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ANY phone with a slide out keyboard is garbage in IMO. I'm glad he got fired for insisting the iphone have a keyboard and that apple didnt put one on
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  1. #21
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    ANY phone with a slide out keyboard is garbage in IMO. I'm glad he got fired for insisting the iphone have a keyboard and that apple didnt put one on it. keyboard sliders are clunky, make the phone thick bricks (the pre (0.67 inches thick) is twice as thick as the iphone 3G (0.33″ inches thick) , they break easy, and its archaic technology for those who refuse to learn future/better input methods. The Pre supports only pop and imap, no exchange sync or mobileme type file sync either. Good for him that he quit or got fired and made the Pre. Pre will not even come close to the iphone and will fail just like all the other smartphones are doing right now that are clinging to technology of the past. Apple was revolutionary for putting as FEW buttons on the phone as possible. All other 'buttons' are graphics on the screen that are reprogrammable/changeable with future OS releases. For all those people who can't type on the screen without 'feeling' that they've hit a button (usually the elders of the group), or those who say 'I can't type and drive at the same time without the keyboard', learn to type on the screen using multi-touch technology. we've been cursed with slide out keyboards on great phones for the past 10 years. Good riddens! Multi-touch/touchscreen input is the future, not buttons, sorry, get over it, move on. *insert crying emoticon with tiny violin here*

    As for the Pre syncing with itunes, I'm sure that will be disabled when the next iTunes is released. It will probably check for the OS and kill any connection with non-apple OSes.

    Read this article (Pre vs IPhone) and tell me if you still think the Pre sounds like it will be better.
    http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/05...e-30-palm-pre/
    Last edited by brianturney; 05-28-2009 at 08:29 PM.

  2. #22
    What's Jailbreak? AutumnBoard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianturney View Post
    ANY phone with a slide out keyboard is garbage in IMO. I'm glad he got fired for insisting the iphone have a keyboard and that apple didnt put one on it. keyboard sliders are clunky, make the phone thick bricks (the pre (0.67 inches thick) is twice as thick as the iphone 3G (0.33″ inches thick) , they break easy, and its archaic technology for those who refuse to learn future/better input methods. The Pre supports only pop and imap, no exchange sync or mobileme type file sync either. Good for him that he quit or got fired and made the Pre. Pre will not even come close to the iphone and will fail just like all the other smartphones are doing right now that are clinging to technology of the past. Apple was revolutionary for putting as FEW buttons on the phone as possible. All other 'buttons' are graphics on the screen that are reprogrammable/changeable with future OS releases. For all those people who can't type on the screen without 'feeling' that they've hit a button (usually the elders of the group), or those who say 'I can't type and drive at the same time without the keyboard', learn to type on the screen using multi-touch technology. we've been cursed with slide out keyboards on great phones for the past 10 years. Good riddens! Multi-touch/touchscreen input is the future, not buttons, sorry, get over it, move on. *insert crying emoticon with tiny violin here*
    The on-screen keyboard is a mixed blessing. For one thing, the on-screen keyboard approach is not for everyone, by any stretch. For one thing, they take up a massive ammount of screen space. And, most importantly, some people just prefer a keyboard that you feel and know where it is. Some people are very tactile by nature. That's not a bad thing, for your information. You shouldn't be so unbelievably snotty. Who's gonna listen to you if you talk like that. Anyway, it's a lot harder to get a feel for the on-screen keyboard sometimes. It changes a lot, and that's a good and bad thing. It's harder to get a feel for that for one thing (ever heard of muscle memory?), but it can create opportunities for developers to make more complex and innovative apps. Some people really like a physical keyboard. some people don't. I think there should be 2 iPhones, one with a flip-out keyboard, and one with the on-screen keyboard. That would be a great solution, in my opinion. Are you listening, Apple?

  3. #23
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    ^ iPhone will never have a slider keyboard! Mark it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzone View Post
    well if the pre is his vision of what the iphone should be, then I'll keep mine. From what I have seen of the Pre it does look like a good phone and all, but dont think it is going to outdo the iphone. exp after 3.0 comes out.
    Wait, you didn't know how to spell "especially" so you abbreviated and STILL got it wrong? I'll admit that I often find that I typed an x there and correct it before anyone sees.

    Quote Originally Posted by sziklassy View Post
    The OP all too hastily assumes (if this is true) that Apple is not aware of this, and if they are, that Apple wouldn't allow it. Is it at all possible that Palm came to Apple and got permission for this? Surely a company like Palm isn't foolish enough to take such actions without consent are they?
    Exactly. Also, I believe that it may have come specifically from their disagreements. In response to Apple's legal threats they may have paid Apple something to drop it and allow them to use some of their technology, including sync. It could go the other way too... Apple's legal threats were unfounded and they were under threat of counter-suit if Apple did not give them something desirable.

