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Originally Posted by NewdestinyX HEY!! I promised myself I'd never come back to this thread.. I'm out..... YouTube Video
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  1. #721
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    HEY!! I promised myself I'd never come back to this thread.. I'm out.....

    YouTube Video

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  3. #722
    ----NewD 2.0---- NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    C'mon, Simon.. You need "proof" that unlocking steals away AT&T's ability to collect roaming charges overseas? You're kidding right?
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

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  5. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    C'mon, Simon.. You need "proof" that unlocking steals away AT&T's ability to collect roaming charges overseas? You're kidding right?
    Oh I'm sorry, did you think this was debate class? Just get handed a topic and a argument and not have to worry about actually proving it? Just debate to the best of your ability?

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  7. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Brian,
    How does locking the phone assure subsidy payback? You're are contractually obligated to pay the subsidy back by the "auto signing" of the new contract period when you buy it for the subsid.. price. How do you figure locking guarantees payback? People unlock all the time (unethically) and still have to pay back their contract or be sued by carrier. That's actually one of Simons main points to me. Not following you there, bro.
    Locking prevents you from activating on another carrier. Guarantees, welcome to life, there aren't any. Nothing can ever guarantees that you pay the money that you agreed to in a contract. But the idea behind locking is not meant to prevent overseas roaming, it's to make sure that you just don't switch to another carrier, period. If you don't see the advantage to that, then I guess we're done here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    C'mon, Simon.. You need "proof" that unlocking steals away AT&T's ability to collect roaming charges overseas? You're kidding right?
    AT&T will cancel your contract if you spend I believe more then 40% of your phone time collectively for 3 months on roaming. AT&T doesn't make a huge deal of money off of roaming charges. You should know that. They have to pay other carriers with the same frequency that is why roaming rates are so high. Your contract can also be canceled if your 3 way calling for more then 40% of your phone time because you can be looping around At&t service.
    ^^^^^
    That is in the AT&T contract when you sign for your two year commitment to pay your bill and get the phone subsidies
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    I have an unlocked i5. Was AT&T now using it on Rogers
    Am I unethical? lmao nope.

    And to what point is this nonsense really?
    You think AT&T or any other carrier can combat this? Not going to happen.
    The phone is paid for contactually. What the end user does with it outside of the contract is their own business.
    Governments are even passing/proposing laws so that carriers cannot lock phones. This is unethical on carriers part.

    What a bunch of stupid sht anyway. Bringing ethics into unlocking aligns you with the same idiots that say jail breaking is unethical because the only reason people jailbreak is to get free apps.

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    Gotta love the Great Debate thread. Grant, I thought you weren't coming back here?

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    What? Huh?

    You can get free apps! WTF!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    .... Clowns to the left of me.. Jokers to the right ... HERE I AM-- Stuck in the middle with you! !!...,


    ... (Song trails out) ...
    Backed in a corner backed in a corner trying to change subject because he is being cornerrrrreeeeeedddddd!

    But what does the fox say.....

    ---everyone raves---
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  21. #731
    ----NewD 2.0---- NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
    Backed in a corner backed in a corner trying to change subject because he is being cornerrrrreeeeeedddddd!

    But what does the fox say.....

    ---everyone raves---
    Anyone who can't see the difference between a warrantee breaking act(affects self only as in a jailbreak).. and the reselling of unethically acquired assets from a company (unlock)- well... I don't even know what to call it... It's pretty unfathomable.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 10-25-2013 at 07:21 PM.
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  23. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Anyone who can't see the difference between a warrantee breaking act(affects self only as in a jailbreak).. and the reselling of unethically acquired assets from a company (unlock)- well... I don't even know what to call it... It's pretty unfathomable.
    How ever you want to justify it to fit into your morals then ok. I am sure you never did a warranty exchange on any of those devices after jailbreaking it....

    You have a bunch of people telling you your wrong! But you can't be open minded enough to see that. You have formed your opinion and you stated multiple times you aren't going to change that. (Childish)

    Also have you truly looked over AT&Ts terms and condition? If so you know jailbreaking is also against AT&T policy. And your contract can be terminated for that. But your saying voiding Apples T&C's and AT&T's T&C's is ok? But not unlocking? Maybe you should go back and take a closer look on what your spitting off as ethical and not ethical.

    I quit Att back in April been with them for 4 years hated every minute of it. But I know that company inside and out along with the rules and regulations. So when I speak I can back up what I am saying. You can't back up anything.

    I sent a pm to you hours ago you can post on the public forum multiple times but not to my pm? Was my questions something you couldn't google so you couldn't form your own opinion on what to say? Give me a break.... You make little to no sense. Your constantly backing up trying to correct your screw ups you made early on.

