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Thread: Abuse Detection Technology?
08-07-2009, 03:23 PM #41
And that's an extremely important question, why not? Maybe they just want to make more profit where possible.
08-07-2009, 03:25 PM #42
If it happens the way you describe, yes that would suck ***, but it appears the system would probably timestamp all entries so if someone at apple who actually analyzes the abuse data has some sort of common sense and techinical expertise would hopefully see that an event occurring a month or more before the actual HW failure probably has very little chance of being the real reason a the device has failed.
That being said there a lot of IFs and there are many chances for apple to f it up big time.
Last edited by logicbomb.de; 08-07-2009 at 03:30 PM.
08-07-2009, 03:30 PM #43
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The sad part of this is that Apple selling hardware is just incidental. What is really of value is their ideas, ingenuity, customer service, name and inovations.
What does it real cost to manufacture an iPhone in China? Probably about $10......
There is a chain of stores in Canada called Princess Auto. Their motto is "The sale is not final until you are satisfied". You can bring back a defective tool to them 5 years after you purchased it, even if it was damaged by your own stupidity. They just hand you a new one.
Funny thing is, there is a steady stream of customers at their counters, with buggies piled high with items. But not too many at the returns counter.
Apple could learn a few things from them about customer service...."Where are we going and why am I in this handbag?"
08-07-2009, 03:55 PM #44
Isn't stuff like laptops and phones covered on house insurance?16GB iPhone 4
160GB Black iPod Classic
16GB iPhone 3GS
60GB iPod Classic
80GB iPod Classic
120GB iPod Classic
08-07-2009, 03:59 PM #45
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08-07-2009, 04:08 PM #46
08-07-2009, 04:44 PM #47
It sounds like a great idea on a tech level. You can test a product so much. Best testers are consumers, Right?
08-07-2009, 04:45 PM #48
no the other stuff about timelines and how apple could use that against you is very true, imho.
and yes, the girlfriend thing was a joke. i agree with you... dude needs to get that corn cobb out of his butt.
08-07-2009, 04:48 PM #49
1) Fortunately, we're able to buy insurance for our cars in which said insurance would either repair our car or pay us the value of the car if its unrepairable. Many devices (cameras, Dell computers, etc.) offer insurance like accidental care just in case of accidents. Yet Apple has failed to offer such insurance; just a extended crappy warranty. So yes, Apple is at fault and it should be their problem for not providing the choice to a consumer that uses one of their devices (iPhone), which can be easily dropped, have water (condensation) damage, or even be chewed out by my dog.
2) Apple and business. Every hand-held device they sale = 150%-200% or more profit. Nothing less. Even their refurbish products net them at least 100-185% profit. This is not including the fact that 100% of their product expenses are deductible; like parts, shipping, manufacturing, employee pay, etc. So even if they were to resell parts, there will be profit, since again, expenses are deductible.
This new input device Apple has patented might or might not be a disaster, but I am very sure it isn't to the benefit of the consumer. To those that are on Apple side and are against fraudulent iPhone claims; all Apple needs to do is have a Accident Care insurance for their devices. And if someone with a fraudulent claim wants to get a new iPhone or have it repaired without the insurance, then Apple can turn them away.
Will this Accident insurance be profitable for Apple? Of course not, which is why they do not offer it. Because unlike car insurance where your insurance premium can go up after an "accident", Apple won't be able to do the same.
Last edited by Greeneval; 08-07-2009 at 04:52 PM.
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08-07-2009, 05:09 PM #50
Second, I ask where you get these numbers from. I hope they aren't from these "parts" breakdowns that people use that in no way take into account the SUPPLY CHAIN and the biggest cost of all: RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. Too many people take a parts list and think they understand the cost. The part costs xyz right? They don't come together by themselves. Engineers are expensive
Last edited by rotaryheadrx7; 08-07-2009 at 05:12 PM.
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08-07-2009, 05:57 PM #51
This will be a good read
08-07-2009, 06:09 PM #52
Is there any way that Apple could use this to determine if an iPhone is jailbroken and keep some sort of log inside the phone. Then if we try to use our warranty they say we aren't eligible for any service because of this? Just an idea...
08-07-2009, 06:52 PM #53
I agree, no way Apple is required to provide an accidental insurance type policy and they don't because it's not profitable. Which is the entire point of my earlier post. Unfortunately, you can't get a third party device insurance for the iphone like you could with a Canon camera. Why? I not sure, but I believe its because Apple doesn't allow just anyone to make or use parts for their devices. So in a sense, it is Apple's fault. Apple doesn't allow anyone to intrude upon any of their devices, as such, no third party electronic insurance is available for the iPhone.
