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Thread: Sony Granted Access to Two Years of Geohot's PayPal Records

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I feel sorry for Him. What a blatant rip on Privacy. Sony has this judge in there pocket. I cant believe some of these ruling. It must some OLD hag
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  1. #201
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    I feel sorry for Him. What a blatant rip on Privacy. Sony has this judge in there pocket. I cant believe some of these ruling. It must some OLD hag or crabby as old man, who hates technology, definately a republican judge!
    Last edited by Cer0; 03-20-2011 at 05:35 AM.

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    mortopher-

    It doesn't need to be illegal to have you arrested on "conspiracy to commit mass murder."

    Your bomb and rape references are amongst the worst examples for arguments I have ever seen. You're comparing rape to hacking a PS3? I think I speak for rape victims everywhere when I say you're an idiot.

    Nice backpedaling with the "what ifs" comment. It's nice to see you can't come up with any response so you choose some lame copout instead.

    The entire case hinges on the fact that those keys were extremely important to protecting the integrity and security of the system and the ability of people to play games fairly and not run pirated software. Once they were given out and the system was jailbroken I can guarantee you massive amounts of piracy would have occurred.

    This is exactly what Sony was trying to stop before it was too late by making an example out of geohot.

    The jailbreaking part is vital to the evidence in this case because the jailbreaking IS the hacking that Sony is accusing geohot of doing. Defeating their security protocols and giving out the necessary information for others to do the same.

    Unlike with the iPhone, which I think is why you are confused, the PS3 requires these keys to be jailbroken. No keys? No jailbreak. No piracy.

    iPhone: no keys(not to be confused with SHSH blobs) doesn't matter, still can jailbreak.

    Vast differences.
    Last edited by alexevo; 03-18-2011 at 02:25 PM.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexevo View Post
    mortopher-

    It doesn't need to be illegal to have you arrested on "conspiracy to commit mass murder."

    Your bomb and rape references are amongst the worst examples for arguments I have ever seen. You're comparing rape to hacking a PS3? I think I speak for rape victims everywhere when I say you're an idiot.

    Nice backpedaling with the "what ifs" comment. It's nice to see you can't come up with any response so you choose some lame copout instead.

    The entire case hinges on the fact that those keys were extremely important to protecting the integrity and security of the system and the ability of people to play games fairly and not run pirated software. Once they were given out and the system was jailbroken I can guarantee you massive amounts of piracy would have occurred.

    This is exactly what Sony was trying to stop before it was too late by making an example out of geohot.

    The jailbreaking part is vital to the evidence in this case because the jailbreaking IS the hacking that Sony is accusing geohot of doing. Defeating their security protocols and giving out the necessary information for others to do the same.

    Unlike with the iPhone, which I think is why you are confused, the PS3 requires these keys to be jailbroken. No keys? No jailbreak. No piracy.

    iPhone: no keys(not to be confused with SHSH blobs) doesn't matter, still can jailbreak.

    Vast differences.
    Conspiracy to commit mass murder IS A CRIME and therefore it is ILLEGAL. However, that requires a whole lot more than simply releasing instructions on how to build a weapon. Again, The Anarchist Cookbook is a prime example of this. It's perfectly legal to publish, sell, and own such a book that instructs a user on how to build explosives and all that cute stuff. Free speech doesn't just protect the noble parts of society.

    Krosis already pointed out the answer regarding the "what ifs" topic.

    And no, the PS3 DOES NOT REQUIRE THESE KEYS TO BE JAILBROKEN. If so, could you please explain to me how earlier versions of the OS were jailbroken prior to GeoHot distributing the root keys?

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    mortopher-

    This is no different than running freeboot on the xbox 360.

    You should really read as much information on this as you can as you'll soon find out this isn't as much about piracy as you think and it certainly isn't about copyright on those keys. It is because he circumvented the security protocols on the system and ran unsigned code on it. Plain and simple. If he wouldn't have bragged about it or posted the keys then Sony wouldn't have known.

