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Thread: Sony Dishes Out 'Lifetime Ban' to Known Hackers

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Truckerbear View Post
    Well to get around this just means more sales for them. Buy two of every device. One that will get banned and one that will not. Two of everything.

    This won't stop the diehard jailbreakers. Hacking to me means doing illegal things with the device, jailbreaking mean doing things that aren't illegal but make the device better without hurting anyones bottom line.
    I put it to you that 80 percent of people who consider themselves to be hackers, are nothing of the sort. If you had to read instructions to jailbreak your stuff - You are absolutely NOT a hacker. You are a piggybacker. Geohot - Hacker. Saurik - Hacker. Chronic Dev - Hackers. We are end users, using dumbed down tools that the real hackers have provided to us so we dont break our sh!t trying to copy them.

    Hackers (for the most part) are an honorable bunch. But in the hands of the end users, freeloaders and the like, these tools are making the scene die a very slow, very public, death. Jailbreaking does indeed do alot of great things to add features that we would not have had before. Hell, without jailbreaking the iphone would lose to the PRE as far as functionality is concerned (Long live WEBOS!) But because the piracy is part of the territory of jailbreaking, It just cant work. Maybe in a perfect world where people actually cared about mainting a profitable ecosystem for all parties involved, jailbreaking would be a good thing. But in our world, the noble intentions of the few are COMPLETELY drowned out by the crowd of dirtbags stealing and cheating their way through the door.
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  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by cpkirkley View Post
    I put it to you that 80 percent of people who consider themselves to be hackers, are nothing of the sort. If you had to read instructions to jailbreak your stuff - You are absolutely NOT a hacker. You are a piggybacker. Geohot - Hacker. Saurik - Hacker. Chronic Dev - Hackers. We are end users, using dumbed down tools that the real hackers have provided to us so we dont break our sh!t trying to copy them.

    Hackers (for the most part) are an honorable bunch. But in the hands of the end users, freeloaders and the like, these tools are making the scene die a very slow, very public, death. Jailbreaking does indeed do alot of great things to add features that we would not have had before. Hell, without jailbreaking the iphone would lose to the PRE as far as functionality is concerned (Long live WEBOS!) But because the piracy is part of the territory of jailbreaking, It just cant work. Maybe in a perfect world where people actually cared about mainting a profitable ecosystem for all parties involved, jailbreaking would be a good thing. But in our world, the noble intentions of the few are COMPLETELY drowned out by the crowd of dirtbags stealing and cheating their way through the door.
    Hackers are hackers whether they are the ones that developed the hacking program or not. They are still participating in hacking a device or console, so by definition, they are hackers. People like geohot are considered program developers. Just like how car manufacturers like Toyota are car developers and people who use their product are drivers. Just because a certain driver did not develop the car doesn't mean they are not a driver. People who use a hacking program that is not developed by them are hackers, just like how people who use a car that is not developed by them are drivers.

  3. #123
    WTF?? you can't and you won't ever be able to stop people from hacking/jailbreaking. Running software on anything is a double edge sword, it just depends if your pointing your blade at the opponent or yourself.
    Last edited by elite_jounin; 02-19-2011 at 03:06 PM.

  4. #124
    Livin the iPhone Life sziklassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-z17 View Post
    Lol I know, I never said they made money, just that its supporting them by buying their product. My point was that you already have a good working console and it would suck to have to get a new one (spend money) just cause they ban you
    I understand. I guess my point is that it doesn;t matter to them that you are "supporting" them if they aren't making money off you. I can run around with a shirt that says "I support Sony" all day long. If I buy a single $00.99 game off the PS store, that will please them more than my so called "support". That's all I was trying to say.

    Let's not also forget that being that they are making these bans official, Sony has certainly calculated what percentage of those that were banned are likely to go out and buy a new console and keep it "clean". Microsoft has gone down this path with their original XBOX. There is plenty of data out there for Sony to make some decently accurate estimates.

