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Thread: Thousands Sign iPad Anti-DRM Petition

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Quote from Ticko that really sounds sooo ignorant especially since you are posting on a JAILBREAKING forum. honestly if you just buy products just to buy the cool new fad
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  1. #21
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    Quote from Ticko
    that really sounds sooo ignorant especially since you are posting on a JAILBREAKING forum. honestly if you just buy products just to buy the cool new fad instead of buying a product that is some USE to you and ease of use than just send all your money down to me because there are a lot of products i like that don't fit all my needs hence the need to buy a coffee maker and dish washer they perform 2 different functions and until the day they make a coffee making dishwasher will i buy that. and people buy the product they choose to be most beneficial to them and just because the iphone is really cool and has a lot of benefits it is missing A LOT of important stuff that most phones put for common place these days such as the ability to change the background on the home screen... I MEAN COME ON man i know your background is different so obviously that is something that u didnt like about the phone so why did u buy it?
    Its not ignorant to say if you don't like it then don't buy it, especially when its not a necessity like a "coffee maker or dishwasher" is to some or someones not forcing you to buy it. If one of your friends bought a new car and kept complaining to you all the time about how much he hates it I think after while you'd get sick of it and be wondering, "well if you hate it so much then why do you have it or why did you get it in the first place?" especially when there are plenty of other options out there that can get the job done. No one wants to hear people complain over and over about how much they hate their phone, if you don't like the iPhone or Apple then go get a phone running Android or something else.


    I think the point is being missed. It isn't ppl complaining about the iPhone or whether or not they hate it. It is a matter of ownership and control. If you bought a car and they told you can't put new wheels on it would you not be pissed? Or you could only buy their wheels... Yea I could go buy a car from someone else that does the job, but it isn't the point. I bought it.. I own it ... I shout be able to use it and change it to suit me and my needs. Other than that I am just leasing it. They should offer a trade in program then.

    P.S. Coffee makers and dishwashers are not necessities .. Lol
    Last edited by Spinnitt; 02-09-2010 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. #22
    Livin the iPhone Life Happy Noodle Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
    That's a bit contradictive. SecuROM didn't simply get "blown out of proportion", it is an absolutely awful DRM measure. Paying customers basically rent the games for $50 (three activations and you're done), while the pirates just strip it out and have no issues at all. When it's easier to use the pirated version of the game than the retail one, you have a serious issue.
    Hmmm, yes the dreaded "three activations" argument. You install it on your PC, that takes one activation. You uninstall, decide to play it again. Guess what? That's still the same activation!

    Oh no! Your computer got hit by a virus/truck/meteor! So you reformat, oh hey I want to play this game again. Welp, that's my second activation. I'm down to one activation. Oh wait, I'm not because most activations now come with either a license removal tool or they de-authorize computers that haven't been active.

    The only, and I really mean only time an activation DRM will affect you is if you're a freak that reformats his PC every month. I reformat my PC every year (Dec31/Jan1), I have games with tons of DRM. I've been playing them for years and I have yet to run into a situation where I can't play the game because of DRM.

    Games For Windows Live (GFWL) games have a 15 activation limit (15! that's FITEEN FRIGGING DIFFERENT COMPUTERS/REFORMATS YOU CAN GO THROUGH) and even then you can have them reset it every year.

    Seriously, DRM in itself isn't bad because software should have some protection in order to ensure the paying costumer doesn't get hurt by people pirating it.

    Another example I just remember: The Ghostbusters game that came out a bit ago received a ton of bad user reviews across the net because it was "buggy" and had enemies that were invincible, making some levels almost impossible to beat. Guess what? These were "issues" that happened when you cracked and illegally downloaded the game. So now you have a ton of reviews out there saying the game is bad and actual people who might have bought the game read this and decide not to.
    Last edited by Happy Noodle Boy; 02-09-2010 at 12:51 PM.

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    Green Apple tremerone's Avatar
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    I personally think the guy in the picture should spend less time worrying about the iPad and get himself a toothbrush. Maybe going to see a dentist instead of "protesting". Use an iPhone to store some numbers in...and get laid.

