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Originally Posted by IPhone_Man4u makes for more underground apps to play anyway even though some are starting to charge as well, so either way we get screwed when it come...
02-19-2009, 12:45 AM #261
02-19-2009, 01:37 AM #262
02-19-2009, 05:58 AM #263
One mans trash is another mans treasure, if you dont see the value in the app, then dont pay for it. No one is twisting your arm.
However, i do see a point here that some apps are so absurd and retarded that the are just begging to be cracked. Not because the are good or usefull, but because someone feels that the developer is deluded in even thinking of charging for an app.
The "who would pay for this?" mentality. Which im not saying is right, it is not, but there it is.
The main point is, is that no one person should be able to tell another person the value of their own creation. If i make something and charge 99 cents for it, then it is my business to do and not yours. Likewise as a developer, i would expect that some one is eventually going to crack my app. Therefore it is my job to create a better and smarter app, less easily hackable.
Like steve jobs said regarding jailbreaking: its a cat and mouse game.Herp a derp a derp a doooo!
02-19-2009, 08:32 AM #264
I once prayed to God for an iPhone, but quickly found out He didn't work that way...so I stole an iPhone and prayed for His forgiveness.
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself. - Josh Billings
02-19-2009, 03:06 PM #265
Keep in mind that these apps are little more complex in the programming as say old Sierra games from back in the day. That's why they are so small.
Sure there is alot that goes into them, but still.
Never the less they could always do something like, online registration to unlock the game. Email a key to the user that can be integrated with an iTunes sync.
The simple answer is that 1, anything made can be cracked. 2. Anytime someone comes up with a new and innovative way to secure something, someone else turns around and comes up with a new and innovative way to make it unsecure.
There are always options.
Either way, who knows what got under Apples skin.Herp a derp a derp a doooo!
02-19-2009, 03:26 PM #266
Can someone please explain though:
dTunes - an app that promotes and allows the illegal download of music/films/software etc etc. is on the MMi source, which in turn comes as part of Cydia's community sources package and is openly available to whoever jailbreaks their iPhone wihout searching + adding a source
Iinsttalous - promotes and allows the downloading and installation of cracked apps/ipas on the iPhone is a complete taboo, is filtered through this very websites text filter and you have to add a seperate source in Cydia to be able to download it.
If people can appreciate that developers spend X amount of hours developing an app, and people should not be aloud to steal this work for £0, then surely the same people should be able to appreciate that musicians/artists also spend X amount of time on every song/album they release, and people should not be aloud to steal this work for £0
Either dTunes should be removed from the community sources of Cydia, or Iinsttallous added. They are one and the same - allow the consumer to obtain a product, illegally for free.
This is of course assuming that no community source would allow Iinstallous on their repo?The Original Autobot of MMiJesus couldn't turn into a fire engine
LOL -> "Winterboard does not interfere at all with my performance."
Suck it up, Sucker
The Following User Says Thank You to reeko For This Useful Post:
02-19-2009, 03:35 PM #267
02-19-2009, 03:40 PM #268
I agree. dTunes should be removed.He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.
02-19-2009, 04:32 PM #269
well alright then seeing as how we are now going on the slippery slope and removing all offending programs, then they neednto remove every single ringtone and sound effect that isnt an original work, or else the RIAA and the MPAA are going to come knocking with their DMC and claim copyright infringement.
What the hell, lets not stop there either, they also need to remove all of the themes that use images from television shows and movies as they infringe on copyrighted image and likeness.
No fair use act here!Herp a derp a derp a doooo!
02-19-2009, 06:06 PM #270
I'm an artist too and make iPhone themes, and guess what.... I don't charge a penny for it. If somebody likes what I do, hopefully they will click on an add and that way I make 5-10 cents. My belief is that if my work is of higher quality people will want it and money always follows.
02-19-2009, 06:29 PM #271
02-19-2009, 06:36 PM #272
It's going to take a lot of regulation (which will make people unhappy) and acts that will let people know for real that what they're doing is wrong and just because it's easy doesn't mean it's ok to do so. I'm serious when I say the internet could benefit from a wipe/clean start with a better set of rules and standards.
I'll be honest, I used to download music, games, apps. You name it, if it could be downloaded, I downloaded 3 of them. But I realize this was wrong and stupid. Even before I finished college I realize that with little to no effort through a part-time job, some simple budgeting I could not only go legit, but I could also afford pretty much anything and everything I wanted. It's taken me a couple of years to rectify must of my wrong doings, but I've almost completely replaced my 6,000+ music library entirely with DRM-Free bought muskc (either through iTunes+ or Amazon), most of the games I had long ago have been deleted lost and anything I get now I get through Steam (for PC) and AppStore (on the phone) so I don't have to worry about the discs getting lost.
Basically, I'm embracing the legal side of digital distrubution, which makes it just as easy to get what you want without having to worry about silly lawsuits or any moral argument. I payed it for it, it's mine and there's nothing anyone can do about that
02-19-2009, 08:49 PM #273
(Which is why they threatened to sue a girlscout troupe for singing happy birthday around a campfire "you pay for popsicle sticks for crafts don't you, well you should pay a licensing fee to sing happy birthday", an actual quote by the way)
These unions would have you believe that they are losing "millions of dollars", which by the way, was proven false in court.
