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Thread: Nominations for Cydia's "Featured Themes" Section (HD)

  1. #401
    iPhone? More like MyPhone trentmorris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saurik View Post
    As far as I can tell, you are claiming that I am evil in this section because I'm not promoting DreamBoard themes.
    Saurik,

    Please know that those whiny kids who consider you "evil" speak from a rotten minority. The rest of us, myself very much included, are extremely grateful for all you've done and continue to do for this community.

    There are a really only a handful of people who have [almost] singlehandedly built and secured the future prosperity of our jailbreak community. And you, good sir, are at the top of that list. (With miles between you and second place.)

    Don't let the ignorant and absentminded get you down. The other 99% of us have your back.

    Cheers! :)



    (p.s. I don't get DreamBoard. When themers stray from the iOS foundation; You end up with clunky user interfaces, sloppy icons, and hideous widgets. If you don't want your iPhone to even slightly resemble an iPhone.. don't buy an iPhone. You might be happy with an Android if you want your phone to look like a 5th grader designed the OS.)

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  3. #402
    Thank you Saurik for everything you do for "us"

  4. #403
    Won't let me edit from mobile, I guess the huge quote was a bad idea... Hit up 2k1 to fix it.

    On the other side my only thing to say is, Trent why bash dreamboard and say it makes the os look like a 5th grader designed it? Sure there are plenty of poor quality dreamboard themes but I can name a lot of very low quality winterboard themes.

    The thread got way off topic, I was just hoping that a theme, with a lot of winterboard elements, and a beautiful UI with amazing widgets could get recognized.

  5. #404
    Owner / Founder - ModMyi
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentmorris View Post
    Saurik,

    Please know that those whiny kids who consider you "evil" speak from a rotten minority. The rest of us, myself very much included, are extremely grateful for all you've done and continue to do for this community.

    There are a really only a handful of people who have [almost] singlehandedly built and secured the future prosperity of our jailbreak community. And you, good sir, are at the top of that list. (With miles between you and second place.)

    Don't let the ignorant and absentminded get you down. The other 99% of us have your back.

    Cheers!
    This!

    Well put saurik - and I much appreciate the time you took to address a forum rant. Thanks!
    .


    ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A [select] [start] Kyle Matthews

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  7. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by trentmorris View Post
    Saurik,

    Please know that those whiny kids who consider you "evil" speak from a rotten minority. The rest of us, myself very much included, are extremely grateful for all you've done and continue to do for this community.

    There are a really only a handful of people who have [almost] singlehandedly built and secured the future prosperity of our jailbreak community. And you, good sir, are at the top of that list. (With miles between you and second place.)

    Don't let the ignorant and absentminded get you down. The other 99% of us have your back.

    Cheers!



    (p.s. I don't get DreamBoard. When themers stray from the iOS foundation; You end up with clunky user interfaces, sloppy icons, and hideous widgets. If you don't want your iPhone to even slightly resemble an iPhone.. don't buy an iPhone. You might be happy with an Android if you want your phone to look like a 5th grader designed the OS.)
    First off if you took the time to read through my original rants as well as my apology afterwards, I made absolute sure to mention how i am grateful and truely admire everything that saurik did to single-handedly build the cydia platform to open up apples walled garden and the hours on end he dedicated to it. And given the light saurik has just shed on the topic, it seems that has done it all without making much at all, possibly even losing money on all if that. And from that realization I take back all statements I made with regards to greed and harsh comments on the lack of support, which through his choice to reply here shows that I was wrong about that too.