    The bottom line still is that they are potentially hurting their legitimate market. Pirates won;t care less. "So what if I am banned? I am getting free games LOLOLOLOL". THAT is the mentality here. Banning people isn't going to stop piracy in the least...
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  5. #125
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    If, How can apple ban users from jailbreaking?
    Nothing in life is easy.

  6. #126
    Steve is watching YOU. He knows what you are DOING. He can SEE you. Of course he can ban you. There will be a picture of you in every Apple Store, with a big text below it saying, BANNED. iTunes will refuse to connect to your device. Your iPhone will get hotter and hotter in your hand until it.... suddenly... bursts into flames. Everyone will know your shame. Ahhh, the humanity!!!
    Senior

  7. #127
    Sony = So not yours?
    Seriously they don't understand why we hack and why we jailbreak, only this will make us buy. What a *** company .. Full of Craps.
    Thanks to Sony and now apple is gonna copy you. Hope Geohot will win the lawsuit against sony!
    Last edited by cheesehotdog; 02-19-2011 at 04:55 PM.

  8. #128
    Geohot is asking for donations! legal trouble
    Lets help him out. It's the fight for our rights.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by skolpo View Post
    Hackers are hackers whether they are the ones that developed the hacking program or not. They are still participating in hacking a device or console, so by definition, they are hackers. People like geohot are considered program developers. Just like how car manufacturers like Toyota are car developers and people who use their product are drivers. Just because a certain driver did not develop the car doesn't mean they are not a driver. People who use a hacking program that is not developed by them are hackers, just like how people who use a car that is not developed by them are drivers.
    We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one - I refuse to acknowledge the 13 year old who spammed the forums with "OMG i jus bot a i4 how does i jalebreakkzzz" a hacker. Just can't do it.

    edit - @sziklassy - Banning wont stop the pirates, nothing ever does. But it will help to curb and discourage the cheaters that are ruining stuff for people who don't even understand whats happening. It will alienate many, yes. But frankly, since I'm not ever jailbreaking any of my consoles (much like 95 percent of the other console users out there) - I could care less at this point. Non jailbreakers pay money just like you do - they deserve to have as fulfilling an experience playing games without fear of running into these random death zones that make them think their consoles/controllers are broken.
    Last edited by cpkirkley; 02-19-2011 at 10:29 PM.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by sziklassy View Post
    I understand. I guess my point is that it doesn;t matter to them that you are "supporting" them if they aren't making money off you. I can run around with a shirt that says "I support Sony" all day long. If I buy a single $00.99 game off the PS store, that will please them more than my so called "support". That's all I was trying to say.

    Let's not also forget that being that they are making these bans official, Sony has certainly calculated what percentage of those that were banned are likely to go out and buy a new console and keep it "clean". Microsoft has gone down this path with their original XBOX. There is plenty of data out there for Sony to make some decently accurate estimates.

    The bottom line still is that they are potentially hurting their legitimate market. Pirates won;t care less. "So what if I am banned? I am getting free games LOLOLOLOL". THAT is the mentality here. Banning people isn't going to stop piracy in the least...
    Gotcha!

  11. #131
    iPhone? More like MyPhone James360Petty's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure you guys are missing something fundamental..... I Jailbreak my device and it makes yours unusable!!! Is that fair? Is that acceptable? It seems to be the general consensus that this is acceptable. Modding your PS3 to cheat online is completely different than Jailbreaking an idevice..... think about what your asking for!

    The responsibility should be with the devs that produce these games but seems like there not interested once they have their money.... so Sony has stepped in!!!

    I for one support the crack down......

  12. #132
    Guys,

    Please donate to Geohots legal defense fund which he has setup within the past 24 hrs due to high legal costs.

    This isn't only about Geohot...it is about our consumer rights and about the products that we FULLY own after paying full price for it. Not all JB users engage in piracy...

    I have donated and many others have from the PSX-scene. Even if you can't donate, spread the word on facebook, myspace etc.

    This might turn out to be a landmark case!

