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Thread: Apple Officially Claims Jailbreaking Illegal

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Originally Posted by boe_dye because it would be a the United States Government suing you. I know the UK government seems to just bend over and take whatever the US
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  1. #201
    Peanut Brain confucious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boe_dye View Post
    because it would be a the United States Government suing you.
    I know the UK government seems to just bend over and take whatever the US government throws at it so I look forward to lots of UK citizens being extradited to the US soon
    He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
    The REAL reason that Apple is wanting to crackdown on Jailbreaking is mentioned in this article. I think that this application changed everything for them. I also think that this program is illegal and that Cydia and Installer should both take steps to block it, I think that would go a long way towards appeasing Apple's concerns. There is a difference between jailbreaking the phone and downloading software and illegally stealing software (from whatever distribution channel you choose to get your software from), if you use the software and the Author wants money for it, pay for the right to use it. When that came out, I said that it would cause Apple to go after Jailbreakers if something wasn't done to try to stop it by Cydia and Installer. Perhaps the Devteam could get involved to stop it as well. But there are also tools to help the developers stop it, but that doesn't help for existing Applications. Bottom line is DON'T steal music, software, movies or anything else, stealing only hurts us all in the long run as these companies will go out of business due to a lack of revenue. And now, it's got Apple's attention as well.

    I only mention the article, because I feel that it is relevant to this issue and in case I haven't made myself clear on the matter, I do not condone Pirating software (or music or video) in any shape or form, I do feel that if I buy a DVD, I should have the right to put it on my iPod or watch it any other way that I want, I do not have the right to give it to anyone else, nor should I have that right, the same goes for software, if I buy a windows only program, and I have crossover on my computer, I have the right to run it on my Mac, if I use Parallels and a legal copy of Windows, I have the right to run it on my Mac, before Boot Camp came out, there were ways to run Windows on an Intel Mac, again no one questioned the legality of it, as long as you paid for your copy of Windows. All of these could be considered hacks to the Mac and are perfectly legal, why should the iPhone be any different? I honestly don't think that Jailbreaking is any different than getting non-oem service.

    Now, I even take this as far as saying Apple should be required to provide warranty service on Jailbroken phones, as mentioned, if you modify a car with non-oem parts or get service from somewhere besides the dealer, the manufacturer is still required to honor their warranty on the car (now they may charge you if it's the non-oem part that failed, as it is no longer their part, but everything else must be covered).
    First off, I tried clicking on your link, but it didn't work.

    I am going to assume that you are referring to ********* and **********. Both are found on Cydia, so it should be allright to reference them for the sake of educated discussion.

    Yes, I will admit 2 things. When I first saw them, I was a bit surprised that they actually went as far as they did for the ease of use. Traditionally, hacking and cracking, at least in this case is usually reserved for the mentality of "yes we know where it is, we know how to get it, but we don't talk about it."

    That's why the mods on just about every forum have a strict policy about posting warez and links to torrents and so on.

    If you want something bad enough in that realm the answer is usually "the usual places". If you don't know the usual places, then you like the rest of us, need to figure it out for yourself.

    So yes, i thought it was a bit much. and a bit over board.

    Secondly, yes, I myself did install these apps just to play, and yes I did play around with them for about a day or so. In all honesty ********** made a huge mess of my phone and I couldn't sync or do anything right until I removed all the offending items.

    Now, heres the deal.

    (and I am going to parallel this with another example)

    Did you know that when the constitution of the united states was drafted that there were some members who felt that there should not be a bill of rights because they believed that things so obvious don't need to be spelled out?

    It is true. Why should I have to write down things like "freedom of the press", or "the right to keep and bear arms", or the right to pray to whatever God you want to?

    These things are inherently known to every man, aren't they?

    Well something interesting happens when you decided to write something down. It becomes a contract. Like an EULA. It is a contract.

    If I don't sign or agree to the contract, am I bound by that contract?

