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Originally Posted by SnowLeo ^well i signed up for the beta and got free game and a year free membership. You can buy rent and demo the games by the
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    ^well i signed up for the beta and got free game and a year free membership. You can buy rent and demo the games by the way and play it on any computer, even a friggen netbook and run at full speed as long as you got a decent internet connection. Once they get that micro console you can hook it up with your tv and theyre building an iphone/ipad app. It might suck that you cant play games you already have on other systems but Im not renewing my microshit xbox live membership. I play splinter cell conviction (the game i got 4 free) and assassins creed (30% off july 4th sale and both games run on my 2 ghz late 2007 imac 20" way faster than my xbox 360 with virtually no latency.
    Hope your ISP doesn't care that you have that. I would imagine most people can't take advantage of it because of bandwidth throttling and data caps. You don't own the games either, unless they send you a physical copy if/when the go out of business you've paid to rent a game you don't actually own. If they gave me a physical copy I would think about it. But without actually owning the game on disc, I'd rather not get ripped off with low quality and slow games. It may be fast on a netbook but it looks like crap I bet. No thanks. I'll play real games on a PC that has the horsepower to display higher than 720p. Hell, a good gaming PC can be built for about 800 bucks and will smoke anything that OnLive could hope to be.

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    Theme Creator SnowLeo's Avatar
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    ^Are you serious? Okay so what if you dont have a goddamn physical copy. What goods a physical copy gonna do for you except get lost. I bet you sure dont complain about having a damn physical copy for iphone games. Besides it saves everything through the cloud so you can use it only any computer, tv (and eventually iphone).

    I have no idea where your getting this whole bad quality sh*t from also. Its the actual games with the actual developers with all of the the major game developers....except activision...yet. Onlive has huge servers throughout the country that do all the processing for you and send it to your computer screen in FULL RESOLUTION in 80 miliseconds which is far less latency than any xbox or pc out there. You can honestly run games with the resolution and shadow turned completely up and run it far better than any $1500 alienware on any computer or TV. Have you even visited the site or read anythin about it. Dont go trashing the best cloud gaming system thay will set the standards for gaming and what will be the future of video games unless you actually know anything about it.
    At&t was actually the main investor in onlive as well as many other companys as onlive is a very reputable company (bet At&t invested more in Onlive than they did in cell towers)

    The CEO of Onlive Steve Perlman actually worked at apple and played the leading role at developing quicktime which was the first attempt at adding videos to the web and completely changed web browsing (until adobe had to come along and take his ideas to ruin everyones computers with flash)

    heres some proof you can run the most graphic intense pc game, chrysis core on a craply laptop with all the res and graphics turned up: IGN Video: GDC 09: OnLive Video Demos PC Games - Crysis Running on Crappy Laptop

    Oh and sorry if you misunderstood me but you dont need any blazing fast internet connection it just has to be somewhat decent to stream it at uber speeds. Eventually you will even be able to use it over 3g although it would obviously have more latency and might just completely wipe out the remains of at&ts network. (oh wait... 2gb limit... those as*holes)

    Heres onlive on the ipad: YouTube - OnLive Demoed on an iPad
    Super sexy!! In fact Id only buy an ipad for onlive and slingbox. So I can stream tv and xbox games. For everything else... the ipad blows. Maybe ill read a magazine on it.... once there are magizines for ipad... aka never

  3. #23
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    maybe I finally will get an iMac ....

  4. #24
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    Gizmodo, the Gadget Guide

    Good but not great quality, I have the original copy of Half-Life with the box, and you don't have to pay $50 for an iPhone game. It's a great service if you play games in a day or two, they had a 16meg average dowload speed at home, and they could 'feel' a very slight bit of lag. I don't have lag on my xbox and MacBook pro, if valve or any other game publisher goes tits up I own a physical copy of the game and can play till the game disc is lost or too scratched up. It's a great service if you like bad quality (sometimes), an slight but not too worrisome lag to your games, and like paying for games you never really own. With the way ISPs are treating data these days, streaming anything is a difficult thing to get behind. Even a halfway decent gaming PC can be built for well under $1500, I don't know where you got that figure from what I said. Alienware isn't a good PC builder anyway, I can spend under half what they or any other boutique PC vendor charges and get the se speed. And you probably won't be able to play any game over 3G that you can't get a mobile version of. NO carrier will allow that. Ever.

