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Thread: Thanks to iPad, Apple is Now #3 in PC Sales

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I've never seen a PC that had to be activated BY another PC and required you to connect TO a PC to download software updates before. In fact I don't
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  1. #41
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    I've never seen a PC that had to be activated BY another PC and required you to connect TO a PC to download software updates before.

    In fact I don't think I saw a single reference to the iPad as a "Personal Computer" on Apple's website. But it does say you need a PC to use it though. Doesn't take a genius to put two and two together.

    Case and point.....not a true PC.....it just shares aspects of PCs just like many other devices.

    Get over it! It's not a PC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sziklassy View Post
    LOL what? Why is the iPad (or any tablet) being considered a pc?

    The main difference is primary use. iPad is a device made for consumption. A PC, for production. There really is not argument here. Try and PRODUCE something on iPad as elegantly as you would on a desktop/laptop. It simply isn't going to happen. Next we will consider big screen TVs with web apps built in a PC sale... I mean they are over 7 inches and have the computing power, right?
    I use my ipad for all my school stuff... thats pretty productive

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    Quote Originally Posted by RICO_ View Post
    I've never seen a PC that had to be activated BY another PC and required you to connect TO a PC to download software updates before.

    In fact I don't think I saw a single reference to the iPad as a "Personal Computer" on Apple's website. But it does say you need a PC to use it though. Doesn't take a genius to put two and two together.

    Case and point.....not a true PC.....it just shares aspects of PCs just like many other devices.

    Get over it! It's not a PC.
    I bought my first IBM computer x86 (PC with no CD drive) back in 1990(20 years ago), which has less computing or functioning power than an iPad. It still works. Should I not call it a PC any more?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmejunkie View Post
    I use my ipad for all my school stuff... thats pretty productive
    Sire it can be used for that

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    Good for kids too

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    Two things:

    1) The historical definition of a PC was a computer that was small enough for personal use, contrasted with larger mainframe systems. These computers didn't have CD-ROMs, Internet access, or GUIs. In recent times, this term was alternatively used to mean "IBM PC-compatible" to contrast with Apple's Mac. Some people seem to be confusing it with "that thing thats sitting in my desk right now, and all of its current features and loaded software". I'm not sure where that definition comes from, but it seems influenced by retailers like Best Buy. You won't find Apple's website telling you that an iPad is a PC, but they don't tell you a Mac is one either. They had years of TV commercials trying to make just that distinction.

    2) Everyone seems to be getting way too caught up in the definition of a PC, and completely missing the point of the report. If you can look past or just ignore that for a moment, and engage in this thought experiment:

    If we group the iPad as a consumer computer in the same category as existing PCs, we see that Apples market share in general, and growth in particular, have massively larger numbers than when considered alone.

    That's the point they're making. They're not saying that an iPad is a PC (or that it even matters). They're not saying you can't also look at desktop or laptop sales separately, or that you can't compare Windows to Mac. They're just saying that there is enough overlap in these products and their use that from a market analysis perspective (that's who this is written for btw, it's not a weekly sales flyer) there is reason to also consider a view where these products compete with one another.

    Do you guys really feel that iPads and PCs (however you define that) are such completely different products without any overlap that nobody would ever be faced with the possibility of buying one rather than the other? Why such hostility to seeing the sales numbers compared that you have to attack the very idea of comparing them?
    Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible. -- M.C. Escher
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    Quote Originally Posted by x98car View Post
    Good for kids too
    I agree

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    Dont get me wrong...i know this is an apple forum but the only reason apple sales are so high is due to the iphone and ipad. Their computers are to fragile, and the os is meant for people who dont know how to use a computer. They treat their customers like children. Let's not even mention price issues. The mobile devices are great! You cant find another device that can do a fraction of the things they can,nor the accessory base. But, it ends there. The laptops and desktops are a joke. When someone tells me they own a mac it tells me one of two things about a person: 1 they are computer illiterates, or 2 they are into graphic design. Either way it doesnt instill alot of confidence upon their intelligence. Real compiter users will atleast run windows or the serious ones like myself who arent afraid use unix. Hell even linux(this is a joke os too but better than apple's option) would be an improvement. I shake my head at the idiots using bootcamp to run windows or linux on a mac. Kinda wasted alot of money and for what? A pretty apple inscribed on the lid and hardware issues? Ha! Those are folks with more money than sense.

