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04-30-2011, 04:55 AM #21
I just think that u guys r so ignorant and shouldnt be aloud to post anything we r all people and that's what we will always be
04-30-2011, 06:15 AM #22
It's just a game..."You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not"
04-30-2011, 07:28 AM #23
04-30-2011, 08:48 AM #24
I'll buy it if they make the people scream "Arriba!" when they fly out of the back of the truck.
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04-30-2011, 09:42 AM #25
I work with an immigrant population (not all of whom are here legally). If they want to educate themselves and get a job, so what? That's what America is about. If they break the law (real crime, not just coming here), they can be punished like everybody else when they are caught (except for politicians, of course).
As Ben Franklin once said, "Let's invite over a bunch of immigrants and build cars."
(Actually the Firesign Theatre said that, but I love that line.)
There are, perhaps, twelve+ million illegal immigrants in America. We are talking Brown people here, of course. No one seems to mind illegal Germans or Swedes or any other White folks coming here illegally, And there are about 300 million of "us." And that twelve million, for the most part, works at low-paying jobs that "us" (sic) don't want. I drive by the fields every day, and there "they" are, working jobs no one else wants. Because I sure don't see all the shiny white faces of the folks bemoaning "illegal immigrants" out there with them, bent over in the heat or cold or rain, picking the food all Americans and much of the rest of the world likes to eat.
Now, of course, when "they" become fully assimilated, "they" will start moving up the socio-economic ladder and then may begin getting jobs "us" (sic, again) want. But then the Italians did that to the English and the Germans who came here first, and then the Irish came here and had to work their way up, and then the Eastern Europeans, and the Asians, and then the Boat People. That's how America works.
Using the words "illegal immigrants" these days is code for "Mexicans," even though many people also come here from Central or South America, looking for a better way of life. Sound familiar? Why did your ancestors get on that boat to come here? Were they greeted with open arms when they arrived? I doubt it.
And before you go getting all high and mighty, a careful reading of the history of this country might be in order. The English came here and took land from the Indians already here. Then they took more land. And more land. Then "we" acted in a traitorous manner towards "our" lawful King and took the land from England. Then "we" chased more Indians into the swamps of Florida, marched them to Oklahoma to reservations, and pretty much wiped out the rest (including the Plains Indians and the really peaceful ones on the West Coast). Yes, we bought some land from France (how did they own it? They stole it from the... you guessed it...the Indians living there). Then "we" created a reason to have a war over Texas, started the Mexican-American war, took the entire Western part of the country away from Mexico, and gave them some money for their trouble (as if they had a choice, it was a done deal). Then we bought Alaska from the Russians (how did THEY own it? Oh, yeah, they stole it from the ... oh, you know who). We took Hawaii for the fruit (read up on Mr. Dole, he was a real sweetheart, he tried to - well he did- circumvent the direct orders of our president). And let's not talk about how we got rid of Spain, and how we got our colonies.... er... territories.
Our hands are dirty. Pointing those dirty hands at a bunch of Brown people who want to come here and work is to ignore our history. To say, well, it wasn't me doesn't absolve you ("us") of our (mis)deeds.
Oh, and as I tell my students (legal or not), LEARN OUR LANGUAGE. You are here in "our" country. Learn the language of your new country. I hate!!!! "press one for English, press two for Spanish."
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04-30-2011, 10:19 AM #26
The game looks awesome though.
04-30-2011, 10:34 AM #27
if it doesnt get approved, release it on Cydia!
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04-30-2011, 10:37 AM #28
Damn, Totally misread the title, thought it was about people getting caught smuggling drugs in their iPhones for something
04-30-2011, 10:38 AM #29
There was no "legality" to contend with when staking claim on a previously undiscovered continent.
The ancestors of Anglo-Americans engaged in a mutual war with the indigenous - and won. That's how war works - if you win then the land is yours. How and why, exactly, do you think countries are formed, hmm? Every country had to fight for existence. Every - last - one of them. And don't go thinking that the native Indians were all innocent and peaceful - they were brutal warriors that would raid raid, kill, and rape innocents on the borders of their respective lands, just as most invading armies of the past. Heck, you should be glad that more civilized minds ultimately prevailed (without that we wouldn't have Apple, or that keyboard your tapping away on - just to keep relevant here).
