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Originally Posted by GUNNY29 My character is fine thank you. Who's coming with the personal attacks now. I buy a lot of music but also pirate a lot. I pay
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  1. #1781
    ----NewD 2.0---- NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNY29 View Post
    My character is fine thank you. Who's coming with the personal attacks now.

    I buy a lot of music but also pirate a lot.

    I pay for everything jb related cause devs themers modders don't sit and brag about how much $ they got. It's needed.

    If they want to try and fool me into thinking they are hard up they should prob give up throwing it in our faces.

    I'm by no means jealous, good luck to them. Just don't treat me like a fool and expect me to respect them enough to give them more of it.
    So following that 'logic' I'm gonna guess that you're discriminating with your stealing. Those artists who "don't brag" you don't steal from, and those that "do brag" you steal from. Right? Or are you an "equal opportunity" thief, Gunny?

    As to "personal attacking". I don't do it. I only ever speak about "actions and behaviors" of people. Not "them AS" people. People do many things out of ignorance - which doesn't make them bad people - but their actions can be addressed and judged for what they are.

    I'll admit using the word "character" speaks to a person as "they are". I will withdraw that statement Gunny.. It is likely over the line. Edited my other post.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 11-13-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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  3. #1782
    Mudder GUNNY29's Avatar
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    Asking a question I've already answered lol

    You called me a thief because of the facts you have gathered from my posts I won't deny it I know it's stealing but not the same as if I walked into my local shop filled my pockets and walked out without paying, which I wouldn't do. I can live with that label with no guilty conscience at all.

    Yet when I've called you ignorant, misinformed etc etc in past conversations due to the facts I gathered from your posts you call it a personal attack. Double standards?
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    Tag I'm in Gunny?

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    Mudder GUNNY29's Avatar
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    You got it krima gone midnight here I'm off to bed. Good night
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  6. #1785
    King Kong ain't got nothing on me! King_O_Hill's Avatar
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    I'll be honest. How can you really consider obtaining music stealing. I may be older, but don't they play all that stuff for free on the radio?

    So I can record all I want from the airwaves, but if I download it, then I'm stealing?!?!

    That's just whacked!
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    I apologize for this being off topic, but this cross-word clue is driving me nuts. The clue is "exaggerated dignity; pretentious" the word is. _om_ _ _ s

    Anyone have a clue what it could be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNY29 View Post
    Asking a question I've already answered lol

    You called me a thief because of the facts you have gathered from my posts I won't deny it I know it's stealing but not the same as if I walked into my local shop filled my pockets and walked out without paying, which I wouldn't do. I can live with that label with no guilty conscience at all.

    Yet when I've called you ignorant, misinformed etc etc in past conversations due to the facts I gathered from your posts you call it a personal attack. Double standards?
    No. Here's why. Calling someone a thief CAN be determined from a person's own statements about their personal actions. Calling someone "ignorant" brings in a burden of proof element where you must prove the person wrong with a preponderance of facts. Though I don't remember the specific series of posts that you're referring to in the past where you're sure you proved me wrong and I didn't admit it, still the distinction I'm making remains.

    So, no, it's not a double standard. They're two entirely different situations one requiring a burden of proof and the other simply discernible by reading someone's account of their regular actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krima View Post
    Tag I'm in Gunny?
    O no.. Not Krima..
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  9. #1788
    Mudder GUNNY29's Avatar
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    Me calling you ignorant,misinformed was discernible by my reading of your posts so yeah I was spot on.
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  11. #1789
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_O_Hill View Post
    I'll be honest. How can you really consider obtaining music stealing. I may be older, but don't they play all that stuff for free on the radio?

    So I can record all I want from the airwaves, but if I download it, then I'm stealing?!?!

    That's just whacked!
    If you can't see the difference, bro.. Well.. I just can't help you. .. But I think you DO see the difference and just want to stir the pot..

