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Thread: Death Grip Lawsuit Coming?

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Originally Posted by ClerkDante Apple has made no statement even remotely like that. They aren't promising anything at this point, let alone the implied sneaky act of intentionally dragging it
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClerkDante View Post
    Apple has made no statement even remotely like that. They aren't promising anything at this point, let alone the implied sneaky act of intentionally dragging it out until your warranty expires. Let's remember this IS a company who routinely covers products well beyond warranty time as a service to it's customers.
    It's frankly a rather terrible one. The damn things been out a week for god's sake. Try owning an Xbox 360. My launch unit has been swapped/repaired 4 different times, and every one took massive escalation on my part to get it covered by the company.

    Is there a problem? Appears to be (though likely affecting a much smaller percentage than all the complaining would seemingly imply), but for god's sake people, give a company who has a very strong track record of doing the right thing some time to, in fact, do the right thing.

    And again, if you're still unhappy, just return the damn thing, or better yet, sell it on the net for a profit and go back to your 3GS and get on with your life.

    It's just a cell phone people. Suing because of signal issues a week after launch, when returning/selling is a very viable option, is among the most absurd things I've heard in ages.
    People like you don't get it. We have either 14 or 30 days to make a decision on the damn phone. Apple hasn't even made an official statement whether or not there is a problem, so know some of us are down to 7 or 8 days.

    So we have to make a decision based on our hope that apple does the right thing, which, contrary to what you are saying, hasn't always been the way they handle things.

    Add to that the fact that some of us have a relationship with at&t that, to some extent at least forces us to not only decide about keeping this phone but potentially changing, in my case anyways, a dozen phones and lines from one carrier to another. Its not the same as some 16 year old kid or a housewife who's contract is up and can go anywhere she wants.

    To complicate things even more, at&t has no truly similar phones right now, unless you count blackberries which I don't.

    It's also not really just a cell phone, it is a tool that I use for business every day. A tool that I am entering into a contract with a company for two years, which will, for all intents lock me into the use of that phone for those two years, at a cost of over $1200 for that time frame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosestache View Post
    Well thats not quite right. If you really loved the coffee the maker made, and you were told, gee just wait a little while and we will have a fix that makes it work correctly
    Quote Originally Posted by Moosestache View Post
    People like you don't get it. We have either 14 or 30 days to make a decision on the damn phone. Apple hasn't even made an official statement whether or not there is a problem, so know some of us are down to 7 or 8 days.
    Apple hasn't asked you to wait. They've specifically said that there's nothing wrong with the phone and that you shouldn't expect any kind of fix. I really don't see how it can any more official than the CEO, Steve Jobs, tells everyone that the phone is fine and if you're having issues, just to hold the phone differently.

    No one's stringing you along. No one's trying to get you past the return date. Everything is perfectly clear, you just don't want to face it and that's not really Apple's problem. That would just be yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moosestache View Post
    It's also not really just a cell phone, it is a tool that I use for business every day. A tool that I am entering into a contract with a company for two years, which will, for all intents lock me into the use of that phone for those two years, at a cost of over $1200 for that time frame.
    So return it. I'm sure your business will survive being run on a 3GS and not on a 4.
    Last edited by dhamien; 07-01-2010 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhamien View Post
    Apple hasn't asked you to wait. They've specifically said that there's nothing wrong with the phone and that you shouldn't expect any kind of fix. I really don't see how it can any more official than the CEO, Steve Jobs, tells everyone that the phone is fine and if you're having issues, just to hold the phone differently.

    No one's stringing you along. No one's trying to get you past the return date. Everything is perfectly clear, you just don't want to face it and that's not really Apple's problem. That would just be yours.
    Actually, you are wrong. Apple hasn't officially stated anything yet. I have been told by my apple rep handling my case that there is something wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosestache View Post
    Actually, you are wrong. Apple hasn't officially stated anything yet. I have been told by my apple rep handling my case that there is something wrong.
    So when Apple's CEO, Steve Jobs, says that there's nothing wrong, you don't count that as official. Fair enough ...
    We're all just toymakers in the game of life.

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    Actually, I have seen that quote called into question for it's authenticity in a number of places. You do realize, I could post an email here and tell you it was from Mr. Jobs when it actually wasn't, right??

    Right now Apple is in shut down mode to the public, trying to figure out what to do. I figure it will go one of two ways.

    1. It is fixable and they either end up with a software patch, or agree to send out bumpers which either fixes or ends up making the problem livable. I hope this is what happens, but the clock is really ticking on this one.

    2. They go into full denial mode. We get official statements from apple saying there is no problem, it is acting as it is supposed to, and go f*ck yourselves. You say that this is what they have already done, I don't think so, they may, but a supposed email from Steve Jobs doesn't really make anything final, he's just trying to pump the phones out the door,knowing that people won't want to cancel their orders.