    I don't think is matters what Sony thinks about those keys because: they belong to the licensee(end user) when they purchase their system since those keys are stored on the individual system, and anyone who spent time hacking it like geohot did and had the skills would eventually uncover them anyway.

    What irked them appears to be that he bragged about it so they are trying to make him an example.

    As of right now it doesn't appear that Sony has any way of knowing if your system is rooted unless you're actually running unsigned code while online that would trip some kind of alerts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-z17 View Post
    This is getting soo ridiculous, it just blows my mind. Just leave the guy alone and let us do what we will to the devices we bought!
    This goes beyond letting us do what we will with the things we bought. People in masses are using this exploit to steal software. Sony needs to step up and make a statement on pirating software given the issues with the PSP. Over 80% of users with a PSP pirate software, which is a huge issue as publishers don't want to make games for it anymore, and with this exploit, that is the direction the PS3 is headed. I for one still want games to play for my system, and companies will pull support if everyone and their mother use this exploit.

    It sucks that George is getting caught in the cross-fire, but it's not as if he's innocent in this whole thing. Just like any other individual or company who develops an exploit or software to avoid security and aid in the use of others breaking the law, he's not exempt.

    The key issue is PIRACY, not unlocking your system to install Linux.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryuuza View Post

    The key issue is PIRACY, not unlocking your system to install Linux.
    You couldn't be more wrong. It isn't about piracy. It's about using the system in an unauthorized way. The software geohot ran on his PS3 after hacking it wasn't pirated software.

    Please read the details of the trial before posting next time. Thanks.

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    For those thinking Boycotting Sony will do any good, as it has been stated many times, they won't feel it. If you want a good place to start though, Boycott Playstation/PSP/bluray/games/etc and get the rest of the gaming community in on it. Kill their gaming platforms and they WILL feel it. PS3 already had trouble selling, so it wouldn't be a huge undertaking. If they want their game to stay locked, so be it,, in a cardboard box on a shelf!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sryuuza View Post
    Just like any other individual or company who develops an exploit or software to avoid security and aid in the use of others breaking the law, he's not exempt.
    Furthermore, this "exploit" as you call it which isn't really an exploit at all isn't illegal. The actual code he posted is ON YOUR PS3. You just haven't found it but he did.

    Exploit: "An exploit (from the same word in the French language, meaning "achievement", or "accomplishment") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised). This frequently includes such things as gaining control of a computer system or allowing privilege escalation or a denial of service attack."

    Plus, Sony could have just issued a patch that would prevent the running of this code or changed the keys and required users to update. They chose the road less traveled(less traveled for a reason).

    Lastly, this won't stop people from pirating games nor did it start the piracy movement of PS3 games. PS3 games were being pirated en masse before this was released.

    PS2 games have been pirated since day 1 when people realized you could use the latch card and boot disc to get the system to boot up and then run pirated games, PAL discs, etc. on it.

    PS2, PS3, Xbox 360, etc. in the end are all just computers just like iPhones, Droids, BlackBerry smartphones, etc. and are all able to be hacked depending on the desire of the person doing the hacking.

    We have been running unsigned code on our PCs, Macs, iPhones, etc. since long before this came into the news but it never made headlines if there was a huge lawsuit over it because manufacturers know that it's all part of doing business and they issue a patch which temporarily disables or an update which renders ineffective until the next version gets hacked.

    It has been, and always will be, a game of cat and mouse.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14u2nv View Post
    For those thinking Boycotting Sony will do any good, as it has been stated many times, they won't feel it. If you want a good place to start though, Boycott Playstation/PSP/bluray/games/etc and get the rest of the gaming community in on it. Kill their gaming platforms and they WILL feel it. PS3 already had trouble selling, so it wouldn't be a huge undertaking. If they want their game to stay locked, so be it,, in a cardboard box on a shelf!!
    The problem is they have their hands in everything.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthBravo View Post
    The problem is they have their hands in everything.
    Including many entertainment industry items. Sony is intertwind into things far beyond hardware.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by feidhlim1986 View Post
    Everyone chas access to a photocopier.
    Everyone has access to knives.
    Everyone has access to matches.