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    Livin the iPhone Life Bernie-Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandstorm77 View Post
    I so sick of people complaining about a tethered jailbreak. Seriously! My iPhone requires a tethered jailbreak. Do you know how many times i had to reboot my phone Since Jan when i bought it. NONE.
    Then you obviously havent installed winterboard yet. I dont care who you are, tethered JB is an inconvenience, i appreciate everything from the dev team and its better than nothing but god forbid something happens to your phone when your out and you have to reboot it, you have an iBrick until you can find a computer and usb.

    January? so you've had it for a month? Lol, come back in a few months and im certain your tune will change with tethered JBs
    iLive an iLife

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauldanielash View Post
    (NB: books are in an open format ePub)
    Actually, they're using ePub wrapped in DRM, so it isn't open. You may be able to use ePub books from other stores, but the ones you buy from Apple will be locked to only your device.

  7. #26
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    Xbox DLC, borked if you have to get it replaced. Hassle to get it fixed cause nobody at Microsoft knows WTF they are talking about and you get passed around. Had some purchased iTunes music that wouldn't play, so I stripped the DRM off it and worked great (already paid for). Want to watch my purchased hi-def movies through my Xbox that I bought in iTunes? Nope, DRM won't let me. Want to listen to my music from iTunes that has DRM through my 6.1 system attached to my TV through my Xbox? Nope, DRM won't let me. But HEY! I can always pay 1/3 again the price to get it DRM free! (though you can pay for a higher bitrate at the same time so there is a small perk to go with it) The limitation reset in iTunes really helps, but it shouldn't be there in the first place.

    Want to rip a copy of a movie to keep on my WHS so I can just sit down and watch it without having to turn on another peripheral? Illegal, even though you own it. It's legal to make the copy, but not to break the encryption on the disc. Want to record broadcast TV (sporting events) in HD? Oh wait, have to buy some stupid proprietary adapter and then have cables going everywhere, and it's STILL illegal to do so. HDMI makes everything cleaner behind the TV, but you can't record anything using it. I have tons of things I'd like to keep archived, but can't because it costs too much to do and is too big a pain.

    Want to modify the hardware you paid for (iPhone)? Nope, Apple won't let you. That's why I jailbrake! The second I can't jailbreak, I'm gone. Want to modify something you bought from Apple? Maybe, depends on what you do. A Genius at the Charleston Apple store was telling me that since my 17 inch MPB was only three months old they would replace it when the backlight went out. BUT he said that if I brought it in again for trouble and I still had my dock and other things modified with CandyBar they wouldn't honor anything software wise (anything!) because I had modified the OS and it wasn't covered. I almost told him and Apple to go **** themselves and walk out. That kind of crap is totalitarian and has no place in society. None. It's yours, you bought it, and should be able to use it as you see fit. Trouble calls notwithstanding, and I know it would be a nightmare to deal with depending on what it was, but to straight out tell someone after they've bought something they can't even change icons is absurd.

    I think the issue here is that they are afraid this will become and industry standard. Apple already has this locked up with the iPhone, and now the iPad. How long before they do this to any hardware they sell? If they keep taking baby steps it may happen. I don't think it will, but they do things like this for a reason. To lock you into their ecosystem. They did that with the first iPhone and the headphone jack. Completely pointless decision, unless you were making money off the adapters. Same with display adapters, they'll sell you an adapter to fit the other 90% of the display market. Another thing is how they keep removing USB, FireWire and things like that. There's zero reason the 13 inch MacBooks can't have 3 USB ports. None.

    DRM has it's place. If you are making money off it. It has been proven time and again to not thwart thiefs, only the common man that pays for the priviledge of having to jump through hoops to get things to work right, or use it as like you own it.

    BUT, that's still no excuse to steal things. You should pay for what you want, and if you don't want to go through the hassle then don't, that's not to say we shouldn't fight this crap though.

