$1 Billion in Damages May Just Be The Start of Samsung's Penalty

[rlirph]

As a US expat working in China for five years I have seen local manufacturers copy other's design to make profit. The practice is widespread and prevailing.

Our US company spends money in designing the product. Before the can be made our company spends an additional US$5-$15K per product for mold. Local contract manufacturers would turn around and use our mold to make the same products and sell them to our competitors in the US. Since our competitors do not have to pay for the product design and mold their costs are much lower than ours. I used to work in the garment industry and it is the same way.

Most(99%) Asian companies work in similar fashion, including the ones from Korea. Please remember the Chairman of Samsung was released from jail several years ago for bribing the President's assistant who I think is the conduit for their President. I never understand why our fellow Americans would support an oversea company who steals from an US company...

[mortopher]

RPFL!! Boy you're really reaching at straws!!

What can I say... Maybe you never learned this principle: Innovation = idea and the abilty to bring it to completion and to be accepted by a market. Innovation isn't just a 'dream'. If it were - we could say daVinci 'innovated' all our modern technology. Nuff said.

You said:

Apple 'invented' the very "idea" of a tablet.

Which is exactly what that link was in regards to.

I've never once said Apple was not great at innovating; they're one of the best around at it. However, in terms of inventing new devices they are no different than any other big tech company.

[NewdestinyX]

Really, Jobs just magically dreamed up the iPhone without ever having seen another smartphone? Windows Mobile was itself menu based but there were countless 'desktops' that were available to replace the 'today screen' with an icon based interface BEFORE the iPhone was released. You see WinMo has always allowed users to customize the UI.

Microsoft has 'innovated' in the same ways as Apple, by taking others' ideas and packaging them together.

Apple never borrowed from Microsoft, Kyphur. That's just nonsense. Before the iPhone the concept of an icon based GUI on a phone was not around. Period. There were smartphones like the Blackberry but nothing touch screen - DRIVEN. That's all Jobs' innovation and invention. The patents prove that.

Please don't make it sound like Jobs was prowling around for an idea to borrow. The whole world knows the timeless truth: Jobs innovates, packages first and Microsoft and others copy. That's just so provable.

Customizing the UI is a separate issues entirely. We still have to jailbreak to do that. Gates has always believed in open platform -to his credit. Jobs is way stingier on that front.

Just don't rewrite the history, Kyphur - that's all I'm saying. Any history that tries to make Gates the cool innovator and Jobs a spy and a stealer is just a fairy tale. We have legal case after legal case since the 80's proving otherwise. ;-)

[Mrteacup]

+1 to this

As somebody that has spent 7-8 years with the military in the Middle East, these comments really bother me. It's not because people don't have the right to feel that way and say they don't want to live in the U.S. (which is IN N. America), but because they do have those right's and largely don't appreciate it. Because they never paid for it, it was given to them.

Sure, the U.S. has its problems - not the least of which are ignorant, unappreciative citizen's that contribute nothing to the country that bestows those freedoms on them, but it's still the best country on the planet, in history. If you don't believe that, you have clearly never lived outside the US to understand the freedoms you enjoy- and I don't mean spending 10 days in some tourist trap or college exchange program. If you don't like what you see in the U.S., as a citizen you have the right to try and change it. Ask the people in Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, etc. if they would like to trade places with you here in the U.S.

I agree with you

To all those who don't the point is third world countries and even other first world countries have way worse conditions and problems with goverment. People are risking their lives everyday to protect you and your country why? Not because they are forced or threatened because they believe this is the best we have sure it has problems however it's as good as it gets. People need to understand they will never be satisfied never.

[kyphur]

Any history that tries to make Gates the cool innovator and Jobs a spy and a stealer is just a fairy tale. We have legal case after legal case since the 80's proving otherwise. ;-)

I never said that, I said they are the SAME.

WinMo was touchscreen driven (just with menus) and modders created icon based desktops long before the iPhone. I remember using a couple on my HTC BlueAngel running WinMo 2003 on Cingular network!

Both men did great things as they stood on the shoulders of others. You can't seriously vilify Gates without doing the same to Jobs if you want to be taken seriously...

Why do people with no personal stake in it take this so seriously? I just want the best tech possible and that needs competition to happen...

[NewdestinyX]

I never said that, I said they are the SAME.

WinMo was touchscreen driven (just with menus) and modders created icon based desktops long before the iPhone. I remember using a couple on my HTC BlueAngel running WinMo 2003 on Cingular network!

Both men did great things as they stood on the shoulders of others. You can't seriously vilify Gates without doing the same to Jobs if you want to be taken seriously...

Why do people with no personal stake in it take this so seriously? I just want the best tech possible and that needs competition to happen...