    As for your p.s. thing at the end- I am deeply insulted and hurt by your statement. Wyndwarrior is truely an amazing developer and a pioneer in his creation of perpagehtml and Dreamboard. Dreamboard is exactly the complete opposite of a clunky platform. Dreamboard was built as a platform to allow themers and developers to make themes that have features that would normally require tons of clunky ram-intensive mobile substrates like gridlock and many others without needing to use them, therefore saving RAM to make it less clunky than the intense winterboard themes that require them while adding tons of features not even possible through mobile substrates. That not only makes it a million times easier for the themers to add tons of features without worrying about ram usage and to easily integrate complex widgets in the home screen, but it also makes it a million times easier for the user that doesnt have to install tons of ram-intensive mobile substrates just to run a really cool theme. And I am deeply insulted by your statement that dreamboard themes make your phone look like its by a fifth grader. Just open up cydia and tell me how many paid crappy winterboard themes there are. Thousands. Tens of thousands. They completely bloat up cydia with crap made by amateur artists who try to charge for literally a crappy background and icons they found on google images. But there are certainly many beautiful and amazing winterboard themes out there made by the best themers here at MMi and I absolutely admire the themes and the hard work that went into them. But if you look at the dreamboard section here at MMi, you will see the equally as beautiful themes that equally took hours and hours on end on graphics as well as thousands of lines of coding to add features that would otherwise be difficult or impossible to easily add to winterboard themes. And iSTS, a dreamboard theme created by myself, them3this, gan-man, schnedi, and altoiddealer is an excellent example of all the hard work put into a dreamboard theme that looks absolutely stunning and is full of features with very little RAM drain. I literally spent MONTHS building the original graphics, going through literally hundreds of concepts in photoshop. My latest psd has over 300 layers and I continue to work on graphics. The rest of the crew were just as dedicated to helping me to turn it into a real theme with them3this spending countless hours on thousands of lines of code an implementing things previously thought impossible like being able to rotate the center circle launcher and much more. Schnedi spent countless hours building my insane widget concepts and made them fully working and amazing. Altoiddealer spent countless hours fixing all my huge alignment issues in my insane psds, being a HUGE help with graphics as well as coding, and just an awesome help in making the theme a reality. And gan-man made some amazing winterboar UI that he similarly spent countless hours tediously making each tiny little element in the same manner that the great winterboard themers here have made beautiful UI themes. So ists is a clear example that your misinformed sterotype that all dreamboard themes are cluncky and made by 5th graders couldnt be further from the truth.

    As for your final statement that if I want to completely change the looks, why mot get an android phone: The reason I dont get an android phone is because honestly while android lets tweaks in the android market like cydia does, these tweaks are crappy and nothing compared to the great tweaks by the amazing developers in cydia. And I give huge props to saurik for creating a platform and attracting such a powerful community of developers to make the amazing tweaks you see in cydia. And while there are communties like xda for android, I love the community here and have been here since I jailbroke my first gen ipod touch, long before the popularity of android and I love the community here. And i dont see anything wrong with trying to completely change the interface. Theres nothing I hate more than apples ugly stock, outdated aqua interface along with recent additions to add to the skeuomorphic ugliness. But the new stores in ios 6 are an exception to that though. And I love my iphone, and I like the ios platform better because there are much higher quality apps. While android may boost a similar 500,000+ app count, most of those "apps" are crappy themes, ringtones, and tons of low quality apps. Not to mention the pathetic tablet app count being in the hundreds when apple has over 200,000 ipad apps. And i love my ipad too and jailbroke it.

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  9. #406
    Kudos to you Leo for taking that like a man. There is nothing bad with being wrong. We all are. It's how you handle it that matters and you handled that like a solid man. On another note I have used Dreamboard and I really liked certain features that it offered. What pushed me away was the necessity to run WB to have a full UI. So effectively the structure that was made to conserve resources (RAM) was not really the case. Two platforms are required so it didn't do that. For me it was a brilliant idea that isn't complete. Has that been worked out? If so Id for one stop skipping the Dreamboard themes.

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  11. #407
    Glad to finally see people have learned to ignore me. Though my post is more poignant then people may realize.

    Anyway, saurik can I be your 3rd employee? I don't need a profit sharing plan.

