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Thread: Apple Ramping Up Legal Fight Over Amazon's Use of 'Appstore'

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Originally Posted by Silverado1987 There just trying to get as much as they can get that they can try and limit there future competitors. I understand. I mean if they
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverado1987 View Post
    There just trying to get as much as they can get that they can try and limit there future competitors. I understand. I mean if they got it. No one can use app store. They can't use Market store thing for android. They'd have to call it something else. And app store just sounds a little more professional which in hope brings customers in.
    By that logic (quoting piston597), people could go suing people for using shoe store, or burger joint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Ninja View Post
    Why do people think Apple made the word App? Lol so stupid. Apple thinks they can start owning words they didn't make up now... It will never end but the problem is judges will allow it just cuz they are as ignorant.
    Well why not? They even think that a rectangular device
    Design belongs to them

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    amazing, apple is haggling with the world's largest retailer? this could get ugly. i wonder how the development of the amazon phone is progressing. modmyamazon?

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    Its been official..Apple is in court more than cigarette makers these days. Protecting a brand is one thing, buying the dictionary is another. Wonder if any court will ever judge against them. Then again with that kind of money you can buy more than just chips..you can buy people lets be honest here

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    5 years ago the term "app store" didn't exist. if it weren't for apple, it still wouldn't exist. apple has every right to trademark it and protect it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottjl View Post
    5 years ago the term "app store" didn't exist. if it weren't for apple, it still wouldn't exist. apple has every right to trademark it and protect it.
    I can agree with you up to a point, but what some of us are saying is that the name "App Store" is far to generic to own. Apple is notorious for not licensing the trademarks and patents it owns to other companies. Apple is trying to monopolize on patents and trademarks. Case and point, they're trying to get the patents owned by Kodak through claims that it was their idea instead of bidding on them like everyone else. Why pay for a patent when we can pay less to get it free. I feel like Apple should give up these ridiculous lawsuits while they're gaining ground in the mobile market place. With iOS 6 and iPhone 5 lingering around the corner, they should concentrate on us consumers and what we're anticipating.

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    I'm waiting to hear about the lawsuit Apple make against everyone who uses the triangle for Play and the 2 lines for Pause.

    Again, Apple are the stupidest company with more money than sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottjl View Post
    5 years ago the term "app store" didn't exist. if it weren't for apple, it still wouldn't exist. apple has every right to trademark it and protect it.
    Sure it did. Any store that has ever sold computer programs or applications was by an definition, an application store. Or app store for short.

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    Honestly, App Store had been used by other companies long before the iPhone, so, I don't see them winning this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by piston597 View Post
    It's official, Apple's gone sue happy. Isn't this kinda ridiculous? I mean you shouldn't be able to trademark something that vague... App Store is the equivalent of me trademarking Shoe Store and Burger Joint. If it was like iOS App Store or Mac App Store that's fine, but App Store is pushing it...
    You seem to forget that no one else uses "App" to represent "Application" before Apple starts its "App Store" name. If the name being disputed is "Application Store", I would agree that you made a good analog, but in reality your analog is a very bad one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tongxinshe View Post
    You seem to forget that no one else uses "App" to represent "Application" before Apple starts its "App Store" name. If the name being disputed is "Application Store", I would agree that you made a good analog, but in reality your analog is a very bad one.
    That's completely wrong. I can not even explain in words how wrong that is. The term "App" has been used to represent "Application" for many years before Apple even thought of making an iPhone.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamemaster77 View Post
    That's completely wrong. I can not even explain in words how wrong that is. The term "App" has been used to represent "Application" for many years before Apple even thought of making an iPhone.
    You really have hard time at comprehension! Sigh! Okay, let me say it in the long form:

    Sure everyone uses short forms in different ways, so sure some people might have used "App" for "Application" from time to time, so does other people used "App" for "Appeals", "Appearances", "Appetite", "Applaud", "Appendix", "Appliances" or "Apparels" or "Appologies" or "Appointed", so on and so on, from time to time. But, it only becomes universally the abbreviation for "Application" since Apple called it online application store "App Store". I see that Apple chose that abbreviation form partly because they want people to connect the "App" with "Apple" as well.