    Have a pleasant night give you some time to think before you respond.
    Last edited by Cowboy; 10-25-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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  25. #733
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Preach brother man, preach

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  27. #734
    ----NewD 2.0---- NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    It's clear I hit a nerve with you, Cowboy. Interesting.

    And - I am always well studied on every topic I comment on, Cowboy. Be assured of that.

    You can justify your business to yourself any way you want, bro.. People do it all the time. But in the end it's making a profit from something that was sold to you that the person had no right to sell to you in the first place. Even Simon gets that.

    My analogy of the "pawn shop" in my PM to you should have made you get it. But you just dismissed it - with no explanation as to "why" it's a bad analogy in your opinion.

    Tell me:
    1)How are the AT&T employees or GSX service providers not the guys who sell something stolen to the pawn shop owner?
    2) How are you not the Pawn Shop owner who doesn't care where it came from?
    3)How is the buyer of the unlock not the purchaser of the stolen goods?

    Put that in your ethical computer and make your case, bro. Just cause you start calling me names doesn't make your point any more true.

    Tell me how the product you resell isn't akin to a "stolen good" by your wholesaler? I'm all ears.

    -----
    But the truth is / things are starting to get into "personal" space now.. And I come to the forums for stress relief.. not stress increase. That's why I said I would no longer come to this thread a while ago.. But mods keeping moving my comments here. (Simon.. )

    Cowboy - nothing I say will change your mind. You're making good $.. How could I possibly change your mind. And it's clear you service your clients well. I'm all for capitalism too.

    Peace, bro.. I was just trying to expand your thinking. But it's too "personal" a topic.. I get it - Truly no offense intended.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 10-26-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    It's clear I hit a nerve with you, Cowboy. Interesting.

    And - I am always well studied on every topic I comment on Cowboy. Be assured of that.

    You can justify your business to yourself any way you want, bro.. People do it all the time. But in the end it's making a profit from something that was sold to you that the person had no right to sell to you in the first place. Even Simon gets that.

    My analogy of the "pawn shop" in my PM to you should have made you get it. But you just dismissed it - with no explanation as to "why" it's a bad analogy in your opinion.

    Tell me:
    1)How are the AT&T employees or GSX service providers not the guys who sell something stolen to the pawn shop owner?
    2) How are you not the Pawn Shop owner who doesn't care where it came from?
    3)How is the buyer of the unlock not the purchaser of the stolen goods?

    Put that in your ethical computer and make your case, bro. Just cause you start calling me names doesn't make your point any more true.

    Tell me how the product you resell isn't akin to a "stolen good" by your wholesaler? I'm all ears.

    -----
    But the truth is / things are starting to get into "personal" space now.. And I come to the forums for stress relief.. not stress increase. That's why I said I would no longer come to this thread a while ago.. But mods keeping moving my comments here. (Simon.. )

    Cowboy - nothing I say will change your mind. You're making good $.. How could I possibly change your mind. You service your clients well.

    Peace, bro.. I was just trying to expand your thinking. But it's too "personal" a topic.. No offense intended
    I am still waiting for you to answer the questions I asked. Let me restate it so you don't miss it.
    Have you truly looked over AT&Ts terms and condition? If so you know jailbreaking is also against AT&T policy. And your contract can be terminated for that. But your saying voiding Apples T&C's and AT&T's T&C's is ok? But not unlocking? How does that make sense in you mind?

    Please answer this and I will respond to everything else. You haven't answered my questions I have asked you run around them.

    You haven't stuck a nerve with me. I am laughing at this whole thing. I think its comical you think your so right.....
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  31. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    You can justify your business to yourself any way you want, bro.. People do it all the time. But in the end it's making a profit from something that was sold to you that the person had no right to sell to you in the first place. Even Simon gets that.
    Ya, no. Please don't presume you can speak for me. I said nothing of the sort. I don't believe they have no right selling it.

    You ask questions and expect answers yet we ask and get none (you glossed over my opportunity cost one too so conveniently).

    Tell me:
    1)How are the AT&T employees or GSX service providers the same as those who sell something stolen to the pawn shop owner? What have they stolen?
    2) How is cowboy the same as the Pawn Shop owner who doesn't care where it came from?
    3)How is the buyer of the unlock the purchaser of stolen goods? What has the purchaser stolen from ATT? (And don't give me the same BS roaming charges line).

    Tell me how the product he sells is akin to a "stolen good"? I'M all ears.

    See what I did there?


    You were on thin ice with your ethics argument. You just broke through the ice and drowning fast with your "stolen" argument.

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    This is absolutely NOT TRUE. Sorry Grant but I can't let you just say something like this that is clearly a LIE.

