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God I want to get in on this but I'm trying to be a better person. It's not easy when tempted with such chocolately goodness. Resist Krima...just resist.
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  1. #701
    full moon Krima's Avatar
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    God I want to get in on this but I'm trying to be a better person. It's not easy when tempted with such chocolately goodness. Resist Krima...just resist.

  2. #702
    The Big D NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krima View Post
    God I want to get in on this but I'm trying to be a better person. It's not easy when tempted with such chocolately goodness. Resist Krima...just resist.
    Thanks, Krima.. But I will back down now. As usual I'm overstating my case. I can't personally ever be an unlock service. But Cowboy runs a perfectly legal operation and is of great service to his clients.

    Off my soapbox now... Promise..
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  3. #703
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    You're a master at "non sequitur" arguments, Simon. You make them 'almost' sound compelling, bro.
    My arguments are not "non sequitur" at all. Again, saying something is so doesn't make it so. Throwing big words and phrases out there doesn't make your arguments any more valid, it just makes you seem like you know what you are talking about to the people who are too stupid to know any better. We have a definition for people like that: bullshitters - definition of bullshitters by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    You argue people unlock their phones just to profit off of them on ebay. I'd argue there are more people outside of that country you have a hard time looking beyond that just want to unlock their phone because they want to use it, and don't have the option of using it with the carrier it is locked to where they live.

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  5. #704
    The Big D NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    My arguments are not "non sequitur" at all. Again, saying something is so doesn't make it so. Throwing big words and phrases out there doesn't make your arguments any more valid, it just makes you seem like you know what you are talking about to the people who are too stupid to know any better.
    A non sequitur are two things that have nothing to do with each other.. No correlation of any kind.. One doesn't flow from the other logically. "What people have to pay in the remainder of their contract" and "the ethicality of reselling something acquired unethically" have nothing at all to do with each other. They are a "non sequitur". You main debate technique with me, Simon, is to bring up non sequitur, un-related points as your counter points to my position. It would be akin to me saying, "you shouldn't speed" and then your arguing back "but roads are long". Your statement there would be a non-sequitur. And you'd get killed in a real debate for using non sequitur arguments.

    You argue people unlock their phones just to profit off of them on ebay. I'd argue there are more people outside of that country you have a hard time looking beyond that just want to unlock their phone because they want to use it, and don't have the option of using it with the carrier it is locked to where they live.
    But why are they in need of unlocking? Why do they even have a carrier locked phone in a country without that carrier? Because they are trying to get a cheaper deal buying from eBay - which has an ample supply of sellers who burned an upgrade just to make a profit by selling their in-contract phone which isn't even theirs to sell to begin with (at least not in the first 6 months - which is the full subsidy period).
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  6. #705
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    How does selling a subsidized iPhone for a profit on ebay have nothing to do with that person still paying off that contract and thereby paying for the device? I would say anyone capable of logical thinking can see there is quite a large connection there. Then again what do any of the arguments you get into have to do with logic?

    Hmm, what's that smell?

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  8. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post

    Hmm, what's that smell?
    BS

  9. #707
    The Big D NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    How does selling a subsidized iPhone for a profit on ebay have nothing to do with that person still paying off that contract and thereby paying for the device? I would say anyone capable of logical thinking can see there is quite a large connection there. Then again what do any of the arguments you get into have to do with logic?

    Hmm, what's that smell?
    Now you're changing and mixing topics. Another classic deflection technique from poor debaters. Now you're aligning the "selling for a profit in-contract phones" with "paying off contract".. which is NOT a non sequitor. That's a logical premise about which we can debate. But before you were comparing paying off contract eventually to getting unlocked ahead of time. Foul! Is what would be called in a real debate.

    Stay on topic, Simon.., focus like a laser beam, bro.. The issue is getting one's phone unlocked prior to paying off contract - effectually stealing AT&T's roaming charges from them. Your debating has more twists and turns in it than a Southern Virginia back road.. Lol!!
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 10-25-2013 at 11:29 AM.
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  10. #708
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Now you're changing and mixing topics. Another classic deflection technique is a poor debater. Now you're mixing the selling for a profit with paying off contract.. When before you were comparing paying off contract eventually to getting unlocked ahead of time. Foul! Is what would be. Called in a real debate.