    Onlive has five datacenters. What you've probably quoted is a very best ase scenario. Real world tests are going to be much lower if you aren't close to said datacenters, and compression is going to be real high. ISPs are NEVER going to allow them to transfer that much data without compression and they will charge out the *** for the customer to use said data.

    It may be a great deal to you, but with zero guarantee that I'll be able to play the games after this service flops, compressing the quality of video, and ISPs countrywide that are really stingy with speeds and caps it's no deal for me. I don't need someone else to render my games for me, and I sure won't pay them for a game I never own. If you can't keep track of where your expensive software discs are that's not a ding against the idea, not even close.

    Forgot to add, if I buy a PC game and finish it I can usually sell it for about half what I paid for it to someone else. Can't do that with onlive, or Steam for that matter. But Valve has shown time and again they are a company worth doing business with. I'll gladly pay Valve to play their games, but I always buy the box copy.
    Last edited by KartRacer; 07-05-2010 at 09:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    all this trash talk about onlive then you say youd gladly use steam? In case you didnt realize even though they claim to be cloud gaming steam makes you wait like 3 hours for games that are instant on onlive. But I really dont understand where gizmodo or you are getting this whole low quality graphics thing from because the games show up way better on onlive than on vmware fusion running windows 7 or even bootcamp for that matter as well as steam. And its not like I spent hundreds of dollars already on games for onlive. In fact I only paid $40 for 2 of the greatest games and a year free membership.
    Haha you think theyre gonna go bankrupt? Because thats the only way youd lose any of your stuff but might I remind you they have huge investments from at&t and tons of other companies as well as support from all the major developers. Once they get that microconsle and some advertising theyll be huge!

    Again you contridict yourself with the whole software disc thing. First you babble on about how keeping the software discs can help you keep track of your expenses when in reality they just get scratched and lost and screw you over. Then you go on to say you can sell them- how are they good at keeping track of your expenses if you sell them?
    Then you say youd pay steam for the game then pay again for the physical copy? If your cheap enough to try to sell your old games and hope to get half price why the hell would you pay twice for the same goddamn game when buying a game on onlive lets you use it on any computer or tv or iphone anywhere in the US.
    I really just dont understand what you can have against this. You read one sh*tty engadget review and pull a few things out of context and exaggerate them and you think you know everything about onlive. How about actually learning the facts?

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    ^Once you have it downloaded it's there for good numbnuts. If I can stream full resolution to my screen with no artifacts from the internet, then why the hell do I even have a computer instead of a tiny workstation "console"? Quit being an idiot. There's obviously a lot of lag, too much for something like a racing game. I can't even use VNC or Remote Desktop on my own lan at full resolution and framerate, let alone over the internet. Maybe you're living in 2030 though, who knows.
    Anybody want a 32GB Mint Condition Black JB Unlocked 3GS? PM me with offers.

  7. #27
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    no maybe you just refuse to accept the reality that cloud gaming allows you to use their gigantic servers to do all of the processing for you and play it back and full resolution.

    Whenever any thing great comes about theres always gotta be so many skeptics. Especially since these people refuse to accept that they spent rediculous amounts of money on a laptop specifically for gaming when thats no longer nessisary.

    For gods sake there is 80 miliseconds of latency which is rediculously amazing! Thats way better than youll ever get on your pc even look up any reviews or watch the actual videos of the demos that steve perlman shows and proves this technology.