They aren't losing money at all. They are losing money on producing CD's that no one buys, not because people are downloading them, but because no one cares enough about the artist to buy them.
The artists are saying "download our music", the RIAA is saying "you download and we will sue". So what do you do?
Me, anymore, I listen mostly to Creative Commons stuff, and have no qualms about downloading it because they WANT YOU TOO!
It's a form of distribution that the old business model doesn't recognize.
Let's put it this way, what's the difference if I go out and d/l Stabbing Westwards Darkest Days or Pink Floyd's "The Wall" vs. going out and buying used at my local used CD Store?
Neither will see any of that money. The RIAA doesn't see any of that money. The owner of the store sees that money, and I bought it cheaper then I would have had I purchased it new.
They still lose, but God Bless me, I have a hard copy that supports the artist...
It makes no sense.
Same goes for certain games and movies. I can buy them all second hand at the flea market.
And while we are on the subject, what about apps or programs that are no longer supported or produced or sold?
It suddenly becomes an obsolete piece of software. The company no longer produces it or sells it, and the only way to purchase it is through second hand means. So again, does the company lose money on something that it no longer produces?
Mass Media is like bread. It has a shelf life of a couple of days, and then it is no good anymore.
That's not to say that all mass media is the same type of bread. Movies and Software have a longer shelf life then Music. A piece of software can be relevant for years, just look at Windows XP.
Movies make their money at the box office, and for that reason I don't support, and never will support camera rips. DVD/BluRay sales also contribute for a time as well.
However, when I find a movie like "The Matrix", which I think we can all agree is our generations version of Star Wars in the Wall Mart Bargain Bin for 5 dollars, then I think that it is safe to say that they are now trying to get rid of junk stock.
CD's on the other hand are merely a form of advertisement so that people can get interested in a band to see them perform live.
Tape recorders did not kill the industry like everyone was afraid of at the time, and neither did CD-Burners, and neither will downloading MP3's.
I have discovered so many new artists that I would never have discovered had I not downloaded their music, and I have gladly paid money for two tickets to see them live time and time again. At least that way, I can feel good that the money is going into their pocket where it belongs.
Oh, and one last thing, you don't own any of the music that you "purchased". You are licensing it for personal use.
Not every piece of music out there is under the same stipulations that the RIAA would have you believe. Look at Copyleft music, and Creative Commons music. Alot of it is great stuff by great and talented artists who want nothing more then for you to spread and endorse their music.
If Apple is pissed off at the crackers and hackers who are circumventing their apps, then they should go after those people, and leave the honest jailbreakers alone (theres an oxymoron if I ever heard one.)
(sorry if that came off as an attack, I'm just very passionate about the subject)Herp a derp a derp a doooo!
02-19-2009, 09:28 PM #274
Radiohead and NIN are the worst two examples you can use as artists giving their music for free. They've already made their millions, they have nothing to lose from doing what they love anymore.
And your argument has no merit when I didn't even mention CD's. Everyone knows that's dead technology for music. All my music came from digital downloads. Sure artists don't get much of it, but they never have. They get most of their money from tours and other stuff. As for obsolete software well I imagine it'll go the same way as everything else that goes and passes it's time: it'll become abandonware/shareware or by then a better app will have replaced it.
Just because you don't agree with how things are done doesn't give you the right to break the law and illegally download stuff. It's a free market, no one is forcing anyone to buy this. There are PLENTY of online venues where one can discover/listen/buy to music for much cheaper than a CD and legally (thesixtyone.com, band's myspace pages, amazon online store which is drm free, and the itunes store which is also turning drm free).
The people are speaking clearly with the lack of CD sales and the increase on online sales. As for the difference of buying a disc from a second hand / used store to downloading it? Well... one is buying the other is stealing regardless of whether the artist got money off it. If anything, you're killing off the small shop by just skipping it when they have a nice purpose in the scheme of things. And just because you find an old movie on a bargain bin doesn't mean it's ok to just download it elsewhere. the price devalues over time but it's still a property you're given the choice to own/get.
As for apple going against the crackers, that's exactly what they're doing. You can't crack without a jailbreak.
02-20-2009, 12:46 AM #275
He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.
02-20-2009, 06:04 AM #276
9 x's out of 10 THE ARTIST WANTS YOU TO DOWNLOAD THEIR MUSIC.
That's the point entirely.
You say that Radiohead, and Nine Inch Nails are bad examples because they have made their millions? Well, this process in which they are doing have made them even a million more!
And it has nothing to do with whether or not that I agree with it, it has everything to do with that law being used for it's original intentions, which by the way it is not.
This law was never intended for people to go out a sue one another because someone decided to go out and download an album. This law, as well as ASCAP and BMI were created to prevent people from actually stealing music, AKA plagiarism.