    When I download a cracked application, I am not signing any contract. The person who bought and cracked and posted the app is the contract holder. He's the one you should go after.

    Same thing with music and DVD's.

    Which by the way, the record companies or movie companies aren't losing any revenue. The problem is, is that they keep spending money on frivolous lawsuits, and keep stamping out CD's that just sit around because no one want's to spend 12 dollars on "Aerosmith's Greatest Hits".

    That is where the money lost is. It is a well known fact that the artist benefits greatly from people downloading music freely.

    I myself have discovered a number of artists that I would never had discovered if I hadn't downloaded their music. And now that I listen to some of them regularly, I pay money to see them perform LIVE, which is where they make their money.

    The point I am saying, is that you can't make Jailbreaking illegal because of the shady things you can do with it. That's like making Linux illegal because you can use it to write your own code to hack into systems.

    There is already a law in place for that sort of thing, use it.

    There is already a law in place for cracking apps, and so on. Use it. Don't make another nonsense law that wont be followed by anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by confucious View Post
    I know the UK government seems to just bend over and take whatever the US government throws at it so I look forward to lots of UK citizens being extradited to the US soon
    Cool, you guys can all stay at my house.

    Just remember to bring me some DVD's of Tom Baker Dr. Who, and the latest season of Top Gear and we will be square :-)
    Last edited by boe_dye; 02-16-2009 at 05:52 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Herp a derp a derp a doooo!

  3. #203
    Peanut Brain confucious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boe_dye View Post
    because no one want's to spend 12 dollars on "Aerosmith's Greatest Hits".
    Where can I get "Aerosmith's Greatest Hits" for $12?



    Just remember to bring me some DVD's of Tom Baker Dr. Who, and the latest season of Top Gear and we will be square :-)
    Tom Baker? I'm sure I have some of his (for my son obviously) but all of Top gear is endlessly repeated (and I watch most of the repeats) so I don't have on DVD...
    Last edited by confucious; 02-16-2009 at 05:58 AM.
    He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.

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    The goal of calling jail breaking illegal is, if it is officially illegal, they can go after the people who are making the jail breaking software and stop it at the root, they normally have no plan to chase the end users.

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    iPhoneaholic Amadomon's Avatar
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    Simply put, Apple's argument is completely without merit, and will fail, as they have failed in courts in France, etc. The analogy of a car is completely apt; I can paint it any color I want, use aftermarket windshield wipers, even (as someone has noted) remap the ignition. This last alteration usually does void the warranty, as does jailbreaking, but we the consumer assume the risk. I am someone who paid the extravagant, unsubsidized price of $600 for a 1st-gen phone, so it is mine to do with as I wish. Certainly, some aftermarket apps may impose externalities on others, such as tethering, which may well overburden AT&T's feeble 3G network, but the vast majority of apps merely add functionality and marketability while imposing no externalities whatsoever.

    I simply cannot imagine having a lousy stock iPhone. It is the difference between black-and-white and color TV. In my view, people who don't modify their phones aren't real iPhone users, but simple mindless consumers and followers of fashion, which is of course their right. Don't worry people, this will go nowhere.

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    Peanut Brain confucious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajputro View Post
    The goal of calling jail breaking illegal

    No it's not!
    He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boe_dye View Post
    First off, I tried clicking on your link, but it didn't work.

    I am going to assume that you are referring to ********* and **********. Both are found on Cydia, so it should be allright to reference them for the sake of educated discussion.

    Yes, I will admit 2 things. When I first saw them, I was a bit surprised that they actually went as far as they did for the ease of use. Traditionally, hacking and cracking, at least in this case is usually reserved for the mentality of "yes we know where it is, we know how to get it, but we don't talk about it."

    That's why the mods on just about every forum have a strict policy about posting warez and links to torrents and so on.

    If you want something bad enough in that realm the answer is usually "the usual places". If you don't know the usual places, then you like the rest of us, need to figure it out for yourself.

    So yes, i thought it was a bit much. and a bit over board.

