than 700 without the retina and not more than 750 with it. Their prices are asinine and no one wants to try and stop them because we all know Apple is the only company with reliable and user friendly devices available.
    1. kyphur's Avatar
      kyphur -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brad.carmichael View Post
      Does anyone know if there is away to jailbreak your iPhone using a tablet
      Yes, use a Microsoft Surface Pro or any other Windows tablet that isn't RT...
    1. Silverado1987's Avatar
      Silverado1987 -
      Every company seeks nothing but money. It's the way of the business.
    1. exNavy's Avatar
      exNavy -
      Quote Originally Posted by LeslieBee View Post
      Apple is a greedy company. ...
      There seems no limit to how low they will stoop chasing the almighty dollar.
      They do what every company does: make profits for the share holders. It's their reason for being. I don't fault a company for this. I don't like how companies treat their employees, and I don't like that companies lobby the government for perks and then feel they need a public face and stick their nose in civil matters. But that's life.
    1. lilpetabread's Avatar
      lilpetabread -
      Quote Originally Posted by Silverado1987 View Post
      Every company seeks nothing but money. It's the way of the business.
      Yea, you're right. However, there's a difference between turning a profit and bending your customers over. Especially at the point where Apple is financially, they should be lowering their prices to something more reasonable, even if it's only slightly. You know, they've only stated many times that they have more money than they know what to do with. They're missing out on potential sales. If their prices were more reasonable, I just might upgrade my phone every year instead of every 2 years. And so would a lot of people.

      Hell, it might even be a nice marketing stunt with a market as saturated as it is with smartphones now. "Hey guys, we're here for the consumers, so we've made our products more affordable because we care about you." Something along those lines, even though it would obviously be total BS.

      I love my iPhone, but it kills me every time a tear down is done and we see just how bad we're being screwed on the price we pay. Even more so when we see they're only paying less than $7 to have a 6+ assembled in China. It also kills me when I see the price I paid for my 6+ is more than the new Vizio 4K Smart TV. It's crazy, for the price I paid for two 6+, I could've bought the Vizio 4K TV, Xbone, PS4 and the Vizio 5.1 surround sound bar and a game or 2. Crazy.
    1. DALFE5's Avatar
      DALFE5 -
      [QUOTE=LeslieBee;7167560]Apple is a greedy company. There's no doubt about that. While they do make good quality products, they also charge outrageous prices for them, and do their best to lock out competition.

      My 2011 MacBook Pro allowed me to upgrade my own hard drive and memory. The Apple Mini used to allow customers to do the same. But those days are long gone now.

      I have no problem with companies making profits, but Apple is becoming like every other ridiculously greedy mega-corporation in America.

      There seems no limit to how low they will stoop chasing the almighty dollar.[/QUO