Today, it has been twisted and perverted into something not good. The artists are suffering greatly because of this.
Let's talk about Metallica for a minute, another well known band (and you say that people have nothing to lose, well allright). When they first came out, there were some interviews with them about fans who were so into their music that when they came to shows there was a little press box just for them off the side of the stage so that they could make bootlegged copy's of the show.
They thought it was the coolest thing ever, and personally if I was in their position, I would agree.
Now fast forward a couple of years to the napster incident. Suddenly they are kicking up this huge stink saying that they are going to lose money, and sue people and so on and so forth.
And what happened? Well simply put, they pissed of alot of their fans, people stopped going to their shows, and the band realized that they really shouldn't piss off their bread and butter. Finally they just dropped the idea entirely and left it as a non issue.
Eventually people came back to the fold, but it did take them some time.
Now you say that my argument has no merit when it comes to CD's because you didn't purchase CD's? Well, i never said that you did purchase a CD in the first place, and apparently you did miss the point on that.
To reiterate, the RIAA says that so and so Band is losing money on downloading. I say that is not entirely true. If I go out and purchase a CD used, then the band still gets ZERO. So the difference is, is that I own a piece of plastic?
Oh, and I'm killing off the small shop? Your not even purchasing the plastic and foil! Your just as guilty as I am in that respect. So not only are you killing off the small shop, your also killing off the record store, and the CD producing factory.
(But this is a stupid line of thinking)
Never the less, it's a very simple numbers game. RIAA claims downloading music is a 100% loss to the artist. Buying a CD used is a 100% loss to the artist. One is considered legal. The other is not.
In the end, does it really make a difference? A 100% loss is still a 100% loss.
Downloading music is PERFECTLY legal. You cannot make a blanket statement like that. It is an individual artists personal prerogative to allow their music to be downloaded.
Do I agree that it was a bit much for "ulous" to come out with an program like that? Yeah. It was a bit much.
It's kinda took the cat and mouse game a bit too far.
However, is it really any different the dTunes? Well, in a lot of cases yes. You can download alot of Creative Commons music, as well as music from established artists who understand that an mp3 is simply a for of advertisement for you to come to their shows.
But let's get the the heart of the matter, because we are getting way off track.
If it is determined that jailbreaking is "illegal", and I want an honest answer, are you prepared to reformat your phone and put it back to stock because Apple told you to?Herp a derp a derp a doooo!
02-20-2009, 07:14 AM #277
The stupid thing is the stance the community has on pirating. it is contradicting and just doesn't make any logical sense?
And to top it off, correct me if im wrong, but last time i used dTunes it had a built in torrent client. I have seen cracked ipa torrents around. Therefore, dTunes could be used to download cracked ipas?
Yet, dTunes is still ok, has never been filtered or caused an uproar, and is openly available the moment a user jailbreaks.
If Apple really can't stop jailbreaking, and there is nothing illegal about jailbreaking itself (as everyone keeps stating), then why not give Iinsttalous the same support as dTunes and provide it in the community sources and not filter it every time you type it. it's rediculous.
Lol, one filtered, one not. Stupid.The Original Autobot of MMiJesus couldn't turn into a fire engine
LOL -> "Winterboard does not interfere at all with my performance."
Suck it up, Sucker
02-20-2009, 07:59 AM #278
"Stealing is when you deprive something from someone, I'm not taking away anything from anyone, I'm making a copy"
(of course that didn't really for him either)
I want to make a retraction concerning "ringtones". Due to some more research, it has come to my attention that my information was outdated.
Apparently the RIAA doesn't care all that much if you make a ringtone with music from a CD or digital download, as they don't consider it infringement.
Know Your Rights: Is it illegal to make my own ringtones? - Engadget
However, because I am unfamiliar with Apples policy concerning that I am not aware how up to date the last part of the article is concerning iTunes' TnC.
Lastly somehow this conversation has taken a toll from the legalities of jailbreaking a phone, to the morality and legality regarding downloading of various forms of media.
Either way the simple answer is this. My Phone, I own it, I can do whatever with it I want to. This community is no different then if I took my phone over to my friends house and asked him to jailbreak it for me.
Apple offers 1 firmware and distributes it out to many, so do the dev's.
Downloading media can be illegal depending on the circumstances. The law concerning copyrighted works has been perverted, and has lost focus on it's original intent and purpose.
The artist is the one who should have say over who can and cannot download their music. Most of the music I have downloaded is created by those artist, and I am therefore legally protected by their terms and conditions that they have prescribed for their music, and not under the jurisdiction of the RIAA, BMI, ASCAP, or SESCAP.
Last edited by boe_dye; 02-20-2009 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Automerged DoublepostHerp a derp a derp a doooo!
02-20-2009, 03:09 PM #279
And to the guy who says the internet needs flushing out and restarting, its coming
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3689881.eceThe Original Autobot of MMiJesus couldn't turn into a fire engine
LOL -> "Winterboard does not interfere at all with my performance."
Suck it up, Sucker
02-20-2009, 03:30 PM #280