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Thread: The Great Debate

  1. #541

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Simon For This Useful Post:

    Alfroggy (08-23-2013)

  3. #542
    Hey, the party's over here ! And I'm not invited ?

    How come ?
    Last edited by Alfroggy; 08-23-2013 at 02:43 AM.
    The theme in my posts is 3 4 All, by Sk37cH.

    The numerous versions released, and infinite versatility, beats IconOmatic mods. By quality.

  4. #543
    Thanks for moving that junk here, Simon (all of it).. where it belongs...
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

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    Alfroggy (08-23-2013)

  6. #544
    Yeah we're back. So now I can ask Grant a question.

    Dude, why do u always bring up your "20 years of beta testing" ********? U talk about not wanting to offend others and Durben has mentioned how this comes across and yet u just said it again in the widget weather thread.

    What's weird is that it wasn't even necessary in your last post and yet u still brought it up.

    To be honest, this is just one reason why u were not a part of the beta team. No one wants to deal with someone that has such a condescending tone to there communication. U don't always have to force others into accepting why u r right by bringing up your "experience" all the time.

    Even in my nice post about u that u thanked me for, u just had to correct me on something. U just had to point out that beta testing isn't about the big picture. I disagree of course but why did u have to even say that? Seriously, answer that question for me.

    Read about software company Team Bondi. They put out a critically and commercially successful game but went bankrupt because no one wanted to work with the egotistical Founder.

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  8. #545
    ------
    Quote Originally Posted by King_O_Hill View Post
    Thanks for fielding all these questions D!

    Grant,

    Let me see if I can help you to understand this.
    Brian.. We do pretty well together these days.. But that opening statement is condescending. First of all - don't assume you know my level of experience. I am NOT a coder - like you. We know that. But you are also NOT a tweak developer like Stephen and can't, your first time out, understand all you 'think you need'. I will not be dismissed when companies like Apple and Avid have had me do major test cycles for them for over 20 years. On that 'level' (NDA signed beta testing) it's YOU and Derrick that are 'out of your league'.. Well not really -maybe.. But it felt good to say that.. -- after all the times you've lorded it over me.. In your line of work - I'm sure you've done beta work..... But I simply will not be preached to - by you two about what you 'think' you need.


    Comparing the MyLocation app to this tweak is like saying that you orange juice doesn't have enough apple taste in it. Now before you start disagreeing with me hear me out.
    I did hear you out. And you're wrong..not about how myLoc and WW pull data - but on how them both using the same antenna for GPS data "wouldn't make" their comparison very germane to establishing functionality. The same lack of proper comparison in the myLocation widgets not updating this last spring kept us in the dark for months. Until the $ajax timeout problem was found we were stumped. We were stumped because we were asking the 'wrong questions' in those days. I just don't want that to happen with WW too.

    Though Derrick is correct to say that one can often tell if their city hasn't updated by KNOWING where they are - there are those of us who travel for a living that don't know every place we're traveling by heart. D lives and works in one basic place. He can tell. Many of the rest of us can't. Using a myLoc widget as a basis for comparison simply helps us determine if the WW widget SHOULD have changed loc by now. It's THAT simple. Why anyone as intelligent and experienced as you two can't see that as valid is truly mind boggling, bro. JUST don't get it. And you NEED to get why the comparison is valuable. You're so deep in code and caches sometimes that you can't see the big picture in a good testing paradigm.
    So you point doesn't really help us. We are telling you what we need, but you are insistent on telling us what we need. This is the reason that you weren't included in the beta. Simple answer is your unwilling to do what is asked.
    O c'mon.. this has nothing to do with it. You guys don't like to be challenged to the level I challenge in a test cycle and your beta teams are 'cliques'. Krima, admittedly has very little experience to bring to the table, and yet was invited. The rest were modders 'and friends' of you and D.. Please stop with the bull. Ian. MamaJaay and now even Drifter (offline) and others have found my hard look beta testing practice to be very helpful and invite me into the process. Those who don't like my 'push back style' simply don't want to deal with that -- which on one level I can respect.. "Let's not invite the 'tightly wound guy'".. COOL!! No prob... But if you want 'results' - you ask someone that can get you results. I'm a 'pro' beta tester. That boast I can make - simply because it's true. If you don't want my input -- your call... but don't tell me it's because I don't give what 'you want'. As I said, with respect.. and the slightest bit of 'condescension' (because on this issue I've earned it) - you don't know 'what you need', Brian.. because you don't have my level of experience in beta-testing software for national companies. (said mostly 'tongue in cheek' because I know you MUST have participated in betas in the work you do.... but I'm NOT a noob or out of my league with this as you often taunt... )....