  12. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    Kudos to you Leo for taking that like a man. There is nothing bad with being wrong. We all are. It's how you handle it that matters and you handled that like a solid man. On another note I have used Dreamboard and I really liked certain features that it offered. What pushed me away was the necessity to run WB to have a full UI. So effectively the structure that was made to conserve resources (RAM) was not really the case. Two platforms are required so it didn't do that. For me it was a brilliant idea that isn't complete. Has that been worked out? If so Id for one stop skipping the Dreamboard themes.
    As a Themer for DB and I've made some of the themes with the most widgets I'll say it's no different in RAM usage truly. Just ease for the user. A DB theme requires WB only for the UI images, which I think at least don't use much ram at all. Now it would be a lot nicer if I could incorporate that all into my theme, and turn WB off as a MS. Then I would never use WB again.
    But take for instance EPHD 2012 I'm sure anyone who still uses backboard could have saved literally 500 different widget combos. All with different iconoclasm layouts, wallpapers, the whole setup. An as a user its a slight pain to go from one awesome LS/SB combo from Durben to a different one from Max P. In dreamboard I can code in all 500 possibilities into one theme. Using updated features in DB, I can setup one start-up menu that the user picks his entire setup, and then can easily switch at any time without respringing, and it would be very RAM friendly. Ive been saying for years, the two don't compete, it's not comparing fruit to fruit they each have a speciality. Per-page HTML I'm sure gets a work out from all these amazing mods. But dreamboard is a tool that allows coders and graphic artists to help each other and make the easiest/awesomest product to the customer.

    I honestly feel though not once has this been done, and I feel it would be a great way to integrate the community into what dreamboard offers. I talked with BARS a while back and he was down with me making and EPHD dreamboard theme with a menu that allowed the user every possible option. Automatically changing icon positions, wallpapers, anything that mod needed. I'll try to work on it, I just feel dreamboard gets a cold shoulder because of graphics.

    I just picture themes mostly like BlueMetals as dreamboard. It would make the users life so much easier, and wouldn't require any add ons but Winterboard

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  14. #409
    iPhone? More like MyPhone trentmorris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Them3this View Post
    Won't let me edit from mobile, I guess the huge quote was a bad idea... Hit up 2k1 to fix it.

    On the other side my only thing to say is, Trent why bash dreamboard and say it makes the os look like a 5th grader designed it? Sure there are plenty of poor quality dreamboard themes but I can name a lot of very low quality winterboard themes.

    The thread got way off topic, I was just hoping that a theme, with a lot of winterboard elements, and a beautiful UI with amazing widgets could get recognized.
    I'm sorry. I was very tired and frustrated last night when I wrote that. I was angry from reading the posts to which Saurik needed to defend himself from.

    I was in no way suggesting that all WinterBoard themes are well made nor that DreamBoard themers are all "5th graders", quite the contrary. The majority of themes on Cydia, both Winterboard and DreamBoard, are very poorly made. I think I'm just a purest when it comes to theming. I like to use the original iOS structure and enhance it. DreamBoard is much more open, and allows for themes to make your iPhone look nothing like one.

    But to each their own. I didn't meant to insult you Them3this, or anyone who enjoys DreamBoard. :)

    (Maybe it's about time for this hi-jacked discussion to be moved to another thread? Well I guess since the Featured Themes in Cydia is done being updated we don't really need a Nominations thread anyhow. But if it is updated, I'd like to nominate my theme Newport. haha)

    edit: I guess the Featured Themes were updated. And ouch, Newport was left out. :(
    Last edited by trentmorris; 07-29-2012 at 04:47 PM.

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  16. #410
    Newport btw. Is a nice theme Trent and appreciate the response. We're all mature here. And it's a great forum. Back on topic.

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  18. #411
    Love how trent responds to them3this' reponse and not mine. Whatever, his required less reading lol. Nice theme by the way trent.

    Just wish saurik would come back and answer the questions with regards to pirate repos on cydia as well as reconsidering Dreamboard as a very much alive, running, and absolutely not buggy platform that is equally deserving of a spot in featured themes. I wish he would reconsider and take the time to read my replies. But he built the foundation and filled it with everything in it and then corrected all of my false statements, guess I cant really expect much more from the poor guy. I took enough of his time and energy with my first rant.