    Stay on topic, Simon.., focus like a laser beam, bro.. The issue is getting one's phone unlocked prior to paying off contract - effectually stealing AT&T's roaming charges from them. Your debating has more twists and turns in it than a Southern Virginia back road.. Lol!!
    Practice what you preach. I could use these EXACT words to decribe your backpedaling, spinning and flipping of the argument to suit your need.

    First you say it is unethical on the users end to not want to pay roaming charges which were "allegedly" agreed upon in the contract (no proof provided of such).
    Then you say it is unethical on the ATT employee side for selling backdoor access to these unlocks to unlock services.

    So which is it, first, second, both? Funny thing is in our PM's I was the one that brought up the ATT employee part of this unethical debate first. You hadn't even mentioned that prior to that. But you very conveniently spun that suit your argument.

    So here is what we are left:
    Unethical: ATT employees providing this access (I agree on this point, I should, I was the one that brought it up, I do think they are justified in this unethical behaviour but that's a whole other argument about the greediness and ethics of a corporation such as ATT).
    Not unethical: Someone honoring their contract by paying the agreed upon monthly charges but still wanting the choice to use other carriers at home or abroad.

    That^ is my stance on things and I am pretty sure most would agree with me.

    I also think most would agree with me about how you argue points can be pretty much summed up in one video:


    YouTube Video

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  12. #709
    Super Moderator Cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om3r View Post
    cowboy i would like to place an order for 2 5S unlock do you think i will get them before wednesday? thanks for your service buddy.. i had no luck with cellunlocker.. let me know if 5S worka so i can placer the unlock order.
    Yes most likely

    Okay NewDestinyX and Simon get this crap into pms or ill just infract both of you this is getting out of hand and we don't need the drama on the forums thanks.
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  13. #710
    The Big D NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
    Okay NewDestinyX and Simon get this crap into pms or ill just infract both of you this is getting out of hand and we don't need the drama on the forums thanks.
    Understood. My apologies, Cowboy for staying public after you asked for PM. Though I feel it's important public topic.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 10-25-2013 at 12:23 PM.
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  14. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
    Yes most likely

    Okay NewDestinyX and Simon get this crap into pms or ill just infract both of you this is getting out of hand and we don't need the drama on the forums thanks.
    Infract me? I'll infract you first!! Then I'll just outright ban his azz. How do you like them apples?

  15. #712
    The Big D NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Infract me? I'll infract you first!! Then I'll just outright ban his azz. How do you like them apples?
    Don't worry.. Off my soapbox.. I'm out.......
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  16. #713
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Don't worry.. Off my soapbox.. I'm out.......
    soapbox? You saying you deal out soap? Like I stink and need soap or something? You calling me dirty?

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  18. #714
    The Big D NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    soapbox? You saying you deal out soap? Like I stink and need soap or something? You calling me dirty?
    O dear, no.. Simon.. You are not dirty.. How could you be? You have all that clean beautiful blue water in Bermuda!! Right?
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

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  20. #715
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    O dear, no.. Simon.. You are not dirty.. How could you be? You have all that clean beautiful blue water in Bermuda!! Right?
    You think I'm joking now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post

    Okay NewDestinyX and Simon get this crap into pms or ill just infract both of you this is getting out of hand and we don't need the drama on the forums thanks.
    Awe! Come on Cowboy. I love this stuff. Reminds me of family reunions when I was a kid.
    As long as there's hate in your heart, there'll be hate in the world. You can't fight for peace and you cannot capture freedom.

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  23. #717
    The Big D NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Practice what you preach. I could use these EXACT words to decribe your backpedaling, spinning and flipping of the argument to suit your need.

    First you say it is unethical on the users end to not want to pay roaming charges which were "allegedly" agreed upon in the contract (no proof provided of such).
    Then you say it is unethical on the ATT employee side for selling backdoor access to these unlocks to unlock services.

