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Originally Posted by StealthBravo
Obama wants to increase payroll taxes 7%. He also wants to remove the tax incentive for people to improve technology within their business. This incentive has
Obama wants to increase payroll taxes 7%. He also wants to remove the tax incentive for people to improve technology within their business. This incentive has been to be able to write-off more of the cost, rather than depreciate it over so many years when it has already become obsolete.
Furthermore significant number of Americans own stock, especially current retirees and baby boomers who are about to retire. Also, many retirees and those contemplating retirement who own homes will downsize: (1) because they can no longer afford the upkeep on a large home and their ability to keep paying high real estate taxes is severely impacted with a reduced retirement income; so if they get hit with a capital gains tax upon downsizing their homes, this further impacts their future retirement income; (2) those who own stocks are counting on the capital gains to sustain a certain standard of living; and now that dream is shattered because of the significant increase in the capital gains tax.
Obama's economics will hurt a large portion of small businesses. Small businesses are the backbone of this country. We employ people who live in the US and do not outsource to other countries. However, who is going to hire you if small business is crushed? Is this really what our country needs?
Obama wants to add a trillion+ dollars worth of spending, how do you think he will pay for this? All you Obama supporters keep looking at your “proposed” income tax break.
Oh boy here we go MORE INACCURACIES.
Regarding Payroll Tax: The payroll tax increase proposed by Senator Obama is the elimination of the income ceiling, so that all wage earners pay the same percentage of their gross wages to the Social Security account. I pay 6.2% of all my wages to Social Security, but someone who earns more than approximately $95,000, only pays 6.2% on that $95,000 and the rest of their income, no matter how great, is exempt from Social Security taxes. So in other words, he's making people making over 95,000 pay just like the rest of everyone who doesn't make as much.
Gains Tax: Yes, Obama has proposed increasing the gains tax to what it was BEFORE. It was reduced to 15% by I think Bush, but don't quote me on that. To add more to it, he plans to increase it to 20% (5% increase) for 10 years then finalize it at 28% which was the norm. I'll be honest and say I don't know much about what gains tax do/are, but I can tell you that saying "Obama will increase them" is wrong as he is simply eliminating the failed Bush economic policies.
EDIT: Wikipedia just confirmed it, it was Bush who lowered the tax in the first place and that will expire in 2010 unless revised before then (which is what Obama is doing)
I'm trying to find it, but another article tests both hypothetical plans taking into account tax increases/decreases, proposed spending, and a bunch of other mumbo jumbo from both candidate's platform. The result? McCain FAILED, Obama PASSED. His plan is ambitious but it makes sense and its doable. I will mention here that McCain's plan took some slight liberties becasue unlike Obama, he has not released a complete detailed economic plan. If you think Obama's proposed spending is bad, I don't know how you can't think McCain is worse given he doesn't even try to justify his spending.
I will say this, the bailout puts a big rock in both candidates plan and don't be surprised if they make changes to certain aspects of it, it's necessary at this point.
I will also say this. Both candidates would be good presidents. I'm leaning (obviously) towards Obama, but I admire McCain for who he is. He's a hero and no one can say otherwise. However, the campaign he has chosen to run has been full of deceit, lies, and mistrust. It's sad really because a year or so ago I would have said McCain had it in the bag when Obama/Clinton were still fighting each other. Obama isn't perfect either, his vote for FISA puts some serious doubt in my mind. Biden's record when it comes to digital media is quite, quite alarming. But the fact is, when all the cards have been shown, Obama/Biden really are the best choice there is. What little chance McCain had drained away by picking Palin who is so unqualified I won't even talk about it.
final, final note: I'm sorry if I derailed this thread into full-blown politics. If anyone still would like to discuss this, feel free to send me a private message. And if you want to post here (don't see why not) don't let my moderator status scare you or think I'll just shove you in a dark corner. I'm just another poster when it comes to opinion, I have no right to impede you from telling your opinion (as long as it's properly presented of course, no insults and such)
Last edited by Happy Noodle Boy; 10-03-2008 at 06:21 PM..
Wow you must not have a life, you're gonna switch just because of that??? In a little over a month that station wont even exist, if so DONT WATCH IT people like you are so dumb and ignorant.
Someone said earlier in this post that Palin was unqualified as a vice president (keep in mind, that's second in command), but you think Obama is qualified to be president (first in command)? What a joke! I agree with Grip- I'm voting experience!
