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Thread: Cydia Acquires Rock.app
09-12-2010, 06:19 AM #261
What about us users who can't purchase through Cydia Store?
In Macedonia neither PayPal or AmazonPayments work, because Macedonia isn't in the "supported countries" list.
Is there any hope for us?
Because as much as I hate to say this (without being accused of sounding like a hypocrite) our only way to use Cydia apps is through getting the pirated copies of them.
I really hope to get an answer from saurik.
09-12-2010, 07:12 AM #262
When you buy a product in the Cydia Store, that purchase is tied to your account. As these accounts are handled by Google/Facebook, I cannot help you with a lost password, so unless you are forgetting your username (which people do) there is nothing I can do to help you with your license.
Meanwhile, there have only been three or four users to date who have had a payment not complete due to some error on my end; each time this has happened I have immediately fixed the bug; 99% of users who believe that their payment got lost forward me a "receipt" from Amazon that clearly is not a payment :(.
Finally, the only thing I can help with regarding the actual products you get are "I would like a refund". Users come to me expecting me to explain why this app that I don't even use (and that I often don't even understand why anyone would want, despite knowing full well that tens of thousands of people seem to think that weird app is useful) didn't work for them... you need to contact the developer, and Cydia is really clear about this.
The one thing I will admit to (which wasn't even brought up as a complaint in this entire thread) is that I am not always as "responsive" as people want me to be with refund requests, but at least I (eventually) honor them, unlike either Apple or Rock Your Phone, both of which have "no refunds" policies.
Seriously: I have begged and even at times /pleaded/ with repositories to run some automated scripts on their themes to upgrade them for WinterBoard and to stop accepting SummerBoard themes for distribution, but in the two years since WinterBoard was released this has never been able to happen.
Now, that said, I really am working on handling this kind of support better (through some crazy technological means), but I have a really difficult time actually finding people who actually understand this ecosystem enough to actually be able to read the e-mails that I get and actually comprehend them, are responsible enough to actually hold down a job doing it, and are able to do it in a reasonably responsive fashion, all at the same time.
I mean, hell: Rock released a little notice about this acquisition and on their employee list it indicated that their support guy quit after what sounded like he was on the job for a really short period of time... that is a really difficult job that no one is capable of doing, so the real goal is setting up the system so that you never have to contact me. :(
That said, I want ratings, but I am also the kind of person who wants things to be done in a way that is actually valuable and provably useful before I'm going to throw my weight behind it existing in the ecosystem. Like, for the record: the concept of "average rating" isn't mathematically valid the way that pretty much everyone tries to do it, which sucks and makes sorting by rating mostly useless.
Also, for the record, developers get 70%, and "I" (my company) get "what's left". It needs to be noted that 7-11% goes to PayPal, 5-6% goes to the EU (amortized 0-25% VAT, which Rock wasn't even paying), I cover the costs for all of the bandwidth used to host the recent jailbreaks as well as firmware umbrella (many terabytes per month) in addition to Cydia's core packages (which are all free and not even ad supported), I have employees helping out with things (which includes some of the really active community members whom I occasionally have compensated for work they've done for the greater good), lawyers/accountants are always expensive, and I also have been paying a lot for the redundant storage costs for the >300 million SHSH blobs I have on file (with a running acquisition rate of like >10,000/minute).
As for seeing your sales, Cydia provides live raw customer database dumps from which you can determine any kind of statistic you need (as well as a zoomable reconfigurable chart which you can use to browse your payments without resorting to low-level tricks). You are supposed to be able to get information from how this works from your repository, but apparently not all of the repositories provide the same level of service.
Last edited by saurik; 09-12-2010 at 08:50 AM. Reason: screwed up the formatting somewhat
09-12-2010, 07:33 AM #263
I would like to know if there is some hiccup in the transition. Cydia shows that I have 2 updates available to purchased apps, mywi and tlert. When I try to upgrade it says http://apt.modmyi.com POSIX: connection refused and it kicks me back to cydia. Rock doesn't show these apps as being updated at all. Been dealing with this for 2 days now. what's up?
09-12-2010, 07:34 AM #264
Seriously: you should fire your repository for not telling you about these features. For the record, every developer/artist who has complained about Cydia's feature set on this thread uses ModMyi, and every developer who has defended me uses BigBoss. Meanwhile, I keep getting sent more and more themes from ModMyi, which I'm really hesitant to approve if this is the kind of support they are going to be getting. I normally try to stay neutral in these issues, but really: this is ludicrous; if I am going to have the relationship with the developer I'm also going to host their damned packages for them. :(
As for paid themes, I have purposely not been "rocking the boat" in Cydia while I finish negotiating with Rock. One of the goals is that, by the end of this transition period, I will have replaced the interface in Cydia for browsing paid products to a) include all products and b) have some mechanism for seeing themes (and to the millions of people who wish themes didn't exist: just don't click this button).