    Sorry bud. We have been living this for weeks and want to get it working for most. All would be great, but it is a rather in depth tweak and we are not expecting miracles when running it on a hacked OS!
    I understand and appreciate this position. But of all people, YOU should know, that being on the design team can make you too myopic. You're too close to the project and can't see the forest for the trees. That's why you take it from small alpha team to wider beta team to limited release .. by then 99% of the bugs are worked out..

    I know my 'straight forward communication style' can be a pain-in-the-***. But I get results. If you don't want/need that on future betas - your call. But please call it what it is. It has NOTHING to do with the quality of data I can give you - or that fact that you fear I'll give you something you DON'T need.. it's about your just not liking me.. or the hard questions I ask... You take everything about 'your tweak' -personally. And it's unbecoming a professional as yourself.

    I'm not implying at all that "I'm" the only one that will work hard on a beta or asks good questions.. But i AM saying I'm 'in my element' both personally and professionally when in a test run.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 08-23-2013 at 08:03 AM.
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

  9. #546
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    And I get called a megalomaniac. I would say he doesn't know the meaning of the word but there really is no point. I'm obviously wrong, or missed the point, or came to the party too late, or just don't understand, or am getting caught up in group think. Maybe I should just agree to disagree.

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  11. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Krima View Post
    Yeah we're back. So now I can ask Grant a question.

    Dude, why do u always bring up your "20 years of beta testing" ********? U talk about not wanting to offend others and Durben has mentioned how this comes across and yet u just said it again in the widget weather thread.

    What's weird is that it wasn't even necessary in your last post and yet u still brought it up.

    To be honest, this is just one reason why u were not a part of the beta team. No one wants to deal with someone that has such a condescending tone to there communication. U don't always have to force others into accepting why u r right by bringing up your "experience" all the time.

    Even in my nice post about u that u thanked me for, u just had to correct me on something. U just had to point out that beta testing isn't about the big picture. I disagree of course but why did u have to even say that? Seriously, answer that question for me.

    Read about software company Team Bondi. They put out a critically and commercially successful game but went bankrupt because no one wanted to work with the egotistical Founder.
    I understand, I get it.. You find me condescending. Why do others work with me? MJ, Drifter and Ian? Steve Jobs was the most egotistical bastard on the planet. But he put the best people around himself and got amazing results that changed all of our lives. When King says he codes for a living or D says he does graphic design for a living (in posts) - why is THAT not condescending. The only reason I ever bring up my experience is in defense of the notion some purport about me that I'm "out of my league". As a tester I'm NOT out of my league. I'm a pro. Period. I say it - because it's been QUESTIONED, Krima. Nothing more...

    If simply sharing it - is condescending.. well - I don't know what to say..

    Let's face it, Krima.. All during the ramp up, in the iWidgets thread about creating WW - I was challenging whether basing anything on NATIVE was a good idea.. That just ticked some people off. But after all my bugging I noticed that the design team spent MOST of their time creating the Constant and Semi modes to ASSURE there would be NO auto-updating problem with WW like there had been with Native Weather. Many times in those discussions Durben said -- "I'm just happy to update by sliding down my NC"... Do you really think WW today would have a CONSTANT mode -- if "I" hadn't pushed for the auto-update thing as hard as I did? I seriously doubt it. Was it in the original plans? Well I doubt anyone will tell me the 'truth' about that..