    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNY29 View Post
    Me calling you ignorant,misinformed was discernible by my reading of your posts so yeah I was spot on.
    And yet you still produce no proof - leaving the question of which one of us is ignorant - still unaddressed. . In the end - stealing is still stealing. And I won't drop the word.

    Any moment now Simon will swoop in and clip all these posts and put them in The Great Debate thread. One I no longer read.. So take your shots now!
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 11-13-2013 at 05:37 PM.
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    Mudder GUNNY29's Avatar
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    Now from your posts I can safely say once again your ignorant and pretentious.

    Your proof of me being a thief is me stating it.

    My proof of you being ignorant is in pretty much all of your posts. Whether you see it or not
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  13. #1791
    King Kong ain't got nothing on me! King_O_Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    If you can't see the difference, bro.. Well.. I just can't help you. .. But I think you DO see the difference and just want to stir the pot..

    And yet you still produce no proof - leaving the question of which one of us is ignorant - still unaddressed. . In the end - stealing is still stealing. And I won't drop the word.
    This is not stirring the pot bro. Lets face it, music is put out there for free. The only difference in recording it over downloading it is the time that it takes.

    You make a marginal point, but when it's legally available for free, why should it be illegal to download. The music industry just hasn't progressed like the film industry etc.
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  14. #1792
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    I didn't say it wasn't. I've stated many times now I Dl music I also said how there is different levels of stealing (remember I said I wouldn't walk into local shop) never asked you to drop the word. I couldn't give two f***** what you think of me. Just open your closed mind a little we are in a new era get with the times. (That's not me saying you should steal because its what people do these days) just regonize things have changed.
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    The forum needs some education on this topic.

    1)If you own a CD or an iTunes legally purchased copy - you have a right to make a personal CD copy for your car.
    2) You are NOT permitted to make a copy for someone else. That's stealing -- THIS is where the pirated music services violate the laws and why Napster was shut down for almost a year until they started charging dues.

    Radio stations pays the rights to the artists in the form of publishing rights via ASCAP, BMI and SESAC.. The broadcast of music in the air is something you pay for only indirectly - when you buy advertisers products. So you 'do pay for that music too'. Same for TV and film. YOu are also permitted by law to make a DVR recording for your own personal watching at a later date. It is however against the law to copy that hard drive and give or sell it to someone else.

    Most people are just ignorant of the laws and that's why they see inconsistencies. There really is no inconsistency between the music industry and film industry, King. Using illegal copies of either is 'stealing'. The radio waves are not really comparable - because they are 'given' for free except for the advertising costs which pass on to every listener indirectly in that you're subject to listening to the commercials... Trying to draw precedent from radio waves transmitting is a real stretch - but I applaud the effort. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNY29 View Post
    I didn't say it wasn't. I've stated many times now I Dl music I also said how there is different levels of stealing (remember I said I wouldn't walk into local shop) never asked you to drop the word. I couldn't give two f***** what you think of me. Just open your closed mind a little we are in a new era get with the times. (That's not me saying you should steal because its what people do these days) just recogonize things have changed.
    Times don't change what's right and wrong, Gunny. Except in a morally relativistic world view. But Moral relativism makes 'stealing' and then even 'physically hurting' people okay depending on your point of view. Where are the lines, Gunny? I will NEVER open my mind to what's universally wrong. I know, I know - you don't believe in anything being universally wrong. But it gets tricky - moving the goal post of morality.. One day people will make an argument that Hitler was justified. It's a very slippery slope once we're on this topic...

    But BOY are we far from the topic.... I think my point of view is clear. It won't change - because it would compromise my character to change on issues of morality and ethics. It's where we get our code of laws from too. And legal precedent on stealing music was already set in the late 90's as 10 families (if memory serves) of kids using Napster were sued and taken to court and lost - and had to pay $50,000 fines each for the stealing they were doing. The FCC federally prosecuted those families and all appeals failed. Now we all know that it's sadly an enforceable law on a global scale. That's why more of the thiefs aren't prosecuted..

    But let me ALSO SAY..... Gunny, you're a good person... King you too, Krima -- all you who steal music and feel okay about it..... You wouldn't rob a convenience store...

