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Originally Posted by mr117 Republicans spending more of your money? Weird! Truly, get past the name calling and into an objective discussion. We are in this mess because of Republicans....
04-12-2011, 08:53 PM #81
And, read about GE. they didn't pay a single dollar in taxes this year, say what you want, but they need to tax corporations more. Oh the rich work hard, blahblahblah, so do teachers, and janitors, and your garbage man! How much do you think he gets paid? Or even thanked? The society is corrupt.
We honor a dumbass that can drive a car around a track (yes, im insulting NASCAR) but we cannot give a teacher two tenths of their salary.
When our next generation (I'm included) grows up to being dumbasses, IM blaming all of those who are saying the rich don't need to be taxed. Wait till you have kids, and they are learning to read in HIGHSCHOOL. This is the situation we are going through.
The world is going to end with our generation if we do not focus on education.
Coming from a student- the government should not be in schools. It should allow teachers instead of shooting for minimalist kids the next generation...
The next Crisis we have, like the one in Japan, and it's up to our generation? It will be the end.
Wanna fix this whole debt thing?
Legalize weed, government mandate it, and tax the **** out of it.
Billions of dollars right back in.
"oh but it's a gateway drug" well, so is alcohol.
How many people under the influence of alcohol would pass up a drug if offered?
Just my 2 cents.
04-12-2011, 08:56 PM #82
First, Durbin did not single-handedly cause a financial crisis. But, he was directly involved with the legislation that brought us to this point. However, many others “Republican” (Bush-SR & JR, McCain) and Democrats are just as guilty for this catastrophe.
Legislators raising taxes once again for any reason at this point is un-acceptable, which brings me to my second point. Until they take the plank, of massive unnecessary spending, out of their own eye they should not be asking me or anyone else, regardless there pay scale, to foot the bill.
Cut my mom’s Medicare, after all, we survived for over 1800 years just fine without it. We can thank good ol’Boy Roosevelt for our exciting and enticing social programs, which, if you look at our Native Indian’s and how well they have thrived under the awe-inspiring government Social Programs shines a bright light to the Flashing RED LIGHT of FAILURE.
Oh, and God forbid we actually have to work for our food. I mean, after all, doesn’t the Bible tell us “if you don’t work you don’t eat”. (2 Thessalonians 3:10) I am a Republican and I did call out some names, but, I will take it a step further and say that all Republicans are just as guilty as any Democrats.
So, until any legislator is willing to tighten, and I mean really tighten, their own belts don’t look to us Americans to pay for your gambling problem. Then and only then can we the people sit down and have a true American debate. Not when some republican names republicans for the elite-money-hungry morons they are. Maybe since you’re so well versed in the manner of “Reading” you could enlighten us all with your vast knowledge of letters that fallow your name. Pick up a few key books: 5000 year leap, New Deal or Raw Deal by Burt Folsom he should be right up your alley MR. 6 degrees, one being in Economics.
Last edited by dmoore0157; 04-12-2011 at 09:28 PM.
04-12-2011, 08:59 PM #83
04-12-2011, 09:21 PM #84
He11 no! Like the economy can get any frickin better!
04-12-2011, 09:30 PM #85
04-12-2011, 09:48 PM #86
F***you Uncle Sam.
04-12-2011, 09:52 PM #87
They already do in NY
04-12-2011, 09:54 PM #88
I have yet to see a single person intelligently explain to me why ANYONE should dip into my income for any reason. No one should have the right to take the earnings I get for my labor. NO ONE. Rich, poor, middle class. Doesn't matter. No one should be able to take someone's earnings for the labor they performed, I don't care if you make $10/hr or $10,000/hr. Taking labor wages is slavery. They didn't do the work, they don't deserve a cut. Taxes should be levied on purchases. Period. Labor wages should never be touched, I won't vote for a candidate that won't abolish income tax. Ever. 'Lowering' income tax isn't good enough, only abolishment is. People can boohoo about how much billionaires make, and how 'unfair' it is for them to not pay more than they do. You didn't perform the labor, you don't get to take it or say how much should be taken. Unions are useless, minimum wage is hilarious (the majority are paid way more than they're worth), and tax laws benefit the politician. If you vote for a candidate that doesn't get rid of income tax completely, doesn't stop ALL military occupation and wars/conflict over the entire globe, and can't see why we are in trouble and has a history of why, YOU are the problem. And I have nothing but complete and utter contempt for you.HK-Z™ on Game Center
04-12-2011, 09:54 PM #89
If they are taxing iTunes then they should lower the price for music then
04-12-2011, 09:59 PM #90
I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble following the post above by dmoore. There are some really cogent points, and then murk, and then another cogent point, and then namecalling.