    Very very few people possess the skills to hack a device to enable jailbreaking it.
    (not talking clicking buttons on PwnageTool)

    All those other real world cases you mentioned get punishment. Digital Piracy however escapes punishment, except in very rare cases.
    My point was that it's the crime itself that is punished, not possession of the tool that can potentially be used for it. We punish people who counterfeit, not just for owning a copier. We punish people for battery, not for owning a knife. We punish people for arson, not for owning matches. And we should punish people for piracy, not for jailbreaking.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexevo View Post
    I don't think is matters what Sony thinks about those keys because: they belong to the licensee(end user) when they purchase their system since those keys are stored on the individual system, and anyone who spent time hacking it like geohot did and had the skills would eventually uncover them anyway.
    This is completely false and you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how asymmetric crypto systems work. The signing keys are not on the PS3, and even if they were, possession != ownership.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexevo View Post
    You couldn't be more wrong. It isn't about piracy. It's about using the system in an unauthorized way. The software geohot ran on his PS3 after hacking it wasn't pirated software.

    Please read the details of the trial before posting next time. Thanks.
    Sony doesn't care too much what software he ran on his PS3 (they shipped it with the ability to run Linux you know..) Its about what he distributed. You should really read some of the details yourself. The case docket is linked in the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexevo View Post
    Furthermore, this "exploit" as you call it which isn't really an exploit at all isn't illegal. The actual code he posted is ON YOUR PS3. You just haven't found it but he did.
    Again, this is false.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexevo View Post
    Plus, Sony could have just issued a patch that would prevent the running of this code or changed the keys and required users to update. They chose the road less traveled(less traveled for a reason).

    We have been running unsigned code on our PCs, Macs, iPhones, etc. since long before this came into the news but it never made headlines if there was a huge lawsuit over it because manufacturers know that it's all part of doing business and they issue a patch which temporarily disables or an update which renders ineffective until the next version gets hacked.

    It has been, and always will be, a game of cat and mouse.
    Asymmetric crypto systems do not work that way. If Sony decided to start using a new signing key, every single PS3 game that exists would need to be re-signed with the new key and re-released. This isn't just a firmware update. That's what makes this fundamentally different than if he just released a jailbreak. Allowing individual machines to be modified to run unsigned code is very different from allowing anyone to sign code. Mac and Win don't generally require code to be signed anyway, and none of the other systems have had their signing keys released. I guarantee you, if this had happened to Apple, they'd be the ones suing him right now.
    Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible. -- M.C. Escher
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. -- D.J. Boorstin

  12. #212
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    if i pay for it, its mine.

    sony should have just kept their mouth shut like all the other major companys.

    geohot hacks the iphone, does apple be a little b*t*h and sue him ??

  13. #213
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    I think Geohot did a great job explaining why he was being sued on AoTS, and the answer still stands to the ridiculous demands by Sony for his IP address and Paypal records... Why? He's "Making Sony mad."
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  14. #214
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    Good luck bro!! I sold my ps3 because of this s@&t. Great mug shot by the way!!!!


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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi1unome View Post
    Good luck bro!! I sold my ps3 because of this s@&t. Great mug shot by the way!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using ModMyi
    Because selling your already purchased Sony device really sticks it to them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mortopher View Post
    Because selling your already purchased Sony device really sticks it to them!
    My point is I won't be buying anymore Sony related products(I.e games)for my ps3 as I no longer own it.That is my way of "sticking it to them" by not spending anymore money that would end up in there pocket smart arse.


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  17. #217
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    I too will never purchase a sony product again. And if i have any say in the matter, neither will anyone i know.

    Does anyone know what the extent of the consequences/damages Geohot is facing? What does sony want from him?

  18. #218
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    All they want to do is make an example of him and out out that i u hack ull be sued and they arnt affroid of ruining their business.

  19. #219
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    (Sony=giant whiny b1tch)

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    Ahhhhh so much arguing on this topic!!!

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