    I weary already of this... Trying to 'prove my worth' to a team - would be vain and useless when a certain "group think" is established and certain people just 'don't want my input'.. because of a 'personality thing'.. But I can get results. I'm available to any dev or modder that wants test results to be well mined for them.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 08-23-2013 at 08:09 AM.
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

  12. #548
    Your all getting schooled today lmao
    Click My Sig For my auros Mods

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  14. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    And I get called a megalomaniac. I would say he doesn't know the meaning of the word but there really is no point. I'm obviously wrong, or missed the point, or came to the party too late, or just don't understand, or am getting caught up in group think. Maybe I should just agree to disagree.
    Those are all 'personal style' "quotes of me". They have nothing to do with the substance of what I bring to the table. Each of you have 'things' for which I have to 'create a filter' to hear the 'real you'. In any forum there is some 'alpha dog' posturing that can happen. It is what it is.

    And to be honest -- I'm not really 'hurt' about the beta test thing as much as I am the condescension toward me about what they think I know and CAN KNOW/UNDERSTAND and what I can't. Then when I bring up some of my credentials... it's just called 'condescending'. Sometimes you can't win for losin' in this place. It gets old, Simon. Even you, a moderator, mock and border on breaking forum rules (in terms of how to treat others) so many times it's like you should use the ban hammer on yourself, bro!

    I never attack here... But i AM attacked REGULARLY -- THEN when I respond to 'defend' myself.. I'm told "I MAKE IT ALL ABOUT ME"... That's so unfair and intellectually dishonest. It really needs to stop. Why can't we just have a 'collegial' attitude toward each other?
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

  15. #550
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    I just saw all the tricks in Grants arsenal in last 2 posts. On his game today fellas. Best recognize.

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  17. #551
    Grant, first let me say that you are not Steve Jobs. Search for an article "Steve Jobs broke every Leadership Rule" and read it. He was the exception and you are the rule. You do not possess the charisma or respect to pull of his style.

    You mentioned me as not having experience but you do not know what I bring to the table, maybe none, but I still get invited to betas. The difference is I don't go around telling people I am in this beta or I am in that beta.

    You disagreed with my big picture comment and didn't answer that question when I asked you too, but you just responded to King saying you are missing the "big picture" of testing. Is that not what I said yesterday in my nice post that you just had to point out was wrong. I am sure you are going to point out how this is not the same and this is exactly why so MANY people are getting fed up with you.

    Even Ian himself said he was confused by YOUR questions. Ian was confused by how the tweak worked because of you. That says a lot and we have gotten results without you.

    You can't accept the fact that your personality has prevented you from being in the "clique" as you put it. You want in Grant, stop being a Douche Lord.

    Oh and by the way, your "input" wasn't the reason there was a constant mode. Pay attention now, you had NO impact on the features of this tweak and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
    Last edited by Krima; 08-23-2013 at 08:16 AM.

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  19. #552
    Constant was all my idea obviously
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  21. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Krima View Post
    You can't accept the fact that your personality has prevented you from being in the "clique" as you put it. You want in Grant, stop being a Douche Lord.
    Face the facts, Krima. I've already BEEN invited to many test teams. On the national level. I am the same with them as I am here. Do you think if it were about 'my personality' I would be consistently asked back? It's just not about me, Krima... it's about the 'establishment' around here... I am not a 'kiss azz'.. and never will be. If all you want are great 'sweet congenial' people -- knock yourself out.. I'm NOT that guy..

    Oh and by the way, your "input" wasn't the reason there was a constant mode put in. You had NO impact on the features of this tweak and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
    LOL!!! As if your assurance will convince me... You're in a combative mode now. If Brian and Derrick tell me Constant Mode was thought about from day 1 - because I ever said a word - I will take them at their word.. But every time I explained my disinterest in any tweak that wouldn't auto-update location Derrick would tell me that going into his NC was perfectly fine for him. It was just a natural conclusion for me that 'our' (others besides me too of course) would have sparked the idea (need) for a constant mode. If it was there from day 1... cool...

    See your reaction there, Krima... that last edited line you added? You just have to 'push me into "my" place'... I understand... that when you feel 'condescended to' it can bring that out.. And I surely have been trying to play SO much more nicely.. But I was offering SIMPLY help and was practically FORBADE to speak of myLocation in the WW thread.. How am I supposed to respond to that???????? And then for D and King to have the audacity to try and school me on what is valuable info in a test scenario... as if I'm a rank upstart.... ANYONE would have 'stepped to their face'... as I did... It was totally uncalled for and ungrateful.