    Secondly, yes, I myself did install these apps just to play, and yes I did play around with them for about a day or so. In all honesty ********** made a huge mess of my phone and I couldn't sync or do anything right until I removed all the offending items.

    Now, heres the deal.

    (and I am going to parallel this with another example)

    Did you know that when the constitution of the united states was drafted that there were some members who felt that there should not be a bill of rights because they believed that things so obvious don't need to be spelled out?

    It is true. Why should I have to write down things like "freedom of the press", or "the right to keep and bear arms", or the right to pray to whatever God you want to?

    These things are inherently known to every man, aren't they?

    Well something interesting happens when you decided to write something down. It becomes a contract. Like an EULA. It is a contract.

    If I don't sign or agree to the contract, am I bound by that contract?

    When I download a cracked application, I am not signing any contract. The person who bought and cracked and posted the app is the contract holder. He's the one you should go after.

    Same thing with music and DVD's.

    Which by the way, the record companies or movie companies aren't losing any revenue. The problem is, is that they keep spending money on frivolous lawsuits, and keep stamping out CD's that just sit around because no one want's to spend 12 dollars on "Aerosmith's Greatest Hits".

    That is where the money lost is. It is a well known fact that the artist benefits greatly from people downloading music freely.

    I myself have discovered a number of artists that I would never had discovered if I hadn't downloaded their music. And now that I listen to some of them regularly, I pay money to see them perform LIVE, which is where they make their money.

    The point I am saying, is that you can't make Jailbreaking illegal because of the shady things you can do with it. That's like making Linux illegal because you can use it to write your own code to hack into systems.

    There is already a law in place for that sort of thing, use it.

    There is already a law in place for cracking apps, and so on. Use it. Don't make another nonsense law that wont be followed by anyone.



    Cool, you guys can all stay at my house.

    Just remember to bring me some DVD's of Tom Baker Dr. Who, and the latest season of Top Gear and we will be square :-)
    Actually, both are equally guilty, you know downloading a cracked DVD is stealing and the person posting it knows that it violates copyright laws.

    However, when it comes to jail breaking, you are correct that you can't make it illegal just because it is possible to do shady things with it, but the fact that you are able to do shady things with it is what got Apple to start going after jailbreakers, if these people had left well enough alone, leaving App Store Apps to the App Store and Jailbroken Apps to Jailbroken phones, I don't think that Apple would have really cared. But they see this as a potential threat to their store now, as their Applications can be cracked without the need for their store. Really, the better response would have been to say, we are going to have every Application in the App Store have an automatic 15 day free trial or something, if you don't like the Application, delete it within 15 days and you won't be charged for it, if you like it, keep it and your card on file will be charged.

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    iPhoneaholic Amraam's Avatar
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    This is ********, like it's going to stop me for one second...

    Why are Apple such tight bastards? Lighten up, and don't be so stingy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent005 View Post
    Personally, I think they say jailbreaking is illegal for one thing only- Cracked Apps. That is prolly pissing off a lot of developers, and possibly why some big names companies aren't producing as much as they can. Some apps in the App Store truly can make the iPhone and iPod Touch the 'ultimate gaming device', but with the crackers they don't want to develop since they won't get the same pay day.

    I know that of the iPhone and iPod Touch community around me, a whole heck of a lot of them jailbreak just for the cracked apps. I think cracked apps are wrong, but I also think that Apple should require a demo version. Like a 2-week trial of the full version of an App, and then let us make the decision to purchase said app from the App Store.

    Just my two cents.

    Winterboard + SBSettings + Copy/Paste + MMS FTW.

    Cracked Apps FTL

    EDIT- To above user boe_dye, before you tear me apart, yes I realize that you can do good and bad with the same thing. Apple just wants to protect developers. Yes, they should know that by creating an app it CAN be cracked. Yes, I know a lot of people want the added functions of theming, of self-made ringtones, of voice navigation. Yes, we have the ABILITY to crack apps. Like I have the ability to download Photoshop for free. It's the choices you make, as you said. But more and more people are making the choice to steal from developers. I think that's wrong, but I also know not everyone is doing it.

