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02-29-2012, 08:24 PM #1
What if we traveled outside the universe?
Think I seen this on a discovery channel program
"Since the universe is still (theorised) to be expanding at an exponential speed since the big bang, the closer we got the the edge of the universe even travaling at the speed of light we would never reach the edge of the universe as it would be expanding faster than we could travel.
now if your talking about simply looking at the universe as a static object, example like a marble and you want to know what would be outside of the marble then all the laws of physics as we understand them would break down, there is only one other place in the universe where this happens a black hole. so I belive that "outside" the universe is the same conditions that are inside a black hole. This leads to the possability that within the event horizion of every black hole in the entire universe there is a self contained universe of its own, each with there own black holes, and limitation of not being able to observe outside there universe due to nothing being able to escape from the event horizon of the singularity. Since we have no way of being able to observe beyond the event horizon of a black hole, and no way of being able to observe outside of the universe there is no way to prove (or disprove) this theory, the beauty of this is it explains how there is so much matter in our universe, it is the product of matter falling into the black hole that our universe is contained in."
Last edited by Zeal; 02-29-2012 at 08:56 PM.EDM
02-29-2012, 08:35 PM #2
Where you been?
Also what are you doing watching the discovery. I wouldn't think you would even stop on that channel.[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
02-29-2012, 08:37 PM #3
Zeal had an original thought? nah, copy/paste I'm guessing..........................lol
'sup Serg? Where ya been?
02-29-2012, 08:55 PM #4
Hai guiez, and yeah copy and paste but nobody answered it so i decided to post it here for an answer lol.
And ive been super busy in school
And i actually LOVE discovery/historyEDM
02-29-2012, 09:34 PM #5
Well we learn something new everyday and this is my new for the day. Zeal is a closet nerd. (I watch both of those and Science channel all the time)
I have always questioned my science teacher all throughout school when they said the univerise is always expanding I always asked then what is it expanding into if the universe is the whole.[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
02-29-2012, 09:50 PM #6
02-29-2012, 10:33 PM #7
Goes back to my general question. If the universe is everything out there then why is it expanding? Can't expanding into yourself because what you are expanding into already exists as yourself.
Galaxies sort of are just floating there.[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
02-29-2012, 10:56 PM #8
As a preface for what I'm about to launch into: there are two kinds of physics - those of the physical world above and beyond what's measurable, that we know to exist, and 'physics' as in the human study and experimentation of our physical reality which truly only exists in the human mind and is made up of numbers, abstraction, and imagination. Keep in mind here that I speak mostly of physics as the 'physical world'.
This may be semantics but I think it's also important to point out that it would be wrong to consider the Universe itself to have an 'edge'. UNI-verse is always singular, one, everything, all-encompassing - even whatever nothingness happens to be outside the realm of the physical world. So really we should consider the physical realm the 'known Universe'. If our known, expanding Universe happens to bump into the outer limits or edge of another 'body' (or marble) that is also expanding, then there wouldn't be two Universes - it would just be two parts of the same Universe. (Strangely, the plural "Universes" doesn't trip up my spell-check, even though no such plural should exist)
I highly doubt the conditions in a black hole are the same as that which exists outside the Universe (if there is such a thing). Inside a black hole physics don't break down or work differently - a black hole is indeed part of the Universe and governed by matter and energies, which means any warping of time, matter, and/ or space itself would be deemed a natural occurrence and within the limits of they physical Universe, no matter how weird. The conditions are so extreme and we're unable to replicate or test in in a lab, so it will forever remain outside the domain of human knowledge - but only in the scientific, measurable sense - as humans we can always use our imaginations along with the solid knowledge that black holes do indeed exist and make sense
The theoretical void outside the Universe would be true nothingness/ emptiness - not one photon or neutrino passes through - but the empty space is most definitely 'there' and "exists" in order for the Universe (and its matter, light, and waves of energies) to expand into - there would have to be. There's also theories that some forms of radiation exist in that nothingness, which is essentially the same conditions before the Big Bang. Physics (as in 'our physical world') don't really 'break down' or unravel, per se, outside the Universe - physics simply wouldn't exist. There would be no two 'things' to interact to a measurable or non-measuarable degree, which is all physics is about. It seems a bit strange to point out, but without 'stuff', physics would be meaningless to a degree that transcends the word.