Sorry, Kyphur, my issue is with the equivalency you're trying to make. The history books will call Jobs an innovator and Gates a "follower". After the PC itself (which really Jobs and Gates in a way co-pioneered) Gates has never been a leader in the innovation of mass consumer tools. I'll give him
MSWord - though there were many word processors already out at the time. But he took it 'viral' shall we say.

But "equal in innovation" - no way. Sorry to disagree - but that position can't be defended by the facts. Facts are inconvenient things sometimes. Other than the origin of the PC and packaging a software based word processor - name one product that wasn't around before Gates innovated/invented it. There's a long list for Jobs. And that's the point.

[kyphur]

name one product that wasn't around before Gates innovated/invented it. There's a long list for Jobs. And that's the point.

I would love to see that list...

Before iPod there were many mp3 players.

Before iPad there were tablets.

Before iPhone there was:

1992, IBM Simon
2002, HTC Wallaby running MS Pocket PC 2002
2003, MS Windows Mobile 2003 was released on several devices (most manufactured by HTC)

Again, there is nothing new under the sun, just repackaging of existing ideas...

[daviedave]

As a US expat working in China for five years I have seen local manufacturers copy other's design to make profit. The practice is widespread and prevailing.

Our US company spends money in designing the product. Before the can be made our company spends an additional US$5-$15K per product for mold. Local contract manufacturers would turn around and use our mold to make the same products and sell them to our competitors in the US. Since our competitors do not have to pay for the product design and mold their costs are much lower than ours. I used to work in the garment industry and it is the same way.

Most(99%) Asian companies work in similar fashion, including the ones from Korea. Please remember the Chairman of Samsung was released from jail several years ago for bribing the President's assistant who I think is the conduit for their President. I never understand why our fellow Americans would support an oversea company who steals from an US company...

My wife had a factory in China, she would complain about the same thing, it's the norm over there.

[blwallace5]

I would love to see that list...

Before iPod there were many mp3 players.

Before iPad there were tablets.

Before iPhone there was:

1992, IBM Simon
2002, HTC Wallaby running MS Pocket PC 2002
2003, MS Windows Mobile 2003 was released on several devices (most manufactured by HTC)

Again, there is nothing new under the sun, just repackaging of existing ideas...

Newdestinyx, gates did not innovate with dos he purchased it. Jobs took ideas and reimagined them into products that were actually useful.

Kyphur, if you really think comparing non capacitive touchscreen devices running windows mobile were ANYTHING CLOSE to an iPhone with a true mobile os and capacitive touchscreen you are high. I ran a Siemens SX-66, not even remotely comparable. And tablet pc's have about as much similarity to today's tablets as the phone example above.

[kyphur]

Kyphur, if you really think comparing non capacitive touchscreen devices running windows mobile were ANYTHING CLOSE to an iPhone with a true mobile os and capacitive touchscreen you are high. I ran a Siemens SX-66, not even remotely comparable. And tablet pc's have about as much similarity to today's tablets as the phone example above.

I'm aware of the differences, the first generation of any tech rarely resembles what it evolves into. The first horseless carriages had wooden spoked wheels with metal band tires and were powered by steam engines but they are still acknowledged as the precursors of all cars on the road today.

Why do so many want to believe that Jobs farted the iPhone in a vacuum? That he was inspired by the work of others doesn't cheapen the results of his work...

[NewdestinyX]

I would love to see that list...
Before iPod there were many mp3 players.

But not an iPod with its button interface. That's the innovation.

Before iPad there were tablets.

Not with the Apple touch interface and icon driven. That's the innovation.

Before iPhone there was:
1992, IBM Simon
2002, HTC Wallaby running MS Pocket PC 2002
2003, MS Windows Mobile 2003 was released on several devices (most manufactured by HTC)

None of which had the touch interface and icon driven GUI. That was Jobs innovation.

Each item you mention were DISTANT PRECURSORS to the Apple items. SO distant - that it's not correct for you to make an equivalency in terming it a 'borrowed idea'. And the history books will (do) credit Jobs with INVENTING all of them. Because ---- he.... DID! :-) There was no 'iPod' before the iPod, no iPhone before the iPhone, etc..

Again, there is nothing new under the sun, just repackaging of existing ideas...

If what you were saying were true - patents wouldn't be possible on anything. Jobs owns the patents (and this gets back to the main topic of this thread) on 'the first' widely marketted MP3 player. He owns the patent on the first icon drive TABLET. He owns the patent on the first icon driven GUI for a Smartphone. Try as you may, Kiphur, you can't take away from Apple the 'innovation' and bring NEW products, never before widely distributed, to the world. That's called 'innovation' and 'invention'. Apple never had to pay a penny of copyright to anyone on the invention of an mp3 player, etc., etc....

