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Thread: Blu-Ray Not Expected to Come to Apple Products According to Schiller

  1. #41
    My iPhone is a Part of Me luvmytj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NakedFaerie View Post
    Anyone really surprised with this? Apple never do anything thats the normal. They always do things the hard way or the not normal way so just the plain stupid WTF way but never the normal way. Blah, blah, blah...
    It's called progress. If they did thing the "normal" way you would still be using DOS.

    Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
    That isn't really a valid comparison, though. Floppy disks have long ago become way too impractical with a storage size of just 1.44~ MB. Even with compression schemes, you're still looking at 2.88~ megs, which isn't even enough space to store a single good quality mp3 or m4a song. Where as DVD and Blu-ray discs still serve a purpose today. Many people still have sizable collections of albums, films, photos, and even computer-backups on such discs. Optical discs are not obsolete in the same way the floppies had become.
    By that logic I should be listening to my music on 8-tracks or cassettes. They still work fine.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytj View Post
    By that logic I should be listening to my music on 8-tracks or cassettes. They still work fine.
    Um, what? 8-track tapes aren't in circulation, they are used, you cannot even find a player (or actual tapes) outside flea markets, yard sales, and exchange web-sites and maybe thrift stores. Optical discs, on the other hand, are still in circulation, still used by a sizable population for various usages; CDs are still sold for audio, DVDs and Blu-rays for video, some stores still offer photo-discs, etc. You can't compare a long dead medium and one that is still in use.

  3. #43
    My iPhone is a Part of Me luvmytj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
    Um, what? 8-track tapes aren't in circulation, they are used, you cannot even find a player (or actual tapes) outside flea markets, yard sales, and exchange web-sites and maybe thrift stores. Optical discs, on the other hand, are still in circulation, still used by a sizable population for various usages; CDs are still sold for audio, DVDs and Blu-rays for video, some stores still offer photo-discs, etc. You can't compare a long dead medium and one that is still in use.
    As I said, with your logic we would of never moved on to optical disc because people like you said magnetic tape was just fine, why go optical?
    The disc is on a slow road to death.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytj View Post
    As I said, with your logic we would of never moved on to optical disc because people like you said magnetic tape was just fine, why go optical?
    The disc is on a slow road to death.
    This just simply isn't true, as it is your parsing of logic that appears to be flawed here. I never said that magnetic tape was just fine. I remember using it back in the 80's and 90's, but like the floppy, it's day has come and gone, it is not longer a practical medium. Optical discs are not yet completely impractical in the same way. I and many others may prefer to use audio and video files over their optical counter parts, and yes that is a future that is largely already here, but unlike cassettes and floppy disks of the past, many people can still find a practical usage for optical discs for various situations. The same can't be said about 8-track tapes and floppy disks.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverado1987 View Post
    Instead I turn on my Apple TV and rent it for $4.99
    Wait a second, it costs $4.99 to rent one movie? I ask is because when I was still renting movies from local Blockbuster or Hollywood Video stores, I could rent a DVD for about a week for about 3 dollars. Why is it that renting a movie online cost so much more, when you don't have the costs associated with a physical store, which has to pay for and stock several copies of physical media for each film. I know there are licensing costs, but still, this should be far less than what it costs to maintain a physical video store. What am I missing here?

  6. #46
    There is Mac Bluray Player and there are numerous drives on the market that work with Macs, it's jut not built in to the OS, there are some drives that even ship with the Mac software.

    Officially Windows has no built-in bluray support either (i.e. you need drivers, software, etc. that usually come with the drive), so I am failing to see the problem here.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytj View Post
    As I said, with your logic we would of never moved on to optical disc because people like you said magnetic tape was just fine, why go optical?
    The disc is on a slow road to death.
    Your right. The disc is on a slow road to death. Keyword being "slow". DVD's and even CD's are still very much relevant today. The problem is that many people on this site are way too tech to think about life through a non-tech person eyes. But that's OK, your not a business. Businesses should think about these things as with all things change is gradual. Forget being "the trendsetter", no optical drive is just plain inconvenient for a large portion of consumers. If your friend lends you a film on DVD and then you realise you can't play it because there's no disc port, its a problem.

    Just seems like a dumb move by Apple to make this decision now. I'd say it'd make sense to wait a bit longer until the climate had changed to a more pro-everything stream consumer base.

    It's TOO SOON. And I'm sure sales/feedback will reflect this.

    Either way Apple's cult-like following will ensure people go out and but the next product. You know, because..."Think Different."