BTW....I hear all this about Obama bringing change, but I hope people will keep in mind that not all change is good. If you lost your job tomorrow, that would be a change......
Also, NArush said that 8 years of Bush were enough.....did anyone spend their tax rebate check besides me?
Someone said earlier in this post that Palin was unqualified as a vice president (keep in mind, that's second in command), but you think Obama is qualified to be president (first in command)? What a joke! I agree with Grip- I'm voting experience!
Obama may not have the experience senator McCain has, there's no contest about that. But he has shown time after time that he has what it take to run a country. Even something as simple as seeing how the campaigns have been managed gives you an insight into their leadership. He has shown the qualities that we need in a president. But if you want to brand yourself a single-issue voter (experience in this case), then yes you would be correct in voting for John McCain, who has vast more experience (26 years in fact), but just like you said about change, not all experience is good. When all your experience leads you to making wrong decisions, then that experience isn't worth as much. His continued standing regarding Iran, his delusion about Iraq and to a lesser extend Afghanistan, his complete lack of knowledge regarding the economy and technology, his very oppressive conservative views against women's rights and homosexuals, and many other examples show that he has experiences in all the wrong areas that a president living in the 21st century need.
In case it wasnt noticed before in the sea of uneducated responses... This should clear a ton of thing up, keep THIS out of the White House:
"Uh, that alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and on our other side the land uh boundary that have with uh Canada. We if our... our next door neighbors are foreign countries, they're in the state that I am the executive of, and because they are right there they are right next to um to we we do. It's very important when... when you consider even national security issues with Russia as uh uh carrot? I don't know. Ya know?"
well, let's just agree to disagree then. That is not the only reason i'm voting for McCain, but rather one of many. As far as your other comments, I could sit here and debate them with you for days. I actually have friends and family members in Iraq and they say we are absolutely doing the right thing, and many of them have reinlisted to go back over there if need be. As it tends to be with the liberal media, people only see (most of the time), the negative and not the positive things happening over there. Don't get me wrong, I have close friends and coworkers who are Obama supporters, so we just agree to disagree and still be good friends!
Regarding Payroll Tax: The payroll tax increase proposed by Senator Obama is the elimination of the income ceiling, so that all wage earners pay the same percentage of their gross wages to the Social Security account. I pay 6.2% of all my wages to Social Security, but someone who earns more than approximately $95,000, only pays 6.2% on that $95,000 and the rest of their income, no matter how great, is exempt from Social Security taxes. So in other words, he's making people making over 95,000 pay just like the rest of everyone who doesn't make as much.
Gains Tax: Yes, Obama has proposed increasing the gains tax to what it was BEFORE. It was reduced to 15% by I think Bush, but don't quote me on that. To add more to it, he plans to increase it to 20% (5% increase) for 10 years then finalize it at 28% which was the norm. I'll be honest and say I don't know much about what gains tax do/are, but I can tell you that saying "Obama will increase them" is wrong as he is simply eliminating the failed Bush economic policies.
EDIT: Wikipedia just confirmed it, it was Bush who lowered the tax in the first place and that will expire in 2010 unless revised before then (which is what Obama is doing)
I'm trying to find it, but another article tests both hypothetical plans taking into account tax increases/decreases, proposed spending, and a bunch of other mumbo jumbo from both candidate's platform. The result? McCain FAILED, Obama PASSED. His plan is ambitious but it makes sense and its doable. I will mention here that McCain's plan took some slight liberties becasue unlike Obama, he has not released a complete detailed economic plan. If you think Obama's proposed spending is bad, I don't know how you can't think McCain is worse given he doesn't even try to justify his spending.
I will say this, the bailout puts a big rock in both candidates plan and don't be surprised if they make changes to certain aspects of it, it's necessary at this point.