      Greedy? Really? Maybe that's because they are a "for profit" company. Every company chases the almighty dollar. So does everybody else that works for a living. Has Always been that way and always will. At the end of the month when all your bills are paid send me half. Don't be greedy, I could definitely use it. GT chose to sign the contract with apple. They signed their own fate. They should have cut their loss and moved on long ago. I believe Apple's quality is better than most any other competitor's products. Quality does cost more. Apple's prices aren't out of line. This year I switched to Samsung Note 3 and Note 10.1 2014 Edition (still have iPhone and iPad) and both cost more than my iPhone 5s and iPad. As Apple has stated before they don't like consumers modifying things because of security, compatibility and stability issues and failures. I've jailbroken every iPhone and iPad I've had and built every computer I've had. I know problems usually start when the mods begin. . Same with the computers. Start changing components and software that's when problems increase. Not saying their products are problem free but way better than any pc or jailbroken iPhone/iPad or android phone/tablet. Just my opinion.
    1. sirbebe's Avatar
      sirbebe -
      Sounds like a Walmart tactic to me. Demand a company to fulfill an enormous order of one product knowing it will have to stop supplying other vender, thinking of the revenue (vendor) they bite but come the next quarter they demand (Walmart) a lower price or threaten to walk away leaving the company with over head and no clients to eat up the expense and eventually go bankrupt and throw employes to the streets it's sad but true in either case the employees are the one that suffer..
    1. a2943149's Avatar
      a2943149 -
      apple are a rude company and this proves it. They want everything for free. They will suck other companies till they crumble and die like this one.
      thats why I left apple and went to Samsung. I think its a better device and I just hate the way apple do business so I wont give them any money, I will happily now give it to their competition.
      Waiting for the iPad to die then I will be completely free from them.
    1. SpottedBilagaana's Avatar
      SpottedBilagaana -
      Quote Originally Posted by sirbebe View Post
      Sounds like a Walmart tactic to me. Demand a company to fulfill an enormous order of one product knowing it will have to stop supplying other vender, thinking of the revenue (vendor) they bite but come the next quarter they demand (Walmart) a lower price or threaten to walk away leaving the company with over head and no clients to eat up the expense and eventually go bankrupt and throw employes to the streets it's sad but true in either case the employees are the one that suffer..
      Haven't you heard? That's the American way. Scrooge was a saint compared to corporations today.
    1. Rcworship's Avatar
      Rcworship -
      All this is so funny! Business is about profit. Done. Public companies, as already stated, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders-to maximize profit. The shareholder are the boss/owners of the companies. If the board understands and decides top profit margins are the driving force, then that's how it will go. I hear all this rhetoric about greed and laugh. Greed? At what margin does acceptable profit turn into greed? Is there a dollar amount? Does anyone look for a job and shoot for a mean salary, or do we all look for the best total compensation package? Well, maybe I'm greedy, but I'm aiming higher. Now I do agree that businesses should stay out of the political arena in terms of campaigning and lobbying. I also think they need to stay out of the social engineering realm and let people decide what is best for themselves.

      Those claiming the products are overpriced simply don't understand supply and demand. The demand for Apple products, and the subsequent success of Apple, is all the evidence needed to prove that these products ARE worth the price. The customers tend to set the price point contingent upon the actual sales at a given price; if the products don't sale, the price comes down. So, if anyone doesn't feel something is worth the asking price, the only way to try and change it is to vote with your dollar. Apple provide a unique level of quality such that people will flock to stores and wait for hours in line to get the latest release. It's worth it. I've jumped ship from Windows (except a bootcamp partition that enabled me to jailbreak my iPhone 6!!!!) and didn't care for android. Although I can't afford new Apple products and buy used/broken then repair/upgrade, I still feel they are worth the price.
    1. LeslieBee's Avatar
      LeslieBee -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rcworship View Post
      All this is so funny! Business is about profit. Done. Public companies, as already stated, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders-to maximize profit. The shareholder are the boss/owners of the companies. If the board understands and decides top profit margins are the driving force, then that's how it will go. I hear all this rhetoric about greed and laugh. Greed? At what margin does acceptable profit turn into greed? Is there a dollar amount? Does anyone look for a job and shoot for a mean salary, or do we all look for the best total compensation package? Well, maybe I'm greedy, but I'm aiming higher. Now I do agree that businesses should stay out of the political arena in terms of campaigning and lobbying. I also think they need to stay out of the social engineering realm and let people decide what is best for themselves.

      Those claiming the products are overpriced simply don't understand supply and demand. The demand for Apple products, and the subsequent success of Apple, is all the evidence needed to prove that these products ARE worth the price. The customers tend to set the price point contingent upon the actual sales at a given price; if the products don't sale, the price comes down. So, if anyone doesn't feel something is worth the asking price, the only way to try and change it is to vote with your dollar. Apple provide a unique level of quality such that people will flock to stores and wait for hours in line to get the latest release. It's worth it. I've jumped ship from Windows (except a bootcamp partition that enabled me to jailbreak my iPhone 6!!!!) and didn't care for android. Although I can't afford new Apple products and buy used/broken then repair/upgrade, I still feel they are worth the price.
      What's even funnier is that nobody gives a crap about your long winded rant, which seems to be a problem with so many conservatives. Take Rush Limbaugh or Fox "News" as examples. It's nothing but "BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!"
    1. lilpetabread's Avatar
      lilpetabread -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rcworship View Post
      All this is so funny! Business is about profit. Done. Public companies, as already stated, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders-to maximize profit. The shareholder are the boss/owners of the companies. If the board understands and decides top profit margins are the driving force, then that's how it will go. I hear all this rhetoric about greed and laugh. Greed? At what margin does acceptable profit turn into greed? Is there a dollar amount? Does anyone look for a job and shoot for a mean salary, or do we all look for the best total compensation package? Well, maybe I'm greedy, but I'm aiming higher. Now I do agree that businesses should stay out of the political arena in terms of campaigning and lobbying. I also think they need to stay out of the social engineering realm and let people decide what is best for themselves.