Countries can go to war for whatever reason they want - you think they asked permission from an Indian legal court before invading? To drive this point home, we can still declare war on a whim today - Obama just went to war a few weeks ago with no Congressional permission, and with absolutely no threat looming to the American peoples.
I can't stand when people get all confused about history by injecting/ projecting their modern prejudices, politics, and world-view onto people of the past. You think anyone cared about 'green' energy during the Industrial Revolution? Ha! People were more worried about when they were next going to eat. Only after Indians were wiped out (and thus rendered a non-threat) could soft, bleeding-hearts come out and mourn the passing of their culture. That bleeding heart is accepted and revered, unfortunately, in modern culture, but if you were to put yourself on the front lines between cultures at the time, that bleeding heart would get cut from your chest with a tomahawk - they didn't care.
Sure, there were some peaceful Indians, but they only came to be because of survival: their young warriors were all killed, thus no hunting or food - they were effectively broken. They were only peaceful as a means of survival, not out of some moral obligation to whites, nature, or their gods. If they could have stood up and chopped down every white man/ woman on the planet to protect their way of life they would have. That's not immoral, that's just survival; the will to live as one wishes. In this regard I don't blame native Americans for fighting: good for them! I'm not arguing for who's right or wrong here - only the reality of the situation.
Illegal immigration is simply bad for this country. For any country. It always will be. Life isn't 'fair' by any means, and it never will be. If you want to move into territories without the permission of its inhabitants, that is an act of war as far as I'm concerned - then all bets are off - may the best survivor win! You wouldn't want some person (that doesn't speak your language) walking into your living room and standing over you and your kids, would you? I don't know about you, but that survival instinct would kick in and I would absolutely do whatever it took to remove that person from my house. In that way, this goes beyond what is legal - legality only goes as far as it can be enforced by an organization or government. Survival, on the other hand, is imbued within each and every one of us, independent of the consequences.
04-30-2011, 10:56 AM #30
My parents where born in Colombia. They worked very hard and managed to become citizens of this country. My brother and sister, as well as myself where all born in New York. If my parents could come here legally, why can't others? I don't like illegal aliens because they are potentially untrackable criminals. All you peace lovers need to realize that they are breaking the law of a country they don't belong to, and putting us all in the same danger the law was put there to protect us from in the first place. I dont intend to offend anybody, but this is my whole-hearted opinion on the matter.
04-30-2011, 11:21 AM #31
04-30-2011, 11:27 AM #32
And on illegal immigration? It's illegal simple as that, I don't care if you legally immigrate, I actually think it's great that people come to America LEGALLY. but if you come here illegally and never pay any tax but your sales tax, that is WRONG. I think the gov't should track down all illegals and say "here is the stuff to apply for citizenship, fill it out and turn it in within 6 months or you will be deported." it's as simple as that.
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04-30-2011, 11:30 AM #33
"Heck, you should be glad that more civilized minds ultimately prevailed"
Ooooh, you REALLY shouldn't have written that particular line.
What makes you think American Indians weren't "civilized?" Their clothes? Their customs? The color of their skins? We know that all cultural groups have the same bell curve in terms of intelligence. No one group is "smarter" than any other. And "civilized" is in the eye of the beholder. The first major city in the Americas was located near present-day Mexico City. Cities in the Americas rivaled those in Europe in both beauty and services.
They (many of them) were highly civilized. Maybe not in a way that YOU would recognize. Your ethnocentricity does not automatically make another culture less civilized than yours.
"There was no "legality" to contend with when staking claim on a previously undiscovered continent."
What? The indigenous peoples living here had "discovered" the continent some 40,000-60,000 years previously. WHITES from Europe hadn't discovered it, yes.
I walk down the street and "discover" your house, break in, and steal your stuff. It's legal? I'm not sure where you learned your logic, but, no, it's not.
As to the fact that winners write the history books, yes.
As to "might makes right," no.
I'm not a "bleeding heart" about Indian culture. I am a historian who understands what happened here and why. If you actually read mainstream history books (even our current school textbooks), you would see that we as a nation are coming to some sort of understanding as to what Europeans actually did when they got to the Americas.