    Quote Originally Posted by brianturney View Post
    ANY phone with a slide out keyboard is garbage in IMO. I'm glad he got fired for insisting the iphone have a keyboard and that apple didnt put one on it. keyboard sliders are clunky, make the phone thick bricks (the pre (0.67 inches thick) is twice as thick as the iphone 3G (0.33″ inches thick) , they break easy, and its archaic technology for those who refuse to learn future/better input methods. The Pre supports only pop and imap, no exchange sync or mobileme type file sync either. Good for him that he quit or got fired and made the Pre. Pre will not even come close to the iphone and will fail just like all the other smartphones are doing right now that are clinging to technology of the past. Apple was revolutionary for putting as FEW buttons on the phone as possible. All other 'buttons' are graphics on the screen that are reprogrammable/changeable with future OS releases. For all those people who can't type on the screen without 'feeling' that they've hit a button (usually the elders of the group), or those who say 'I can't type and drive at the same time without the keyboard', learn to type on the screen using multi-touch technology. we've been cursed with slide out keyboards on great phones for the past 10 years. Good riddens! Multi-touch/touchscreen input is the future, not buttons, sorry, get over it, move on. *insert crying emoticon with tiny violin here*

    As for the Pre syncing with itunes, I'm sure that will be disabled when the next iTunes is released. It will probably check for the OS and kill any connection with non-apple OSes.

    Read this article (Pre vs IPhone) and tell me if you still think the Pre sounds like it will be better.
    http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/05...e-30-palm-pre/
    Wah wah wah. Dinging a phone for not supporting Mobile Me is like dinging a phone for not being an iPhone, which is hardly fair. As for Exchange support, the iPhone didn't support it for a whole year. Even now, how many non-corporate users are using it? Well, let's just say that if Palm could have even a fraction of that market it'd be a phenomenal success. I expect them to add Exchange support rather quickly, being a PDA... a TRUE SmartPhone.

    As for learning to type with a multi-touch keyboard: You wish! Apple has failed to make multi-touch useful for anything but the few apps that support pinching and unpinching... most disappointingly of all, the keyboard. On top of that, the significant delay in A2DP audio makes the clicking sounds useless... iPhone OS 3.0 has no option to output it from the speakers when using A2DP, so it desperately NEEDS haptic feedback.

    Good riddance!
    Last edited by CZroe; 05-29-2009 at 12:36 AM.

  5. #25
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    Apple needs to shut up.Who cares if it syncs with itunes.It's not like they're stealing anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AutumnBoard View Post
    The on-screen keyboard is a mixed blessing. For one thing, the on-screen keyboard approach is not for everyone, by any stretch. For one thing, they take up a massive ammount of screen space. And, most importantly, some people just prefer a keyboard that you feel and know where it is. Some people are very tactile by nature. That's not a bad thing, for your information. You shouldn't be so unbelievably snotty. Who's gonna listen to you if you talk like that. Anyway, it's a lot harder to get a feel for the on-screen keyboard sometimes. It changes a lot, and that's a good and bad thing. It's harder to get a feel for that for one thing (ever heard of muscle memory?), but it can create opportunities for developers to make more complex and innovative apps. Some people really like a physical keyboard. some people don't. I think there should be 2 iPhones, one with a flip-out keyboard, and one with the on-screen keyboard. That would be a great solution, in my opinion. Are you listening, Apple?
    I didnt write that with a snotty attitude I wrote it with a pullout keyboards are lame attitude. I hope they never make one. its going backwards and catering to people who refuse to learn new methods of input. Companies who cater to old technology to appease those that dont like change keep the technology from advancing. Kudos to Apple for holding their ground. the onscreen keyboard may take up screen space, but only temporarily while input is made. The keyboard under the screen doubles the thickness of the phone, makes is fat and bulky, and thats permanent. it doesnt get thinner when you're done using it. I've heard of muscle memory. I use it everyday when I type on my iphone. my fingers know exactly how far to move now without the crutch of hitting a button. Back when I got my 2G I spent two weeks getting used to the way to type on the iphone. now when I type people look at me in amazement that I can type faster than they can on their keyboard phones. several of them switched to iphone after they saw me typing, because they 'thought they would never be able to learn' to type fast enough. now they do. It's just a matter of letting go of the security blanket of the tactile keyboard. muscle memory works just as well on the iphone.