    So which is it, first, second, both? Funny thing is in our PM's I was the one that brought up the ATT employee part of this unethical debate first. You hadn't even mentioned that prior to that. But you very conveniently spun that suit your argument.
    This is "projecting", Simon. You do this often. I don't switch topics mid-stream nor have any need to backpedal. I debate as someone who was 'trained' in it. Which I was. I don't 'deflect' and change subjects. You don't LIKE my points and premises so you change the terms of the debate by introducing other unrelated topics. You don't 'always' deflect, bro.. But when you really want to try and prove me wrong - you start the 'changing up topics' and 'non sequitur' dance. You really do, bro.. Like King used to say.. you HATE when I'm right -- or even close to right. So you'll do anything to make ME look the fool. I'm used to it.. and rather bored..
    So here is what we are left:
    Unethical: ATT employees providing this access (I agree on this point, I should, I was the one that brought it up, I do think they are justified in this unethical behaviour but that's a whole other argument about the greediness and ethics of a corporation such as ATT).
    Not unethical: Someone honoring their contract by paying the agreed upon monthly charges but still wanting the choice to use other carriers at home or abroad.

    That^ is my stance on things and I am pretty sure most would agree with me.
    We're aligned on what's unethical in point 1 (which I knew before you told me... I researched this in wanting to start one of my own. I knew of both the GSX unlock method and ATT employee - so don't think I just 'picked up your inside info'.. I already knew).. As to point 2 - we're at agree to disagree. Bypassing a company's lock mechanism because you 'deem' the fees 'ridiculous' is still stealing money straight from AT&T's pockets.. It's a Robin Hood move of taking from the fat corporate giant - and giving to the 'poor' (end user). Unethical. The fact that others would agree with you (you're right there) doesn't make it ethical. Just proves that moral relativism still rules the day. What I don't think you want to see is that paying one's contract off in a timely fashion - that money paid has nothing to do with the money 'owed' when you're overseas - that you now 'stiff' AT&T for by unlocking before end of contract. That's the part you want to 'sweep' away as 'a gray area'. It's not gray for me. It's black and white stealing from AT&T's purse. Exorbitant prices are beside the point.. a non sequitur. Only 'moral relativism' allows the luxury of it being 'thee reason' one feels okay unlocking and not having to pay the roam fees. TOO HIGH!!! SO I'll just unlock.. Solves that... sheeesh..

    I will agree that my 'only reason a person unlocks' is for profit on eBay.. was overstated - and doesn't factor in all the variables.. For me that wasn't an intended 'deflect' - but it was a ''foul".. So i take it back. I would have lost points in that round of debating.. You got me, bro.. LOL!
    HEY!! I promised myself I'd never come back to this thread.. I'm out.....
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 10-25-2013 at 01:58 PM.
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  24. #718
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    blah blah, deflect, deflect. Spin, flip, twirl, back pedal. Never answer the question. Never prove your point.

    I think you may have missed your calling as a lawyer or politician.


    You still haven't backed up your claims that avoiding roaming charges is stealing. And I doubt you ever will.

    Here's a query for you.
    From ATT's point of view what is the opportunity cost of having a customer pay enormous roaming charges, get fed up and then leave for another carrier as opposed to trying to treat them fairly and unlock their phone so said roaming charges are not racked up thereby keeping a happy and loyal customer?
    Economics 101 here (that was my major in University btw). I am almost positive you will come up with some story on how well versed you are in this regard now too though.

    (not trying to relate this to our previous debate, just want to know your view regarding this)

  25. #719
    King Kong ain't got nothing on me! King_O_Hill's Avatar
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    Why am I always brought up in these things. Well, seeing that you opened the door, here we go.

    You keep saying that you are stealing from AT&T, but what are you stealing? They don't lock the phone so that they can screw you on roaming charges, that's just a bonus. They lock them so that they can recoup the subsidy that you received when you bought the phone. So is it ethical for AT&T to price gouge you when you travel? I don't think so. Do 2 wrongs offset, I don't think so either. But to say that you are stealing from them is a little extreme. The contract is written to assure that AT&T gets their subsidy back by collecting the monthly payments, not by charging crazy roaming charges.

    I'm out

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  27. #720
    The Big D NewdestinyX's Avatar
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    Brian,
    How does locking the phone assure subsidy payback? You're are contractually obligated to pay the subsidy back by the "auto signing" of the new contract period when you buy it for the subsid.. price. How do you figure locking guarantees payback? People unlock all the time (unethically) and still have to pay back their contract or be sued by carrier. That's actually one of Simons main points to me. Not following you there, bro.
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