    But - I think it would make an interesting college ethics debate topic - for the two sides to deal with the pro/con positions of whether there's an 'ethical' difference in 'who gets hurt' between the store owner who loses $ and the musical artist that loses $. Both scenarios are stealing and both stealing actions hurt people's ability to make a living. That's why I speak up. It would be an interesting debate.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 11-13-2013 at 06:41 PM.
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    I support mostly indie bands. I buy their music. Mostly from local gigs. Handing them the cash for their CD is a lot more satisfying than walking into an HMV
    Not to mention the cover/ticket charge that pays them as well.


    @Ian
    You may want to look at The National
    Especially an album called Boxer by them. Great music and will get you away from country lol
    Seriously though great band

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  19. #1795
    My iPhone is a Part of Me Azjonnyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    No, I'm not a regular stealer of other people's things. The only time I've ever been drawn in to 'crossing' the line is 'demo-ing' something before I buy it. Many companies don't offer demo periods -- and the reason they don't is PRECISELY BECAUSE of the potentials for cracking of their software. So I've occasionally given in to using a cracked version as an evaluation period. But within 30 days I always erase things and then buy them if I want them. As to 'the Napster generation' -- it's all an 'I deserve this because I want it' mentality. It's just immaturity. When you get into the real world you learn a different story. You can't just 'take' what you want - because it's available. I call 'thieves' thieves - because that's what they are. And we don't use precise language anymore in this moral relativistic culture brought in by the Millennial and Internet generations.

    You're probably a great guy, Azjonnyg. But on this topic I just can't give you an 'inch' because you'll (and others that think the way you do) take that mile and try to find ways of justifying it to yourself... greedy record companies, blah, blah, blah.. It's all just nonsense to try and make you feel less guilty about the stealing. There's a 'Robin Hood' mentality in the younger generations too. I feel the same way about unlocking in-contract phones - but that's been debated to death in other threads... Won't go there here..

    Bottom line. Downloading pirated music is stealing. There's just no argument that can make it be something else. It is, IN FACT, 'stealing'. Now you can justify it all you want and we can agree or agree to disagree on your 'justification'. But don't CHANGE the terminology to make yourself feel better. Don't say it's not stealing - when it clearly is. Go ahead and say... "MY STEALING IS JUSTIFIED by x, y, x...."... But don't call it something it's not. That's all I'm asking. Well - I'm also asking you NOT to do it.. Go out - get off your butt playing games on your computer all day -- get an extra job - and download from iTunes and other reputable sources that pay the artists for their creation. It's NOT hard.
    First don't assume I sit on my *** all day when that is how engineers make a living, how are the hemmeroids treating ya? I found the first part of your comment to be well informed although a bit asinine, but please don't for a second think you have any idea what I do for a living. Second, and most importantly, there is the argument that art is made o be seen/heard. Many new artists turn to the Internet as a first source of promotion and to leak their own material. Maybe you skimmed my reply, I only wish I had done so with yours, but I clearly stated that I purchase music off iTunes, download mix tapes and I have pirated music before. Don't get all huffy puffy because you're career path is the most labor intensive and least rewarding in the industry, and please keep the insults rattling around in your own small mind. Ya big cry baby. Moving on....

    Also lol at comparing the holocaust to pirating music, are you dense?!?

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    Like on a whole different level.

    Grant you really have no idea And this isn't about any facts or proof or crap. It's all about how you talk to people. You are the biggest troll this site has ever seen

    I don't mean this to start anything or get a rise. It's just the FACT that you tie into it with multiple people, multiple times a month. Not saying you don't attempt to help people. Cause I have seen you really lend a hand.

    And I reckon what really irritates everyone, is that deep
    Down we all know you are a good dude. With great intentions.

    Lol. I actually find it amusing as most do now after hanging with you in the threads. Good luck in whatever great debate it is you carry yourself in my friend.