I will also say this. Both candidates would be good presidents. I'm leaning (obviously) towards Obama, but I admire McCain for who he is. He's a hero and no one can say otherwise. However, the campaign he has chosen to run has been full of deceit, lies, and mistrust. It's sad really because a year or so ago I would have said McCain had it in the bag when Obama/Clinton were still fighting each other. Obama isn't perfect either, his vote for FISA puts some serious doubt in my mind. Biden's record when it comes to digital media is quite, quite alarming. But the fact is, when all the cards have been shown, Obama/Biden really are the best choice there is. What little chance McCain had drained away by picking Palin who is so unqualified I won't even talk about it.
final, final note: I'm sorry if I derailed this thread into full-blown politics. If anyone still would like to discuss this, feel free to send me a private message. And if you want to post here (don't see why not) don't let my moderator status scare you or think I'll just shove you in a dark corner. I'm just another poster when it comes to opinion, I have no right to impede you from telling your opinion (as long as it's properly presented of course, no insults and such)
Regarding Payroll Tax: The payroll tax increase proposed by Senator Obama is the elimination of the income ceiling, so that all wage earners pay the same percentage of their gross wages to the Social Security account. I pay 6.2% of all my wages to Social Security, but someone who earns more than approximately $95,000, only pays 6.2% on that $95,000 and the rest of their income, no matter how great, is exempt from Social Security taxes. So in other words, he's making people making over 95,000 pay just like the rest of everyone who doesn't make as much.
What is wrong with capping Social Security? Besides they can only draw benefits from $95,000 worth of contributions. It is not like they will be utilizing any more Social Security.
Gains Tax: Yes, Obama has proposed increasing the gains tax to what it was BEFORE. It was reduced to 15% by I think Bush, but don't quote me on that. To add more to it, he plans to increase it to 20% (5% increase) for 10 years then finalize it at 28% which was the norm. I'll be honest and say I don't know much about what gains tax do/are, but I can tell you that saying "Obama will increase them" is wrong as he is simply eliminating the failed Bush economic policies.
EDIT: Wikipedia just confirmed it, it was Bush who lowered the tax in the first place and that will expire in 2010 unless revised before then (which is what Obama is doing)
A capital gains tax is a tax charged on the profit made from a sale of a property and stocks, and bonds. That’s why I brought up the point of elderly people who are downgrading their home to move into something smaller and to save on property taxes from a cheaper house are going to get hit hard on the sale. How is that fair? If your parents worked their entire life and paid their mortgage on time for 30 years and at the end their nest egg was taxed to death that would be devastating. And just because the tax rate was at a certain level during one administration does not make it the “norm” as you call it. Furthermore a lot of Americans own stocks and bonds. If you buy low and sell high, the profit is capital gain and is subject to Obama’s higher tax rate. Do you have a 401k or any investments that would be subject to this?
How are we paying for this?!?!?!: Yes, Obama has a bold spending plan. There's a lot that he wants to do. Will he get to it all? Probably not. Does his plan make sense as it stands? Well let's ask a bunch of economists:
Examining America's presidential candidates | Examining the candidates | The Economist
I'm trying to find it, but another article tests both hypothetical plans taking into account tax increases/decreases, proposed spending, and a bunch of other mumbo jumbo from both candidate's platform. The result? McCain FAILED, Obama PASSED. His plan is ambitious but it makes sense and its doable. I will mention here that McCain's plan took some slight liberties becasue unlike Obama, he has not released a complete detailed economic plan. If you think Obama's proposed spending is bad, I don't know how you can't think McCain is worse given he doesn't even try to justify his spending.
I found this part very funny. I won’t argue with you here cause we could go back and forth all day with studies that agreed with our view. You are just a CNN watcher and I am a FOX News watcher. No big deal.
I will say this, the bailout puts a big rock in both candidates plan and don't be surprised if they make changes to certain aspects of it, it's necessary at this point.
You are correct about them having to give up on some portions of their spending plans. You have to admit that Obama’s spending plan is far larger than McCain’s. What I didn’t like the other night was that neither would talk about what they would cut or at least give us a priority list. Obama can’t continue promising without being straight with what might be on the chopping block.
I will also say this. Both candidates would be good presidents. I'm leaning (obviously) towards Obama, but I admire McCain for who he is. He's a hero and no one can say otherwise. However, the campaign he has chosen to run has been full of deceit, lies, and mistrust. It's sad really because a year or so ago I would have said McCain had it in the bag when Obama/Clinton were still fighting each other. Obama isn't perfect either, his vote for FISA puts some serious doubt in my mind. Biden's record when it comes to digital media is quite, quite alarming. But the fact is, when all the cards have been shown, Obama/Biden really are the best choice there is. What little chance McCain had drained away by picking Palin who is so unqualified I won't even talk about it.
What I love about Palin is that she is true conservative like none I have seen in a long time. That is why a lot of people hate her. I don’t need a leader who knows everything about everything but I do need a leader who will be straight with me and has the same core values.