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    iPhoneaholic adrian1480's Avatar
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    ^ that logic is the same reason why I am also against most gun restrictions, and I don't even own one. The reality is that restrictive gun laws only make it more difficult for the law-abiding to protect themselves, while the criminals continue to get theirs off the street in cash exchanges. DRMs only help those making the DRM systems. Common consumers are hurt by the inevitable incompatibilities and issues they cause, while pirates create DRM-free options that are often more attractive because they are more flexible or of higher quality.

    it's a shame. the industry will figure it out one day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy View Post
    You can already use Home Sharing to share all your TV/Movies/Apps between 5 computers under your account. What's the issue here, again? Also, you can have an unlimited number of devices tied to your account and you can have your apps/movies on every single one of those. A family under one iTunes account can potentially have dozens of iPods/iPhones and only pay once for everything (except music)

    Also, while the kill-switch has been present since Day 1, I don't think they've ever used it. Ever. It's more of a "Should this really bad app that could potentially harm the phone gets through, we can deal with it"

    DRM itself isn't an issue. Bad DRM is a problem that harms the consumer. Take Steam for example, a digital distribution platform for PC games. All your games are tied to your account and you can play them on any PC with Steam installed on it.

    Even things like Spore's dreaded activation limit got blown out of proportion and those DRM are there for a reason. You know what happens when a game is released without DRM? It gets pirated to hell and back and no one buys it. World of Goo being the most recent obvious example. An indie game made by 2 people and what do they get in return for all their work? a 90% piracy rate.

    Demi-God, another recent multiplayer title was released without DRM and it got pirated so bad before release that their MP lobby servers died when they weren't ready... since the game wasn't out yet. Then the games is released and they're still recovering from the pirates and actual costumers have a bad MP experience, tarnishing the release and kinda killing the game before it got a chance to shine.

    EDIT: People that pirate have no shame, all you're doing is hurting the developer and consumer at the same time. And it's even more appalling on the App Store where a frigging Big Mac is more expensive than most apps.
    I generally agree, but it's about the principle.

    It's the same reason people don't like big government with the power to look over their phone records or potentially read their e-mails. It's not that they would or wouldn't do it; it's the reality that if they wanted to, they could. It's the kind of out-of-you-hands power that people don't like and haven't liked since the Revolutionary War.

    So while I agree that these systems are somewhat fairly flexible, the principle of having to explain myself to you with regards to how I want to use something I've purchased is a principle matter, whether I could activate 2 times or 20 times. If you're in jail, but are free to go to the cafeteria, watch TV, and use the bathroom as often as you wish, are you not still in jail? Even if it doesn't feel like it every day because all you like to do is eat and watch TV? Of course you are.

    When people don't feel free to make whatever choices they want to make with things they've purchased (good, bad, or otherwise), people rebel. Always have, always will.

    $0.02
    Last edited by adrian1480; 02-09-2010 at 01:26 PM.

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy View Post
    Hmmm, yes the dreaded "three activations" argument. You install it on your PC, that takes one activation. You uninstall, decide to play it again. Guess what? That's still the same activation!

    Oh no! Your computer got hit by a virus/truck/meteor! So you reformat, oh hey I want to play this game again. Welp, that's my second activation. I'm down to one activation. Oh wait, I'm not because most activations now come with either a license removal tool or they de-authorize computers that haven't been active.
    Not always true. That depends on the developer and publisher. Sony got into really hot water about installing a rootkit to check for legit copies of software and it left a HUGE security risk on those computers. They wouldn't fess up to it at first, and when they finally got pressured about it they released a tool that didn't fully remove it. It should have never been there in the first place.

    If you install a game in Steam and go offline they sometimes won't play. I had this issue alot. DRM caused a problem that wouldn't let me play a game I BOUGHT from them online! They know I purchased it from them, yet my computer wouldn't play it without 'phoning home' first. Happened to me in Left 4 Dead 2 just this past saturday. Since I was play it with a shortcut I created IN STEAM it would boot me out of any game I started, you have to use the launch button in Steam to play it. How stupid is that. With current tools available to thieves, I wouldn't have these problems. I paid for it, they didn't, and they can play whenever they want. I can't. Steam has gotten better, but paying customers always suffer.