Physics, we know, is a universal constant - if the conditions are identical then water is exactly as wet on one side of the Universe as the other. The physics (as in math; the study of) inside a black hole is just as immeasurable as the conditions, or lack of conditions, 'outside' the Universe, but two things being equally unknowable and immeasurable are not equally mysterious. We know black holes exist within our physical Universe, and frankly whatever is outside the known Universe is irrelevant because it's... nothing. Meaningless.
Only 'outside' the Universe would true nothingness exist. In the farthest, most desolate parts of space between the stars (in the physical Universe), there is never 'nothing'. Empty space is a conduit for energies - photons, radiation, gravity - all of these energies fill and race through every space. Even the nothingness between atoms is not truly empty. Gravity, heat, radiation, neutrinos - it saturates and passes between even such small spaces. Sure, physics/ reality gets weird and possibly 'holographic' at a certain magnification, and perhaps folds here and there - but even such infinitesimal spaces are not 'empty'.
To take it a bit further: every atom in the known Universe affects every other atom to some degree. The imperceptible gravity well that the mass of our bodies possesses affects even the farthest star in our Universe, because we are a part of it. The energy our bodies contain was transferred into existence at the same moment as every other star and galaxy - at the beginning of time. Abstractly, our minds create the illusion that we stand apart from all things outside our personal perspective, but the fact is that we ARE, quite literally, the Universe itself turned sentient. All of us - anything with a mind, is the Universe itself come to life - no, awakened. Nothing else blows my mind as much as that realization, and I don't think anything ever will.
The Following User Says Thank You to Jahooba For This Useful Post:
02-29-2012, 11:30 PM #9
Jahooba just dropped a bomb. A knowledge bomb.[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
03-01-2012, 12:06 AM #10
Yeah, that was fun - it's been a while since I've talked Universe stuff. Theoretical physics doesn't prove useful in everyday life, I've found
03-01-2012, 12:43 AM #11
It's worth noting that the perception of the "universe" is affected by our taxonomy we apply to it. There very well could be other entirely self-contained (or holographic, if you will) clusters of galaxies, neutrinos, photons, etc. that are "far enough apart" not to have any (perceivable) effect on our own and therefore are essentially imperceptible to us within this cluster. Are they the same Universe? Only if the same laws of physics as we know apply within?
Also, I take exception to "unknowable and immeasurable" bits of black holes. If the laws of physics (those known and not yet known) are obeyed in all aspects of space (which by your, and most everyone's postulation, they are), then they apply to black holes all the same; and their attributes can be very accurately hypothesized, if not actually measured or observed. Now how might we go about deciphering these rules? Well... I'm not a theoretical physicist.
03-01-2012, 12:48 AM #12
Orby, are you talking out of uranus?
03-01-2012, 12:52 AM #13
And where is your theory/input on this then One?[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
03-01-2012, 01:00 AM #14
03-01-2012, 01:30 AM #15
And anyway, while a singularity is terrifying in scope, it's really quite boring if you think about it. It's just a lot of mindless mass dumped together causing a very steep gravity well. Yawn* There's nothing going on down there we need concern ourselves with.
03-01-2012, 04:39 AM #16
03-01-2012, 12:26 PM #17
Dang, hope there isn't a test........(zoom, info flies over my head) lolz
03-01-2012, 12:28 PM #18
Lol bo I'm with ya there.
03-01-2012, 12:31 PM #19
Who would have thought that Zeal would have inspired such a deep topic/thread. Now this even blows my mind more then all the info posted. Guess it says something................doh
03-01-2012, 04:14 PM #20
What's this about Singular? I believe the correct spelling is "Cingular", I used to have them before they were bought out by AT&T. Thank you, I'll be here all week.And it will be like a taco inside a taco within a Taco Bell that's inside a KFC that's within a mall that's inside your dream!