I never said my intelligence far supersedes yours. I also said I had two degrees and two teaching credentials. That equals four (you know, the old 2 + 2 thing). You WERE calling out names, as you put it. I don't believe I've done so in my posts, because I truly believe in having a civilized discussion, no matter how much someone baits me. I'm able to do so, I just choose not to do so.
Your point re Durbin being just one, and then pointing to others, is well-made. Yes, even McCain, who made a name for himself as being honest, was in it up to his neck. Of course, for those of us with long memories, we can recall ole' Honest John back in the days of the Savings and Loan debacle being up to his ears in it then.
However, your comment about cutting your mom's Medicare and surviving 1800 years is just beyond me. You'd sacrifice your mom's health on the expediency of political rhetoric? And nearly two thousand years ago would have been during the Roman Empire- and not the fun part of it, either.
Then you talk about "unnecessary spending." Who defines that? I think, and I'm not alone, that we should drastically cut military spending. But cutting Medicare? That program seems pretty necessary to me. How about we cut the pay of our congresspeople, and their benefits as well? That seems doable. How about fixing infrastructure, which would lead to lots of new jobs? That spending seems fairly necessary.
Then you talk about (Franklin) Roosevelt. I happen to think Social Security is a good thing. I pay in, I get back, I'm not a burden on society or in the poorhouse when I get too old to work.
"Native Indians?" Again, you lost me. Native Americans or Indians, yes? What about them? We committed genocide on them, put their kids in ours schools in the 1800s and forced them out of their own culture, stole their land, and put a corrupt BIA in charge of them.
I'm really surprised you didn't bring up the other cultural group we've destroyed in this country though a systematic destruction of their culture. Oh, wait, we have one of them for a president now.
The bible? Whose? Which? Why here, in America, are you talking about religion when there is supposed to be a separation of church and state? Oh, wait, you mean churches, that don't pay any taxes because they are exempt, right? Now we are back on topic. How rich is the Church in this country? How much property does it own, and not pay taxes on? Do you really want to go there?
Then you make some really good points about both sides of politics being guilty. Finally, an honest man! Thank you!
Then you bring up a book (5000 Years) written by a conservative anti-communist who posits that this nation was founded on Cristian principals. Well, to a point. The Pilgrims were zealots who fled England because the Church of England was not strict enough for their tastes. Jamestown? They came to get rich, almost starved to death, would have unless the Indians had not helped them (oops!), and then enslaved the Indians, killed them off, and then imported slaves from Africa to do their work for them. But there were also founding fathers who were not overly religious, Jefferson for one, who was accused by Adams of being an Atheist during their battle for the Presidency. And, certainly, we began by changing the English Constitution's right to "property" to "pursuit of happiness" in ours. You couldn't vote unless you owned land and could read and write. We didn't have a direct Presidential election, it was the Electoral College, because the founding fathers didn't believe ordinary Americans were smart enough to vote. Oh, and the Senate was not an elective office until much later. You see, I actually "teach" the Constitution. Every year. In several classes. We read it. We discuss it. We break it apart and try to understand the historical background of it. It's not a talking point, it is the basis for our laws. But of course you know about Federalism and Anti-Federalism, and the fight for a stronger central government and the later addition of the Bill of Rights to actually protect people from unfair government intrusion into their lives. You are FOR the Bill of Rights, I assume?
As to the New Deal/Raw Deal book, I think FDR did a much better job than did Hoover (no, not J. Edgar, the other one). Mistakes were made, he tried to pack the Supreme Court, but by and large the country got through it (with the help of WW 2). My parents lived through the Great Depression and they had nothing bad to say about FDR or unions. Our lives are much easier, and we didn't have to walk in their shoes.
As to your parting shot about Mr. 6 Degrees, which I assume is you trying to mock me, albeit with poor grammar and mistaken addition (2+2 does, really, equal 4), it seems kind of gratuitous. I haven't called you a ditto head, or a doofus, or even a nattering nabob of negativity (look it up). It just seems out of place in a civilized discussion. You made a few good points. You rambled a bit. You jumped the tracks a few times. But then you went back to name calling.
