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Thread: The Great Debate

  1. #521
    Phew, I agree Simon !

    Well NewDestinyX at least helped us understand the core of this widget revolutionary tweak through his multitude of questions.
    The theme in my posts is 3 4 All, by Sk37cH.

    The numerous versions released, and infinite versatility, beats IconOmatic mods. By quality.

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  3. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Durben View Post
    Was updated twice since then.
    Install over top of your previous version
    Thanks, Derrick. and ooo... is this version is even snappier at updating?? !!! Thx!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Simon rant over.
    Maybe the wine talking, bro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfroggy View Post
    Well NewDestinyX at least helped us understand the core of this widget revolutionary tweak through his multitude of questions.
    Thank you, Alfroggy. Someone who gets it.

    We all have different learning styles and learning curves. Let's just live & let live.

    I get many a PM thanking me for asking questions some feel intimidated to ask.
    Last edited by Simon; 08-20-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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  5. #523
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post

    Maybe the wine talking, bro?
    Definitely. Still true though.

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  7. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Definitely. Still true though.
    Overreaction....

    No one's enjoying the ride more than me, bro... I assure you.. . Not sure why you'd associate asking intricate questions as 'kill joy' activity. I am having a BLAST! And we're all learning.... Keep in mind - you've had WEEKS/MONTHS to wrap your brain around it all as a tester. Just a few days old to the rest of us. Let us enjoy the discovery... please...
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

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  9. #525
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Overreaction....

    No one's enjoying the ride more than me, bro... I assure you.. . Not sure why you'd associate asking intricate questions as 'kill joy' activity. I am having a BLAST! And we're all learning.... Keep in mind - you've had WEEKS/MONTHS to wrap your brain around it all as a tester. Just a few days old to the rest of us. Let us enjoy the discovery... please...
    Over thinking. Over analyzing. Over compensating? These should be words of the day. Having the same thing explained multiple times to the same person gets a little annoying, especially if continually questioned and challenged at every step along the way. Gets old.

    Oh, and not sure exactly how long ago I was invited into the beta. Sometime around when someone called me a rank noob I believe.

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  11. #526
    I too have had 3 safe modes happen since the tweak's been installed. Pretty much knew it was from the tweak - but I haven't had the phone go off like Ian mentioned. Glad Stephen's "on it". I'm not worried..;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Over thinking. Over analyzing. Over compensating? These should be words of the day. Having the same thing explained multiple times to the same person gets a little annoying, especially if continually questioned and challenged at every step along the way. Gets old.
    This perception is way off, bro. As I've said many times. If a question were thoroughly answered (not in haste) I would never re-ask it or ask for clarification. I do training for a living - and though I believe I have the privilege of receiving great things from brilliant designers here - sometimes the explaining leaves a bit to be desired (except from Durben, Ian and Dacal who are very thorough - most times King too). Even the great Ian just expressed how the differences between Manual, Fixed, Semi & Constant are not "intuitive" to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Nicoll View Post
    Wish I had been a part of this from the beginning, might understand it better, the options still confuse even me LOL...
    My point exactly, bro.

    Though thanks to Durben & King I now understand them. All we need YOU to do, Ian, is add a few more of your comment out // explanation lines in Dacals new code to explain what's happening "when" in the UniAW.js file.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 08-21-2013 at 08:05 AM.
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  12. #527
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Isn't it funny how one persons perception can be so different from another's?

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  14. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Nicoll View Post
    Hi Grant,

    Actually once I took the time to read the first post it's pretty straight forward, it was all the replies you were getting in the last few pages that was confusing me M8 LOL...

    This is all we need really.
    Keep in mind - most of my questions were asked PRIOR to us having the in depth page 1 with that picture. Since that time (pre tweak release) my only comments have been focussed on the interaction between Time Update Interval and the localization setting. Something not explained in Post 1. They were valid questions/clarifications to ask, bro.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Isn't it funny how one persons perception can be so different from another's?
    I assure you - it's not 'all' others. I speak for several 'silent ones'. And to think of yours and a couple of other beta testers 'perception' as inclusive of 'all' is bordering on megalomania, Simon.. Not like you..

    And Ian's original point is worth taking into consideration - his implying that the explanations of constant, semi, etc.. should be in the tweak itself - and not just on Page 1 of the thread. I think that would be a nice and helpful addition.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 08-21-2013 at 09:04 AM.
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  15. #529
    Modder & Coder Ian Nicoll's Avatar
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    No worries Grant, I learned something from all your questions too M8.

    "If it's not broken, I'll fix it till it is"

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  17. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Nicoll View Post
    No worries Grant, I learned something from all your questions too M8.
    THANK you, Ian..
    Here to help if I can. If I can't I know someone who can!

  18. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Nicoll View Post
    No worries Grant, I learned something from all your questions too M8.
    I learned something too from all his questions, it just wasn't tweak related.

    Grant, I remember u saying many times that when people use the "I get PMs from people agreeing with me" that this means nothing because it could just be made up. And yet u have used this as a way to legitimize your points.

    If u have a code, principal, philosophy, standard, or whatever, u should live by it always and not just when it's convenient.