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    Hemp,
    "Sometimes" I've been known to get into it about things 'that don't' matter in the grand scheme'... I'll grant you that... and it can piss people off and I get that too. But other times I get into it -- because people are supporting ideas that are just bad for 'all members' and represent the forum very badly. For those situations I'm willing to take my 'lumps' for speaking up - and the PM's & emails I get from a silent 'many' applaud my courage in those interchanges. NOT ALL the time... But on certain topics -- I know that I'm not alone in how I feel -- I'm just the only one willing to 'speak into the crap'.

    I could never be a real 'troll' as they are 'only interested' in stirring up trouble wherever they go. Like the couple of Android loving trolls that always cause trouble in the NEWS threads. They are 'true' trolls. I've been told I've come 'a long way' from where I started on MMI almost two years ago now.. I think I help more than I hurt. So I would just ask you to cut me a little slack when I'm speaking against 'indefensible things' ethically. As I've told many before.. If it really, really bothers you -- please just exercise your right to 'ignore' me with the 'ignore' button. My views on the ethics of piracy, of any kind - tweaks or music -- will never change nor will my views on other ethically questionable practices I see 'freely talked about' here.

    But overall this is a great and creative place. Way more good than bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Durben View Post
    Sk3tch thanks for the post dude and the icon psd's
    I've not shared them yet....was trying to encourage some screens of your purchased work first. Cheers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Nicoll View Post
    Ah, ok, thanks King, I think I know where he is coming from after reading all the "huge long post" from Grant.. er I mean "sk37cH"
    How did I manage to deserve that?? Just joking

    Quote Originally Posted by Heine View Post
    well you can blame each other, i pay the creator most of all because i know the time they spend to get all the bitchy people happy, the people that cant create anything on their own, but always demand new stuff, better stuff, personal stuff, and so on, i dont have much money on my own these days, but i always support the creator's

    respect

    Quote Originally Posted by TeddyDiesel View Post
    I have always loved your work, Durben, and I always try my best to donate when I can. I bought this the day it hit Cydia, so I hope that helps you.

    As someone who is kinda new to the whole JB experience, I can only imagine how ticked off you all can get when all the time and work you spend on something, gets pirated. Just want to say thank you again for all the hard work you all do. Have a great day!

    Attachment 649501
    I think that's close enough Cheers for the support to your Devs guys!!

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    My iPhone is a Part of Me Azjonnyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hemptation View Post
    Like on a whole different level.

    Grant you really have no idea And this isn't about any facts or proof or crap. It's all about how you talk to people. You are the biggest troll this site has ever seen

    I don't mean this to start anything or get a rise. It's just the FACT that you tie into it with multiple people, multiple times a month. Not saying you don't attempt to help people. Cause I have seen you really lend a hand.

    And I reckon what really irritates everyone, is that deep
    Down we all know you are a good dude. With great intentions.

    Lol. I actually find it amusing as most do now after hanging with you in the threads. Good luck in whatever great debate it is you carry yourself in my friend.

    This post was made without Harming any animals, and was brought to you by the number 6. Thank you and have a great evening
    THIS! I agree whole heartedly that people get frustrated because we know you are good natured and strive to help n00bs and to help devs, I do not every say "man this guy truly is a jerk" I usually chuckle, roll my eyes and continue on without getting sucked in. I just don't think every thread should degenerate in to a NewD vs. thread. However the threads which do have a little bit of controversy are usually the most active on MMI. maybe not a troll but a sort of gnome, a good intentioned troll?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azjonnyg View Post
    THIS! I agree whole heartedly that people get frustrated because we know you are good natured and strive to help n00bs and to help devs, I do not every say "man this guy truly is a jerk" I usually chuckle, roll my eyes and continue on without getting sucked in. I just don't think every thread should degenerate in to a NewD vs. thread. However the threads which do have a little bit of controversy are usually the most active on MMI. maybe not a troll but a sort of gnome, a good intentioned troll?
    Well I suppose that's a positive spin on it. Thanks for trying to see the positive. Let's just move on.
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

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