A scorpion asked a frog for a ride across a river...... as the scorpion and the frog were sinking to their death , the frog said, why did you sting me? We are both going to die? And the scorpion replied, it's just my nature.
I guess you are the scorpion. It's just your nature to call people names and attempt to belittle others.Senior
04-12-2011, 10:06 PM #91
Sorry mr117, but Democrats are guilty of every single thing you put on Republicans. They voted for war, they voted for raises on Congress, they voted for the Patriot Act, they voted for the TSA, they've started wars and not ended them, shall I go on? Both are guilty, both are liars. If you believe anything otherwise you're trying to justify your hatred. I hate Republicans, just like I hate Democrats in Congress. Putting more blame on one side than the other is laughable considering what's happened over the past 60 odd years in this country. It drives me insane when people vote or are opinionated along party lines. It tells me they are both close minded and ignorant. Ignorant by choice, not by opportunity. I don't disagree with what you've said because you're both right and completely wrong at the same time. I would urge you to look inward on your own party and discover that they are absolutely no different than the Republican party. No one bit different.HK-Z™ on Game Center
04-12-2011, 10:25 PM #92
I believe I said that I can find much wrong with Democrats but, until dmoore stated that he believed Republicans were guilty of getting us into this mess, no Republican here had done anything other than point fingers at Dems and say, neener neener neener, it's all your fault.
I don't believe I have actually said or even implied I am a Democrat. You may assume, from some of my comments, that I am. But that is merely your assumption. There are many political parties in this country besides the Big Two. I also don't think it's pertinent to this discussion that I state any party affiliation, if, indeed, I even have one.
The reality is that politicians got us in this mess. This is because they all lie. They have to, to get in office and to stay in office. They also try to do what WE want them to do, as long as it doesn't interrupt the money flowing to them to stay in office. WE are as guilty as are they. We vote for them. We back them. We allow them to play on the big stage. They are supposed to represent us. Do YOU feel represented, by either party? I certainly don't.
Having said that, it seems clear that one side is determined to hand us over to big business. We have, as the saying goes, the best government money can buy. Sad but true. I don't believe my seeing clearly what is happening to average Americans makes me a Democrat, any more than my desire for fiscal conservatism makes me a Republican. And I don't hate politicians. They are human, and we put the ones we have in place. Ultimately, we are responsible.
As to your previous point about taking your money away from your labor, taxes are in the Constitution. Why, back in 1776 they realized they needed money to run things. I like paved roads, and bridges, and police (most of the time) and clean water and free schooling and... That's the price we all pay for our civilized society. My guess is the Unibomber and the nitwits who blew up the Oklahoma Federal Building didn't like taxes either. Not that I'm conflating your views with theirs, of course.Senior
04-12-2011, 10:43 PM #93
You always hear about cuts in education. I don't think education should be taking a hit every time the gov needs more money. And i dont think athletes should make so much money how bout we cut back on what they make and give some to teachers and education. American football isn't going to make kids successful, teachers should be making a good amount of money especially with all the retard potheads they have to deal with.
Honestly the gov is just plain corrupted
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04-12-2011, 10:59 PM #94
I could be wrong, but I don't think that the Constitution states income tax. Infrastructure comes from gas tax, or it should. Everything else you mentioned can be paid for through taxes on purchased goods. Be it a house, a car, or a pack of gum. I have yet to see anyone show me a good reason my labor wages should go to someone else. That, by definition (mine) is slavery. Taxes on gas could easily pay for road upkeep, if it weren't for state run entities performing road maintenance. With their wonderful unions the automakers shouldn't have hung themselves. The amount of entitlements those people demand is staggering and scary. No education or skill required and they make more than me. I have 10 years experience in my field and alot of schooling to back it up. Bolting together a car takes zero skill, zero intelligence and zero effort. At least not worth what they get paid. Especially when they are smoking pot and drinking on the job. If unions were so great, that wouldn't happen. Their benefits are just insane as well. I think everyone can agree road crews aren't doing what they are paid to do, and when they do the job it's most likely done very poorly. I assumed you were a Democrat, or lean that way, because you have insinuated multiple times Republicans are solely to blame for the current deficit, and that somehow you should have a say in what amount of money someone deserves to keep. Which is flatly false. It's none of your business what anyone makes and you have no right to demand someone pay more because they make more. Not one Democrat has had the spine to stand up and demand any war, or any base be stopped or closed immediately upon UnConstitutional grounds. Not one. So, guilty as a Republican. And for a President that 'taught' Constitutional law, he most certainly doesnt know his supposed area of expertise. Has any Democrat stood up to him about Libya? Nope. They are allowing him to waste money on a war we don't need or have any business being in, to protect oil exploration contracts by European countries (didn't Bush get reamed for oil wars?) while saying taxes need to be raised to reduce the deficit. They are just as guilty as anyone. If you aren't a Democrat I apologize for labeling you as one, at the same time it isn't solely the Republicans fault we are in debt so far, no matter who started the bailouts or the wars or regulation/deregulation.