    Just something to consider with regards to why Simon said what he said. I'm sure if Simon has opened up about his "silent ones" it wouldn't be a contest.

    I'm very happy that everyone has been enjoying the tweak. I think all involved feels like this has gone over very smoothly and people seem to be satisfied with its function.

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  20. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Krima View Post
    I learned something too from all his questions, it just wasn't tweak related.

    Grant, I remember u saying many times that when people use the "I get PMs from people agreeing with me" that this means nothing because it could just be made up. And yet u have used this as a way to legitimize your points.

    If u have a code, principal, philosophy, standard, or whatever, u should live by it always and not just when it's convenient.

    Just something to consider with regards to why Simon said what he said. I'm sure if Simon has opened up about his "silent ones" it wouldn't be a contest.

    I'm very happy that everyone has been enjoying the tweak. I think all involved feels like this has gone over very smoothly and people seem to be satisfied with its function.
    Why is it when I go to my subscribed topics page and see the 'most recent post' is by Krima -- that I 'immediately know' that it's probably not going to be something helpful for the understanding of something.. but a 'useless life commentary' about me... Now this is not always true.. Occasionally you answer technical questions.. and I'm grateful. But your commentary on me is just so -- off.

    I actually don't need PM's to back my point.. thanks count and number of posts in which those thanks appear tells me all I need. (--first - that King uses his thanks button too much.... :P)..

    As usual.. thanks, but no thanks, Krima.. We're good -- but your patronizing commentary REAAAAALY gets old....
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  21. #533
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewdestinyX View Post
    Keep in mind - most of my questions were asked PRIOR to us having the in depth page 1 with that picture. Since that time (pre tweak release) my only comments have been focussed on the interaction between Time Update Interval and the localization setting. Something not explained in Post 1. They were valid questions/clarifications to ask, bro.


    I assure you - it's not 'all' others. I speak for several 'silent ones'. And to think of yours and a couple of other beta testers 'perception' as inclusive of 'all' is bordering on megalomania, Simon.. Not like you..

    And Ian's original point is worth taking into consideration - his implying that the explanations of constant, semi, etc.. should be in the tweak itself - and not just on Page 1 of the thread. I think that would be a nice and helpful addition.
    Not just the beta team. First people to thank my posts on this subject I had no idea felt same way.
    And please don't put words in my mouth or label me. I never said all people feel that way. That's your own analysis of what I said. I was expressing my own opinion and at no time said otherwise. You have a knack for twisting people's words to fit your own agenda. That's the only thing that is getting old around here.

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  23. #534
    Grant, to be honest you are a great tester. You are the most thorough person I know. U look for ways to break things so they can get fixed and this helps out everyone. U keep an eye out for potential issues and anticipate problems. You are proactive and not reactive. All this makes u great at testing.

    I don't think anyone will deny this to be true, well maybe King will. But none of what I said relates to why I give u such a hard time. The simple truth is when testing, u need to concentrate on the big picture and the most pressing concerns. Whether or not this tweak updates the city within 1 minute of the old method is simply inconsequential. To harp on this fact is annoying and exhausting. This is just one example.

    Sorry if I was patronizing but I think no matter what I say, even if I have good intentions, you will always perceive me as such. Being critical of u is not to dismiss all the good input that comes from u. It is more or less to help your input become more palpable. We are all good and I admit I have been more combative with u lately and for this I apologize.

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  25. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Not just the beta team. First people to thank my posts on this subject I had no idea felt same way.
    And please don't put words in my mouth or label me. I never said all people feel that way. That's your own analysis of what I said. I was expressing my own opinion and at no time said otherwise. You have a knack for twisting people's words to fit your own agenda. That's the only thing that is getting old around here.
    Your implication in your 'under the influence' post 'seemed' clear, Simon.. Clear 'to me'.. But if I misread your intent - then that's on me... People usually don't speak up around here - about something that's 'under their skin' just because it's only THEM that feels that way. They try to speak for others. You've done this before with me a few times - implied the royal "we". That's why I assumed it this time as well.

    I can only assure you that I am NOT trying to twist words - and I do NOT have an agenda. My only agenda around here is to help people and get a greater understanding of the tools we're using. REALLY.. and Truly.. If I misread your intent... then I withdraw my 'all' comment.

    Thanks.. Peace..

    Quote Originally Posted by Krima View Post
    Grant, to be honest you are a great tester. You are the most thorough person I know. U look for ways to break things so they can get fixed and this helps out everyone. U keep an eye out for potential issues and anticipate problems. You are proactive and not reactive. All this makes u great at testing.

    I don't think anyone will deny this to be true, well maybe King will. But none of what I said relates to why I give u such a hard time. The simple truth is when testing, u need to concentrate on the big picture and the most pressing concerns. Whether or not this tweak updates the city within 1 minute of the old method is simply inconsequential. To harp on this fact is annoying and exhausting. This is just one example.