    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNY29 View Post
    Constant was all my idea obviously
    I KNEW IT!!!! It's ALWAYS you, Gunny!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I just saw all the tricks in Grants arsenal in last 2 posts. On his game today fellas. Best recognize.
    Just reported this post to the moderators as breaking the rules...
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

  22. #554
    Grant I don't care about your "National Level" testing. This isn't national man, its just a forum. You said u were kinda hurt by not being invited and now u are saying that u weren't hurt. Which one is it man?

    Trust me when I say, you have no idea what people here really think about you. Do not mistake politeness with acceptance. Do not mistake tolerance with approval.

    And I love how if it comes from me it isn't valid. What I said about you and your input with regards to a constant mode will be confirmed by someone else so I expect an apology when that happens.
    Last edited by Krima; 08-23-2013 at 08:35 AM.

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    Simon (08-23-2013)

  24. #555
    I have very few comments to all of this.

    I have only once said that I write code for a living. Only because I was asked and I also stated that it is not HTML, JS or CSS. I write software for a part of my job. So I guess your correct that I am in over my head. I can't possible see how writing software could help in writing a tweak.

    Trust me too in that your whining about Native Weather contributed nothing in the constant and semi modes. This was decided very early on before we even got the very first version. Get over yourself, again.

    When I tell you what we need, it is based on what the dev has asked for. But I guess you know better than he does as to what he needs. I will be sure to pass along to him that he is asking for the wrong data.

    Also the beta team selection was done with more than just your inside the box thinking. Part if my job is putting together teams for projects. I've learned that there is great merit in utilizing people that get along together is sometimes more important than the content that they can provide. This is not a job, nor is it for pay. I picked some of the people because these were people that I wanted to interact with on a daily basis. People that would not start arguments. People that would truly work together with 2 goals in mind, this is fun to do and let's find a better way.

    I never speak of my background. You don't have much idea what I do. I don't constantly brag about anything that I do, this is not the place for it.

    I can't even comment on the rest of the crap that you wrote.

    Check out WW2 for iOS 8 - Widget-Weather 2.0

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  26. #556
    Not strictly true King you pm me regularly bragging how you ride a golden unicycle to work
    Click My Sig For my auros Mods

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  28. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by GUNNY29 View Post
    Not strictly true King you pm me regularly bragging how you ride a golden unicycle to work
    Hey, that was our secret

    Check out WW2 for iOS 8 - Widget-Weather 2.0

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  30. #558
    Haha I couldn't have you coming in here telling lies bro. Sorry
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  32. #559
    I do NOT start arguments, King. But I do respond when people push back on me for no good reason simply because I was trying to offer help. And I pushback on people that occasionally get so pushy with an affront to me when I'm simply there to offer help - like you have whenever I dare to enter a thread where you're helping someone. I also never tell people "they're out of their league" as you have often done to me. And you have talked about your experience more than once, my friend. The problem here, for me, there's a double standard at this place many times.

    Stephen would want to know, Brian, that the tweak in constant mode was not updating with the regularity of the GPS antenna itself reporting a new position. Using MyLocation, a tested and proven bugless tweak, gives us a comparison base for discovering when an actual new GPS location is being reported to the phone at any entry point. MyLocation updates… WW doesn't update… The problem is obviously in WW. Stephen would want to know that, don't you think?
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 08-23-2013 at 09:17 AM.
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

  33. #560
    If you can find more than 2 posts of mine where I have talked about my experience and where I said that you are out of your league, I will send you $1000. I have made comments to these 2 topics only once or twice. You have brought them up numerous times saying that I always say these things. It is you that perpetuate these comments, not me brother.

    Stephen is aware of the problems and the way for him to solve them is with written proof of what is happening. He gets this proof through the log file and the crash report. Trust me, you telling him there is a problem, is not helping one bit, he knows.

    Your reference to how you were gauging WW to MyLocation was based on how your widgets were updating. You never said that the tweak was updating position at a different intervals. How would you know? You are basing all this off of the actual update of the widget and not the update tweak! You cant tell when the tweak updates unless you look at the log files. This is exactly what I need, but you refuse to acknowledge this and you refuse to send them to me.

    Check out WW2 for iOS 8 - Widget-Weather 2.0

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