    Another thing this causes is the developers taking ideas from mod communities and using them in the next games, and locking out mods to the customer. Counter Strike flourishes to this day because of mods, but MW2 doesn't allow it. Why? So they can sell you the things that are distributed for free by passionate fans of those games. You can't boot cheaters either, only IW can. So cheaters, again, prosper at the expense of paying customers. It's a money making scheme for them, and they will milk it for everything they can. And MW2 was nowhere near as good as the first one. There wasn't an original idea in that game.

    You can't defend DRM when for the last 10 years, at least, it's proved to be better for thieves than paying customers.

  11. #29
    Livin the iPhone Life mikerlx's Avatar
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    What sense would it make to buy the iPad now before its unlocked/jailbroken. What would I gain? May not be so bad as I don't have to worry about 1600 errors or complainng about fictional untethered jailbrakes LOL

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    The three installs on games are reset if you uninstall the game properly and choose to de-register it from your machine during that time.

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    What you forget is that most people don't realize the restrictions apple impose before purchasing as the adds are all very lovy-dovey. It's only after and then too late as most have a contract that is not easy (if not almost impossible) or expensive to get out of.

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    ive read some pretty good arguments from both sides here. what i think [is] that there needs to be a happy medium between the two. i dont think it can fully go one way or the other. that said...im going to go eat a bigmac now at mcdonalds. []
    killall Terminal[]

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post
    The three installs on games are reset if you uninstall the game properly and choose to de-register it from your machine during that time.
    Doesn't matter, and not always true. Even if you have the same license key for Windows, transfer it from computer to computer over a few years, you STILL have to call in and ask for a new key. You've bought it, it should work forever. Even the part about not having it installed on more than one machine fails to work right. You're already treated as if you've stolen the game/software from the get go. Treating your customers like criminals isn't a way to treat anyone. Same with airlines. Treating every passenger like a potential murderer is wrong too. And every security measure they've enacted has failed to catch the people that it's supposed to. They search everyone that gets on a plane illegally, basic violation of your rights, and it doesn't work. Let passengers go right on through and keep an armed marshal or flight crew on board. Severely punish anyone who tries anything like kill someone or bring down the plane and your problems will be greatly reduced. Confiscating hand lotion and water bottles has failed, no fly lists have failed and in some cases you can't get your name off the list. That's the reason I don't fly anywhere, I don't like to be treated as a common criminal, and I don't (or at least I try not to) buy games that require a license key.

    I shouldn't have to do anything to make a product I bought work when I sit down to use it, or jump through hoops talking to idiots on the phone or by email later on in the future. It's ridiculous. Once it registered it should stay that way forever.

  16. #34
    Livin the iPhone Life Happy Noodle Boy's Avatar
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    Which game is it?

    Also, check DRM EULAs in general. Most if not all clearly state that should the service be terminate, all DRM is removed from titles. Steam is the number 1 about this. Should they ever go down, they have the ability to strip all your games from any and all DRM. And hell, 10 years from now I'll just purchase said game in a "collector's classic pack" for $5 online somewhere.

    I don't mind not really "owning" the title if it allows me to play it wherever, whenever, and however I want it just as if I'd own it.

    I'm not a slave to the system. I'm a slave to convenience and ease of use/life.

    ONE MORE THING (I SWEAR) - No one if forcing you to buy these DRMed games. The only way to show a company that what they're doing is wrong is by not buying their games/product and not showing interest in it but just because you don't agree/approve of their security methods doesn't give anyone the right to steal from them.

    Besides, I don't even see what the big argument is. Technology, software, and computers in general are moving into a more online-dependent cloud computing world where all your stuff is kept online. That's the best DRM you can have and the least intrusive. Same as MMO's like WoW. You can't pirate those because you need an account to play.

    Same way with Steam and anything else that really requires any form of online interaction, which nowadays... it's a lot.
    Last edited by Happy Noodle Boy; 02-09-2010 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  17. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy View Post
    Which game is it?

    Also, check DRM EULAs in general. Most if not all clearly state that should the service be terminate, all DRM is removed from titles. Steam is the number 1 about this. Should they ever go down, they have the ability to strip all your games from any and all DRM. And hell, 10 years from now I'll just purchase said game in a "collector's classic pack" for $5 online somewhere.

    I don't mind not really "owning" the title if it allows me to play it wherever, whenever, and however I want it just as if I'd own it.