    I jailbroke simply for theming. And the NES emulator back in 1.1 days with my iPod Touch. I know a lot of people on here made that choice too. But now, people know you can crack apps. That is, in my opinion, why Apple now claims jailbreaking as illegal.

    It only takes a few to ruin it for the rest of us. And now Apple is trying to ruin it for the rest of us with an ounce of morality.
    This.

  10. #210
    iPhone? More like MyPhone capttanhowdy's Avatar
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    Thumbs down So let me get this right...
    Ok so I did the switch form pc to buying ALL APPLE products last year... New iMac, Apple TV, Ipod 160gig, Ipod 16 gig touch, a shuffle, and a nano (yes I think I over did it also) I use each one for different things like snowboarding and one for each car and all that... SO then I want an iphone but I have been with Tmobile since they were voicestream! So you can get me to get all your products and then try and tell me who my cell carrier has to be! Thats crazy! Screw that! I hope that statement was just a way for them to cover their butts in the eyes of At&t! I bought all these items to work together smoothly and they do! I think it should be illegal of them to try to create a monopoly and corner people into what they want!

    Thats my 2 cents

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    Kinda funny you pay how much for a iPhone and they think your not gonna do whatever you want with it......... Yeah Right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by capttanhowdy View Post
    Ok so I did the switch form pc to buying ALL APPLE products last year... New iMac, Apple TV, Ipod 160gig, Ipod 16 gig touch, a shuffle, and a nano (yes I think I over did it also) I use each one for different things like snowboarding and one for each car and all that... SO then I want an iphone but I have been with Tmobile since they were voicestream! So you can get me to get all your products and then try and tell me who my cell carrier has to be! Thats crazy! Screw that! I hope that statement was just a way for them to cover their butts in the eyes of At&t! I bought all these items to work together smoothly and they do! I think it should be illegal of them to try to create a monopoly and corner people into what they want!

    Thats my 2 cents
    Could not agree with you more. 100% on the button.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarcaMagic View Post
    Yeah breaking out of jail is illegal.But if i pay $ 400 or $ 500 for a phone or any other piece of equipment ill do what ever the hell i want with it.Heck i might just break it without jailing it

    illegal: not according to or authorized by law by Mariam Webster dictionary

    So does apple make laws in this country ?????
    amen to u bro i agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by i pimping View Post
    Of course, many iPhone owners will be happy to choose solely from the applications that Apple is willing to approve, just like many Ford owners are happy relying exclusively on their local Ford dealer. But if you want to pop the hood, the DMCA surely shouldn't stand in your way."
    but you dont see ford complaining when guys customize there cars becouse it only helps sell them when potential ford custumers see what can be done with a standard car
    exactly just like i know how so many people put down the iphone bc it has no video or mms but in turn with jail breaking you can have all these things just like having a ford focus that goes 200mph and has subwoofers

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    Default All About The Mighty $$
    This is all politics,this is how it works first generation iphone comes little bit hype but in a competitive and a saturated market of cell phones it doesn't makes that big of a impact(what they were looking for)then word comes out that u buy a iphone which can be unlocked people flooded apple stores picked handsets like they were free,10 million sold out of which 270.000 on at&t rest of the units all over the world,then apple acts all surprised and s@#t,so at&t doesn't feel bad,and kept scaring poor people with every firmware upgrade that it might brick there phone,then the same story with 3g.I think they exactly know what is going on, first the firmware upgrade then a turbosim comes out and so on..
    I don't know who is there business adviser because i would smack him and say just sell the unit unlocked(maybe higher price)and get over this nonsense..because the data revenue that u think at&t and other carriers will give u is going to be less compared to people who are dying to get the phone now at full price.
    They don't understand the cell phone market fully yet WHAT IS HOT TODAY MIGHT NOT BE HOT TOMORROW
    One more thing isn't it ironic that iphone is made in CHINA and they have refused to sell it in CHINA lol,Apple doesn't realize that market is 1.5 billion strong refusing them is refusing GOD,They can copy it and in fact make it better any day..