      Those claiming the products are overpriced simply don't understand supply and demand. The demand for Apple products, and the subsequent success of Apple, is all the evidence needed to prove that these products ARE worth the price. The customers tend to set the price point contingent upon the actual sales at a given price; if the products don't sale, the price comes down. So, if anyone doesn't feel something is worth the asking price, the only way to try and change it is to vote with your dollar. Apple provide a unique level of quality such that people will flock to stores and wait for hours in line to get the latest release. It's worth it. I've jumped ship from Windows (except a bootcamp partition that enabled me to jailbreak my iPhone 6!!!!) and didn't care for android. Although I can't afford new Apple products and buy used/broken then repair/upgrade, I still feel they are worth the price.
      I hear you and agree with some of what you're saying. But some of that is totally subjective. When you take a $2000 MacBook that has less than/comparable specs that a $500 HP PC has, that's Apple's way of saying "you're a sucker, you'll buy anything with an Apple logo on it and we know it." Is it a great laptop? Yes! Not $1500 greater though, not a chance. There gets to be a point where a company is straight laughing at you for being so stupid (in which I must be as well, because I love their products, own 580 shares of their stock and defend the brand all the time unless it comes down to their prices - I cannot justify them charging $1050 for something that cost them ~$200 and I won't try.)

      Apple sets their price point on iPhones so high because at one point they were the only names in the game. And they could charge $700 for a phone. That is no longer the case. There is more than enough competition out there, and they ARE feeling it. They sold what, 10 million iPhone 6/6+ in a weekend? That's great. Imagine what the sales would've been if they were more reasonably priced. Imagine the sales if they were only tripling their profit instead of quadrupling it.

      It's greedy. And if it didn't feel like I was being wrecked from the back SO bad, I'd own a MacBook and I'd own a new iPhone every year. But I don't feel it's worth it. I don't think it's worth spending another $1050 on an iPhone 6+S that will have a 0.000001 speed bump in the processor and a front facing camera jump from 1.2 to 1.23 megapixels.

      Face it, Apple isn't crazy innovative anymore, man. As much as I love them, that's just the truth. I'll never jump ship to any other brand - and that's exactly why Apple continues to bend us all over. Because they know we'll get all mad, but we'll keep buying it. But if they don't start making it worth the prices, us loyal iSheep (or whatever it is they call us) won't be guaranteed sales anymore.

      Take a look at Microsoft and the Xbone. They once were running the game. They got cocky and decided to give you less and charge you more and they're still paying the price for it every month that the sales figures come out. Personally I like my Apple stock rising, so I don't wish harm on them, but my point is this: go ahead and screw me....but I'm on to what you're doing back there.
    1. SpiderManAPV's Avatar
      SpiderManAPV -
      Very interesting thought process there. Probably the most reasoned out I've heard so far.
    1. Rcworship's Avatar
      Rcworship -
      Quote Originally Posted by lilpetabread View Post
      I hear you and agree with some of what you're saying. But some of that is totally subjective. When you take a $2000 MacBook that has less than/comparable specs that a $500 HP PC has, that's Apple's way of saying "you're a sucker, you'll buy anything with an Apple logo on it and we know it." Is it a great laptop? Yes! Not $1500 greater though, not a chance. There gets to be a point where a company is straight laughing at you for being so stupid (in which I must be as well, because I love their products, own 580 shares of their stock and defend the brand all the time unless it comes down to their prices - I cannot justify them charging $1050 for something that cost them ~$200 and I won't try.)

