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02-20-2010, 07:10 PM #61
I agree with Saurik from the the point he makes starting from 'The Next Hope' in the link
the fact that Apple wants every body to conform to what they want, like locking down the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad and and telling us we don't need flash when some of us actually want it.
why should I be told what I can and can't have, especialy when it's a device I've spent good money on, Apple should give people a choice, thats why we jailbreak and that is why flash should be an option. not because flash is ****, but that we can chose to have what we want on our devices
do you buy a car then have to ask the maker where, when and how you can drive it,
so why should Apple or any other software/hardware company tell you what you can and can't do with the product you've bought
02-20-2010, 07:13 PM #62
02-21-2010, 02:20 AM #63
yourself look not only incredibly stereotypical
As for speaking your mind, I'm all for that, I think it's great. I just wish people would just say something that hasn't been said over and over again for about five pages of posts, and maybe have a little respect for one-another.
Last edited by Condor.312; 02-21-2010 at 02:23 AM.
02-21-2010, 04:01 AM #64
ABOBE FLASH IS CRRRRRRAAPP and HTML5 will replace flash, why don't you get your hand off it. Knowledge on OSX, ZERO. Your knowledge on Flash for OSX, DOUBLE ZERO. LOSER!!
Last edited by Kroo; 02-21-2010 at 05:29 AM.
02-21-2010, 04:12 AM #65
02-21-2010, 08:35 AM #66
Have a read:
Adobe Flash patch out of band - Patch Thursday? | Chester Wisniewski's Blog
On the topic of flash for Apple product, here is a quote from the Adobe website.
"A critical vulnerability exists in the current versions of Flash Player (v126.96.36.199 and v10.0.22.87) for Windows, Macintosh, Linux and Solaris operating systems, and the authplay.dll component that ships with Adobe Reader and Acrobat v9.x for Windows, Macintosh and UNIX operating systems. This vulnerability (CVE-2009-1862) could cause a crash and potentially allow an attacker to take control of the affected system. There are reports that this vulnerability is being actively exploited in the wild via limited, targeted attacks against Adobe Reader v9 on Windows.
Link: Adobe - Security Advisories: APSA09-03 - Security Advisory for Adobe Reader, Acrobat and Flash Player
Adobe admits their product is not up to scratch. The ball is in their court. Like I want an attacker to take control of my system. F.UCK NO!!
Lets look at some basic facts about flash on mobile devices and forget the hate/flame session:
1) Technically being able to use Flash isn't/doesn't make it feasible. So I can no get Flash ads in Safari but I am maxing out my processor so everything else on my iDevice runs slower as a result. Note that AnandTech has reported 100% utilization for significant amounts of time on Flash-heavy sites for Safari on netbooks.
2) The iPad is a handheld device, not one constantly plugged in or with a huge battery. A notebook has a huge battery compared to any iDevice yet testing shows that you get 50% more usage without Flash running. This gets worse with slower machines with smaller batteries.
3) Let's examine what people want Flash for. Games and apps? Nearly all of them won't work because they were designed for a mouse and keyboard, not a touchscreen. Flash ads? Come on! Video? Still gonna happen with most sites as video processing and streaming will need it's own resources that Flash is already sucking.
4) Before it's your iPad, it's Apple's iPad. They are the ones selling the device so they have the right to choose the best way to do it. If HP wants to shoehorn Windows 7 into a 10" tablet, that is there choice. It doesn't fit my needs and it'll only sell to a few odd people, but they have the right. Apple has decided to make an OS to suit the HW, if someone doesn't like then don't buy it. If enough people don't buy it then they'll reevaluate their business model.
5) It's coming to the end of Winter in 2010. People have been complaining about and blaming Apple for the lack of Flash since January 2007. Over three years, yet Adobe still hasn't released Flash for any other smartphone on the market. It seems clear there are issues with Flash that Adobe only recently has decided to address. On top of that, Mozilla has decided to disable Flash 10.1 in Firefox Mobile for Maemo because of performance issues. Personally, I can't wait until Flash 10.1 officially get released to all these mobile OSes so we can see just how badly it performs.
Flash has benefits, too, but none of them are on a handheld device with an ARM processor.
Credit for this goes to solipsism.
If you're REALLY interested, I suggest you read this article.
AppleInsider | Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash
To those who keep saying HTML5 is years away, then I say, what do you call this?
Jilion - SublimeVideo
CPU ran at 19% while viewing this video, as opposed to the 90%+ on flash rendering!!!