Just because one dude held the gun at a liquor store holdup doesn't mean the guy cleaning out the register is less guilty of robbery. (not to attack your personally of course!)HK-Z™ on Game Center
04-12-2011, 11:10 PM #95
Oh, and don't want to see athletes making so much money? Don't go to the games. Don't buy team gear. Don't watch it on tv. The people who do, pay their salary, and NO ONE has the right to tell someone else they aren't entitled to what someone will pay them. I don't care they make millions, it's not my business. Same as it isn't my business what anyone else makes. I cannot understand why people think they should have a say in what wages another person makes. Want more money? Go make more. Invent something. Start a company. Become a politician. Haha.
Want to know why people are getting further and further behind? They buy **** they don't need and can't afford. Money management is why the Bill Gates and Steve Jobs of the world are swimming in money. I see people everyday that can't put 20 bucks of gas in their car but somehow have 24 inch rims. Or buy they buy cigarettes instead of fresh vegetables at the grocery store. Or have a 52 inch tv and can't pay their light bill. I see people who think getting their brakes done is outrageously expensive, but go in wearing $150 shoes and $80 pants and a Ralph Lauren shirt that costs $40. Haven't even met the dude! They've got a $300 iPhone and their kids eat at McDonalds rather than a home cooked meal. THAT'S a huge part of the problem. They've got crap they don't need, kids they can't feed, cars that are too big, and they ***** about minimum wage being too low.HK-Z™ on Game Center
04-12-2011, 11:27 PM #96
Ugh! Not this crap! I already have been paying taxes when purchasing apps!Asking for help is different from being stupid. Fanboys can rot in @#$%!
04-12-2011, 11:33 PM #97
An unspoken, but false, assumption in public policy is that if something is good to have, then government ought to be in the business of providing it. In other words, if healthcare is good for people to have, then government ought to provide it, or force others to provide it cheaply. If interstate highways are good to have, then government ought to provide them. If education is good, then government ought to provide it, or subsidize it.
What often happens, however, is that when government gets involved in providing or mandating, services, then incentives change and the services become worse. For example, after the Civil War, most people believed transcontinental railroads were good to have, and so government subsidized the building of the Union Pacific and Central Pacific Railroads. Both railroads chased after federal subsidies, provided poor service, and eventually went bankrupt. Then James J. Hill came along and built the Great Northern Railroad from St. Paul to Seattle with no federal subsidies. He built the road well, and it was the only transcontinental not to go bankrupt.
In 1900, most people believed that airplanes would be good to have, and so the federal government subsidized Samuel Langley to invent and produce a manned flight. Langley crashed two airplanes trying to perfect them, but failed miserably and wasted federal tax dollars. Less than two weeks after his final attempt, the Wright brothers, with their own cash, flew the first airplane at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. Without federal dollars to create bad habits, the Wright brothers spent and built wisely and correctly.
Federal money often corrupts the political and economic process. Those who receive subsidies play political games rather than creating quality goods and services. Also, those who chase federal dollars often value Senators who can keep the money coming. If the receiver of subsidies fails, then he lobbies for more and more cash to keep trying again and again. The Founders, by contrast, mostly wanted government out of economic life because they recognized that consumers, not politicians, should pick the winners and losers in the open marketplace. Do we trust ourselves to make wise financial decisions with our own money, or do we think politicians can spend our money better?
04-13-2011, 12:07 AM #98
04-13-2011, 02:07 AM #99
I'm in NY and we already get hit with taxes on everything. I used to have an Amazon Prime account and buy so much from them until a few years ago
I buy my music from 7digital when I can and order anything from NewEgg when possible. The only 2 sites that aren't charging me sales tax.
04-13-2011, 02:47 AM #100