    I'm not a slave to the system. I'm a slave to convenience and ease of use/life.
    Starcraft gave me this problem, and it wasn't uncommon for people to have their keys stolen and getting an error when trying to play online. It got fixed, but I was still treated like I stole it. I think Zune music was the same way, I may be wrong though. And you are a slave to the system, you'd pay twice for the same product. You may be okay with paying even a small fee for the same thing twice, but I'm not. Same with movies, they pay lip service saying it's legal to make a copy but prevent you from doing so. In ten years if DVDs go the way of the Dodo I can't have a backup copy to watch any old classics possibly. If it get scratched when I loan it to someone, or by an accident I have to buy another copy. And I have about 30 movies backed up for that reason. Some got scratched and some got lost in my travels around the world. I don't like carrying 30 movies with me when I travel, but having a copy on my harddrive allows me to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy View Post
    ONE MORE THING (I SWEAR) - No one if forcing you to buy these DRMed games. The only way to show a company that what they're doing is wrong is by not buying their games/product and not showing interest in it but just because you don't agree/approve of their security methods doesn't give anyone the right to steal from them.

    Besides, I don't even see what the big argument is. Technology, software, and computers in general are moving into a more online-dependent cloud computing world where all your stuff is kept online. That's the best DRM you can have and the least intrusive. Same as MMO's like WoW. You can't pirate those because you need an account to play.

    Same way with Steam and anything else that really requires any form of online interaction, which nowadays... it's a lot.
    Tell that to all those Sidekick users that lost all their data. What happens when those server farms burn to the ground?

    What about getting on an airplane? You can't always avoid that. That's an illegal search and proven time and again to be a failure of massive proportions. The TSA is famous for stealing things out of luggage that is required by law to have a lock on it they can open. How would you feel if you were required to check luggage and it all got stolen? It's damn near impossible to hold someone accountable for it too. Sitting back and letting people trample on you is no defense. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.


    And I agree there's no place for theft in this argument. I don't think anyone is advocating stealing anything, just that thieves have been proven to benefit from this kind of action. And cloud computing is a wonderful way to get very personal information stolen and your life ruined. I'd rather have a cash transaction, no information exchanged, and be done with it. No one needs any info from me other than how I pay for something. Marketing companies love this system because they can track what you do and tailor annoying ads for your interest, or what they think it can be. Depending on some faceless entity to keep your billing and address information a secret and secure is foolish.
    Last edited by KartRacer; 02-09-2010 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  18. #36
    iPhone? More like MyPhone giancarlo's Avatar
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    This is all in tune to stop piracy....it's the same as when you buy an operating system for a computer. Microsoft is doing it too and its really to protect their investment. You paid for it, but you didn't pay for the server, personel and man hours needed to keep it going with updates and such. I never used cracked IPA's because the developer spent time and money to make that, so why should we all have it for free? Let's take ourselves out of the "consumer shoes" and view it from the "developer views." Would you like to see your $5.99 app that cost thousands of dollars to make be passed around for free? They can't control people copying and selling DVD's, copying and selling CD's and also pirating software for comps.....so might as well stop us where they can. It's all business people, and its there to make money, not friends. Follow your Nexus One, HTC Hero and Droid phones...soon enough they will have a leash attached......just not enough users on it now to make the investment. Just my .02 on the matter
    Last edited by giancarlo; 02-09-2010 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    iPhone? More like MyPhone giancarlo's Avatar
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    yea it does....but it stops a few....instead of letting it all go to hell

    oh and Kart Racer...it's not illegal to make backup copies of movies/cd's that you own. It's illegal to sell the copies for profit.
    Last edited by giancarlo; 02-09-2010 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melech518 View Post
    I loled. The petition for a "Don't Like" Button on Facebook has over 2,076,090 signatures
    I feel so ashamed that the majority of my friends join these groups and sign these petitions. It's pretty darn obvious that Facebook is trying to remain a positive site, and didn't include the button for obvious reasons.

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    lol i thought this forum was about the ipad. guess not.

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    Have these guys heard of jailbreaking? And yeah DRM is a load of BS...Stupid movies!
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