Happy Noodle I appreciate the conversation. I don’t mind disagreeing with someone when I feel like they at least have an educated opinion and not the “No Way, No How, No McCain” people. We are just coming from different places. We will agree to disagree as they say.
Peace
So I think we should just all move to Australia. Who's in?
But on another side note, I think there are some misunderstandings in some of the prior posts, with some people. I'm not going back and quoting, but someone mentioned on like, page 2 or 3, that at the end of the day, votes are going to be swayed based solely on race. Responses made it seem as if they thought he meant he was going to vote McCain because he's white. I don't think that's the point he was trying to get across.
Despite how far we've come over the past several decades as far as race goes, I can see where the original comment came from. Yeah, we're not racist in here (though some people may be, I don't speak for everyone), but I honestly do think a bulk of people in the US -ARE- hesitant on voting for a black man. Uneducated votes are bad votes to make, especially when they're racist ones.
On another note, I've noticed people bashing McCain and Palin based on their responses and half-broken sentences. I still stand by the fact that ALL politicians lie. Not a handful, or a few. or a couple, or anything short of ALL. With that said, Obama is an EXCELLENT public speaker. He's shown it on a great number of occasions. McCain and Palin, on the other hand, aren't. The only thing that bothers me is that just because you're not great at speaking, it doesn't mean you're not great at doing.
With that said, I don't pay attention to debates. I try to avoid the media. I avoid online videos, and everything of the sort. Slandering commercials and constant bashing. That is about all election time is.
I watched an episode of The Cleaner a few weeks ago. Forgive me for not knowing the character names, but the one main guy (x-druggy) was fighting with an x-colleague over who was going to get custody of this heroin-addicted girl, to get her clean. They turned it pretty much into a fist fight, just so they could get this girl. Then innocent old mom stands by as the one man threatens the other, and says something along the lines of "If all you're going to do is make this into a competition and fight, why do I want your help at all?" That's what elections are to me. Who can get the best shot at the other guy. Who can sound and look better on TV. Who can lie the best.
This might sound weird, but even at the beginning of Bush's second term when his approval rating really started diving, he spent his time doing what he thought was right. He continued doing what he assured us he was going to do. The things we originally put him into office for in the first place. Once he actually did it.... his approval rating dropped. I admire Bush. He may be doing many questionable things right now, but he's still done what he told us he was going to do. Even if some people disagreed, he stuck to it, because he thought it was right.
In regards to Cash's post, i'm with you. Considering everything I mentioned above, I'm sick of politicians because it's nothing but a mud slinging fight. I'm not saying this application if anything but the opposite, though I do think politics have their own place, and they're already invasive enough as it is. Sure, we have the option to download or not to download. But just seeing anything political on the screen irritates me. And i'm sure many of you will agree the same with seeing political ads at the top of websites. Good post Cash. Viva la Australia.
obama ===== anit-christ dont you ppl get it......bible predicts....mid 40's,socialistic marker..(good at speaking to the ppl), he is from muslim decsent.......
WHAT THE F'UCK?
You are a complete idiot. Do us all a favor and don't vote (Seriously, take the day off, stay home till it's all over.), anyone who manages to get into office with supporters like this can't possibly be good for the country.
and
Same thing goes for you two. Honestly, you sicken me.
Uninformed, racist, and downright stupid. Not to mention that none of you know how to spell, but I suppose illiteracy goes hand in hand with this sort of a mentality.
Last edited by 461am; 10-03-2008 at 10:44 PM..
Reason: Had to vent some more.
there are some people who are avid obama or mccain or nader or watever supporters and they would want one of these, so I assure you, this app's function was not in vain
but I do think it would be in mccain's benefit to do the same
btw I recommend we kinda clean up this blog, or get rid of it, cuz it's too polarizing
We all favor a certain candidate and we all have our views, the more radical ones on either side of the spectrum are usually harangued the most, but I think that it would be best if we leave that to the political sites
Last edited by JacquesChirac; 10-03-2008 at 09:27 PM..
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
well, let's just agree to disagree then. That is not the only reason i'm voting for McCain, but rather one of many. As far as your other comments, I could sit here and debate them with you for days. I actually have friends and family members in Iraq and they say we are absolutely doing the right thing, and many of them have reinlisted to go back over there if need be. As it tends to be with the liberal media, people only see (most of the time), the negative and not the positive things happening over there. Don't get me wrong, I have close friends and coworkers who are Obama supporters, so we just agree to disagree and still be good friends!
