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Thread: Installer 4 Preview - PICSis a discussion within the
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07-25-2008, 10:04 PM #81
07-25-2008, 11:45 PM #82
07-26-2008, 01:32 AM #83
Neither Installer nor Cydia control the quality or quantity of the apps, they just install 'em. Yes Installer could (in 1.1.4 and below) add unofficial sources and Cydia can't. Cydia already has some support for adding sources now, and Saurik has made sources the project's top priority, so I don't think it'll be too much more of a wait.
I think it's great that Cydia came out first for 2.0, because now it may have a chance to completely supplant Installer. Why do we need three package installers (including the AppStore)? What possible benefit does this have other than forcing you to check multiple locations for updates? What all of you really want is the quantity of apps available in Installer, not Installer itself.
Cydia is just plain better even if it's not as pretty.
Who writes installer? Why do they do it? What if they start charging a fee to use it? What if they start installing spyware without your knowledge? How would you know? Nullriver is just some company (that's now selling apps on the AppStore) who has who knows what agenda for Installer.
Ever installed something in Installer that told you, once installed, that you have to install something else before you can use it? Yeah, Cydia and every other package manager in the world would have done that for you (it's called dependencies).
In short, I agree that most iPhone users would be best off waiting. But you're not waiting for Installer.
Last edited by zauriel; 07-26-2008 at 01:35 AM.
07-26-2008, 01:58 AM #84
I have pwnd up too 2.0 and am quite happy with cydia. It's not as bad as ppl make out for godsake. Think everyone needs to chilli out a little installer is just around the corner. I myself would just like to be upto date on everything!
07-26-2008, 04:44 AM #85
I think that everyone needs to calm down a little. Why is the whole installer/cydia thing such a heated debate? I personally could care less which one makes you pop a trouser tent. Thanks to all the developers responsible for cydia and installer; without you I could never pimp my phone.I can't wait until the day after yesterday's tomorrow.
07-26-2008, 10:22 AM #86
Listen, I've gotta say, I like Cydia, and while I agree with those that say the Cydia hate is 99% centered around the lack of apps and n00bs who're begging for their summerboard, I have to say that cydia is horridly unstable and crashes consistently on my 3G. I've had nothing but problems with it since I installed it and had the exact same problems on my iPod touch 1.1.4. These problems never happened with installer - it's been stable and issue-free on my touch since 1.1.1. So while Cydia may get the job done, I'd prefer to have a stable, well-rounded program than a rushed, open effort.
Last edited by lostgame; 07-26-2008 at 11:53 AM.
07-26-2008, 03:09 PM #87
I'd have to agree with lostgame. As far as stability, personally I think Installer does an excellent job. I had Cydia back on my 1.1.3 (maybe it has improved since then) and had nothing but issues with it - and issues with uninstalling it. But, to each their own. I can't wait for this new Installer to come out. It's looking great. And just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, there is no need to for repwning the iPhone to put the new Installer on there, correct? Like mentioned above, it's an app just like any other?
07-26-2008, 07:18 PM #88
Last edited by imode; 07-26-2008 at 07:26 PM.
07-27-2008, 01:10 AM #89
lh99 - couldn't agree more.
07-27-2008, 01:45 AM #90
Awesome, hope to have all three on my phone when this comes out. Now if my borken glass screen could fix itself with a program that would be sweet.
07-27-2008, 06:01 AM #91
There really is no need for installer any more.. It should just be left to die, like it inevitably will in the future.
~ The wonderful world of iPod ♫
07-27-2008, 06:17 AM #92
and when it will be the release date
07-27-2008, 06:24 AM #93
2.0 supported? I found that installer is much more easy to use than cydia.
07-27-2008, 07:04 AM #94
Am I the only one who finds this somewhat... ugly?
The graphics look almost cheesy and way too big for me.Thanks,
07-27-2008, 07:07 AM #95
I like cydia now it is great!
07-27-2008, 09:00 AM #96
nice pics o installer. loved those. i hope it's coming soon so i can pwn my iphone again to install the installer
07-27-2008, 12:06 PM #97
the facts are, installer is not open source. if the owners had a profit motive, if there were accidental or intentional vulnerabilities, or if a hole suddenly opened up and they disappeared, there could be huge ramifications. Not so with Cydia. The source code is available for peer review and improvement, if Saurik had ill intentions or could no longer support the project, it would live on through others.
i'm not saying the installer folks aren't honorable, well intentioned people. i have no idea, but frankly, it's not something i need to worry about with Cydia.
what's continually lacking is an argument based on installer's technical merits. what is it about installer that's better than Cydia? while there are many arguments in favor of Cydia's apt system, which is well documented and tried on millions of linux/bsd systems over many years, i haven't heard a single pro-point for installer.
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, eh?
Last edited by vinividiiphone; 07-27-2008 at 12:40 PM.
07-27-2008, 12:20 PM #98
Looks nice, I like installer alot moreMy girl left me because she caught me cheating on her with my Iphone but oh well haha
07-27-2008, 01:09 PM #99
I really do like how the Dev Team (and Saurik specifically) actually talk about what's going on, why they're doing it, what problems they're having, etc. This may not mean a lot to the casual user who doesn't understand how programming/hacking works, but it means a whole lot to me. I like knowing what I'm installing, rather than just blindly loading whatever binaries look interesting.
I'm still upset with Nullriver for never following through with their promise to make Installer open-source. There are certain things that make sense to be closed-source, but an app like Installer does not. It's not like there's any really secret technology in use in Installer; there are plenty of open source apps that have similar navigation, features, etc (Cydia, for example). I can't think of a reason to keep it closed other than future plans to add AppStore-like purchasing features or monthly usage charges (either of which might explain RipDev's involvement). That's fine if they want to start incorporating a fees-based model, but I think most of us who want to buy apps will buy them through the AppStore, and most devs will want to sell there too due to the much larger audience. I've considered buying things like Kate and Intelliscreen before, but I value the Apple updates over these mods and don't want to end up having to choose between the next firmware update and a 3rd party hack I already paid for.
Why does open-source matter? I guess it's more idealism on my part (and many others), but in a small development community (especially one at the mercy of Apple's whims at all times), sharing of information is crucial for developers to continue to improve their software and keep pace with firmware updates. It just makes for better software. If Installer were open-source, the unofficial iPhone developers could review and improve the code as they find issues working with it. Since Installer is a community app (it supports applications from hundreds of developers), doesn't it make sense for those developers to have input into the program that installs their apps? Right now, they can just email Nullriver/RipDev and hope that they have the time to work on something eventually. Cydia solves all of these problems. Even if it's not perfect yet, it'll get updated and improve faster than Installer simply because it's open-source (and now it's being heavily used in Installer's absence).
For the record, Apple has made a few missteps along the way, such as the hockey puck mouse and the reflective dock in OS X Leopard, but they're pretty good as a whole.
From my perspective, and I've been using both package managers since they first came out, most of the differences are cosmetic. Cydia has a much better "Changes" screen. Installer lets you add apps to a queue (which gets screwed up if something in the queue fails to install, but it's still nice). Other than that, what differences are there? The new Cydia icon is, in my opinion, as nice as Installer's. So unless you hate brown for some reason, what's so great about Installer?
Since I haven't seen any logical arguments for Installer, I have to assume that most of its proponents want the apps it used to have.
07-27-2008, 03:54 PM #100
today the installer does not show recent programs like of today , yesterday and day before when refreshing it.
Is there anything wrong with it ?