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    If I wasn't able to jailbreak my iPhone, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. Apple should think about that before denying custumers rights!

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    Peanut Brain confucious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WingHack View Post
    If I wasn't able to jailbreak my iPhone, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. Apple should think about that before denying custumers rights!
    Most people buy the iPhone first - then find out about jailbraking.
    Where I work two other people have iPhones, neither have jailbroken.
    People that frequent forums have, in the main, jailbroken because they are interested in what their phones can do, but their are millions of iPhone users that have not.

    Just a thought...

    He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.

  18. #218
    Livin the iPhone Life sziklassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucious View Post
    Most people buy the iPhone first - then find out about jailbraking.
    Where I work two other people have iPhones, neither have jailbroken.
    People that frequent forums have, in the main, jailbroken because they are interested in what their phones can do, but their are millions of iPhone users that have not.

    Just a thought...

    This is a fact that many people on these forums refuse to recognize. The majority of iphone users don;t even know what a jailbreak is. Apple stands to lose much more money in piracy than they would denying people the ability/right to jailbreak.
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    Thumbs down lol
    I do believe Richard Stallman had the best idea of all. Software should be free for everyone to modify and distribute so that anyone trying to learn how to use it can view the source code and have no problems sharing info. Linux and GNU have it the best and that's why I don't own a Mac and I don't need to use Windows. It costs too much money that you're just shelling out for licensing fees and making their pockets fat while getting expensive, shoddy software that ain't worth a dime. Sure I have an iPhone but that's only because the thing is so damn cool. I like Apple's innovation but they're just like M$ with marketing and hindering the computer industry. As soon as there is a useful,stable Linux kernel I can throw on this phone I'll go straight to it in a heartbeat. Proprietary software is ******.

    Edit: lol, matt1223, you have the gist of the idea. You're completely wrong though because Apple is in fact marketing masters. They don't have retards for programmers and developers either. They in fact have very skilled black hats working for them as well as ex-hackers gone white. Their marketing ploys are very well thought out and very intricate. If they didn't know what they were doing, how did they get you to buy that $500-600 phone then? Exactly. They try and make it irresistable and they worked out bugs for this phone for years. They then got very rich from it. They are absolute genious as far as marketing actually goes with releasing a new iPod every year and most people go get the lastest one even though it does the same ****. The average consumer just blows their money and they now paid Apple a couple times for the same exact ****. Rofl, you think their stupid about how they sell and control their products? No, they in fact think we the consumers are stupid for being tricked into buying several clones of their hardwares and thinking we're getting something new. A capitalist GANGBANG!
    Last edited by prodigy; 02-17-2009 at 11:00 AM.

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    Edit: lol, matt1223, you have the gist of the idea. You're completely wrong though because Apple is in fact marketing masters. They don't have retards for programmers and developers either. They in fact have very skilled black hats working for them as well as ex-hackers gone white. Their marketing ploys are very well thought out and very intricate. If they didn't know what they were doing, how did they get you to buy that $500-600 phone then? Exactly. They try and make it irresistable and they worked out bugs for this phone for years. They then got very rich from it. They are absolute genious as far as marketing actually goes with releasing a new iPod every year and most people go get the lastest one even though it does the same ****. The average consumer just blows their money and they now paid Apple a couple times for the same exact ****. Rofl, you think their stupid about how they sell and control their products? No, they in fact think we the consumers are stupid for being tricked into buying several clones of their hardwares and thinking we're getting something new. A capitalist GANGBANG![/QUOTE]

    They ARE marketing Genius'! that is why they had lines at every AT&T and aplle store for the 1st iphone without spending a penny on advertising.
    Last edited by akosko01; 02-17-2009 at 01:19 PM.

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