    Sorry if I was patronizing but I think no matter what I say, even if I have good intentions, you will always perceive me as such. Being critical of u is not to dismiss all the good input that comes from u. It is more or less to help your input become more palpable. We are all good and I admit I have been more combative with u lately and for this I apologize.
    Thank you very much, Krima, for that. All of it. The encouragement and the acknowledgment of how your interactions with 'me' can come across. Appreciate your taking the time to pen that. As i said - we're good. This is not like the early days.. I think we 'get each other' a little more now.

    When I push hard on a tweak and try to bend and break it - I think devs and people highly invested in the tweak - CAN take it personally (BlueMetal doesn't want me in any of his thread themes).. as if I've insulted their child or something. Good testing is about 'pushing it 'til' it breaks'. All my officialy OS beta testing for Apple over 20 years and for other tech companies has taught me this. In fact you sign an agreement to 'push it to the limits' as part of the NonDisclosure beta tester agreement you sign.

    But -- I also acknowledge that my 'tone' - the 'Not always right but always confident' aspect of my interactions - can 'get old'...come across arrogant and pedantic. I'll try and 'dial it back'..

    I couldn't be MORE impressed with this tweak!!!!!! I don't like Yahoo's level of accuracy.. but that's been my cry for a long time...

    Moving on.. and, again, thank you, Krima... Nice post.
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 08-21-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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  27. #536
    Your welcome Grant, and your right, things aren't as bad as they used to be. But let's not forget the second half of my post, ok.

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  29. #537
    Superbad Modder-ator Simon's Avatar
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    People say stuff all the time. I hear it here, in PMs and in the beta group, and not just from the people you think. And have been hearing it all for a very long time. I spoke up just for me though, which is why I didn't mention anyone else. What i said was solely my opinion on the matter and should be taken as such. If others agree or speak up after then that is their choice. I normally have a lot of patience for you and try to be fair on all subjects but even I have my limits and need to say something every once in a while.

    Not sure why you sometimes rely on posts and thanks count to back up your arguments either. I have more posts than anyone on this site and my thanks count is not too shabby either. Didn't stop you from calling me a rank noob though.

    Spent too much time on this. Back to my vacation. Spin it anyway you want. Don't care anymore.

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  31. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    People say stuff all the time. I hear it here, in PMs and in the beta group, and not just from the people you think. And have been hearing it all for a very long time.
    "Group think" is all too common in the forum world. I get it. It doesn't phase me as you may well have learned by now about me. ..
    I normally have a lot of patience for you and try to be fair on all subjects but even I have my limits and need to say something every once in a while.
    Fair enough. it doesn't mean your perceptions are true, though. Only reason I brought it up..

    Not sure why you sometimes rely on posts and thanks count to back up your arguments either. I have more posts than anyone on this site and my thanks count is not too shabby either. Didn't stop you from calling me a rank noob though.
    You know darn well - I was ONLY referring to your being a 'modder'. You told me after I met you that you had NO TIME for the modding section. Wasn't your thing. You were a jailbreak specialist. I won't assume you're trying to twist 'my' words there, bro.. "A noob" - only as a modder was my clear statement in that post. And now you're a very fine modder too.

    When you have to blow up, blow up..

    And by all means -get back to your vacation!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Krima View Post
    But let's not forget the second half of my post, ok.
    I hear you.. But I have to correct one thing. There's no such thing as focussing on the 'big picture' when you're doing effective testing, Krima. It all needs to be 'zoomed WAY in' - to be of real help to the designer/dev. But I get it about my tone...
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 08-21-2013 at 10:37 AM.
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  32. #539
    Why does something as relaxing and fun as weather have to constantly turn into back-and-forth drama every time? It's the non-stop bickering that turns a lot of otherwise creative and talented people away from participating in ventures like this.

    You have to sift through a tremendous amount of noise just to actually get to what this thread is supposed to be about. Grant, I know you mean well but you are not doing yourself any favors by continuing to defend and reiterate your stance. This is a hobby and a fun thing for a lot of us and it does not need to be constantly soured by this pettiness.

    I am just about to stop following for this reason. Grant, I would ask that you make a real effort to chill out so that the community can discuss ideas without having to constantly turn a creative and pretty amazing project into being about *you*. Perhaps you don't realize it, but you pretty much make the discussion about you every time you post. Take a step back and please stop talking everything seriously and so personally. No one is against you but this is getting old very quickly.

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  34. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by joshlogic View Post
    Perhaps you don't realize it, but you pretty much make the discussion about you every time you post. Take a step back and please stop talking everything seriously and so personally. No one is against you but this is getting old very quickly.
    I am only ever the 'defender', Josh. Never the attacker. This only and ever happens 'after' I'm personally attacked - as I was this time. As usual. All I do is ask questions and make observations. After I'm attacked... yep.. I do make it about me (because it 'was' about me in the attack).. You would too, Josh.

    Perhaps Simon can 'carefully' and FAIRLY extract the off topic posts here and place them in THE GREAT DEBATE. But please make sure your original 'rant post' to me, Simon, goes to the other thread too if you're going to do that, sir... Otherwise -- it wouldn't really be fair...

    I'm done.. Someone else can have the last word.. (unless it's an attack )
    Last edited by NewdestinyX; 08-21-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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