    If #2 occurs that is when the lawsuits will really start.

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    An Apple rep by the name of Jason H. (whom I know personally) out of Northglenn, CO confirmed to me yesterday that the entire staff under the manager who sent out the leaked email, was in fact fired. When I asked why, he simply stated that no one on the team would admit to it so the entire team was fired. It is a stark reality as to the nature of Apple. They are fully willing to overturn the lives, of not only the guilty, but the innocent as well to cover there butts. Tisk tisk Steve Jobs.. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhamien View Post
    That's also a bad analogy. If you lose half your cup of coffee, you've lost something. If you talk to someone on the phone, you won't feel a difference if it's 100% reception or 50%. The talk is what is valuable, not the "cleanness" of the sound. If half the words were cut from the conversation, then the analogy would work, but that's not the case here.

    In any case, the guy you quoted is still right. If you bought a coffee maker where half the coffee was lost just by holding the cup, then you'd return it and get your money back. You wouldn't sue anyone.
    100% to 50%? That is a convenient scenario. What about the masses that are seeing 0% and dropped calls? So if the most used feature of a cellphone is to talk and you cannot do that if you hold it a certain way then we have a problem.

    From Wikipedia:
    The procedure for filing a class action is to file suit with one or several named plaintiffs on behalf of a proposed class. The proposed class must consist of a group of individuals or business entities that have suffered a common injury or injuries. Typically these cases result from an action on the part of a business or a particular product defect or policy that applied to all proposed class members in a uniform manner. After the complaint is filed, the plaintiff must file a motion to have the class certified. In some cases class certification may require additional discovery in order to determine if the proposed class meets the standard for class certification.

    We will see what happens but if:
    1. There is a legit problem with the iPhone
    2. Apple does not recall said iPhone

    Then you will see a lawsuit. There will be enough people that will consider software updates and bumpers unacceptable. We will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksti View Post
    100% to 50%? That is a convenient scenario. What about the masses that are seeing 0% and dropped calls? So if the most used feature of a cellphone is to talk and you cannot do that if you hold it a certain way then we have a problem.

    From Wikipedia:
    The procedure for filing a class action is to file suit with one or several named plaintiffs on behalf of a proposed class. The proposed class must consist of a group of individuals or business entities that have suffered a common injury or injuries. Typically these cases result from an action on the part of a business or a particular product defect or policy that applied to all proposed class members in a uniform manner. After the complaint is filed, the plaintiff must file a motion to have the class certified. In some cases class certification may require additional discovery in order to determine if the proposed class meets the standard for class certification.

    We will see what happens but if:
    1. There is a legit problem with the iPhone
    2. Apple does not recall said iPhone

    Then you will see a lawsuit. There will be enough people that will consider software updates and bumpers unacceptable. We will see.
    How about returning it if you're unsatisfied? Seriously, what's wrong with you? If you're not happy with it, return it. It's that simple.

    People like you just blow my mind.
    We're all just toymakers in the game of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksti View Post
    100% to 50%? That is a convenient scenario. What about the masses that are seeing 0% and dropped calls? So if the most used feature of a cellphone is to talk and you cannot do that if you hold it a certain way then we have a problem.

    From Wikipedia:
    The procedure for filing a class action is to file suit with one or several named plaintiffs on behalf of a proposed class. The proposed class must consist of a group of individuals or business entities that have suffered a common injury or injuries. Typically these cases result from an action on the part of a business or a particular product defect or policy that applied to all proposed class members in a uniform manner. After the complaint is filed, the plaintiff must file a motion to have the class certified. In some cases class certification may require additional discovery in order to determine if the proposed class meets the standard for class certification.

    We will see what happens but if:
    1. There is a legit problem with the iPhone
    2. Apple does not recall said iPhone

    Then you will see a lawsuit. There will be enough people that will consider software updates and bumpers unacceptable. We will see.
    Why is software updates unacceptable? if it is a problem with the iOS then why do a hardware recall?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhamien View Post
    How about returning it if you're unsatisfied? Seriously, what's wrong with you? If you're not happy with it, return it. It's that simple.

    People like you just blow my mind.
    Wow you have become a broken record. Enjoy your apple gear in Europe, I'm glad it makes you happy and you have no issues with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosestache View Post
    Wow you have become a broken record. Enjoy your apple gear in Europe, I'm glad it makes you happy and you have no issues with it.
    The very same could be said of the "let's take up swords against our opressors" crowd. You bought something, you're not happy with it, take the damn thing back.

    You'd do it with clothes, food or virtually any other consumer goods, why does this, just this one thing, need to result in a series of mindless, pointless lawsuits to clutter up an already overwhelmed system?

    The man's just exhibiting a bit of common sense, that seems to be escaping those who feel the need to seek retribution for the horrible crime that's been committed against them.