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by znbl View Post
    Wait a second, it costs $4.99 to rent one movie? I ask is because when I was still renting movies from local Blockbuster or Hollywood Video stores, I could rent a DVD for about a week for about 3 dollars. Why is it that renting a movie online cost so much more, when you don't have the costs associated with a physical store, which has to pay for and stock several copies of physical media for each film. I know there are licensing costs, but still, this should be far less than what it costs to maintain a physical video store. What am I missing here?
    Well if driving to the store and renting it for a week for $3 was a sustainable business plan, where are all of the video stores? I would rather pay $5 and not have to drive to the store twice or worry about fees.

    You don't alway calculate the price of a good by considering the cost to produce + a small markup.

    And for anyone saying removing the drive is too soon, Apple always makes the first move and the market follows. I've been happily without physical media for about two years, and I don't miss it. I'm really looking forward to everyone else moving up. This is just like the first iPhone having no removable memory. People couldn't fathom how to do without it, and now better solutions have developed and nobody seems to mind. If you want to keep discs around, you don't understand that there are better solutions for the problem they solve. It's not just about moving forward, it's forcing the change. They still sell an external if you need it; don't make my laptop thicker and heavier just because you are comfortable with the way things are.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by z6joker9 View Post
    Well if driving to the store and renting it for a week for $3 was a sustainable business plan, where are all of the video stores?
    IT was sustainable until the likes of Netflix and over-the-'net streaming came in and sapped their customer base. It seems some people's memories are way too short. Video stores had carried DVDs for over a decade before they really started to collapse, and carried video tapes much earlier than that.


    You don't alway calculate the price of a good by considering the cost to produce + a small markup.

    And for anyone saying removing the drive is too soon, Apple always makes the first move and the market follows.
    I'm sorry, but this has not always been the case. Apple being any sort of trend-setter was never really the case at all until the iPhone came out. The iPod was well known, but it was still seen as an MP3 player. It never made Apple as high profile and gave Apple such brand penetration and recognition as the iPhone had.

    I've been happily without physical media for about two years, and I don't miss it.
    So because you are ok without it means that everyone should be? I'm not a sheep. I'm not going to just do something soley because someone else is doing it. I like having movies and songs in an easy to transport file format, but that doesn't mean that I need to lower myself to lemming status and follow the lead of someone like yourself and just toss out every bit of usable physical media I have.

    I have a set-top player that can accept, DVDs, CD's, Blu-rays, as well burned data discs containing files, as well as having a USB port, allowing me to plug in a USB drive loaded with videos, photos, songs et al. It can also browse YouTube and even has streaming options when connected to a network, all in a neat little package. There is a reason media players like this exist, which one can get at any electronics store and have become quite common. Point being, you can have the future without being forced to just chuck present and past.

    I'm really looking forward to everyone else moving up. This is just like the first iPhone having no removable memory. People couldn't fathom how to do without it, and now better solutions have developed and nobody seems to mind.
    What is it with you and thinking you speak for everyone? Removable media is considered to be a good thing, and for that matter, there IS an SD card reader that was made for iPads (that plugs into the 30-pin port) which can technically work with the iPhone (I've seen this first hand), and yes, it was even made by Apple, so obvious there was a demand for such a thing, else, why would they have gone through the trouble of making it at all?

    If you want to keep discs around, you don't understand that there are better solutions for the problem they solve. It's not just about moving forward, it's forcing the change.
    Oh, so now we should just FORCE everyone to change, because someone like your self wants to ditch optical media all together? Do you even realize how far behind the general non-tech populous is? Are you just blind to the fact of how many people still use DVDs. I'm nto even talking about Blu-ray here, just DVD. DVD is still a pretty solid format that is still selling. You need to stop looking at this picture solely from the point of view of a technical person and also consider the general average joe who would be lucky to be able to program a VCR or DVR by themselves.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by znbl View Post
    IL
    Oh, so now we should just FORCE everyone to change, because someone like your self wants to ditch optical media all together? Do you even realize how far behind the general non-tech populous is? Are you just blind to the fact of how many people still use DVDs. I'm nto even talking about Blu-ray here, just DVD. DVD is still a pretty solid format that is still selling. You need to stop looking at this picture solely from the point of view of a technical person and also consider the general average joe who would be lucky to be able to program a VCR or DVR by themselves.
    You're right on a lot of your points here. Optical media has at least another five strong years ahead for it being in common mainstream use. But your rationale there at the end, referring to those people who still don't know how to program their DVR's, is not a mentality that will stop optical drives from finally becoming obsolete. The main reason it won't is that the newer technologies that are coming out are "easier" to use from the users perspective. I handed my 86-year-old mother-in-law my iPad 3 the other day and showed her how to navigate around it for her favorite news sources. She's about as "non--technical" as they come. And she mastered the iPad in 10 minutes. How? Point-and-click is easy. Easier than typing in a search engine and easier than learning how to turn on your cable-television and navigating to the channel.