    Just last week or so you talked about the Rainmeter program and how it could be an easy port of the widget for Mac that people are working on. You had NO idea how this program worked and how settings were placed in a ini file.

    So how can you say "I am always well studied on every topic I comment on Cowboy. Be assured of that." Just stay away from making such an extreme and untruthful statement like this and things would be better. DON'T BE A LIAR.

    Sorry, I'm just trying to expand your "thinking" just like you said you are trying to expand Cowboys. How is my interactions with u so different than what you are doing with Simon and Cowboy. Seems hypocritical.

    I would love your answer as to how what you said is truthful but I'm sure I won't get it. No offense man, really.
    Last edited by Krima; 10-26-2013 at 05:28 AM.

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  36. #739
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    Krima.. Please don't distort ( your usual mode with me, bro - I think I bring it out in you ).. I said "should be" an easy port.. BombMom and MJ were bringing it over from Java and said it should be done shortly. I never claimed large study on that topic as I have here. My first hearing of RainMeter was from BombMom and MJ.. I fully admitted that. My study of unlocking services and methods is much more extensive and that's why I come with my guns loaded on this topic.

    So I never made any extreme claims about RainMeter - that's a distortion. I "am" given to overstatement - guilty.. But I do NOT "lie".. It seems you're attempting to try and make me look hypocritical with my ethical challenge to unlockers - by capitalizing LIE.. ( thereby accusing me). But it won't work, Krima. I have never lied to anyone on this forum. I'm a "straight shooter".. Sometimes "too straight". And that penchant for "grand" statements can get me into trouble. No problem admitting that.. But your attempted "spin" - to try and call into question my ethics as being a "liar" is disingenuous, bro, and not even intellectually honest when you look at my record on the forum.

    And thanks for not jumping into this particular debate about the ethics of in-contract unlocking. I know that must have been hard for you. And I already think I know (and respect though disagree with) your opinion on it.

    It's my only hope to raise awareness of the compromises we often make in our character in the name of making money or a sense of entitlement.. Making "easy $" from "iffy ethical" means is no different at its core character issue than feeling you have a right to copy software. The openness to "either" comes from the same character flaw.

    I don't know if a carrier locking their devices will ultimately be considered an overreach and made illegal by the government. In the meantime it's their right. And the selling, by employees or GSX service providers, of AT&T's assets (blocks of IMEI #'s) to resellers on eBay is a breech of ethics by any honest objective measure. It's not just a matter of opinion. Whether or not the 'resellers' are then, themselves culpable for selling something stolen.... is 'more subjective'... but barely. For me it's still black and white.. But I can agree to disagree 'agreeably' with others on that point.

    I sleep at night with a clear conscience on matters of personal ethics. It's what every person should strive for. ( there I go again with the grand statements... uggh .. there's just no "off" switch on me... )

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Tell me:
    1)How are the AT&T employees or GSX service providers the same as those who sell something stolen to the pawn shop owner? What have they stolen?
    2) How is cowboy the same as the Pawn Shop owner who doesn't care where it came from?
    3)How is the buyer of the unlock the purchaser of stolen goods? What has the purchaser stolen from ATT? (And don't give me the same BS roaming charges line).

    Tell me how the product he sells is akin to a "stolen good"? I'M all ears.
    I asked Cowboy those questions placing him at the center of the story. The challenge is to him to answer my questions.. to any of you. The reverse questions above - are very easy to answer. But the larger burden of proof is on the 'IS ethical' premise in this debate not on the 'is NOT ethical' side. I will be interested to hear Cowboy's response. Then I will answer your 'reverse questions above', Simon. I'm not gonna be baited by ya, bro. It is not 'I' that is skating on thin ice or falling through. Actually "I" have my opponent in this debate 'on the ropes now'. And everyone's a little worried. Can't wait to hear Cowboy's response (pretty much in fun -- I'm not really angry or anything - but I will be amazed if he can actually destroy my analogy - as it's almost a perfect analogy for what in-contract unlocking services do for a living).

    WARCRAFT!!

    Well --- let me be a team player here.... Cowboy really has nothing to prove to me or anyone else. I generally am a 'live and let live' kind of person. I find this ethics debate compelling - but in the end it's not really meant to 'judge anyone' outright. I DO think we all have a right to 'judge ACTIONS and BEHAVIORS' but 'not PEOPLE'. I am NOT judging Cowboy... and I fear I've used the term 'one's character' a little too much.. If we keep this about 'actions/practices' - it can remain a friendly debate. I hope... If I've crossed that line - I apologize - especially to Cowboy...
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 10-26-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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  37. #740
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    Lmao @ on the ropes. So sad.

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