Great viewing: This vid points out the realities of this argument, oh, and if you think flash or flash lite will be installed on window 7 mobile OS, think again. Not til the end of the year, coz the lazyasses at Adobe haven't been able to condense the code package yet.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2xrAAhAsDw]YouTube - Ten Myths of Apple's iPad: 2. It needs Flash[/ame]
Reasons why flash is bad.
1) Flash is proprietary! Made by one and only one vendor. Of course, Adobe wants to continue the addiction. "The web must have Flash."
2) The only way that developers can make Flash based products is to buy the patented developer tools from Adobe. Web content used to be open source before Microsoft pushed Adobe to try and kill quicktime and monopolise web content. Quicktime is free and open.
3) The only way consumers can view Flash content is via patented software provided by Adobe for their platform of choice. And if it doesn't run well on your platform, tough!
4) There are no open source plug ins.
5) The resources needed for OSX are in some cases double compared to Windows.
The recommended (not minimum) requirements for flash are as follows.
Intel Core Duo 1.8GHz, AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 4200+ processor (or equivalent)
128MB of RAM
64MB of VRAM
Intel Core Duo 2.66GHz processor (or equivalent)
512MB of RAM
128MB of VRAM
The system requirements for OSX is double for CPU and VRAM and insane for RAM. So clearly this is an Adobe optimising issue on OSX not something Windows users face.
6) There is no 64-bit version of Flash for Mac OS X. What, Apple is supposed to pick up the slack for THEIR product ?
7) The reason why Adobe trolls here keep shooting the argument down to keep Adobe alive, is,......HTML 5 is free and can be written in a text editor.
Last edited by Kroo; 02-21-2010 at 08:44 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
02-21-2010, 11:34 AM #67
02-21-2010, 02:58 PM #68
the mac has only recently jumped up in the computer market. you can thank the iphone for that. it introduced people to apple. the sales of macs will rise and will get so many more viruses in the future
02-21-2010, 03:08 PM #69
yea wtf steve? this aint no dictatorship
02-21-2010, 03:38 PM #70
02-21-2010, 03:48 PM #71
1) By purchasing any products manifactured by the Apple Inc.
i. You willingly hand over any free will within your possesion.
ii. You will continue to defend Apple products and their flaws especially in regards to unsupported software and sub modern standards of todays hardware
iii. You will idolize Steve Jobs and discontinue social interaction with any peer that doesn't if conversion was unsuccessful.
02-22-2010, 05:25 AM #72
Apple's choice is Apples choice, so being wrong is not a fact, just your narrow opinion. They make their choice on commercial, political and safety reasons on behalf of their product and with 33.75 million iPhones sold to date (Q4 2009), I don't think many iPhone users are missing flash at all.
Last edited by Kroo; 02-22-2010 at 05:36 AM.
02-22-2010, 06:38 AM #73
Proprietary (software): The term "proprietary software" is often used to mean computer software which is neither free nor open source.
Now, let's take a look at quicktime. The actual technology isn't open source. To quote wikipedia: "QuickTime is an extensible proprietary multimedia framework developed by Apple, capable of handling various formats of digital video, 3D models, sound, text, animation, music, panoramic images, and interactivity"
That puts a pretty nasty hole in your argument.
As it stands, Quicktime is not a suitable competitor for Flash. Whilst it can do certain tasks that Flash can do, there is a vast ammount of functions that make Flash much more superior.
Think of it this way. If you had a brand of car that you'd trusted for your entire life, you enjoyed the car and everything about it. One draw back of this go-go-mobile is it didn't have air-con. Every other car company has had cars with A/C for the last 5 years, but your car company's CEO was adament that it wasn't worth your time. Are you likely to stick around with one that's making choices for you?
Obviously both our opinions in that regards are mere speculation and I'm not willing to point fingers at either corperation, without some sort of substantial evidence that no one here is likely to obtain.
Overall, my point is Apple should allow their consumers to make the decision. I'm not renting my iPhone, I bought it.
02-22-2010, 08:06 AM #74
There's some bias in your argument which don't seem to have the knowledge of the facts or politics on this issue. You say this is wrong or that is wrong but where are the facts to back up your case?
Nice to see you can find wiki, but please don't cut and paste wiki stuff, it's insulting. I've been in web design and photographic elements for 16 years, and need no lecture, thank you. Quicktime allows development of add-ons and plugins and codecs, always has, open technology. It used to be the industry standard until Adobe hijacked the web. Adobe flash is closed technology! Never said QT was a competitor, how can they compete in an environment cornered by one company that has 90% of the market?? I don't like monopolies at all. Even if someone came up with a formatted render plugin for flash, they wouldn't allow it.
