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Originally Posted by lh99
I really do like how the Dev Team (and Saurik specifically) actually talk about what's going on, why they're doing it, what problems they're having, etc. This may not mean a lot to the casual user who doesn't understand how programming/hacking works, but it means a whole lot to me. I like knowing what I'm installing, rather than just blindly loading whatever binaries look interesting.
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Then this places you in the minority. I surely can't prove it, but I think it's common sense to think that the vast majority of jailbreakers know nothing of programming, code, binaries, etc. This is why we wait for others to do these things for us. If you know more and that's why you like Cydia, bully for you. I, not being involved in such matters, couldn't care less. Same goes for most of us jailbreaking our phones.
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Don't get me wrong, I like my fair share of "pretty" GUI's, such as OS X and Delicious Library (which is full of eye candy). But there's a place for fancy graphics, and there's a place for efficiency. An package manager should be functional first and attractive second.
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I've never had much of a problem with either usability or efficiency when dealing with Installer. It does what I want it to do, in an easy, simple format which meshes well with Apple's simplistic design.
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No point much beyond that, but right now Cydia has a lot of the features Installer should have, and Installer only has a couple of features Cydia should have (my opinion, of course). From the looks of it, they're basically rewriting Installer from the ground up to make all of the necessary improvements, so I don't see how past versions of Installer will predict in any way how Installer 4.0 will work. It'll probably be buggy. It might even be missing features you liked from Installer 3. I haven't used 4.0, so I don't know, but you can't expect it the experience to be exactly the same.
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Generally, upgrades to programs don't remove features; that defeats the purpose of an upgrade, which is to add new features and/or improve upon existing ones. And yes, it may be buggy on release. Many programs are ... they get tested as best they can but eventually must be released, and then updates made based on feedback of problems that are encountered. The Installer folks are mainly rewriting the behind-the-scenes stuff; the guts, so to speak ... and from the pics shown in this thread I really don't see that anything on the face of it has changed, save improved GUI and a new "Tasks" option.
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Just tell me, other than the apparent "brand loyalty" that Installer has because it was first, why? Can you give us a specific reason? Aside from being able to add sources (which has already been discussed enough for me), what does Installer bring to the table that Cydia doesn't? I haven't seen a single post that identifies a specific advantage. Stability does not count -- no one knows how stable the new Installer is going to be yet.
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How can you ask me -- or anyone -- to tell you a reason why based on the new Installer when no one has had a chance to use it? The only basis we have is the previous Installer incarnations, and therefore stability is most certainly a factor. But I'm not really interested in writing a detailed description of what gives Installer an advantage or not; I never claimed Installer was "better" than Cydia, or that I had a list of reasons why ... all I said was I prefer it and that you Cydia lovers should stop denigrating those of us that like Installer. And really, that's what it boils down to. Personal preference. I don't
have to have a reason to want to use Installer over Cydia, nor do I have to explain my decisions to you or to anyone else. I've been using Installer since it debuted, I like it, it works for me in the way I want it to, and I will continue to use it as long as they keep providing it and improving upon it. Conversely, I have used Cydia for a few firmwares, and I don't find that I like using it as much as I like using Installer. And that, my friend, is the only reason I need.
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From my perspective, and I've been using both package managers since they first came out, most of the differences are cosmetic. Cydia has a much better "Changes" screen.
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Again, this is a matter of preference. I prefer the "Recent Packages" screen to check for new items.
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Since I haven't seen any logical arguments for Installer, I have to assume that most of its proponents want the apps it used to have.
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I'm not denying there are noobs that might think that Installer somehow will have access to more apps than Cydia does with this new firmware, but please, give most of us here the benefit of the doubt. I'm not an idiot, and I speak on behalf of all of us non-idiot jailbreakers who prefer Installer over Cydia -- for whatever reason.
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What would be great is if Installer just used the same repository format that Cydia does, rendering this whole discussion moot. They probably won't do it, but if they did, users could select between Cydia and Installer based on features, not application availability. I just really want to see everything in one place (OK, two places including the AppStore). This makes things easier for developers and users alike and if Nullriver/RipDev are truly dedicated to the community as you think they are, they would find a way to cooperate with Cydia.
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Why must they cooperate with Cydia? Installer, regardless of repository format, has been providing users with access to apps since the beginning, and suddenly because Cydia is open source, Installer should apologize and then mimic it? Again, pretentious. That's a "mine is better than yours, so yours should aspire to be like mine" attitude. I'm an Apple fanatic, owning at least five major products of theirs, but even I detest Apple owners who display such an attitude towards Windows users, and this is essentially the same situation. I wouldn't want the whole world to run only on Macs; in fact, while I like that Apple is gaining popularity, I quite enjoy that Mac users are still the minority by a wide margin.
The world is big enough for Installer and Cydia both; if two package delivery apps in addition to the AppStore are too much for you, then simply don't use Installer unless you absolutely have to, just as I will with Cydia. But there's absolutely no justification for you or anyone else to call for Installer's demise.
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Originally Posted by iPhoneMadness
I don't see why there's so much hate for either one of these applications. What are you guy's really argueing about... and most importantly, why? These arguments are getting really ridiculous as well.
Everyone here should be thanking their lucky stars for putting out applications like these that make the iPhone 200x better... for FREE.
This is, of course, aimed at the people that can't help but turn their nose up at anyone that doesn't agree with their opinions.
Anyways, these are great applications and I can't wait for Installer to be released.
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I agree wholeheartedly. I don't hate Cydia at all, and I hope that those who like Cydia more than Installer continue to have that opportunity to choose it. I prefer Installer, and I would like in return the same ability to choose to use that instead of Cydia. What I can't tolerate are those who argue in favor of one being removed from the picture entirely, whether it be Installer or Cydia. That's when it starts getting a little Hitler-esque.
I extend heartfelt thanks to both the Installer folks as well as the Cydia folks in producing programs that we all can use to download our fave apps.
07-28-2008, 12:19 AM
its like a book,
Linear Mode