  19. #412
    My iPhone is a Part of Me kimvy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    Love how trent responds to them3this' reponse and not mine. Whatever, his required less reading lol. Nice theme by the way trent.

    Just wish saurik would come back and answer the questions with regards to pirate repos on cydia as well as reconsidering Dreamboard as a very much alive, running, and absolutely not buggy platform that is equally deserving of a spot in featured themes. I wish he would reconsider and take the time to read my replies. But he built the foundation and filled it with everything in it and then corrected all of my false statements, guess I cant really expect much more from the poor guy. I took enough of his time and energy with my first rant.
    He won't. It's been brought up before on threads he's responded to and pointedly ignored. It is a darn good question that never gets answered.

  20. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by trentmorris View Post
    (...Well I guess since the Featured Themes in Cydia is done being updated we don't really need a Nominations thread anyhow. But if it is updated, I'd like to nominate my theme Newport. haha)

    edit: I guess the Featured Themes were updated. And ouch, Newport was left out.
    (FWIW, that theme apparently actually *was* "on the list", but it was on the list two weeks ago, and that update was weird: MacCiti was AFK (I do not remember the cause) and I thereby got the list through someone else, which then caused it to be misfiled on my end and never added to the page. It was Britta, for the record, that read this comment from you and figured out what happened. The list has been updated again, but doesn't change until the end of the hour.)

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  22. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by saurik View Post
    (FWIW, that theme apparently actually *was* "on the list", but it was on the list two weeks ago, and that update was weird: MacCiti was AFK (I do not remember the cause) and I thereby got the list through someone else, which then caused it to be misfiled on my end and never added to the page. It was Britta, for the record, that read this comment from you and figured out what happened. The list has been updated again, but doesn't change until the end of the hour.)
    You come back to reply to that yet continue to leave the questions of pirate repos on cydia and reconsidering a dreamboard section of the featured themes on the basis of statements made to clarify the fact that dreamboard is very much alive and not buggy unanswered.

  23. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by kimvy View Post
    He won't. It's been brought up before on threads he's responded to and pointedly ignored. It is a darn good question that never gets answered.
    Look: I maintain that DreamBoard does, in fact, have serious bugs (of the form "I am stuck in a theme and can't escape: I can't run Cydia or run any apps, and I'm now entirely screwed"; the kind of issue that causes many users to just end up restoring), and it is true that the developer no longer maintains it; there is absolutely no reason that has a shred of sense behind it for why I would not want to support it better if it were actually something that a lot of people were happily using: the truth is simply that it isn't; it has issues and is mostly something that concerns a small number of hard core theme artists.

    As for piracy, that question is a "broken record": I have answered it numerous times, on this forum, on reddit, on Twitter, in talks at conferences (including JailbreakCon); a simple Google search for "saurik piracy" even brings up numerous blog posts documenting second-hand descriptions of various of my responses to this question: pages and pages of them. I do not understand why people are unable or unwilling to just read or listen to older discussions of this.

    The short answer, however, is: it is fundamentally impossible to block piracy on a platform that the user controls; to do so would require locking down the jailbreak to make "Cydia the new Apple" and ridding the idea of third-party repositories from the ecosystem. The default repositories are all very anti-piracy, as is Cydia's moderation and marketing efforts.If Cydia attempted to block specific pirate repositories entirely (as opposed to all of the third-party ones), it would be worked around with randomized URLs, patches to Cydia would disable the functionality, Cydia itself would likely be replaced by something "designed for piracy" in numerous alternative jailbreaks (undermining the anti-piracy mission), and after all of that failure the result would just be that I would then be legally responsible for the piracy.

    Cydia is a web browser: it cannot nor should it attempt to decide what content a user can use it to access. It cannot block people from anything: it does not limit you from things that are illegal in my country, things that I find obscene, things that I disagree with, things that I simply don't like, or things that are unethical (subjectively or objectively: choose your philosophy).

