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Thread: Suicide Rash May Prompt Major Pay Hike for iPhone Makers

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Originally Posted by sphangman @Faxmonkey for all your ranting , you facts are full of crap .. i would have thought before taking so much time to go off on
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sphangman View Post
    @Faxmonkey

    for all your ranting , you facts are full of crap .. i would have thought before taking so much time to go off on that monologue you'd have spent a little time ACTUALLY researching what you are saying. Seeing as you couldn't be bothered, let me help you.

    Global Times - Foxconn deaths hit 11

    SpringerLink - Journal Article

    In China, suicide in young women is a problem too


    shame you waffled on really.
    Wikipedia says it's 13 and many others have quoted "13 per 100k" in this very same thread. Accusing me of not having researched the facts is clearly false. It's possible one source or the other is out of date, but more than likely there just isn't any proper reporting in China. Becuase of the way the Chinese government works, lots of figures on these sorts of things for China are often estimates as the government won't release the real numbers. If you can find something more definitive than Wikipedia or the article you linked, then by all means do it.

    Also, as I said, here's a quote from another article:

    Three others were seriously injured in suicide attempts. Compared to the average suicide rate in China, this would seem rather normal. However, workers in factories typically have a much lower suicide rate than the national average. And the number of males committing suicides is unusual. Rural females alone account for half of China's suicides in recent statistics, while urban females account for a portion of the remaining suicides.
    Second of all, The "death toll hits 11", that article is 5 days old. As I said, If you paid attention, you'd see the a new article with the number increasing daily. Also, 16 may have died but I believe a 1 or 2 jumped and did not die, so the number isn't even as bad as it might have been.

    Also, FYI:

    p2pnet news Blog Archive China censors Foxconn deaths scandal: report

    You'll find that link confirms that the death toll is now indeed up to 16, or so it is believed.

    Having established that was indeed correct and accurate in my original post, I'd just like to close by asking:

    "Why did you have such a strong reaction to my post?" You were rude and angry in your response, so clearly I must have hit a nerve -- but I can't for the life of me imagine what nerve. Yes, I implied that you are somewhat complicit in the suffering of others, but I also implicated myself as an iPhone owner. I merely pointed out that this is a universal problem to all electronics manufactured in China and something we, as consumers, should keep in mind.

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    iPhone? More like MyPhone
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucious View Post
    The Suicide rate in China is, I believe, about 13 per 100,000
    The Foxcon complex employs 3-400,000 people so you're looking at 39 - 52 deaths a year if they meet the average for China.
    How is 10 deaths in 5 months excessive?
    1 death is 1 too many but this story does seem to be exaggerating the problem somewhat.
    i agree 100%, could not say better

    Quote Originally Posted by Faxmonkey View Post
    Foxconn only employs 300k in China, they employ another 100k elsewhere. Since they started counting they're up to 16 suicides and that wasn't long ago. We had almost like 1 more per day over the last week, if you weren't paying attention. So way more than 10 in 5 months . . .

    But moreover, the people who tend to kill themselves in don't tend to be young 20 somethings who are gainfully employed with families which pretty much all these people are. If you look at just these people outside of the sphere of Foxconn, they'd be at VERY low risk for suicide.

    There's clearly an issue. I know you want to just use your iPad and not think of it as something that may have contributed to someone elses unhappiness, but sometimes it's necessary to consider unpleasant realities.

    Conditions and pay aren't great anywhere in China, and that's why we get to enjoy cheap chinese made electronics. Foxconn, in particular, is just a victim of their own success. They have so many major deals going that they h ave to keep all their factories running 24 hours a day, and that means they need all their workers to work massive amounts of overtime. They do pay them for this overtime work, but they *require* it. Work overtime or go find another job. Many did go find other jobs, which makes the problem even worse. So now they're hiring nay shmuck with a pulse as long as they're willing to sign a paper saying they'll work 100 hours a week and these people's lives are basically "wake up, work, sleep" with no time for *anything* else.

    So why do they do it? Their families need the money. But come to find out, if an employee commits suicide, their family is given some money as compensation. Given that the money is significant and these people's lives has boiled down to *nothing* but work, it's not surprising that many are starting to take the easy way out and that's why we hear about another suicide practically *every* day of the last week. Sixteen was the last number I heard, but it was only 7 a couple weeks ago, so the rate is very, very high.
    they are doing it for there family, get money. its conditions in china not foxconn. have you seen the dog videos from there, check out how they treat animals. no need to get upset about people dying they have bigger problems over there
    Last edited by nhoj_yelbom; 06-01-2010 at 12:21 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Pressure to work inhumane numbers of hours might easily be the tinderbox required for the propagation of a suicide wave.
    Suicide can be psychologically 'contagious'.
    Google 'suicide' and 'Bridgend' - a town in Wales, UK where a suicide wave broke out amongst teenagers recently.
    There necessarily has to be a 'tinderbox' factor, whether it be economic/social privation or simple genetic predisposition in an area of low genetic diversity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhoj_yelbom View Post
    they are doing it for there family, get money. its conditions in china not foxconn.
    I believe I said that this was not just a problem for Foxconn, but for most of the factory jobs in China. I'm not really singling Foxconn out, they've just, as I said, become a victim of their own success. They need so much labor in order to meet all their contracts that they have to mandate ridiculous amounts of overtime and its seriously reducing the quality of life for their workers to the point where they say "This can be the rest of my life, to support my family, or I can just jump off the building and they'll get a nice fat check from Foxconn in compensation."

    It's easy to see why some of them are doing what they're doing. They literally are doing nothing but work and sleep, and while working they are not allowed to socialize in any way. They are utterly isolated. Work has become their entire lives. It's not a happy existence and they only do it for the money. When there's a shortcut to the money that doesn't involve all the work and unhappiness . . . .

    But yes, there are probably many other factories in china that are worse off and many others that would be in the same situation if the only way they could meet their production quotas was to have shifts running 24 hours and force overtime to do it.

    have you seen the dog videos from there, check out how they treat animals. no need to get upset about people dying they have bigger problems over there
    Really? That's a bigger problem? I love animals too, but if it comes down to the standard of living for people vs animals, I'd rather attend to the welfare of people first.

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