    By the way, I didn't copy you on this image since it has existed on the internet for many years. )))

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    Quote Originally Posted by tongxinshe View Post
    You really have hard time at comprehension! Sigh! Okay, let me say it in the long form:

    Sure everyone uses short forms in different ways, so sure some people might have used "App" for "Application" from time to time, so does other people used "App" for "Appeals", "Appearances", "Appetite", "Applaud", "Appendix", "Appliances" or "Apparels" or "Appologies" or "Appointed", so on and so on, from time to time. But, it only becomes universally the abbreviation for "Application" since Apple called it online application store "App Store". I see that Apple chose that abbreviation form partly because they want people to connect the "App" with "Apple" as well.
    Okay even if I misunderstood you, and that's what you mean, you are still completely wrong. The term "app" was in pretty common usage before Apple made their App Store. Just because Apple made more people know of it, doesn't mean they own the word. It's still, just a word. Here is a little proof for you, since obviously you need to be convinced. One of the most common usage for the term "app" was in "web apps". The iOS "App Store" was created in July of 2008. So here is a simple Google search for "web apps" that only includes pages from before 2008.
    Google Search


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamemaster77 View Post
    Okay even if I misunderstood you, and that's what you mean, you are still completely wrong. The term "app" was in pretty common usage before Apple made their App Store. Just because Apple made more people know of it, doesn't mean they own the word. It's still, just a word. Here is a little proof for you, since obviously you need to be convinced. One of the most common usage for the term "app" was in "web apps". The iOS "App Store" was created in July of 2008. So here is a simple Google search for "web apps" that only includes pages from before 2008.
    Google Search

    PortableApps.com has used the term "app" since 2004 as port of their copyright on their website. Surely, we can't assume Apple to win a case solely on the term "app" so maybe it's the phrase "App Store" together as a whole. I know of no other company who has used that specific phrase prior to 2007. Anyone else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tongxinshe View Post
    You seem to forget that no one else uses "App" to represent "Application" before Apple starts its "App Store" name. If the name being disputed is "Application Store", I would agree that you made a good analog, but in reality your analog is a very bad one.
    I recall the term "app" being used a short-hand for "application" in the realm of computing since the early 90's at the very latest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamemaster77 View Post
    Okay even if I misunderstood you, and that's what you mean, you are still completely wrong. The term "app" was in pretty common usage before Apple made their App Store. Just because Apple made more people know of it, doesn't mean they own the word. It's still, just a word. Here is a little proof for you, since obviously you need to be convinced. One of the most common usage for the term "app" was in "web apps". The iOS "App Store" was created in July of 2008. So here is a simple Google search for "web apps" that only includes pages from before 2008.
    Google Search
    Interestingly, the link you listed there sort of actually proved my points. All of the pages before 2007 use "application" much more than "app", and always under a specific context like "web app", with "web application" being used earlier as an explanation. Then, since January 2007, after Apple boldly uses "app" at all times to refer to their iOS applications, the pages totally dropped the usage of "application". This history clearly prove that Apple created the fashion of using "app" for applications on mobile devices. With that fashion Apple created, and the fact that no one claimed the brand "App Store" (notice, "app" is still not a defined word nor a definitive abbreviation in Linguistics) in the online retail realm, it is very reasonable for Apple to blame Amazon for using the exact same name. There are still so many other phrases with similar meanings, by choosing exactly the same Linguistically semi-wrong phrase, Amazon is so obviously either trying to take a free ride on the tide Apple created or trying to confuse some consumers into visiting its online store.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tongxinshe View Post
    Interestingly, the link you listed there sort of actually proved my points. All of the pages before 2007 use "application" much more than "app", and always under a specific context like "web app", with "web application" being used earlier as an explanation. Then, since January 2007, after Apple boldly uses "app" at all times to refer to their iOS applications, the pages totally dropped the usage of "application". This history clearly prove that Apple created the fashion of using "app" for applications on mobile devices. With that fashion Apple created, and the fact that no one claimed the brand "App Store" (notice, "app" is still not a defined word nor a definitive abbreviation in Linguistics) in the online retail realm, it is very reasonable for Apple to blame Amazon for using the exact same name. There are still so many other phrases with similar meanings, by choosing exactly the same Linguistically semi-wrong phrase, Amazon is so obviously either trying to take a free ride on the tide Apple created or trying to confuse some consumers into visiting its online store.
    You're fighting a losing battle here. First of all, you agreed with me that app has been used as a shorthand version of a computer application. It doesn't matter that Apple used it universally, it already existed in the past. It's not like it was solely used for "web app", that was just the most common one. Take Hillefied's example of PortableApps, that's long existed before the Apple App Store. Secondly, you are completely wrong on the second part. "App" is not a "linguistically semi-wrong phrase". It's been listed in the Merriam-Webster dictionary and says it's first known usage was 1987, decades before Apple was even close to the App Store.

    Dictionary Link

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamemaster77 View Post
    You're fighting a losing battle here. First of all, you agreed with me that app has been used as a shorthand version of a computer application. It doesn't matter that Apple used it universally, it already existed in the past. It's not like it was solely used for "web app", that was just the most common one. Take Hillefied's example of PortableApps, that's long existed before the Apple App Store. Secondly, you are completely wrong on the second part. "App" is not a "linguistically semi-wrong phrase". It's been listed in the Merriam-Webster dictionary and says it's first known usage was 1987, decades before Apple was even close to the App Store.
    First, I need to remind you that using tricks/techniques like "self-claim winner" is not a sincere debating attitude. If you are not sincerely trying to make things clear, there is really no point of debating, because you will simply emphasize all arguments useful to you and happily ignore everything else.