  7. #27
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    Well The Palm Pre isnt the only phone that can sync with itunes.. BB Storm can do it aswell my friend has one and tried it and it worked. I dunno if its only the Storm that can do it or their latest models (BOLD, JJAVELIN & STORM) but if 1 can um sure future bb models will. Thats unless ofcourse apple jumps in and intervenes
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianturney View Post
    I didnt write that with a snotty attitude I wrote it with a pullout keyboards are lame attitude. I hope they never make one. its going backwards and catering to people who refuse to learn new methods of input. Companies who cater to old technology to appease those that dont like change keep the technology from advancing. Kudos to Apple for holding their ground. the onscreen keyboard may take up screen space, but only temporarily while input is made. The keyboard under the screen doubles the thickness of the phone, makes is fat and bulky, and thats permanent. it doesnt get thinner when you're done using it. I've heard of muscle memory. I use it everyday when I type on my iphone. my fingers know exactly how far to move now without the crutch of hitting a button. Back when I got my 2G I spent two weeks getting used to the way to type on the iphone. now when I type people look at me in amazement that I can type faster than they can on their keyboard phones. several of them switched to iphone after they saw me typing, because they 'thought they would never be able to learn' to type fast enough. now they do. It's just a matter of letting go of the security blanket of the tactile keyboard. muscle memory works just as well on the iphone.
    There's a reason why keyboards and even plastic Guitar Hero controllers have bumps on certain keys... muscle memory is not a replacement.

    That said, you sound just like the fictional fanboys that fully embraced the fictional "Mac Book Wheel" as "the next generation" as if it had no usability flaws what-so-ever and should fully supplant the traditional tactile keyboard. I have a question for you: Why not support small, easily-portable, and completely-optional Bluetooth keyboards like every other SmartPhone?

  9. #29
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    Awesome. Im sure apple is gonna do something about this though! lol


  10. #30
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    I wonder if Apple knows about this? Gee. Let me think about it.

  11. #31
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    The Palm Pe is also CDMA correct?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CZroe View Post
    There's a reason why keyboards and even plastic Guitar Hero controllers have bumps on certain keys... muscle memory is not a replacement.

    That said, you sound just like the fictional fanboys that fully embraced the fictional "Mac Book Wheel" as "the next generation" as if it had no usability flaws what-so-ever and should fully supplant the traditional tactile keyboard. I have a question for you: Why not support small, easily-portable, and completely-optional Bluetooth keyboards like every other SmartPhone?
    haha. indeed. sorry no on the macbook wheel. haha. though, some day, you will see something, sometime, somewhere, replace the keyboard before you die. CRT's, vacuum tubes, floppy disks, cassette tapes, keyboards.. not a matter of if, its a matter of when. for iphones i'm glad its happening now. I don't want to carry around a phone that is a brick twice as thick just for a touchy feely jelly button keyboard. the other advantage to onscreen keyboard for many people is multi-language. makes more sense from a production perspective. you can easily change the layout and characters. Remember, back when iphone first came out, most of the smartphones/blackberrys were still using T9 type text input from the keyboards(tap=A, tap tap=B, tap tap tap=C, shift+tap tap tap=C caps). We had those for what, nearly a decade before qwerty came along on the mainstream phones? They may have well just used morse code. (i'm talking mainstream phones, I'm sure there was probably some dvice out there that was the exception) So shortly after iphone, most of then scrambled and came out with more mainstream devices that had QWERTY, then eventually touchscreens. I probably wouldnt be so against slide out keyboards if they could actually make them super thin and strong rather than flimsy plastic making the device twice as thick like the Pre. I support bluetooth keyboards for the phones if made seperate from the device if people need to use them to type. I dont want that kind of crutch forced on me though. I dont need it. optional? Perfect! then those who need one can use one, those who dont can leave it behind. My input on the screen is as accurate and fast, or faster than a keyboard. knowing this is possible when people take the time to learn to type in this way, for me I prefer taking the time to learn how to type fast on it rather than carrying around optional hardware. it really comes down to just re-learning how to type. its the difference between feeling a click or hearing a click. Either way you're looking down at the keyboard when you type to find the letters you want. Do that, and you will never 'need' those optional devices again. for me its about keeping it streamlined and simple and being freed from the keyboard. 1 device, fast input. no extras to lug around. what I will be a fan about is when they release the mac tablet. multi touch keyboard on screen in a tablet form factor full powered computer. sweet.
    Last edited by brianturney; 05-29-2009 at 09:48 AM.