Before you throw your heart at Flash, you'd better read Adobes own security warnings: Adobe - Security Advisories: APSA09-03 - Security Advisory for Adobe Reader, Acrobat and Flash Player
Don't want viruses or trojans thanks, sorry you're happy risking your system to the unknown.
Market forces decide the success or failure of anything, and as of today, iphone/no flash, is still kicking goals. iPad? Well we shall see. I reckon it could flop.
On the blackberry front, sorry but that's wrong. Adobe isn't writing for the RIM architecture. They talk about it, but I bet you it won't be in the next 12-18 months, so that's not soon at all. As for Palm, Meh! Full flash capabilities are not possible on any mobile device as of today.
Don't give me that argument about OSX not being suitable for flash, give me a break. What's your experience about UNIX architecture? Flash is a plugin for gods sake, not photoshop. 99% of all the third party apps I use, which are high end and demand respect for their development and input, have no problem whatsoever running well, fast and without issues, on OSX. One stupid web plugin can't render simple video without massive memory leakage, that's sloppy. Have Adobe done everything in their power to make flash run smoothly? I don't know, is that a fact or just an assumption based on something? Please let me in on your secrets.
I don't like Apples locking down and control of GUI and mobile substrate on their mobile devices, and if I didn't like it strongly enough, I wouldn't buy them. People ***** and moan about this all the time, well all I can advise is, people, don't buy the damn things!! If Apple let their consumers decide, we'd end up with a camel designed by consensus. "But I want this and I want that".
Do yourself a favour and have a read of this article and the following forum comments. You may just be enlightened.
AppleInsider | Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash
02-22-2010, 09:03 AM #75
Hey TROLL. what it like there in the Adobe office today?
02-22-2010, 11:12 AM #76
I'd say entertaining for Rota since he's got flash to play with, I've got no flash so I have nothing to do but sit here and argue like what you are doing Kroo.
Last edited by unison999; 02-22-2010 at 11:15 AM.
02-22-2010, 01:56 PM #77
02-22-2010, 03:01 PM #78
Hahah. You're fun. Pretty hypocritical but fun. I honestly don't care how long you've been in the industry for. I've dabbled in it out of choice for the last 5 years. It really doesn't make a difference. Believe it or not, Wikipedia is actually a reliable source. But hey, I'm sure in your 15 years of god-like state, you knew that.
I've not thrown my heart at anyone buddy, so no need to get jealous. Going by your logic, that'd mean you wouldn't touch anything with 1's and 0's. Every piece of software is bound to have security holes. You're lovely OSX Has/had (I'm not sure if it's been addressed) one that I'm well aware of. This one allowed people to take control of the Mac in somethin' silly like less than 5 minutes!
So your argument is flawed. If you were seriously worried about security holes then you'd not even connect to the internet in the first place.
As I'd asked before, when was the last time you've been hacked by a Flash application.
Quite honestly, I've not dabbled in UNIX architecture. Nor do I claim to know everything I'm making nothing more than speculations, as you are. Mine are based on common sense, yours are based Apple being perfect.
And there you said so yourself. You'd not buy a product if a limitation bothered you. So that'd mean you just confirmed my point that you entertained yourself over. Good job!
As I've stated earlier. I'm not on either side of PC and Mac shibang. They both have their cons. I've not stated that Apple are crap or inadequate, I've just passed out my opinion. You're not in any position to accuse myself or any other of being biased. The worst thing you can do in any debate is to make obvious that you're a hypocrite.
02-22-2010, 03:08 PM #79
I do not get all this arguement about flash, if there is no demand for it we would not have this arguement. If there is no demand for it Jobs would not slander flash make it seem worthless for nothing. If it is worthless people would not care if they have it, this whole thread would not exist.
Obviously people want flash on their device, Jobs sick of hearing about it. Instead of having people seeing it as weakness on his "revolutionary entertainment device", he try to redirect your attention to how weak flash is. At the dawn of iPad sales, not able to play flash on a entertainment device is an Achiles heel. It may not matter to some but obviously it matters to many people or else this would not be addressed by Jobs himself. From his response Jobs is not going to allow flash anyways, so without flash to me iPad is just a bigger less functional iPhone. I see absolutely no reason to owning one.
Last edited by unison999; 02-25-2010 at 02:11 PM.
02-22-2010, 05:57 PM #80