The "numbers" are relative to my earlier post in that, what Apple does, is for profit and hardly beneficial to the consumer. That is, the expenses for the supply chain, research and development, etc. are just that, expenses, which like I said expenses are deductible.
Here's an example of a relative senario of:
iPhone research & Development team cost: $100 million
Supply Chain cost: $100 million
Manufacturing cost: $100 million
MISC cost: $100 Million
Sales of $600 iPhone, 1 million units = $600 million
Net Profit: $600 million - $400 million = $200 million Profit
(note: this isn't including App. store profit)
Here's an example of relative senario if they had an Insurance policy:
iPhone Insurance policy:
iPhone expense (parts & research & etc) = $400
Insurance cost: $100 for 1 year.
Iphone sale: $600 per unit
Apple net profit is: $600 + $100 - $400 = $300
Iphone damage beyond repair, new iPhone or refurbish one: $400
Apple net profit per unit with their insurance if they had to replace an iphone = -$100.
I know as an engineer you know what it takes to get a product out into the consumer and I am sure you understand the cost as well. But I do not think you know how much profit Apple actually makes from each sale of an iPhone unit. I'm not sure either, but as an investor, I've seen their financial reports and they do a very good job of cutting down expenses and maximizing profit. All I am trying to say is that, Apple will not do anything to benefit their consumers if their isn't any profit.
Last edited by Greeneval; 08-07-2009 at 06:58 PM.
08-07-2009, 07:05 PM #54
I slap my girl around all the time, infact she slaps me around too.
its called 'abusive love' or more widely known as foreplay.
as for ownership, well Ill show you the title to her if you wanna go that route.
anyway...I think this is nonsense, what if you go on a roller coaster?
whose to say that when I goto sixflags and ride the King da ka which goes like 150mph in under 2 seconds that it wont register as a fall?
What if I take a shower and the phone is on the counter , never gets wet but the sensor reads moisture in the air.
I mean its all GREY area imo.
I could argue that its apples fault for not using moisture barriers on the device and so forth.
This is just them locking in a idea, doesnt mean they're are actually using it.
08-08-2009, 04:19 AM #55
Thoughtcrime does not entail death. Thoughtcrime IS death.
08-08-2009, 07:14 AM #56
As far as whether they can turn a profit with an insurance policy, I'm sure they could if they designed it well. Insurance companies are in the business of making money also. It boils down to the classic business case of "make or buy" even though its a service. Its a risk that's probably not within Apple's scope.
At any rate your numbers are much better than what most people quote around the net although with my experience still seem conservative and assuming you read their full report you should have an understanding of where their expenses were. Using your own numbers (even if they are conservative with the expenses) they are not turning 150-200% profit. (Not that I am holding you to those numbers as I know they were to make a point)
There are third party insurance offerings for the iPhone, for example Square Trade offers insurance as well as home insurances will cover the phones so there are options even with Apple's design choices.
Fact of the matter is its still not Apple's fault when my cat decides to test the laws of gravity. Whether he didn't know he'd cause damage or whether he was trying to get back at me for scaring him this morning.
Last edited by rotaryheadrx7; 08-08-2009 at 07:24 AM.
08-08-2009, 09:24 AM #57
Apple once again makes an attempt into controlling people's lives..lol..I think this is their way of saying, "WE DONT WANT YOU JAILBREAKING YOUR PHONES!", well I say to them, "STOP ACTING LIKE BABIES, AND THINK OF FAR MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES OTHER THAN THIS SEEMINGLY HARMLESS ACTIONS!"...
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08-08-2009, 09:48 AM #58
"Your IPHONE 3G has been inspected by Apple technicians, who have determined that it has been subjected to accidental damage or misuse, which is not covered by the warranty or an Apple service contract. Therefore your original product is being returned to you unrepaired. You should expect to receive it within two business days along with a letter that gives details of this assessment. Apple will send you a separate email to indicate that this service request is complete and to provide the tracking information for the shipment."
First time I've ever had an issue with apples repair services....
Too bad the phone seems quite faulty, I've been using a pink razr while its gone, guh.... World of a difference..
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08-08-2009, 07:31 PM #59
Just put your phone on your home owners policy or your parents.... for around $24.00 a year they will cover it... dropping, water etc... etc... however ours will not cover it from software issues that brick it....
08-08-2009, 09:00 PM #60
This just proves Apple are a'holes.
I had a phone and on the battery its got a moisture spot so they 'know' if it got wet or whatever. I tried to get the phone fixed and they said as its been wet they wont touch it. It never got wet but it was in a tropical place for a few months and the humidity probably got to it so they reckon it got wet.
All these protections so they don't have to fix your phone.
When this iPhone dies or gets stolen I will be getting any phone thats NOT from Apple.