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    Also since when is apple a pc? One of the difining characteristics of a pc is windows. Are you telling me apple makes a windows 7 ipad now? Hahahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by garylin View Post
    I bought my first IBM computer x86 (PC with no CD drive) back in 1990(20 years ago), which has less computing or functioning power than an iPad. It still works. Should I not call it a PC any more?
    When did I ever mention anything about CD drives or computing power? Did you have to activate your IBM computer by connecting it to a PROGRAM on another computer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RICO_ View Post
    Did you have to activate your IBM computer by connecting it to a PROGRAM on another computer?
    Actually Apple will be happy to activate it for you in store, and you'll never need to hook it up to a computer again.

    The irony of course being your profile says you use Windows Vista, which is Microsoft's second OS to require activation by connecting to a program on another computer. Assuming you're not into software piracy of course.
    Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible. -- M.C. Escher
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfatboy View Post
    Also since when is apple a pc? One of the difining characteristics of a pc is windows. Are you telling me apple makes a windows 7 ipad now? Hahahahaha
    Oh you fail so much

    One of the difining characteristics of a pc is windows.
    Really? What about Linux or other UNIX based OS's?
    Your even using a Unix system yourself!

    Also since when is an apple mac a pc?
    Including all the words in a sentence makes it easer to understand.

    Hahahahaha
    Yes, hahahahaha, your post did make me laugh.
    Last edited by spazturtle; 01-28-2011 at 11:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krosis View Post
    Actually Apple will be happy to activate it for you in store, and you'll never need to hook it up to a computer again.

    The irony of course being your profile says you use Windows Vista, which is Microsoft's second OS to require activation by connecting to a program on another computer. Assuming you're not into software piracy of course.
    And what does Apple connect it to to activate it?.......one of their iMac computers of course! Wow...who would've known!

    How does Vista require secondary computer activation. I bought my desktop and it was ready to go when I turned it on. Last I remember I didn't plug it into anything except the Internet. And by the way Vista is an OPERATING SYSTEM.....not a computer. So how does that bare any relevance?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICO_ View Post
    And what does Apple connect it to to activate it?.......one of their iMac computers of course! Wow...who would've known!

    How does Vista require secondary computer activation. I bought my desktop and it was ready to go when I turned it on. Last I remember I didn't plug it into anything except the Internet. And by the way Vista is an OPERATING SYSTEM.....not a computer. So how does that bare any relevance?
    It bears relevance because you implied external activation, among other things, somehow makes something not a computer. Windows connects to another computer (Microsoft's activation server) to activate itself after an install. A selection of OEMs are able to bypass this with a SLP key for new hardware, but it you re-install it you'll still need to activate. Here's more information on it if you really don't believe me: Windows Product Activation. If you really want to make the point that Windows, not the physical computer, is what requires activation, then you should consider that iOS, not the iPad hardware is what requires activation.

    You can't just make a laundry list of specific features that apply to the computer on your desk as it is right now, and say that anything that doesn't match those specific conditions isn't a computer.

    Well you can, but it doesn't matter because this analysis doesn't depend on what you call them.
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    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. -- D.J. Boorstin

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    Quote Originally Posted by krosis View Post
    It bears relevance because you implied external activation, among other things, somehow makes something not a computer. Windows connects to another computer (Microsoft's activation server) to activate itself after an install. A selection of OEMs are able to bypass this with a SLP key for new hardware, but it you re-install it you'll still need to activate. Here's more information on it if you really don't believe me: Windows Product Activation. If you really want to make the point that Windows, not the physical computer, is what requires activation, then you should consider that iOS, not the iPad hardware is what requires activation.

    You can't just make a laundry list of specific features that apply to the computer on your desk as it is right now, and say that anything that doesn't match those specific conditions isn't a computer.

    Well you can, but it doesn't matter because this analysis doesn't depend on what you call them.
    Well theoretically I get your point, but doesn't a computer server serve a different overall task than a personal computer? It's not the computer that activates the iPad, but rather a program that has to be installed on the computer in order to activate the iPad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RICO_ View Post
    Well theoretically I get your point, but doesn't a computer server serve a different overall task than a personal computer? It's not the computer that activates the iPad, but rather a program that has to be installed on the computer in order to activate the iPad.
    It does serve a different purpose, and wouldn't actually be considered a PC by the original use of the term. But chances are good that it runs on similar hardware and software that you'd find in a PC. So is it hardware or software that makes a PC? (It's actually neither).