    Even your buddy KartRacer's gizmodo article states that everything loads faster than they would have ever espected to a point where it seems natural and there are virtually no loading times. (sorry if I paraphrased and added a little steve jobs ["magicalness"] but you can read the article yourself)

    besides look at the micro consle compared to the xbox 360. Its about 1/4 the size 1/10 the weight and only needs one cable and the plastic cover costs more than the chips inside to play to same goddammn xbox games at the same resolution on your tv but so much faster. Look at their onlive controller- it only has microseconds of latency compared to microsofts xbox wireless xbox controllers that produce aweful latency that makes the games actually run signifigently slower. I swear to god plug in a wired xbox 360 controller disconnect the wireless ones and you will definitely notice a difference.
    But that just shows you that this company is capable of producing technology that will revolutionize gaming much the same as its CEO revolutionized the internet by allowing video to be played on it by developing quicktime
    Last edited by SnowLeo; 07-05-2010 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    80ms is high for me. I typically play online games full res at 30ms or below. Surely your latency for online games would be even higher due to you having to communicate with the OnLive server and then the game server?
    Me not having ownership of games sucks hard. With Steam, I buy my games once and in return I can play any time I want.
    Other than paying a subscription to have access to my games, requiring an internet connection to play a single player game (for instance) blows harder than anything I can think of (this is why I hate ubisofts DRM). But meh. Steam is extremely convenient to me and OnLive is not. OnLive would probably be ideal and cost effective for those who buy the latest games, play them once or twice and then never again. I don't do that. Many of the games I bought back in '06, '07, '08 I still play now and will continue to play for the foreseeable future - But I would absolutely detest having to continually pay for access to them.


    Also - lol, Xbox
    Last edited by dale1v; 07-06-2010 at 02:18 AM.

  9. #29
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    oh sorry i dont think 80 miliseconds is right lemme double check that. nope 80 miliseconds. Still seemed pretty damn fast to me.

    I still dont think you guys fully understand the service. with onlive you can BUY, rent, and demo the games. BUY as in permenantly have the game asI did with assassins creed 2 and splinter cell conviction

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    I'm strongly inclined to agree - if I'm going to pay money for a game, I'm not going to rent it, or limit myself to playing it purely while online - I want to be able to go back at any time, pick out any one of my old games and play it.

    As for physical installation media, anything I place a high value on I have backed up either on a second CD/DVD, or as a disk image on the computer. Additionally 80ms lag merely on the connection between me and the game itself is not acceptable - lag *between* copies of the game in multiplayer is one thing as the games are designed to compensate and predict that to a certain degree, but lag between the player and the game represents a real problem when it comes to anything fast paced with a lot going on and is another reason why cloud gaming is not ready for prime time yet.

    And final thought - what happens when the internet connection is being used for other things? I don't want to stop using my internet whilst gaming because it stops me playing even single player games - again, not acceptable.

    edit: And yep, their technical FAQ indicates very clear that it does not play nice with much more beyond basic web browsing in the background.

    Simple version: I own my games, I can play them when I want, wherever I want, online or not, anything else is a step backwards
    Last edited by madon; 07-06-2010 at 06:12 AM.

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    you can play it on any computer, any tv, or any ipod touch/ iphone (soon) anywhere you have any crappy internet connection whether its being used for something else or not and get virtually the same latency and have all of yoyr saves and everything thats done through the cloud.

    You guys are getting too hung up with the actual specs of the latency but 80 miliseceonds is actually the fastest that the human eye can actually render. if you guys hook up a wireless xbox controller to computer it would create signifigent latency compared to their controller that produces virtually no
    latency

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    Erm, milliseconds are a measurement of time, not rendering, and the 80 you're giving is most definitely a best case scenario and as with anything else streaming HD video is going to suffer as soon as anything interferes with that latency, and not "any crappy internet connection", they give 5mbit as a bare minimum - and that's with nothing else using the connection. You might wanna read over their own FAQs, they cover the technical issues themselves in there

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    Onlive Ftw im gonna apply to the beta. Fr all you ppltalking about the lag YouTube - GameSpot @ GDC 09: OnLive Full Press Conference skip to 6 min and watch.
    Even if I didnt help you please click thanks :X

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    Lag is dependant on so many things - there isn't an online game or service that isn't affected by it to some degree, and any video taken at a developers conference is not conclusive proof - when you're running any demo whatsoever you always make sure you have a flawless setup, or even have it stream from a temporary server set up on a faster link direct to the conference centre.