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpkirkley View Post
    I put it to you that 80 percent of people who consider themselves to be hackers, are nothing of the sort. If you had to read instructions to jailbreak your stuff - You are absolutely NOT a hacker. You are a piggybacker. Geohot - Hacker. Saurik - Hacker. Chronic Dev - Hackers. We are end users, using dumbed down tools that the real hackers have provided to us so we dont break our sh!t trying to copy them.

    Hackers (for the most part) are an honorable bunch. But in the hands of the end users, freeloaders and the like, these tools are making the scene die a very slow, very public, death. Jailbreaking does indeed do alot of great things to add features that we would not have had before. Hell, without jailbreaking the iphone would lose to the PRE as far as functionality is concerned (Long live WEBOS!) But because the piracy is part of the territory of jailbreaking, It just cant work. Maybe in a perfect world where people actually cared about mainting a profitable ecosystem for all parties involved, jailbreaking would be a good thing. But in our world, the noble intentions of the few are COMPLETELY drowned out by the crowd of dirtbags stealing and cheating their way through the door.

    It looks as if you dont know what the term "hacker" actually means

    Hacker - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


    Hacker-One that hacks

    Last time I checked, jailbreaking the PS3 is a hack. So if I am jailbreaking my PS3 that means I am hacking it, which makes me a hacker, regardless of whether or not I found the exploit and made the jailbreak
    GEOHOT VS. SONY- A FREAKING EPIC BLOG


    iHack iDevices

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  14. #134
    Livin the iPhone Life sziklassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpkirkley View Post
    We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one - I refuse to acknowledge the 13 year old who spammed the forums with "OMG i jus bot a i4 how does i jalebreakkzzz" a hacker. Just can't do it.

    edit - @sziklassy - Banning wont stop the pirates, nothing ever does. But it will help to curb and discourage the cheaters that are ruining stuff for people who don't even understand whats happening. It will alienate many, yes. But frankly, since I'm not ever jailbreaking any of my consoles (much like 95 percent of the other console users out there) - I could care less at this point. Non jailbreakers pay money just like you do - they deserve to have as fulfilling an experience playing games without fear of running into these random death zones that make them think their consoles/controllers are broken.
    So ban hackers (cheaters). Problem solved. They are making a blanket statement saying that modding = ability to hack = we don't want you. It's still a wrong statement to make IMO. Ban people with modded systems once they have been reported for hacking. If someone gets reported for hacking and doesn't have a modded system, clearly that report is falsified. Wouldn't be that hard to implement at all. Sony is clearly hiding behind the "we want to keep gaming fun and hacker/cheater free" slogan and is really after the pirates. Do you REALLY think they are suing George to "protect the rights of their online gamers and keep cheaters away from them?" Anyone that does is simply delusional.

    BTW, regardless of how you define a hacker, the point is, even that 14 year old, with instructions, is able to circumvent (or hack) protections set forth by Sony, Apple, or whoever it may be. After that is done, he/she has successfully hacked the device.

    Here is a definition of what a hacker is in today's terms:
    Today, mainstream usage of “hacker” mostly refers to computer criminals, due to the mass media usage of the word since the 1980s. This includes what hacker slang calls “script kiddies,” people breaking into computers using programs written by others, with very little knowledge about the way they work. This usage has become so predominant that the general public is unaware that different meanings exist. While the self-designation of hobbyists as hackers is acknowledged by all three kinds of hackers, and the computer security hackers accept all uses of the word, people from the programmer subculture consider the computer intrusion related usage incorrect, and emphasize the difference between the two by calling to security breakers “crackers” (analogous to a safecracker).
    Last edited by sziklassy; 02-20-2011 at 11:30 AM.
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  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by kraziebone View Post
    This would be a mistake for Apple to do. People love the iPhone but more than any other technology, it definitely has some major limitations that are unavoidable without jailbreaking. The core jailbreaking community would likely move on
    The number if folks who jailbreak is very small in comparison to the vast numbers who don't or wouldn't care one way or another (myself). If Apple somehow figured out how to really lock iOS down, I suspect it would still sell in mass quantities and Apple's stock would continue to climb.