Again I ask you - name one thing Gates 'innovated'. Interesting you won't rise to that challenge. Jobs and Apple were/are 'innovators'. Not 'repackagers'.

Why do so many want to believe that Jobs farted the iPhone in a vacuum? That he was inspired by the work of others doesn't cheapen the results of his work...

It 'cheapens' the innovation aspect that he rightly deserves. You can't compare DISTANT precursors to the eventual invention. You can't win this argument. You just can't. Jobs 'invents' and others copy him. That's the 'order' of the universe - at least still in 2012.

In all the stores on the planet- there was an iPhone -- THEN there were copies (Androids, etc)..
There were iPods, then there mp3 players copying the design..
There was an iMac then there were other all in one copies..
There was an iPad and then there were Tablet copies..
...period.. end of story..

[mortopher]

But not an iPod with its button interface. That's the innovation.

Not with the Apple touch interface and icon driven. That's the innovation.

None of which had the touch interface and icon driven GUI. That was Jobs innovation.

Each item you mention were DISTANT PRECURSORS to the Apple items. SO distant - that it's not correct for you to make an equivalency in terming it a 'borrowed idea'. And the history books will (do) credit Jobs with INVENTING all of them. Because ---- he.... DID! :-) There was no 'iPod' before the iPod, no iPhone before the iPhone, etc..

If what you were saying were true - patents wouldn't be possible on anything. Jobs owns the patents (and this gets back to the main topic of this thread) on 'the first' widely marketted MP3 player. He owns the patent on the first icon drive TABLET. He owns the patent on the first icon driven GUI for a Smartphone. Try as you may, Kiphur, you can't take away from Apple the 'innovation' and bring NEW products, never before widely distributed, to the world. That's called 'innovation' and 'invention'. Apple never had to pay a penny of copyright to anyone on the invention of an mp3 player, etc., etc....

Again I ask you - name one thing Gates 'innovated'. Interesting you won't rise to that challenge. Jobs and Apple were/are 'innovators'. Not 'repackagers'.

It 'cheapens' the innovation aspect that he rightly deserves. You can't compare DISTANT precursors to the eventual invention. You can't win this argument. You just can't. Jobs 'invents' and others copy him. That's the 'order' of the universe - at least still in 2012.

In all the stores on the planet- there was an iPhone -- THEN there were copies (Androids, etc)..
There were iPods, then there mp3 players copying the design..
There was an iMac then there were other all in one copies..
There was an iPad and then there were Tablet copies..
...period.. end of story..

Until you can differentiate between invention and innovation there is no point to anyone continuing to debate with you.

Please keep in mind Jobs didn't do all of this on his own. While the catalyst behind many of Apple's products, the majority of the actual innovating was done by the amazing minds he surrounded himself with.

[NewdestinyX]

Until you can differentiate between invention and innovation there is no point to anyone continuing to debate with you.

Please keep in mind Jobs didn't do all of this on his own. While the catalyst behind many of Apple's products, the majority of the actual innovating was done by the amazing minds he surrounded himself with.

Kyphur's original arguments were against Job's as an innovator too. The "inventor" aspect I can acquiesce a bit on. But not much. There was no iPod, as an iPod ever INVENTED before the iPod. Apple owns its patent. The US government gives patents for INVENTIONS not just innovations. And the whole reason Apple won the infringement case with Samsung was precisely because Samsung tried to steal Apple's 'invention' - in this case the GUI touch icon concept among other things they ripped.

Your point is well taken about Jobs surrounding himself with great people - but if you read about Apple's story you'll quickly discover Jobs was the 'idea man' for every product. That's the obvious explanation for why Apple went downhill to the point of bankruptcy without Jobs. And why they started their trek back to their current status only after he returned. And why the jury is still out for me as to whether Apple can stay on its trajectory without Jobs' "ideas".

[kyphur]

Kyphur's original arguments were against Job's as an innovator too. The "inventor" aspect I can acquiesce a bit on. But not much. There was no iPod, as an iPod ever INVENTED before the iPod. Apple owns its patent. The US government gives patents for INVENTIONS not just innovations. And the whole reason Apple won the infringement case with Samsung was precisely because Samsung tried to steal Apple's 'invention' - in this case the GUI touch icon concept among other things they ripped.

Your point is well taken about Jobs surrounding himself with great people - but if you read about Apple's story you'll quickly discover Jobs was the 'idea man' for every product. That's the obvious explanation for why Apple went downhill to the point of bankruptcy without Jobs. And why they started their trek back to their current status only after he returned. And why the jury is still out for me as to whether Apple can stay on its trajectory without Jobs' "ideas".

From Steve Jobs' own mouth, he embraced a philosophy of idea thieft...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU