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Originally Posted by Just Dummy Why not campaign for legalizing cocaine and others as well? You people kill me with your pro drug bs. So you would let your teenage
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Dummy View Post
    Why not campaign for legalizing cocaine and others as well? You people kill me with your pro drug bs. So you would let your teenage child lay around and get wasted because it is harmless? Go suck on a barrel.
    I hear marijuana can help with anger management. May want to look into that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Nope, the brain cell thing. And google is YOUR friend Grant.
    Let me google that for you

    Click that link and tell me how many of those links are on your side of this. Can't blame you really, you are from the generation that perpetuated the negative stigma about marijuana, so much so that people like you just take what was said about it as fact without really looking in to the studies about it and how they were done. Read a few of those links that come up and you may start to see the truth. I did.
    There's such a misinformation campaign on the druggies side of this debate - so much junk science that it becomes and endless cycle of people who 'want it legalized' believing whatever they read. Just look at the financial backing of several of the sites that claim 'no damage' in that Google list you linked - it will tell you the all you need to know about whether to believe said article or not.

    That's why I said 'Google Scholar'.. which is a gateway to only medical and scientific studies from institutions - and though those studies can also be 'back by someone's money' - there are few 'companies' with an 'interest' enough in this topic to 'buy' specific outcomes to a given study. Sadly - even the scientific community can be bought.. When you start to read some of the medical study conclusions from places like Stanford (I think was the most recent I read) and other places - trust me -- this is NO 'generational' concern. The 'pro-pot-head' group is very powerful and motivated to suppress the study data. But keep studying, my friend. You have to 'want to ignore' the data to actually have it not give you cause for concern - especially as a parent. I'll find you the study links when I get home from work...
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    Weak people with even weaker minds. If you can't live your life without a crutch like that then why bother? The only relief you feel is your brain dissolving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blkcadi View Post
    Facts are facts.
    Except when they're not..
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    There's such a misinformation campaign on the druggies side of this debate - so much junk science that it becomes and endless cycle of people who 'want it legalized' believing whatever they read. Just look at the financial backing of several of the sites that claim 'no damage' in that Google list you linked - it will tell you the all you need to know about whether to believe said article or not.

    That's why I said 'Google Scholar'.. which is a gateway to only medical and scientific studies from institutions - and though those studies can also be 'back by someone's money' - there are few 'companies' with an 'interest' enough in this topic to 'buy' specific outcomes to a given study. Sadly - even the scientific community can be bought.. When you start to read some of the medical study conclusions from places like Stanford (I think was the most recent I read) and other places - trust me -- this is NO 'generational' concern. The 'pro-pot-head' group is very powerful and motivated to suppress the study data. But keep studying, my friend. You have to 'want to ignore' the data to actually have it not give you cause for concern - especially as a parent. I'll find you the study links when I get home from work...
    Every single word of this I can say right back to you about your views and beliefs on the matter. Do you not see that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Dummy View Post
    Weak people with even weaker minds. If you can't live your life without a crutch like that then why bother? The only relief you feel is your brain dissolving.
    This is a debate thread, not a thread to continually put others down while adding absolutely nothing to the conversation. If that is too difficult for you to adhere to then I suggest you go elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I hear marijuana can help with anger management. May want to look into that.


    Let the voters decide. Over 50% of the American public believe MJ legalization has it's benefits.

    Booze, kills and destroys more brain cells and families than any other drug. If there were a gateway drug, booze would be the one IMHO.

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    The last study that I saw reported that cigarettes was the leading gateway drug. Why are they not illegal? Alcohol is far more dangerous and destructive, why is it not illegal? Lets put this stuff in perspective and get rid of the real problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Except when they're not..
    Again, we all make the choice. I choose to inform, not belittle ones opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Dummy View Post
    Weak people with even weaker minds. If you can't live your life without a crutch like that then why bother? The only relief you feel is your brain dissolving.
    Reality is for people who can't handle drugs
    Last edited by Enigma5; 04-23-2014 at 11:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Except when they're not..
    Facts for either side of this could very easily be fabricated or misinterpreted. I guess end of the day it all comes down to how you yourself feel about it.
    So here is my personal view on it.

    Do I think it is as bad as everyone thinks it is/was? No. I could make a case for alcohol having worse short term and long term effects on a person and that is a legal drug.

    Do I think MJ is a miracle heal all drug with no cons? No. The potential for abuse is there of course. I would not want an employee showing up for work high any more than I would if they were drunk. I wouldn't want my kids smoking it anymore than I would want them to not smoke cigarettes. That's my personal belief as a parent. That doesn't mean I think it should be illegal though and people not have that choice.