    And as I previously said, even the developers themselves state a minimum connection speed and that other things sharing the connection WILL impact the experience other than light web browsing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    I play splinter cell conviction (the game i got 4 free) and assassins creed (30% off july 4th sale and both games run on my 2 ghz late 2007 imac 20" way faster than my xbox 360 with virtually no latency.
    B*llSh**

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    Quote Originally Posted by redhotlog View Post
    would be great news for anyone using bootcamp to play games!
    Just buy a pc then. My god what's the point if you are just going to throw windows on it.

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    ^hahaha exactly

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    I'd rather have a machine that runs both well (and the MBPs run Windows very well) than have a repeat of the pieces of junk that were my last few Windows laptops, especially if the Windows partition is there purely for gaming.

    Yes, you can hackintosh, but as-is I have a machine I can upgrade worry free, all the inbuilt hardware is 100% supported out of the box, and works well on both OSes (well, all three, there's a Linux partition there too) and very good battery life.

    Yeah, what the heck am I thinking... completely pointless purchase there! Who in the hell would want to consider build quality when picking their machines?

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    Quote Originally Posted by madon View Post
    I'd rather have a machine that runs both well (and the MBPs run Windows very well) than have a repeat of the pieces of junk that were my last few Windows laptops, especially if the Windows partition is there purely for gaming.

    Yes, you can hackintosh, but as-is I have a machine I can upgrade worry free, all the inbuilt hardware is 100% supported out of the box, and works well on both OSes (well, all three, there's a Linux partition there too) and very good battery life.

    Yeah, what the heck am I thinking... completely pointless purchase there! Who in the hell would want to consider build quality when picking their machines?
    Speaking from experience I can say that Macs do not run windows well. The drivers are absolutely terrible... :/
    Last edited by dale1v; 07-06-2010 at 01:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    all this trash talk about onlive then you say youd gladly use steam?
    Yes I will. Because Steam is a distribution service. OnLive and Steam are not alike like the way you seem to think they are. Steam is a digital distribution service that sells you a copy of the game you get to keep without a monthly subscription. OnLive sells you a game that you don't get a local copy of and can only play if you continue to subscribe to their service. Steam is simply a distributor.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    In case you didnt realize even though they claim to be cloud gaming steam makes you wait like 3 hours for games that are instant on onlive.
    Not true. Steam only claims to keep your game progress in the cloud. That way you can pick up where you left off on any computer that has Steam and that game installed. You've got your perception and your facts wrong. Steam isn't the same as OnLive and you need to get your facts straight about what Steam actually is and what it does. There is a huge difference between cloud gaming and saving game progress to the cloud. I've purchased three games, Left 4 Dead/Left 4 Dead 2/ Metro 2033, and NONE of them took '3 hours' to download. Metro 2033 took the longest at just under an hour on my 10 meg Hargray connection.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    But I really dont understand where gizmodo or you are getting this whole low quality graphics thing from because the games show up way better on onlive than on vmware fusion running windows 7 or even bootcamp for that matter as well as steam.
    They said the game was in 720p upscaled to 2500x1600 on their local machine. That's bad quality if I've ever seen it. The textures were about as good as a Playstation 2 game from at least a few years ago at best. That quality is utter garbage compared to Left 4 Dead 2 running in Bootcamp Windows 7 at 1900x1200 with maximum setting on my MacBook Pro using the 9600M GT. Where you think that they are the same, they are nowhere near that. The quality is horrendous compared to a game running on native hardware in Bootcamp. They aren't even close. Maybe your iMac has trouble with those games but my MacBook Pro EXCELS at running Source games. Even my install of Fallout 3 looks better at 1200x800 that the game they were playing. I average 30-40 FPS in L4D2 and over 50 FPS in Fallout 3. So your results may vary, but compressed video will never look as good through the internet as it will on native hardware. That's a fact that can't be disputed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    In fact I only paid $40 for 2 of the greatest games and a year free membership.
    You paid $40 for two games you don't actually own.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Haha you think theyre gonna go bankrupt? Because thats the only way youd lose any of your stuff but might I remind you they have huge investments from at&t and tons of other companies as well as support from all the major developers. Once they get that microconsle and some advertising theyll be huge!
    Because businesses don't fail? Because what they are claiming isn't really true? Because people realize they don't actually own what they supposedly bought? Because AT&T has continually shown that they will screw their customers if given the chance? No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Again you contridict yourself with the whole software disc thing. First you babble on about how keeping the software discs can help you keep track of your expenses when in reality they just get scratched and lost and screw you over.
    I never said that, and I didn't 'babble' about keeping track of expenses. You can't comprehend what I read the first time, go back and reread it.

    Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
    If you can't keep track of where your expensive software discs are that's not a ding against the idea, not even close.
    I said that if YOU can't keep track or scratch the expensive things you buy, it's your fault. Not the discs. You're making arguments based on what you think I said. If you think getting screwed by 'buying' a game to rent and not actually owning the game versus scratching a disc that can be repaired then you are the perfect customer for this service. They depend on people thinking they are buying games when reality is you are paying full price for the game, can't resell it if you want, and you can't play it ever again if they go out of business.

    By your logic I should instead lease a car and never buy one because it could get scratched, dented, wrecked, or get stolen? Maybe I shouldn't buy my car because a leased one is just the same, but by buying the car I can sell it when I want to and make some money back. What backwards logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Then you go on to say you can sell them- how are they good at keeping track of your expenses if you sell them?
    You've put words in my mouth again, please stop. It's actually quite simple though. Return on investment. If I have a game that I liked and a friend wants it I can save him money AND make a portion of my investment back. You cannot do this with OnLive because you don't own the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Then you say youd pay Steam for the game then pay again for the physical copy? If your cheap enough to try to sell your old games and hope to get half price why the hell would you pay twice for the same goddamn game when buying a game on onlive lets you use it on any computer or tv or iphone anywhere in the US.
    No I didn't say that. This is what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
    I'll gladly pay Valve to play their games, but I always buy the box copy.
    Nowhere did I say I would pay Steam anything, and nowhere did I say I would buy them twice. Steam is a distribution service that is owned by Valve Corporation. They don't make games because they aren't anybody. There are a storefront for developers to sell games digitally. I did make a somewhat false statement, I have bought Valve games on Steam. Not a box copy, but a copy I own nonetheless. Sure I was wrong and I can't sell those, but the difference is that I knew that when I bought them and you obviously have no clue that you can't sell your games to make back some of your money.
    Either you don't know, or don't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Okay, so what if you dont have a goddamn physical copy?
    I want one. I'm not paying full price for something I'll never have a copy of, you do not. Just a difference of opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    I bet you sure dont complain about having a damn physical copy for iphone games.
    Except that I do in fact have a copy of the games I buy on my iPhone, and I don't complain about something I have nothing to complain about. They are downloaded to my computer and I can make backups, move the copy to another computer, or delete it if I don't want it. You don't even know that you do get a copy of the games you buy on the iPhone.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Eventually you will even be able to use it over 3g
    If this ever comes to fruition I will eat your shoes. Otherwise I'm calling ******** on this fantasy. You can't even watch YouTube videos at very good quality over 3G.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Here's some proof you can run the most graphic intense pc game, Crysis core on a crappy laptop with all the res and graphics turned up: IGN Video: GDC 09: OnLive Video Demos PC Games - Crysis Running on Crappy Laptop

    Here's onlive on the ipad: YouTube - OnLive Demoed on an iPad
    Super sexy!!
    Again, you are wrong. Those tech demos are streaming from only 50 miles away and are very highly optimized to look good for the press. That is not real world performance. And if you think 720p is 'all the res' you haven't seen a real PC then. 720p is very low resolution for a PC game and is by no means 'full res and graphics turned up'. I'd bet the textures and AA are really low as well. That's nothing more that what an overheated XBox could achieve locally and you actually own the game and hardware that doesn't lag at all.