    Really dude, if a cell phone with questionable reception is the biggest problem in your life right now, thank you lucky stars and get over yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClerkDante View Post
    You'd do it with clothes, food or virtually any other consumer goods, why does this, just this one thing, need to result in a series of mindless, pointless lawsuits to clutter up an already overwhelmed system?
    This is pretty much the core. You'd just return any other product you weren't happy with, but with regards to this particular product, there's no holding back. Some people just go all out.

    If this was a case of a specific car not breaking properly or people getting electrocuted by a coffee maker they bought, then sure, sue and make sure there's recalls so no one else gets harmed. But we're talking about a phone.

    It's as if some people love their Apple so much and just can't accept it not being perfect for them, so they'd rather punish the firm than choose another product. Well, you can in fact punish the firm, if that's what you want. Return the product and don't buy from them again. Simple, no? Don't worry, Moosestache, I know you won't get it this time either.
    We're all just toymakers in the game of life.

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    I doubt you know what kind of person myself or many of the people on the forum are.

    And again, the point of class action lawsuits is not because some people are bitter because they purchased a faulty product. It is fortunate for you that there are people that class action, thus forcing some companies not to try to pull as fast one over consumers.

    It is also funny that you are so ardently defending a company that has quite healthy margins off of your purchases. Think they care about you nearly as much as you care for their products?

    Class action them so that other consumers can be informed about the problems with the phone. Class action them so they will do due diligence and not come out with crap.

    And I do not own an iPhone 4. I was going to buy one, but I always wait in case there are any bugs. And I will wait until these issues are sorted out.

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    How is Apple pulling a fast one on consumers again? The phone's been out for a week. That's 7 days. A flaw has been found to be present on the current design while at the same time providing a better service (the same report Anandtech presented showing the flaw also showed how if you avoid the death grip or use a cover, the 4 is better than the 3GS). A company just can't come out and say "welp, we messed up" right off the bat until they perform extensive testing.

    First off, they need to find where the problem is. They can't just say "oh it's the antenna because these people online posted a YouTube video" They need to verify all internal and hardware components to pinpoint the exact point where the issue(s) occur. Then they need to make the appropriate changes. Chances are, this will require a small hardware revision. But before you get to that step, they need to deal with the 2+ MILLION units already sold and out in the open. Can they get away with giving free covers? gift cards? design a new cover to counteract the death grip and give for free?

    So they handle current costumers however they feel like. Now it's up to look forward. Engineers gotta rework the damn thing on all steps of the way as far as design, manufacturing, and putting together while at the same time stopping production on the current 4th gen. Thankfully, this could be an easy fix so it shouldn't take THAT long, but it'll take time. In this "meantime" there won't be any iPhone 4's available AT ALL anywhere in the world. This means countries where it hasn't launch won't have them at all. Supply for repairs and refurbish units will be nonexistent.

    You're an idiot if you think Apple will come a week later after launch and take a stand on the issue. It'll take them weeks, months even before they come out and say "After EXTENSIVE research, we've found this, this, and that. Here's how we're dealing with it and what the plan is"

    A class action lawsut is going to achieve NOTHING since there's a very good chance Apple is already working on it. The reason that guy got fired is because he's leaking private corporate information. This is simply illegal whichever way you want to see it. Apple knows well this is a delicate situation and they're not going to jump into any stance without knowing 120% where the hell they stand.

    So yeah, again, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Apple to tell you what to do. If you're unhappy with the phone, return it and go back to your 3G/3Gs if you're insisting in sticking with the iOS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhamien View Post
    Apple hasn't asked you to wait. They've specifically said that there's nothing wrong with the phone and that you shouldn't expect any kind of fix. I really don't see how it can any more official than the CEO, Steve Jobs, tells everyone that the phone is fine and if you're having issues, just to hold the phone differently.
    You shouldn't have to hold the phone differently cause it loses signal. Thats the whole point of this. Its a phone you can only hold it so many ways and if the way you have to hold it makes it lose reception then something is wrong with the phone.
    Please hit "Thanks!" if I helped you.

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    Just got this email from KCR:

    Thank you for contacting Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff about your iPhone 4 problems. Our firm has now filed a class action complaint in California against Apple and AT&T, seeking relief for everyone who has purchased an iPhone 4. Please email us with your contact information, and we will keep you updated on the progress of the case through email. If the case resolves in favor of iPhone 4 customers, you will receive formal notice under the supervision of the court that oversees the settlement.
    Thanks very much for contacting us, and take care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy View Post
    How is Apple pulling a fast one on consumers again?
    I will assume you are responding to my post. Where did I say "Apple" was pulling a fast one? I did say some companies, but never said anything that would imply I said Apple was one.