    Do I think it should be made fully legal? On the fence with this one, I'm not a user myself and have only tried it a few times to help with my IBS, it did help but didn't like the feeling I got when I had serious attacks so I stopped. This was about a two week span. So not for me but doesn't mean I don't see positive aspects to it, especially in the medical field. Not blind to the fact that it can have negative effects though either, just not all the ones we have been led to believe growing up.

    Do I think it should be made legal for medical uses? Most definitely. I know you guys have many states where it is already but not all. Here it is not. I don't think anyone would deny that it can have many medical uses, the way I would have needed it to really help with my IBS is pill form but I didn't have that option. No good reason why things like morphine (heroine) are legal for medical use but marijuana isn't in a lot of places still.

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    Prostitution is legal in 2 counties of Nevada so why not legalize that as well as gambling countrywide?

    How convenient would that be? Your daughter can then turn 18 catch a buzz turn a trick and go to the casino then come home.
    Last edited by Just Dummy; 04-23-2014 at 09:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Facts for either side of this could very easily be fabricated or misinterpreted. I guess end of the day it all comes down to how you yourself feel about it.
    So here is my personal view on it.

    Do I think it is as bad as everyone thinks it is/was? No. I could make a case for alcohol having worse short term and long term effects on a person and that is a legal drug.

    Do I think MJ is a miracle heal all drug with no cons? No. The potential for abuse is there of course. I would not want an employee showing up for work high any more than I would if they were drunk. I wouldn't want my kids smoking it anymore than I would want them to not smoke cigarettes. That's my personal belief as a parent. That doesn't mean I think it should be illegal though and people not have that choice.

    Do I think it should be made fully legal? On the fence with this one, I'm not a user myself and have only tried it a few times to help with my IBS, it did help but didn't like the feeling I got when I had serious attacks so I stopped. This was about a two week span. So not for me but doesn't mean I don't see positive aspects to it, especially in the medical field. Not blind to the fact that it can have negative effects though either, just not all the ones we have been led to believe growing up.

    Do I think it should be made legal for medical uses? Most definitely. I know you guys have many states where it is already but not all. Here it is not. I don't think anyone would deny that it can have many medical uses, the way I would have needed it to really help with my IBS is pill form but I didn't have that option. No good reason why things like morphine (heroine) are legal for medical use but marijuana isn't in a lot of places still.
    Actually, Simon, you and I aren't too far apart on our position on this topic. You pretty much stated my views there. But what I don't want to get lost in the discussion of this topic are the "facts". Facts and beliefs and opinions are very different things. What gets lost in this debate most times are the scientific and medical facts. It is "fact" that the brain of a person who's used marijuana daily for several years looks very different than a person who has not. Those are the facts however inconvenient they may are to our "beliefs" about what should be done with regard to its legalization.

    Think governments considering legalizing it are also concerned about the type of riffraff that it puts on our streets hurting our kids. Not to mention how so often potheads are "low producers" in society.

    Quote Originally Posted by blkcadi View Post
    Again, we all make the choice. I choose to inform, not belittle ones opinion.
    As you know I don't belittle people for their opinions… I welcome them. Maybe you were talking about "Dummy". But my concern, Bo, was what you purported to be "facts" that you would then use to "inform".. Your facts are not accurate her my personal study of the medical research.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 04-23-2014 at 09:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Actually, Simon, you and I aren't too far apart on our position on this topic. You pretty much stated my views there. But what I don't want to get lost in the discussion of this topic are the "facts". Facts and beliefs and opinions are very different things. What gets lost in this debate most times are the scientific and medical facts. It is "fact" that the brain of a person who's used marijuana daily for several years looks very different than a person who has not. Those are the facts however inconvenient they may are to our "beliefs" about what should be done with regard to its legalization.

    Think governments considering legalizing it are also concerned about the type of riffraff that it puts on our streets hurting our kids. Not to mention how so often potheads are "low producers" in society.
    I haven't seen any facts ever showing that though. If you can point me to some them by all means do so. If I think back to all my knowledge on the subject before last year it has always been people just saying that and it being taken as fact (which is what you are doing right now). On the other side of it I have seen numerous articles and stories in the past year stating the opposite, some from reputable sites such as webmd: Heavy Marijuana Use Doesn't Damage Brain

    Found this using google scholar like you suggested: http://journals.lww.com/neuroreport/...tissue.13.aspx

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Think governments considering legalizing it are also concerned about the type of riffraff that it puts on our streets hurting our kids. Not to mention how so often potheads are "low producers" in society.
    Really? Is this based on the portrayal of them in movies? I'd like to see the evidence that supports this. I'm sure that alcoholics don't fit this either?
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    Without alcohol there would be no jobs for law enforcement. It is the key ingredient for problems.

    Prescription drug abuse is far worst.
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    If it can be used straight from a natural source it should be legal. Any man made substances are free to be debated.

    That's my stance. To note I only smoke cigarettes and love it

    Also imo I don't buy all this gateway drug bs. Just a scare tactic to keep us doing what they want us to do
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    As you know I don't belittle people for their opinions… I welcome them. Maybe you were talking about "Dummy". But my concern, Bo, was what you purported to be "facts" that you would then use to "inform".. Your facts are not accurate her my personal study of the medical research.
    Well, then we agree to disagree. One can justify their beliefs. I speak from personal experiences and and what "I" choose to believe.

    I have an Uncle who is in his late 60's, has smoked pot since he was in Vietnam in 1966-67 (almost 50 years). He is of strong mind, runs a multimillion dollar company, has raised 5 healthy children. Is a religious man, highly regarded in the community and has never experienced any issues from smoking (other then legal). No brain damage, not a "druggie", doesn't use any other drugs in fact.

    I think we could all find studies/research on the pros and cons of pot that would support our beliefs.

    I choose to be open minded about things. I know what has worked for me. I see people in my circle of life that support what I believe. I don't beat you or anyone up for their opinion on it.

    To just flat out say that it is unproven to have it's positive social, medical and economic benefits is a bit naive IMHO. There again, my opinion.

    I stand by your choice to believe what works for you. I in no way force my opinion and don't want anyone to force feed me theirs.

    I love this debate as it is something that I firmly believe in. As ever was, shall ever be...

    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post

    Think governments considering legalizing it are also concerned about the type of riffraff that it puts on our streets hurting our kids. Not to mention how so often potheads are "low producers" in society.
    Wow, just flippin' wow.

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    Fair argument, Simon... And I will admit that research is learning more and more on the topic as time goes on and most of my personal research was done a few weeks back when I was challenging my son on a paper he was writing for school "supporting" legalization. At that point in 2009 I was sufficiently convinced by the research out of Stanford and other medical research institutions, to conclude that were actual health risks involved with the use of MJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by blkcadi View Post
    Well, then we agree to disagree. One can justify their beliefs. I speak from personal experiences and and what "I" choose to believe.

    I have an Uncle who is in his late 60's, has smoked pot since he was in Vietnam in 1966-67 (almost 50 years). He is of strong mind, runs a multimillion dollar company, has raised 5 healthy children. Is a religious man, highly regarded in the community and has never experienced any issues from smoking (other then legal). No brain damage, not a "druggie", doesn't use any other drugs in fact.

    I think we could all find studies/research on the pros and cons of pot that would support our beliefs.

    I choose to be open minded about things. I know what has worked for me. I see people in my circle of life that support what I believe. I don't beat you or anyone up for their opinion on it.

    To just flat out say that it is unproven to have it's positive social, medical and economic benefits is a bit naive IMHO. There again, my opinion.

    I stand by your choice to believe what works for you. I in no way force my opinion and don't want anyone to force feed me theirs.
    I hear you, Bo. And I'm not forcing an opinion on anyone. I'm just interested in the facts being dealt with here and not beliefs. Beliefs are beliefs. Facts are facts. Let's please never mix the two.

    And with due respect to your uncle, surely you're not saying that because he's made it through unscathed (as you believe to be so) that that proves there are no deleterious effect on brain cells with prolonged MJ use. Many people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day for 50 years never get lung cancer or emphysema and their lungs show up clear. Just like my mom. There are many people that drink close to a fifth of whiskey every 10 days for 50 years and don't have even the slightest indication of cirrhosis of the liver. Just like my dad. Does that mean we should make cigarette smoking have no warning labels or stop telling people about the concerns of alcohol abuse because anecdotally a few people get through unscathed? Of course not. That would be silly and naïve. Is it also good to form your own "belief" out of these "exceptions to the rule"? Just asking questions…

    Just because there are 'exceptions to the rule ' doesn't mean that a society shouldn't be interested in enacting laws that protect the majority of their citizens.

    That's the central issue in this debate as I see it. My "personal beliefs" are actually very much along what Simon shared about his own - several posts back. But I want my government to make laws that attempt to protect the majority of the people - based on the best facts and research that they collect when considering the law.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 04-23-2014 at 11:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    But I want my government to make laws that attempt to protect the majority of the people - based on the best facts and research that they collect when considering the law.
    If this were the case, then alcohol and cigarettes would be illegal.

    Funny thing, I heard governed Christy (NJ) just state that as long as he is governor, MJ will never be legal in his state. Isn't he supposed to speak for the voters? Do what the people want? This is the problem with leaders today. They have their own agendas and forget that they are representing the people that voted them in.

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    So anything that hurts people and helps a minority should be banned.?

    Guns.

    And I'm outta here lol
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