    By the same token, streaming a movie is way easier than learning how to put a DVD in and turning it on and then getting your TV set to be able to see the DVD player. So it's not just a matter of newer technologies being better technically than older technologies. It's just simply about user ease. The immediate accessibility of the cloud via streaming will, itself, alone, replace optical drive technology.

    And we do have the speeds we need over Internet now. Three years ago we couldn't say that. But my simple cable plan with Comcast gives me 50 meg downstream and a 25 meg upstream. I buy a movie from iTunes and I can start watching it in 30 seconds while the rest of it downloads in the background. Way easier and way simpler to the user than even picking up a DVD and slipping it into the drive.

    So in the final analysis, it's ease-of-use to the end user that will drive optical media into obscurity within the next five years and be replaced with streaming technologies. Apples making the right moves by not including optical drives in future products. They're, as usual, seeing with vision to the near future.

    So the only area we disagree is that it will not be techie people that force optical media into obscurity, it will be the average user that can barely program their DVR. :-)..
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 11-03-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    You're right on a lot of your points here. Optical media has at least another five strong years ahead for it being in common mainstream use. But your rationale there at the end, referring to those people who still don't know how to program their DVR's, is not a mentality that will stop optical drives from finally becoming obsolete.
    You might be surprised how hopeless some people can be when it comes to anything with circuits and buttons. I'ved worked in the IT and technical support area for over a decade, and I can tell you first hand how bad it can be. I've delt with people who still can't figure out an iPad, despite how simplified it is, to say nothing about using a keyboard and mouse. I've dealt with people who press buttons on their printer when asked to reset their computer. I believe one reason that DVD's have been so successful even among some of the most tech-deficient denizens, is that it isn't any more difficult to insert a disc and press play then it is to insert a video tape into a VCR and do the same, as well as playing an audio CD. Streaming video, and playing video files from a USB device, etc, while it's gotten more and more easier, and second nature for geek kind, seems to still be difficult for a lot of non-tech to grasp. From my experiences over the last couple years, I find people just tend to get lost, when all they want to do is watch a movie.


    'The main reason it won't is that the newer technologies that are coming out are "easier" to use from the users perspective. I handed my 86-year-old mother-in-law my iPad 3 the other day and showed her how to navigate around it for her favorite news sources. She's about as "non--technical" as they come. And she mastered the iPad in 10 minutes. How? Point-and-click is easy. Easier than typing in a search engine and easier than learning how to turn on your cable-television and navigating to the channel.
    I applaud your grand mother. I really do. I only wish half non-tech people I routinely deal with were at least half as capable as she is. As I've said above, there are people who wouldn't be able to make head or tails out it, who need to go through endless explaining before they finally start to pick it up. Yes, the iPad is much easier to pickup then other sorts of systems, no doubt, but you still can't ignore people whose mind just doesn't allow them to parse anything much more complex then "press play."

    By the same token, streaming a movie is way easier than learning how to put a DVD in and turning it on and then getting your TV set to be able to see the DVD player
    I really have to humbly disagree, at least with a lot of the Streaming systems out there, be they gaming consoles, blu-ray media player set top boxes, etc. In most cases you still have to navigate around, find the right place, setup the networking, enter account information for what ever steaming service (Netflix, Hulu, etc), and such before even getting to the content. How exactly is this easier then just popping in a disc? Again, you seem to think all non-tech people can just figure out these systems on their own or be easily talked through it. Until you've worked the tech-support front lines as much as and as long as someone like myself, then I really believe you have no idea how downright simple some people can be.

    I have high hopes for the future as well, don't get me wrong. I love being able to load a USB drive with files and play them directly instead of having to worry about a disc being scratched or so. I love being able to have an entire season or two, or even an entire series, without having to swap discs out when the episodes I want to watch are far apart. I also like the idea of streaming. I just don't like the idea of forcing everyone to move on when it's clear some people are far from ready. Choice and options is a great thing. I like the player I have because it does just that; DVD, Bu-ray, play media files, watch You-Tube, Netflix, Hulu, and many others. It's just one good example of getting it just about right.

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