  13. #33
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    What is with there MASSIVE posts, I actually can't be arsed reading them. Why can't they just come with their own software instead of using Apples.

    Pre is going to fail miserably, iPhone 3rd gen is going to mureder it!!

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    Personally, I think what the big deal is this. Historically Palm was the ONLY OS that supported virtually every Computer OS. They are STILL the only ones that come with the CD including both Mac and PC software (Yes iTunes is compatible with both with download). They do not make full computers or OS for said full sized machines, and until iPhone Apple often recommended Palm to clients. Does it not make sense that Apple and Palm keep this relationship? 1) Apple can still sell iTunes music to CDMA users (currently not an option for one-device seekers) and people who prefer the new web os! 2) They don't HAVE to build a second device like everyone else is. Face it, everyone is different and no amount of ranting about keyboard this. Or bluetooth that. Is going to change that. I have a 3G, a storm and a BB 8220. I was playing with the new androids yesterday. I give HTC kudos about their Rogers Android launch. They built 2 devices. One with key board one without. Was that so hard? That choice alone gives them a slight edge.

    Final note. I may be new here, but been on forums since 2002. it will always amaze me how people will rant on about some thing that has nothing to do with the subject. We're talking about iTunes compatability, not compairing it to iPhone. Or arguing keyboard/no keyboard. There are thousands of threads out there for that.

    Is pre an iPhone killer? My question is does it need to be? It's different, hoorah for innovation! Without innovation the iPhone would not exist either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianturney View Post
    haha. indeed. sorry no on the macbook wheel. haha. though, some day, you will see something, sometime, somewhere, replace the keyboard before you die. CRT's, vacuum tubes, floppy disks, cassette tapes, keyboards..
    IMO you can't really make that comparison. All of those things either significantly improve storage, video quality or save a TON of space. There is no way you can argue a slide-out keyboard is to a touch screen keyboard what a CRT is to an LCD or LED screen. The size difference doesn't compare. Just because keyboards are older technology doesn't automatically make them worse than a touch screen. So you like your touch screens. Good for you. Why don;t you just drop this silly back and forth?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sziklassy View Post
    The OP all too hastily assumes (if this is true) that Apple is not aware of this, and if they are, that Apple wouldn't allow it. Is it at all possible that Palm came to Apple and got permission for this? Surely a company like Palm isn't foolish enough to take such actions without consent are they?
    Unless they want the press. I mean, Apple would make a stink and that would only cause more press about them and their device and how it syncs with iTunes.

    Frankly, though, I hope they got permission, because with the DRM-less music, maybe Apple is hoping for a boost in download sales...?

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    Focusing on the facts, Apple started this thing 2 years ago. They deserve and have received tons of credit for this innovation. Your childish attitudes should be aimed to the fact that Apple set the bar for the future. The Pre will come out of the box much like the iPhone did. New, innovative, and very plain Jane.

    Even if the Pre came out exactly even with the iPhone in features, 3.0 will raise the bar. As the Pre catches on, it will mature much as the iPhone, but in different ways.

    Remember that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Hard core iPhoners should be proud that others are attempting to go in that direction.

    I've had an iPhone since day 1. I played with the Pre at CES and have been following it's development. The touch gesture screen is about the only thing that the two phones have in common...and even the screens are very, very different. There are so many phone feature possibilities that no phone will have everything. A company just needs to pick it's priorities and run with it. And to pick out a feature and use it to dis another phone is just lame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02589 View Post
    Remember that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Hard core iPhoners should be proud that others are attempting to go in that direction.
    But the media looks at everything touch as an attempted affront to the iPhone. While consumers actually look at them as iPhone knock-offs.

    Just like the iPod. Every other MP3 player is seen as an alternative to the iPod.

  19. #39
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    I have had a PRE since yesterday.


    My roommate works for sprint and service manager etc they gave him one for free to play with. The phone isnt bad at all. It has a really cheap feel too it once you slide it out for keyboard. Feels like it would break easily. The touch isnt as good as the iphone but isnt bad at all. The browsing is nice but the screen isnt as big as the iphone and the detail isnt as great. Has some nice options. Its pretty light. I would rather have the iphone tho...

  20. #40
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    what is the big deal if a phone syncs with iTunes. Really i wouldnt care less if a phone DOES NOT sync with iTunes. I use iTunes, many a times, purely out of necessity because iPhone/iPod ONLY syncs with it. I would actually love to try an alternative which gives me more flexibility. Personally, I dont think Pre should be flaunting this capability as a real great advantage.

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