09-12-2010, 07:41 AM #265
These ads are not run by me, I have no control over them, and they also should have been rendered in Rock.
Nor, to be clear, do I now or have I ever gotten any money from these advertisements. I do not pay repositories to do the work of tending to hundreds of developers needs, nor do they pay me to be included in Cydia. The ecosystem that I joined, which was created by the guy who wrote Installer, was that repositories are paid by running their own advertisements, and that's the ecosystem we are still living in.
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09-12-2010, 07:50 AM #266
I'm glad this thread is going. I think it has some great ideas and even some bad ones (including one of mine). I can't wait to see the end result of the deal and of this thread.
@Saurik: I was wondering if I could offer to volunteer for you.
Edit: Yes this thread has also answered much misinformation for me. Thanks to those that posed the questions and for Saurik answering them.
Last edited by XavierAlucard; 09-12-2010 at 07:55 AM.
09-12-2010, 07:50 AM #267
09-12-2010, 07:50 AM #268
Sometime I wonder exactly how many in the jailbreak community actually understands anything about how stuff works when they can't even figure out that Cydia (and rock) load html files from the repositories to show info about packages and that the ads are on these pages...
09-12-2010, 07:51 AM #269
09-12-2010, 08:01 AM #270
i really want to thank you again for taking the time to clarify a lot of this for us, and dispell my own personal misunderstanding of how the whole process between you and the repositories works (among other things that led me to speak right out my *****). I think it's definitely time that a lot of us with a vested interest that work out of MMi take the time to start a dialogue with Kyle to help him get a lot of these features we've been missing out on up and running. I would like to point out that for a guy who's had so many more important real-life things to worry about ("E" IS FOR EZRA), it should be up to those of us that benefit from his services to help him get us all on track.
Thanks again Saurik - you really didn't have to do any of this, even starting and maintaining Cydia from the beginning... I really appreciate your dedication to this community.
09-12-2010, 08:27 AM #271
As for broken .list files, did you report that issue to the repository? I have tried to make APT resilient against corrupt repositories (it is not by default), but may very well have failed. That said, this may have been before I released those changes 6-7 months ago? Regardless, I'd rather just fix the APT list parser to not require this.
That said, I believe that the goal of Featured Packages and Themes is to be a showcase of "awesome" that is unrelated to sales or profits: almost everything on these lists is actually free content. My goals related to this are more to hire people to maintain these lists.
Last edited by saurik; 09-12-2010 at 08:27 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-12-2010, 08:43 AM #272
09-12-2010, 08:56 AM #273
Last edited by saurik; 09-12-2010 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-12-2010, 08:57 AM #274
09-12-2010, 09:12 AM #275
(My current response to this has been to just redesign the entire concept of e-mail for myself: I am almost finished setting up a system where e-mails will all get databased and queried by an iPhone client that lets me play "e-mail triage: the most fun game you could ever imagine, see if you can get the next highest score!" during idle time. I am actually really excited by this, as e-mail triage either only getting done "every now and then" or simply driving people insane until they could no longer stand reading the e-mails were my issues with handling support, and while I seem to be immune to the latter, I need to get some actual coding and negotiating in somewhere, and therefore have needed a faster platform for doing it.)
As for implementation details, APT doesn't track that, and right now neither do the repositories. Even if they did, I actually don't trust them to do this accurately, which led to another key design decision behind Changes: it must rely on no data from the repository. The reason for this is because Changes acts like a giant advertisement feed, and back in the days of Installer packages would get "bumped" to the top of the list in order to force people to see them again; repositories competed to see who could keep their popular package on the to, and the entire "sort by release date" feature was useless.
Now, Rock actually /could/ implement that feature, because they centralized repository updates, but even then the data isn't really "accurate", because they were just seeing the major refreshes from repositories. Like, if ModMyi pushes their repository at 2pm and BigBoss does at 3pm, but the packages in each were accumulated over the course of the previous 24 hours, do we really care what order those repositories went online? I just don't see the point.
Last edited by saurik; 09-12-2010 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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09-12-2010, 09:14 AM #276
09-12-2010, 09:17 AM #277
09-12-2010, 09:18 AM #278
Looks like it is already screwed up. If you try to update intelliborn programs in cydia you get connection refused errors. You can not even install a bunch of apps now. Mass host unreachable errors also. Nice job on a smooth transition. NOT! Before you announce something you might want to make sure it actually works. How about getting apt.modmyi.com back online!
09-12-2010, 09:27 AM #279
Mario is not my idol - I just get frustrated when people criticize Rock for a few issues when the majority of their work and presence in this community has produced positive results that helped us all.
Lastly, I'm man enough to admit that I was wrong and I, like many others do not claim to know it all and am in a constant state of learning. Your comments were rude and uncalled for.
Last edited by TCcentex; 09-12-2010 at 09:33 AM.
09-12-2010, 09:27 AM #280
Antman217 has an iPhone 3G but I only have an iPod 2g. WHY MUST ROCK DIE? I'm very sad