      Apple sets their price point on iPhones so high because at one point they were the only names in the game. And they could charge $700 for a phone. That is no longer the case. There is more than enough competition out there, and they ARE feeling it. They sold what, 10 million iPhone 6/6+ in a weekend? That's great. Imagine what the sales would've been if they were more reasonably priced. Imagine the sales if they were only tripling their profit instead of quadrupling it.

      It's greedy. And if it didn't feel like I was being wrecked from the back SO bad, I'd own a MacBook and I'd own a new iPhone every year. But I don't feel it's worth it. I don't think it's worth spending another $1050 on an iPhone 6+S that will have a 0.000001 speed bump in the processor and a front facing camera jump from 1.2 to 1.23 megapixels.

      Face it, Apple isn't crazy innovative anymore, man. As much as I love them, that's just the truth. I'll never jump ship to any other brand - and that's exactly why Apple continues to bend us all over. Because they know we'll get all mad, but we'll keep buying it. But if they don't start making it worth the prices, us loyal iSheep (or whatever it is they call us) won't be guaranteed sales anymore.

      Take a look at Microsoft and the Xbone. They once were running the game. They got cocky and decided to give you less and charge you more and they're still paying the price for it every month that the sales figures come out. Personally I like my Apple stock rising, so I don't wish harm on them, but my point is this: go ahead and screw me....but I'm on to what you're doing back there.
      First, the $2000 MacBook does not at all compare to a $500 HP laptop. Now you can get a MacBook Pro on the lower end or Air for around $1000, and they are still much better than any $500 HP laptop. If you look for the nicer ultra books, however, you're not going to find any in the $500 range. Soooo...comparing apples to apples (sorry, couldn't help myself!), the price disparity reduces significantly.

      As for the phones, the build quality and OS experience is what people flock to. But I would say the same for Macs. At any rate, it all boils down to perceived value and customer choice. We all have the option to purchase one or another. Greed or not, Corporate responsibility is to the shareholders, like you, who invest their money for maximum return.
    1. a2943149's Avatar
      a2943149 -
      Quote Originally Posted by lilpetabread View Post
      I hear you and agree with some of what you're saying. But some of that is totally subjective. When you take a $2000 MacBook that has less than/comparable specs that a $500 HP PC has, that's Apple's way of saying "you're a sucker, you'll buy anything with an Apple logo on it and we know it." Is it a great laptop? Yes! Not $1500 greater though, not a chance. There gets to be a point where a company is straight laughing at you for being so stupid (in which I must be as well, because I love their products, own 580 shares of their stock and defend the brand all the time unless it comes down to their prices - I cannot justify them charging $1050 for something that cost them ~$200 and I won't try.)

      Apple sets their price point on iPhones so high because at one point they were the only names in the game. And they could charge $700 for a phone. That is no longer the case. There is more than enough competition out there, and they ARE feeling it. They sold what, 10 million iPhone 6/6+ in a weekend? That's great. Imagine what the sales would've been if they were more reasonably priced. Imagine the sales if they were only tripling their profit instead of quadrupling it.

      It's greedy. And if it didn't feel like I was being wrecked from the back SO bad, I'd own a MacBook and I'd own a new iPhone every year. But I don't feel it's worth it. I don't think it's worth spending another $1050 on an iPhone 6+S that will have a 0.000001 speed bump in the processor and a front facing camera jump from 1.2 to 1.23 megapixels.

      Face it, Apple isn't crazy innovative anymore, man. As much as I love them, that's just the truth. I'll never jump ship to any other brand - and that's exactly why Apple continues to bend us all over. Because they know we'll get all mad, but we'll keep buying it. But if they don't start making it worth the prices, us loyal iSheep (or whatever it is they call us) won't be guaranteed sales anymore.