    Playing Borderlands on an iPad is the funniest damn thing I've ever seen. How do you circle strafe? How do you jump and maintain lock on your enemy? How do you accomplish the same level of play with your thumbs that I can with both hands and fingers at the same time? Seems to me that you can't touch more that two inputs at a time. You can't possibly believe that will be even remotely enjoyable? Sure you could play it, but the experience would be terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Onlive has huge servers throughout the country that do all the processing for you and send it to your computer screen in FULL RESOLUTION in 80 miliseconds which is far less latency than any xbox or pc out there. You can honestly run games with the resolution and shadow turned completely up and run it far better than any $1500 alienware on any computer or TV.
    ********. Complete ********. There is zero guarantee you'll get 80ms ping. None. 80ms ping is high anyway, I average about 40 on Team Fortress 2 and that's without having someone send the game to me. Your misguided opinion that 80ms ping is 'far less' than a PC or XBox is quite amusing, it's obvious you don't game online and haven't extensively if you believe that to be true, much less believe that it'll always be that good or even close to that low. Want to know how I came to the conclusion that you don't know a damn thing about PC gaming? Because you can set up any Source multiplayer game server up to run on one core of a dual core CPU INSIDE your own computer and play using the other one. Know what that means at a LAN party? You have ZERO ping to the server. There is proof that running games natively is MUCH faster than cramming it down a pipe.

    'Full resolution' is a lie as well. It's very highly compressed and then upscaled to whatever screen you are using. They even say in the tech demo it's compressed. That means it's not as high quality as the original.The texture quality is going to be much worse than a decent PC. You never even state what you consider 'full resolution and graphics' to be so I don't think you have an idea what they are streaming it in. All I've heard is 720p and I get far far better than that with 16xMSAA and max textures with zero lag in all my Valve games. OnLive CANNOT match that, no matter how much smoke they try to blow up my ***.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    ......and might just completely wipe out the remains of AT&Ts network. (oh wait... 2gb limit... those as*holes)
    What makes you think your ISP won't apply the same limits? OH WAIT. They already do. This is a failed venture if the ISPs don't relax their caps and throttling of your internet connection and that WILL NOT happen. Pipe dream.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Don't go trashing the best cloud gaming system thay will set the standards for gaming and what will be the future of video games unless you actually know anything about it.
    I've presented facts, you've presented marketing. I don't believe in the service because I think it's a ripoff and won't work as advertised. You don't seem to know alot about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    You read one sh*tty engadget review and pull a few things out of context and exaggerate them and you think you know everything about onlive. How about actually learning the facts?
    No, I read one Gizmodo review of their experience at home with a faster internet connection than I average by a factor of at least 4 and they said the lag was minimal, but the graphics were Playstation 2 quality. I also read the TOS, I also took into account what their competitors offer (games publishers), what ISPs are doing these days as far as data speeds and caps they impose on those speeds, and I took into account the facts about hardware performance and massively compressed internet traffic. I get much better than that on my own hardware and I don't have to pay for the priviledge to play games I don't actually own. How about you learn some facts and learn reading comprehension? Like I did in the other thread about GeoHot, you've made yourself look just as stupid as I did. You've done nothing but make generic statements, pulled things out of context and exaggerated them, misquoted everything I've said, AND you don't know what the differences between OnLive and Steam are. By doing that have nullified every single argument you've made. By not even knowing the basics of the two services you can't argue your points with any validity.

    Quote Originally Posted by dale1v View Post
    Speaking from experience I can say that Macs do not run windows well. The drivers are absolutely terrible... :/
    What are you having problems with? Other than the random freezing with the Windows 7 RC, I've had zero problems with drivers. Hell, windows has a much better windows manager than OS X and the sound switches seamlessly between my USB speakers and the internal speakers when I plug/unplug them.The battery life is crap though.
    Last edited by KartRacer; 07-06-2010 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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