Illegal immigration is not bad for this country. If you enjoy eating oranges, lemons, strawberries, lettuce, other vegetables, etc., you need to understand that farmers need laborers to plant and harvest those crops. There aren't enough "legal" laborers to do (or who want to do) that labor. So farmers hire anyone who wants a job. How is that bad? The money they get paid includes social security, which they can't get, so it goes in the general fund for the rest of us. They buy goods and services with their wages. Yes, they get services as well (in education and health care), and yes, some of them break the law and we have to pay for that. But every cultural group that arrived before them was the same. We just had an attitude then of, the more the merrier. Now we "ration" entry into the U.S. But they are coming for the same reasons your ancestors came here. How is that bad? You can parrot current blather on TV or blogs, but that doesn't make it correct. Illegal immigrants are not ruining our country. WE are, by our actions, attitudes, and who we elect to represent us. America is a great country. We just have to figure out what we stand for and get back to it, or we will continue to ruin ourselves. We are 300,000,000. They are 12,000,000. Let's do the math: Ten percent of 300,000,000 is 30,000,000. If illegal immigrants number about 12,000,000, they are much less than five percent of our population. They aren't the problem. They just want to work and have a better life. We are our own problem. Let's put the blame where it belongs, not on a small group of people who are just trying to become Americans.
Edit: "It happened nearly 100 years ago" Where did you learn history? It happened in 1911? Read your history books about where Indians were placed. Oklahoma, wasn't it? And it wasn't in 1912, either.
"to be frank, is annoying!" Well, to you. You are reaping the benefits. If it was your land, you wouldn't be so happy about it.
"I know some German people and they say there is no animosity between them and Jews even though only about 50 years ago the Nazis tried to wipe their race off the face of the earth, and all our ancestors did was fight a was and win!" I know some Jewish people who aren't over it. The vast majority of Jewish people aren't over it. Jewish people don't even live in Germany anymore, for obvious reasons. Your logic is boggling. Germans killed Jews. What does it matter what Germans say now about their feelings towards Jews? Ask a Jew (or an American Indian) how they feel. They weren't the aggressors. The Germans killed two out of every three Jews in the world. White Americans killed 90+% of American Indians. Who cares what you, a white person, feels about all the dead Indians? Who cares what Germans feel about Jews?
If you are going to discuss this (and, of course, this started about a fairly racist video game) at least have your facts straight and use logic that is, well, logical. You have the right to believe anything you like, you have the right to agree with someone else of like mind, but if you publish those beliefs publicly, be prepared to have your beliefs questioned by actual facts.
Last edited by mr117; 04-30-2011 at 07:46 PM. Reason: next post aboveSenior
04-30-2011, 11:44 AM #34
It's funny because no one who is here legally would want to actually take these jobs. So this website is kinda saying "you have a problem with me being here? Ok, then you go right ahead and do my job"
Last edited by CabooseLoL; 04-30-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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04-30-2011, 11:46 AM #35
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04-30-2011, 11:58 AM #36
How do you know what American Indians would have done if they hadn't been wiped out? Maybe they would have invented and used toilets and iPhones. Or maybe they wouldn't and only Europeans and Asians would have those things. I don't follow your logic.
And no, we can't change what was done. We can, however, recognize it, understand our actions, and try to improve our society so that we don't repeat those actions. We don't HAVE to be bigoted and ethnocentric.
If you don't learn the lessons of history, you are doomed to repeat them.
By the way, if you want to get the shivers, read about the Indian schools set up by Richard Henry Pratt.
Knowledge is power.
Edit: CabooseLoL: VERY funny!!!!!
Last edited by mr117; 04-30-2011 at 12:00 PM.Senior
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04-30-2011, 12:03 PM #37
This is a pretty stimulating debate, lol. People are pretty polarized about illegal immigration just like people are about abortion (no one says oh I don't care, they are usually on one side or the other)
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04-30-2011, 12:25 PM #38
04-30-2011, 01:08 PM #39
So..........anyone have a comment on the GAME?
04-30-2011, 01:08 PM #40
Lol. Thought this topic was about a game. Not the economic instability of this country. Hahaha
Smuggle truck/Snuggle truck
I play smuggle truck everyday, in real life. Except it's not immigrants I'm driving around.
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