    To attempt to do so is both futile and against the idea of an open device: it undermines the entire reason we are jailbreaking in the first place, and it would simply serve to give me, someone you don't seem to even like or agree with, power over your device with the ability to pick and choose what software you can and can't install; if there were a second me, and the first me did that, the second me would feel the need to encourage the community to "re-jailbreak" the now-closed platform.

    So, the stance that it should do so or even that it should be possible to do so (as, again, it technically is not without re-securing the jailbreak experience under centralized control) is a vote a) for Apple's closed App Store and b) a vote for SOPA (the anti-piracy legislation based on the premise that the Internet should black-hole websites that pirate content; the one that half the Internet, including ModMyi's blog, stood up to protest).

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeo View Post
    You come back to reply to that yet continue to leave the questions of pirate repos on cydia and reconsidering a dreamboard section of the featured themes on the basis of statements made to clarify the fact that dreamboard is very much alive and not buggy unanswered.
    Actually, I was just typing. However, I do not understand why you feel the question of piracy is unanswered: that is simply a blatant lie: go and do a Google search for "saurik piracy" and you can find tons of resources about my answer to this. What possible basis do you have to believe that I'm ignoring this question? This is just stupid. If you have further questions, take them to Google: I'm done paying attention to you and legitimizing your rants.
    Last edited by saurik; 07-30-2012 at 01:11 PM.

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  25. #416
    Bro you've been served twice in two days now. Best to say sorry and move on. LOL

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  27. #417
    There's no serving going on in either direction. Just misinformed people becoming "informed".

    And I haven't heard of any of these dreamboard horrors since early betas of the app. And I use/code/play with it everyday.

    Dreamboard will never be "finished", would be like saying windows7 is an unfinished OS because windows8 is coming out. No DB is finished as far as Wynd wanted it to be. And any updates will be from developers using the open source code and adding features themselves. But dynamic views alone almost make dreamboard a must IMO.

  28. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    Bro you've been served twice in two days now. Best to say sorry and move on. LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Them3this View Post
    There's no serving going on in either direction. Just misinformed people becoming "informed".

    And I haven't heard of any of these dreamboard horrors since early betas of the app. And I use/code/play with it everyday.

    Dreamboard will never be "finished", would be like saying windows7 is an unfinished OS because windows8 is coming out. No DB is finished as far as Wynd wanted it to be. And any updates will be from developers using the open source code and adding features themselves. But dynamic views alone almost make dreamboard a must IMO.
    Yep, went against my own promise that I would do research before saying stuff like that again. But to be fair I wasnt the only one asking about the piracy issue and saurik didnt respond to it in my original rant. Again I sincerely apologize for my misinformedness, my ignorance, and I am sorry for once again taking more of sauriks time to answer the same question hes been asked a million times elsewhere. And all of his answers make sense, especially given the light he shed on them especially the comparsion to SOPA. I now see that blocking the pirate repos not only wouldnt work and would just cause pirates to circumvent cydia or find other ways to add their repo but would actually hurt the entire open source ideaology and foundation that cydia was built on. Its been shown all too often that attacking piracy and hacking only makes things worse, ie- the pirate bay, the app pirating store I cannot discuss here, Sony, megaupload and the backlash,and I should have realized that sooner.