    If I have a PC with Windows installed on it, and I activate IIS and serve web pages, is it no longer a PC? What if I install Linux and run it as a network router and fileserver without a monitor? Is it still a PC? If I SSH into it an browse a website with lynx does it become a PC again? What about if I take it and hook it up to my TV as a HTPC, and it's only used to play media, is it a PC then? If I install a game on it does it become a PC again? How about a web browser? Is Microsoft Office the defining characteristic that would turn it back into a PC? How about a public PC that's been locked down to prevent modification? Is it a PC to the owner, but not a PC to the public users? If I take my iPhone and shoot, edit, and upload a movie from it, is it now a PC because it created content? If I install android on it so it doesn't need to be activated with iTunes, does that turn it into a PC? What about the new Motorola Atrix android phone that lets you dock it with a keyboard / monitor / mouse and run an embedded copy of Linux with a full Firefox desktop browser. Is that a PC now? Only some of the time maybe?

    I could go on and on like that, but I hope I made the point that it's not always a clear distinction. Originally a PC was a "portable" computer that an individual could use to run their own software. In the last several years we've seen more and more devices take on those characteristics. Excluding them from being called PCs just because they don't share arbitrary characteristics doesn't serve any purpose that I can see other than to impair future insights and discoveries in the computer field.
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    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. -- D.J. Boorstin

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    Quote Originally Posted by krosis View Post
    It does serve a different purpose, and wouldn't actually be considered a PC by the original use of the term. But chances are good that it runs on similar hardware and software that you'd find in a PC. So is it hardware or software that makes a PC? (It's actually neither).

    If I have a PC with Windows installed on it, and I activate IIS and serve web pages, is it no longer a PC? What if I install Linux and run it as a network router and fileserver without a monitor? Is it still a PC? If I SSH into it an browse a website with lynx does it become a PC again? What about if I take it and hook it up to my TV as a HTPC, and it's only used to play media, is it a PC then? If I install a game on it does it become a PC again? How about a web browser? Is Microsoft Office the defining characteristic that would turn it back into a PC? How about a public PC that's been locked down to prevent modification? Is it a PC to the owner, but not a PC to the public users? If I take my iPhone and shoot, edit, and upload a movie from it, is it now a PC because it created content? If I install android on it so it doesn't need to be activated with iTunes, does that turn it into a PC? What about the new Motorola Atrix android phone that lets you dock it with a keyboard / monitor / mouse and run an embedded copy of Linux with a full Firefox desktop browser. Is that a PC now? Only some of the time maybe?

    I could go on and on like that, but I hope I made the point that it's not always a clear distinction. Originally a PC was a "portable" computer that an individual could use to run their own software. In the last several years we've seen more and more devices take on those characteristics. Excluding them from being called PCs just because they don't share arbitrary characteristics doesn't serve any purpose that I can see other than to impair future insights and discoveries in the computer field.
    Wow. So how do we know the iPad is a PC then since there are so many variables that can define or un-define a PC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RICO_ View Post
    Wow. So how do we know the iPad is a PC then since there are so many variables that can define or un-define a PC?
    That's kind of my point. You can't use all of those variables to define or un-define a PC like most people in this thread seemed to want to do. By the classic definition, the iPad is a PC. But that doesn't really matter because what we call it isn't as important as the perspective that allows the analysis. You can call them all cupcakes. It doesn't really matter. There is an overlap in features and use scenarios, which makes the devices competitive at at least some level for some customers. As time goes on, that overlap will only broaden. That's why from a market analyst perspective it makes sense to include a comparison.

    Dismissing that by saying an iPad doesn't conform to some arbitrary definition of a PC is what I don't get.
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    So deciding whether the iPad is a PC is just a matter of perspective and opinion then. Too much grey area to decide. I guess that makes sense.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosis View Post
    That's an interesting comparison, since modern CPUs have mostly done away with anything that would have resembled a traditional north bridge, moving the functionality on core. This is done to a much greater extent in mobile processors to make what's called a System on Chip (SoC). Just because you condense the functionality to a single chip doesn't mean it isn't there anymore.

    Things will blur even more when Microsoft releases Windows 8 for ARM, and you've got the same operating system running on "PCs" and "Non-PCs". Is an ARM Windows 8 laptop no longer a PC because it has an integrated memory controller?
    I disagree that "things will blur even more", as Windows for mobile architectures is nothing new what so ever. Windows CE goes back over decade. There's also Windows XP Embedded, which is a stripped down version of XP designed to run on all sorts of compact/special hardware, such as thin clients, and I believe there are variants based on Vista or 7 iirc.

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