    On the other hand, if Apple simply stopped trying to stop the jb community, it would be like signaling defeat. Their stock would take a hit. They'd also have many more issues to deal with on their support lines as they could no longer dismiss a unit that is jb'd. As it stands now, if someone wants to take a jb'd unit in for service you have to 1st restore to an authorized build, correct?

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by sziklassy View Post
    So ban hackers (cheaters). Problem solved. They are making a blanket statement saying that modding = ability to hack = we don't want you. It's still a wrong statement to make IMO. Ban people with modded systems once they have been reported for hacking. If someone gets reported for hacking and doesn't have a modded system, clearly that report is falsified. Wouldn't be that hard to implement at all. Sony is clearly hiding behind the "we want to keep gaming fun and hacker/cheater free" slogan and is really after the pirates. Do you REALLY think they are suing George to "protect the rights of their online gamers and keep cheaters away from them?" Anyone that does is simply delusional.

    BTW, regardless of how you define a hacker, the point is, even that 14 year old, with instructions, is able to circumvent (or hack) protections set forth by Sony, Apple, or whoever it may be. After that is done, he/she has successfully hacked the device.

    Here is a definition of what a hacker is in today's terms:
    Today, mainstream usage of “hacker” mostly refers to computer criminals, due to the mass media usage of the word since the 1980s. This includes what hacker slang calls “script kiddies,” people breaking into computers using programs written by others, with very little knowledge about the way they work. This usage has become so predominant that the general public is unaware that different meanings exist. While the self-designation of hobbyists as hackers is acknowledged by all three kinds of hackers, and the computer security hackers accept all uses of the word, people from the programmer subculture consider the computer intrusion related usage incorrect, and emphasize the difference between the two by calling to security breakers “crackers” (analogous to a safecracker).
    I never said that Sony Lawsuit is only to protect the consumers, believe me I know that we are the last people in their minds regarding this issue.

    Also, sure, just banning the cheaters and pirates would be great - except for one question? How do you singlethem? The paintbrush being used here is wide because it has to be. Party 1, who jailbreaks just to have some different XMB icons or Other OS is using the same CFW that Party 2, the jailbreaker who has 31 pirated games loading off an external drive he has hooked to his system. Their roommates. Sony does not, can not, and will not differentiate between the two. Its not their job to. Any person running custom firmware is CAPABLE of doing something illegal (technically they already are by default) with the console. Now I'm saying that it is right - but both systems are going to be banned. If they come out with a way to separate the two, then fine, but then someone comeout with a way to spoof the checker, and Sony is back to square one.

    If I were in the same position (protecting my profit margins), frankly I would do the same thing. Its a wise business decision, regardless of how many people who want to jailbreak are going to disagree. We, the technologically informed, are in the vast minority when it comes to a numbers standpoint - this conversation might represent as much as 12-13 percent of PS3's target demographic, and as little as 4. This topic will never cross the lips of most people who bought and buy Sony's products, for no other reason than wanting to play LBP, Uncharted and God of War.

    Succinctly put (and paraphrased), "the needs of the many...". Its not up to Sony to read the hearts and minds of its customers - its their job to provide a relatively consistent level of service to the greatest number of its customers. And its their job to make money. Since jailbreakers are not, nor will they ever be that greatest number, Jailbreaking will lose. Since the prospect of digital IP theft is so large, keeping in mind that Software is really the only area where sony make money in this division of their company, Jailbreaking will lose.

    Might make you piss yourself in anger, but its the right play on both fronts.
    Last edited by cpkirkley; 02-20-2011 at 12:51 PM.
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  17. #137
    thank god I have a xbox(:
    no fanboy **** but LT firmware

  18. #138
    Sony's pathetic
    "We don't need bullets, We need Pie's"

  19. #139
    Green Apple INeed2Know's Avatar
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    Maybe one day Nintendo will learn how many people pirate the Wii with ease. But they'll probably move on to making new protected consoles instead of fixing the problem.


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  20. #140
    Green Apple INeed2Know's Avatar
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    Cheating on the other hand is completely fine because it's fun!


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