    While I still disagree that Dreamboard is a dead and buggy platform to the extent that saurik argues, I do acknololedge that wyndwarrior has seemingly disappeared from any further development, but given the amount of dreamboard themes out there, I would highly doubt he would not update Dreamboard to ios 6. And Im sure there are many dreamboard developers and themers here as well as users that can personally vouch that Dreamboard is in fact not a buggy platform. Nonetheless I also acknoledge that in comparison to winterboard based themes, especially outside the realm of MMi, the amount of people using and even with knowledge of dreamboard doesnt compare to that of winterboard. But then again, tons of people are happy installing crappy wallpaper and icon themes for free for sports teams or justin bieber or crap like that. But I still believe that given all the hours on end of effort put into beautiful and highly functional dreamboard themes that have low ram drain compared to their high end winterboard counterparts that are featured in cydia, Dreamboard themers deserve the same opportunity to promote their themes to make it so there is an audience and so people learn about dreamboard. The biggest reason that people dont buy dreamboard themes is directly related to not knowing about them because they arent featured in cydia. And for that very same reason Dreamboard themers, especially when theres a large crew to make it happen like myself and the iSTS crew with the purpose of making the best possible theme out there, it is very disheartening to hear that we are denied the equal opportunity get the featured status that we rightfully earned and diserve, in tern discouraging themers like myself from wanting to continue to make Dreamboard themes or even any themes at all due to the unfair discrimination on the basis our choice to use a superior platform to winterboard alone.

  29. #419
    Theme Kingpin TCcentex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saurik View Post
    ...If you have further questions, take them to Google: I'm done paying attention to you and legitimizing your rants.
    I don't know how or why you do it Jay, but as a partaker of this wonderful ecosystem you helped create I'd like to thank you for you for all you've done and continue to do to for a community that sadly doesn't give you the credit you deserve. Seeing you responding to user-level questions like this just blows me away. Thanks.

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  31. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Them3this View Post
    There's no serving going on in either direction. Just misinformed people becoming "informed".

    And I haven't heard of any of these dreamboard horrors since early betas of the app. And I use/code/play with it everyday.

    Dreamboard will never be "finished", would be like saying windows7 is an unfinished OS because windows8 is coming out. No DB is finished as far as Wynd wanted it to be. And any updates will be from developers using the open source code and adding features themselves. But dynamic views alone almost make dreamboard a must IMO.
    "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo da Vinci

    By this definition, DreamBoard is, in fact, "finished" (which is the opposite of your point, but your point was arguing a strawman: I never claimed that DreamBoard needed to be finished, I was saying it was already over): it was explicitly discontinued by the developer over a year ago, which is why it no longer costs $3 and is free. I do not know why, but I do know that this directive came from WyndWarrior. The project is also not open source, so there will be no updates from third parties: there is a Google Code project, but it does not hold any code for DreamBoard; it is only a Wiki and some folders used to store some of its old paid theme parts.

    Meanwhile, DreamBoard has fewer than 100 themes in Cydia: it doesn't need a special mechanism to provide a "featured list" for them; the various simple WinterBoard themes needed that because there are seriously over 25,000 of them in Cydia currently. If a user wants to get a list of DreamBoard themes, the list of DreamBoard themes is already quite short (shorter, in fact, than the list of other featured themes). The Theme Center was also able to directly add value to the search by providing automated screenshot compositing on an ad-free landing page: DreamBoard themes really just need to come with their own screenshots.

    I thereby don't understand what you all are arguing about here: this is a project that the developer no longer works on, no longer wants to work on, has bugs (remember: users send me all kinds of bugs for things available in Cydia; I can appreciate you might not believe these exist), will never be updated or changed, cannot be updated or changed, and is not very popular to begin with; are you saying I should be going out of my way to make it more popular? I didn't build the Theme Center to make WinterBoard popular: it was a direct reaction to WinterBoard being too popular for its own good.

    Alternatively, is the idea that I'm somehow being unfair to DreamBoard? Right now, it seems like nearly all of the themes for DreamBoard are paid themes sold via my payment system. I am having hard time coming up with a reasonable argument by which I'd somehow be attempting to stifle these themes: it isn't like I make more money from the sale of a WinterBoard theme, and it isn't like people pay for WinterBoard itself. DreamBoard doesn't have a featured section simply because it isn't already popular (the criteria I apply, in general, for promoting things) and is actively and explicitly discontinued; again, it came up, I am the person who wanted it to happen, but in the end it simply didn't make sense, and it has only made less sense in the intervening year.

    (I now believe that I should simply be done with this entire off-topic thread hijack, as opposed to just SnowLeo.)
    Last edited by saurik; 07-30-2012 at 03:21 PM.

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