      Take a look at Microsoft and the Xbone. They once were running the game. They got cocky and decided to give you less and charge you more and they're still paying the price for it every month that the sales figures come out. Personally I like my Apple stock rising, so I don't wish harm on them, but my point is this: go ahead and screw me....but I'm on to what you're doing back there.
      Nicely said. I agree, there are just too many isuckers with too much money. The problem I see and why I left Apple is I hate the way they do business and dont want to encourage it so not giving them anymore money. AND their "latest" device is years old compared to the competition. The iphone 6 is equal to a Galaxy S3. I dont think its as good as an S4 so its at least 3 years behind. Their new feature is many years old. I think the Galaxy S2 had NFC or was it the Galaxy S1? Anyway its old. I went to a Galaxy S4 and used NFC payments for years and now on a Galaxy S5 and still happily using NFC payments. Its so much quicker than the applepay version. No need to hold my finger on a button and wait for it to be processed, the way I have it its as fast as using the actual credit card. I dont have to open any apps, press anything just tap and go. I'm already out the store before you've even finished processing the payment. I guess you'll have to wait at least 2 more years before its as fast as that and thats IF they want to make it that quick but its Apple so I doubt it.

      Go have a look at the phones and features. The Galaxy has so many more and they are priced cheaper. Have you seen the drop tests? Just because they are priced cheaper doesn't mean they are cheaper. The drop tests I've seen have the Galaxy S5 working fine where the iPhone 6 is in pieces unuseable and BENT. I will happily take the better phone at a cheaper price anyday. And why? Because I dont have the money to waste and I'm not a isucker anymore.

      And about laptops. The apple laptops are always at least $1000 overpriced compared to a PC version. The $500 PC is equal to a $1500 Mac and thats being generous. I have a $700 ultrabook which is a lot better than the Mac version. I think its equal to a $2000 Macbook but mine doesn't come in a Macbook version as its touchscreen and does a lot more than a Macbook can. OH, I can also install MacOS on it and any other OS I want. I currently have it dual booting Windows 8.1 and Android. Cant do that with a Macbook. IF you can you cant do it was easy as on a PC Laptop.
    1. SpiderManAPV's Avatar
      SpiderManAPV -
      Quote Originally Posted by a2943149 View Post
      OH, I can also install MacOS on it and any other OS I want. I currently have it dual booting Windows 8.1 and Android. Cant do that with a Macbook. IF you can you cant do it was easy as on a PC Laptop.
      I semi-agreed with parts of what you said, but you obviously don't know OSX very well. Apple actually provides a method to dual-boot. It's one of the main draws for many people.
    1. lilpetabread's Avatar
      lilpetabread -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rcworship View Post
      First, the $2000 MacBook does not at all compare to a $500 HP laptop. Now you can get a MacBook Pro on the lower end or Air for around $1000, and they are still much better than any $500 HP laptop. If you look for the nicer ultra books, however, you're not going to find any in the $500 range. Soooo...comparing apples to apples (sorry, couldn't help myself!), the price disparity reduces significantly.

      As for the phones, the build quality and OS experience is what people flock to. But I would say the same for Macs. At any rate, it all boils down to perceived value and customer choice. We all have the option to purchase one or another. Greed or not, Corporate responsibility is to the shareholders, like you, who invest their money for maximum return.
      You say what you want, but my $500 HP laptop eats up my girlfriend's MacBook as far as raw specs and both were purchased around the same time. It might not eat hers up by a ton, but for ~$1000 less and I get a biometrics reader too? I don't think you know what kind of computer you can get for $2000, but you can get yourself a pretty damn sexy gaming rig for that kind of money. I'm not saying that Apple's MacBooks are junk. They're just overpriced, like everything else that comes from them (some of which I buy lol). Truth be told, because of the tablet and phone market booming, PC prices have come down some. Unless it's an Apple laptop, and Apple's prices have always been up there, so this shouldn't be a shocker.