    Some people associate lawsuits with greed. I spilt coffee that was too hot on myself or my favourite suit was ruined by the cleaners kind of lawsuits. There is not money to be had from a consumer standpoint in suing Apple. And it is easy to chastize people for doing these things.

    But maybe, just maybe if someone decided to wait in a long line for hours to get an iPhone 4 and then it does not work as it should they should be able to make the company pay.

    And I think we are giving Apple too much credit. I believe they are well aware of what is wrong but they are stalling. And that is probably the truth. And they have had plenty of time. People reported this problem since June 23rd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksti View Post
    It is also funny that you are so ardently defending a company that has quite healthy margins off of your purchases. Think they care about you nearly as much as you care for their products?
    I've bought exactly one Apple product ever, so I'm not here to defend 'my beloved company'. For me, this discussion goes beyond Apple. It's about some, and I hope I don't get too much hate for the next thing I'm going to say, Americans who think suing is the answer to everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicksti View Post
    I will assume you are responding to my post. Where did I say "Apple" was pulling a fast one? I did say some companies, but never said anything that would imply I said Apple was one.

    Some people associate lawsuits with greed. I spilt coffee that was too hot on myself or my favourite suit was ruined by the cleaners kind of lawsuits. There is not money to be had from a consumer standpoint in suing Apple. And it is easy to chastize people for doing these things.

    But maybe, just maybe if someone decided to wait in a long line for hours to get an iPhone 4 and then it does not work as it should they should be able to make the company pay.

    And I think we are giving Apple too much credit. I believe they are well aware of what is wrong but they are stalling. And that is probably the truth. And they have had plenty of time. People reported this problem since June 23rd.
    Your previous post implied that Apple was pulling a fast one. That's what most people would get from your post.

    Listen to yourself: "They should be able to make the company pay." Are you serious? Why does it matter that someone stood in a line for a long time? Did Apple force you to buy their product? Did Apple force you to stand in that line? This sounds more like a personal vendetta.

    It can't really be said more clear than this: Don't like the product, return it. That's what normal people do when they experience something like this.
    We're all just toymakers in the game of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy View Post
    You're an idiot if you think Apple will come a week later after launch and take a stand on the issue. It'll take them weeks, months even before they come out and say "After EXTENSIVE research, we've found this, this, and that. Here's how we're dealing with it and what the plan is"
    Someone is an idiot because they expect a company to do the right thing and admit there is a problem with the product? Maybe that is the problem? You think they need weeks or months and/or extensive testing? Let's get real. They built the phone. They have a team of engineers on payroll already. This is not the Gulf Coast spill; this is a $176 phone. The calls started rolling in June 23rd. We are into July. You get sued because you delay any appropriate action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy View Post
    A class action lawsut is going to achieve NOTHING since there's a very good chance Apple is already working on it. The reason that guy got fired is because he's leaking private corporate information. This is simply illegal whichever way you want to see it. Apple knows well this is a delicate situation and they're not going to jump into any stance without knowing 120% where the hell they stand.
    You are wrong on that one. A class action lawsuit will affect Apple in more than one way. The most immediate way is the bad press. And that line entry in their financials that has legal expenses will be a little bigger.

    The whole argument can easily be reversed as well. If you are happy with your iphone then keep it. If you are unhappy with it then return it. If you do not want to join the lawsuit then do not since it will not affect you.

    Quote Originally Posted by dhamien View Post
    Your previous post implied that Apple was pulling a fast one. That's what most people would get from your post.

    Listen to yourself: "They should be able to make the company pay." Are you serious? Why does it matter that someone stood in a line for a long time? Did Apple force you to buy their product? Did Apple force you to stand in that line? This sounds more like a personal vendetta.

    It can't really be said more clear than this: Don't like the product, return it. That's what normal people do when they experience something like this.
    My post is uneditted and there for anyone to read. I did not even remotely imply Apple was pulling a fast one on people.

    "And again, the point of class action lawsuits is not because some people are bitter because they purchased a faulty product. It is fortunate for you that there are people that class action, thus forcing some companies not to try to pull as fast one over consumers."

    All that simple says is some companies pull fast ones on consumers. There was absolutely no Apple reference in there whatsoever. For the record I do not believe Apple is pulling a fast one on people.

    For me it comes down to this:

    Apple is rich because of us the consumer. Apple is nothing without us. Some people do not appreciate the way they are being jerked around on this issue. If you do not mind wasting a whole day in a line, then a whole day on the phone with a CSR and leave without a fix to a problem that said rich company does not want to own up to and this all cost you your hard-earned money then that is your approach. But I do not find it unreasonable for someone to sue under those circumstances.

    But we do not see eye to eye so let us leave it at that.
    Last edited by nicksti; 07-01-2010 at 06:06 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    I think it is unlikely the suit will be certified or come to anything. More than likely, a software fix and possibly free bumpers will make it all go away.

    The suit is a joke.

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