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthBravo
Happy Noodle I appreciate the conversation. I don’t mind disagreeing with someone when I feel like they at least have an educated opinion and not the “No Way, No How, No McCain” people. We are just coming from different places. We will agree to disagree as they say.
Peace
[/I][/B]
I thank you both. It's clear to me that both of you have done your research and aren't taken this decision lightly. I sometimes get bothered (same as you guys I'm sure) when someone throws a single talking point like if it was the end-all truth. There's no one way of running a government and people will always have different opinions. I appreciate your comments as it only makes me do more research regarding the topics. It's always hard to pick out of two people when my views of life are so varied but in the end I'm making my choice out of my own judgement the same way you guys are. Agree to disagree
Again, thanks for bringing forth some good point, but I'm sure Cash and the rest don't want this to turn into a full blown politics thread so let's see if we can get back on topic. Like most of the useless apps out there, it's all optional so I don't have a problem with this app just as I wouldn't have a problem with an app for the other party. The easier it is to spread information around the better it is for everyone and the iPhone is an excellent platform for distributing information.
1) Would you really have made this rant if it was mccain?
2) Really?
3) DON'T DOWNLOAD IT!
4) Do you also complain about billboards you don't agree with and move to a different city?
5) I can't believe kids care enough about the country to make you want to vote for a candidate! There is no hope for the future.
6) Why did you download it?
7) Thanks to the developers who developed it but the candidate (who probably had no say in developing it) sucks?
8) I call B.S. on your day. Phone calls starting in the morning, being chased down the street? Every day? Is your phone number posted on a website? I gave my phone number to a candidate and I don't get that many phone calls. Certainly none in the morning (I think the phone callers would realize that wouldn't be the best way to sell their candidate). Perhaps you exaggerated to make a belabored point?
9) Really, all this angst over participation in the political process? We might have the most votes cast, the most enthusiasm about an election in probably the most difficult time this country has seen in 80 years (maybe longer) and you are throwing a wet blanket on it?
10) This has to be tongue in cheek. You are going to vote on issues like abortion, taxes, war, and healthcare because one of the candidates is modern enough to make an app? I'm not even sure the reasoning is sound since McCain will probably come out with his own app (made by some right leaning techie like yourself). He has copied every other techie thing Obama has done.
Last edited by ab03; 10-03-2008 at 10:26 PM..
The Following User Says Thank You to ab03 For This Useful Post:
Wow you must not have a life, you're gonna switch just because of that??? In a little over a month that station wont even exist, if so DONT WATCH IT people like you are so dumb and ignorant.
People amaze me sometimes with their atrocious logic.
So:
1) Guy "A" doesn't like the fact that the company he's getting satellite television from has created a channel solely dedicated to one presidential candidate and his views.
2) Guy "A" sees this as a very biased move by said company. Guy "A' likely believes that companies shouldn't be endorsing presidential candidates, nor incorporating said candidate into the product that they collect money from Guy "A" for.
3) Guy "A" decides that, as a matter of principle (and despite the overtly obvious fact that the channel will no longer [one can only hope] be in existence following the election) he will stop doing business with that company and take his money elsewhere.
4) Guy "A" decides to share this company's bias with others on a politically-tinged thread in the event others are unaware.
5) Guy "B" feels it's now appropriate to call Guy "A" both 'dumb' and 'ignorant'.
Yeah, I think that about sums it up. Congratulations, zues79, your deduction skills are incredible. Not to mention your civility.
As for the original post, gotta say I agree. People fail to understand that it's not that we don't get that we "just don't have to download it". We get it. It's not a hard concept to understand and we're not kindergarteners. The issue is that we don't like the idea of the app store being inundated by politicians. I won't hide my bias favoring McCain, but I'm glad that his campaign hasn't followed suit and I hope they don't. Politics are found on every other medium already; I'd rather not have to deal with it flipping through the app store.
one app, people. one app. no slippery slope, no flood gates. one app. you watch tv, spend more time on the phone, spend more time looking at people's lawns, spend more time listening to the radio, and spend more time looking at billboards, then you do browsing through apps in the appstore. a creative campaign is not a bad thing.
EDIT: Here is a good review of the app and a good assessment of what these apps are going to do for the future of politics
10-03-2008, 06:07 PM
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