      I'm speaking as an apple fan, but a realist first. Not as a shareholder. As an Apple consumer, I want some self realization from the company: you are not the only kid on the block anymore. The Nexus 6 is one sexy device that, with a stock android os will eat up iOS. And it's (from the bit I've read) ~$600ish.

      By apple giving me the same 1GB of ram, the same cameras as my old iPhone 5, a small speed bump in processor (as far as what I notice to the eye) and screen jump that's how many years behind? - I can't help but feel, as a consumer, that Apple is saying to me: "you are an idiot for buying this insanely overpriced device. You probably won't get it on day one, even though we have enough money to have these phones manufactured anywhere we want that works best for our customers, but we want it done as cheaply as possible instead of efficiently across the board. You'll buy anything we sell. And IDGAF what you want or what 'they're' doing, we'll give you what WE want, when we feel like it." - and that is NOT the attitude of a company that loves their customers.

      Now, as a shareholder, here's what's important to ME: Your customers are the ones who created you and supported you. You take care of them. If you piss off your customers, they leave. It's harder for them to leave when you are their only option. However, you are no longer their only option, and as far as whats on paper, you are not their best option as far as raw spec value. So be mindful of that. You are a genius who can tell people "you need this and this is a great value" and people (like me too) believe it without thinking about it, ie the Apple Watch, which works best with the iPhone 6, yet ultimately does the same thing the iPhone 6s do, sans the ability to send my male friends my heartbeat (and didn't the first iPhone pretty much kill the reason to need a watch that wasn't specifically for fashion or the older generations?)

      I understand that "value" is up to each individual to define. Hell, I love protein. A LOT. But if a company is selling eggs at $60/egg - you better be a damn good company to be able to convince me that I love protein enough to spend that kind of money on an egg (and Apple could do it! lol. They almost convinced me that I needed a watch again after 7 years that does less than the phone I just spend $1050 on!)

      FYI, none of this is me saying you're wrong. It's your opinion just as this is mine. Apple has its hands on my wallet, I'm an iSheep or whatever. But I'm not a stupid one and my eyes are open from both the consumer and shareholder standpoint as a realist. What they do as a company shouldn't be too difficult for anyone to see, that's why all these places do these teardowns/reviews etc, so you can see what's going on. But if you don't see what's going on, that's because they are great at what they do and could sell you a $1399 iBlanket that keeps you warm.
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by lilpetabread View Post
      Yea, you're right. However, there's a difference between turning a profit and bending your customers over. Especially at the point where Apple is financially, they should be lowering their prices to something more reasonable, even if it's only slightly. You know, they've only stated many times that they have more money than they know what to do with. They're missing out on potential sales. If their prices were more reasonable, I just might upgrade my phone every year instead of every 2 years. And so would a lot of people.

      Hell, it might even be a nice marketing stunt with a market as saturated as it is with smartphones now. "Hey guys, we're here for the consumers, so we've made our products more affordable because we care about you." Something along those lines, even though it would obviously be total BS.

      I love my iPhone, but it kills me every time a tear down is done and we see just how bad we're being screwed on the price we pay. Even more so when we see they're only paying less than $7 to have a 6+ assembled in China. It also kills me when I see the price I paid for my 6+ is more than the new Vizio 4K Smart TV. It's crazy, for the price I paid for two 6+, I could've bought the Vizio 4K TV, Xbone, PS4 and the Vizio 5.1 surround sound bar and a game or 2. Crazy.
      But you did buy an iPhone 6+ despite the price, that's the main reason why Apple doesn't lower their prices. They see that consumers are willing to spend all this money for their products year after year (and they break record sells every year). So why would they want to start charging less? A lot of it is the consumer, if people stopped buying iPhone's because of the price I'm sure Apple would start selling them cheaper (though it would have to be a big number). But as of right now, people are willing to spend whatever Apple charges so they have no reason to stop.

      As for the GTAT incident, yeah it sucks that it happened like it did, but that's how business is done. GTAT should have been smart enough to pull out after things starting getting iffy. I'm sure they trusted Apple and thought everything would end up well, but it didn't turn out that way, so now they're in this position.