    You need to understand, if an abbreviation is not understandable to the majority its audience, without its full form being listed in a near precedence, it cannot be considered a valid universal abbreviation, especially if people sometimes use the same abbreviation for other words as well. "App" for "application" obviously falls into this category before Jan. 2007. Then, with Apple's help, it gradually becomes universally accepted. Moreover, after these years, if anyone still tried to use "app" as abbreviation for things like "appeal", quite a percentage of picky people will nail it as spelling error. So, you have to admit that it's Apple who created this trend of using "app" directly, everywhere, across the board. Then, since the brand "App Store" isn't registered by anyone else, yet, I don't see it should be blamed for the creator of this trend to apply for this brand name.

    Now goes to the Amazon side, there are so many other phrases of similar meaning, why doesn't it choose a different one like "Application Supermarket", "Kindle App Store", "Android App Store", "Program Market", "Software Center", so on and so on, but have to pick exactly the same one, which is still linguistically semi-wrong? Its intention is SO clear!!

    For your arguments about my description of "linguistically semi-wrong", what you said is exactly why I said "semi-". The language textbooks still says "application", a lot of people who don't follow the tech-trend well enough still need to guess which word "app" exactly means, some dictionaries that don't update so frequently still don't have it listed. You will have to have a very recent version of cover-it-all type of dictionary to guarantee you find a slot for it. Go check the dictionary you mentioned, its 2006 or before versions most likely don't have this slot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tongxinshe View Post
    First, I need to remind you that using tricks/techniques like "self-claim winner" is not a sincere debating attitude. If you are not sincerely trying to make things clear, there is really no point of debating, because you will simply emphasize all arguments useful to you and happily ignore everything else.

    You need to understand, if an abbreviation is not understandable to the majority its audience, without its full form being listed in a near precedence, it cannot be considered a valid universal abbreviation, especially if people sometimes use the same abbreviation for other words as well. "App" for "application" obviously falls into this category before Jan. 2007. Then, with Apple's help, it gradually becomes universally accepted. Moreover, after these years, if anyone still tried to use "app" as abbreviation for things like "appeal", quite a percentage of picky people will nail it as spelling error. So, you have to admit that it's Apple who created this trend of using "app" directly, everywhere, across the board. Then, since the brand "App Store" isn't registered by anyone else, yet, I don't see it should be blamed for the creator of this trend to apply for this brand name.

    Now goes to the Amazon side, there are so many other phrases of similar meaning, why doesn't it choose a different one like "Application Supermarket", "Kindle App Store", "Android App Store", "Program Market", "Software Center", so on and so on, but have to pick exactly the same one, which is still linguistically semi-wrong? Its intention is SO clear!!

    For your arguments about my description of "linguistically semi-wrong", what you said is exactly why I said "semi-". The language textbooks still says "application", a lot of people who don't follow the tech-trend well enough still need to guess which word "app" exactly means, some dictionaries that don't update so frequently still don't have it listed. You will have to have a very recent version of cover-it-all type of dictionary to guarantee you find a slot for it. Go check the dictionary you mentioned, its 2006 or before versions most likely don't have this slot.
    I agree with you on one point, it wasn't universally used; however, that does not make it wrong. "App" existed before Apple, so Apple can not just use that and claim it as their own. That is clearly what they are trying to do, they're basically trying to claim ownership of the word "app". If someone says that it's just the combination of "app" and "store", how come I can't just go trademark Shirt Store, or Burger Joint. Essentially "app" was a niche word only applying to people who followed computer technology or worked with it. It was clearly used by multiple people in that area. Although it was not used by the public, it's clearly just a word/abbreviation and not anyone's clever thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamemaster77 View Post
    I agree with you on one point, it wasn't universally used; however, that does not make it wrong. "App" existed before Apple, so Apple can not just use that and claim it as their own. That is clearly what they are trying to do, they're basically trying to claim ownership of the word "app". If someone says that it's just the combination of "app" and "store", how come I can't just go trademark Shirt Store, or Burger Joint. Essentially "app" was a niche word only applying to people who followed computer technology or worked with it. It was clearly used by multiple people in that area. Although it was not used by the public, it's clearly just a word/abbreviation and not anyone's clever thinking.
    I don't see Apple trying to own the word "App". No one can own any word, even if he totally invented it. Apple is only trying to register a brand name called "App Store". With their contributions to the birth of the trend of universally using "app" and the fact that they are the first one using that name also made it well known, I think they have rights to ask for that. It's the same as Bunger King claiming the brand "Burger King" in restaurant realm.

    The reason Apple sues Amazon before it is granted the brand, is that Amazon has shown very obvious evil intention of taking free ride and/or confusing some customers.
    Last edited by tongxinshe; 08-01-2012 at 07:38 PM.

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