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Thread: How Can Apple Do This Legally?
04-23-2010, 06:10 PM #1How Can Apple Do This Legally?
Greetings again from iTunes, my name is Mike and your app issue has been escalated to me.
I am currently working toward getting you a refund for your app. You will receive an email after the matter has been investigated and further information is available.
Thank you for your patience. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. I will be contacting you soon. Thank you for being a member of our iTunes Store community. Have a great day!
iTunes Store Senior Advisor
Please note I work; Tue-Sat 6:00a.m.-3:00p.m. PST
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to assist you. You may receive an AppleCare survey email; any feedback you provide would be greatly appreciated.
Greetings again, Mike here. I'm sorry that some of the items you purchased are no longer available. I am very sorry, but according to the iTunes Store Terms of Sale, all purchases made on the iTunes Store are final. Therefor I will not be able to issue a refund for the app.
This policy matches Apple's refund policies and provides protection for copyrighted materials.
You can review the iTunes Store Terms of Sale for more information:
Apple - Redirect to Terms
Please note that Apple does not offer protection for the loss of data from your hard disk, so I recommend that you back up your iTunes library as soon as possible and thereafter on a regular basis. If your hard disk needs to be replaced, you can restore your purchases and other data from the backup and avoid the need to purchase replacement copies of your collection. These articles explain how to back up your iTunes library:
How to back up your media in iTunes
How to back up your media in iTunes
Also developers have the right to remove their content from the iTunes Store. The app may have been removed by the developer and not by us.
You might wish to contact the developer. You can contact them here:
Again, I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. Thank you.
Please note I work; Thursday-Monday 8:00a.m.-5:00p.m. PST
Wow what a joke... It took escalation to a "Senior Advisor" and how many days in order to provide me with a bull **** response like that...? I could care less what your Terms of Sale says, have you ever heard of taking care of your customers? Why would you straight up lie to me, telling me to waste more of my time to contact the developer? The developer did not remove this app, I know that and you know that. Apple all of sudden removed this one and many other WiFi apps, arbitrarily after profiting off of it for years, and then you are going to refuse to refund my money? Is Apple looking for a lawsuit? Such a shame Apple is so greedy, record profits yet you wont refund a few dollars to a laid off Californian. Absolutely pathetic!
Again I am sorry that I cannot issue you a refund for the app. Although I cannot issue the refund would you accept some song credits so at the very least you can enjoy some music on me?
Please reply and let me know if you would like me to add the credits to your account. Thank you.
No I do not want song credits, I have never purchased music from you and do not plan to. I use the AppStore, give me App credits... Why can you not issue a refund for the app?? That is ridiculous, I personally know of other people who have been refunded for lesser reasons. If what you say is true, "I am very sorry, but according to the iTunes Store Terms of Sale, all purchases made on the iTunes Store are final." then why would some people be able to receive refunds and not others?? Furthermore why would you originally say "I am currently working toward getting you a refund for your app. You will receive an email after the matter has been investigated and further information is available." if you have a blanket policy based on your Terms of Sale, why would you have ever said this statement initially?? Obviously the Terms of Sale excuse is garbage, what reasoning does Apple take when randomly deciding who deserves refunds and who does not?? You remove a useful, original app and refuse to refund your customers, yet you will allow tons apps and games which duplicate another popular one and rely solely on people accidentally purchasing the wrong one, such as in my case "ParkinsLot" and "Parking Lot". I can not believe the amount of backwards non-sense decisions from Apple...
So you are just going to ignore your customers now and not reply at all? How can you refuse a refund, you control what goes in the AppStore, yet you allow this app in for years. You profit off of it for a how long and then decide it is not allowed because of code that was used in it which wasn't hidden or not known of when it was first allowed. How can you not expect a lawsuit or FCC regulations eventually? What incentive do people have to not jailbreak? From where I stand now, after this correspondence, I don't see why I shouldn't. The app that you removed, and refuse to even refund my money for, is available free if you do. I have always been a big fan of Apple, but more and more lately you are really pissing off your loyal customers... It is really quite sad.
We would have liked the opportunity to address your concerns, but your language made it difficult.
Under the iTunes Terms of Service for the Apps Store it states:
"You agree not to modify the software in any manner or form, or to use modified versions of the software, for any purposes including obtaining unauthorized access to the Service. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability."
Jailbreaking any apps or your ipod/iPhone is a violation of these terms.
The iTunes Store Sales and Service Policies are available for you to review:
Terms of Sale
Terms of Service
Apple - Redirect to Terms
The iTunes Store now considers this case closed to further discussion. Any further responses pertaining to this issue will go unanswered. Thank you for your understanding.
Last edited by stasis; 04-23-2010 at 06:17 PM.
04-23-2010, 06:14 PM #2
04-23-2010, 06:25 PM #3
That is pretty stupid. There's buying an app and then thinking its stupid and not refunding their money, but when they literally can not use the app it is ridiculous to deny them a refund. What I do not agree with is when you said you don't want song credits but app credits. I understand you were upset but the guy was showing consent. Being a human being, he feels compassion for others so he wanted to do something to help as reperations but you didn't just deny it, you kinda threw it right back in his face. I feel a little bad for the guy. Also, the fact that they just dropped it all because your ipod is jailbroken out of no where after you made some points is just not right. I understand Apple not wanting to help as jailbreaking voids the policy but they should have at least said more instead of just leaving you in the dark, likely just enraging you ten times more.
04-23-2010, 06:27 PM #4
What a b**** move by apple lol.
04-23-2010, 06:33 PM #5
As far as the jailbreaking, I did not say that mine is, and it still isnt as of today. I just stated that there is not much incentive for me not to, the app in question was released for free on Cydia after Apple decided to pull it from the AppStore, I read this on the developers site after Apple told me to contact them. Also that was only after seeing this was not going to get anywhere, they just stopped responding, I waited for weeks...
04-23-2010, 06:54 PM #6
Thats just crazy...I'm going thru the same thing with some apps that I have purchased and want my damn refund , I'm gonna email them asap and use this as reference...like no i don't want no damn song credit lol[IMG]http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9703/modu.gif[/IMG]
04-23-2010, 06:58 PM #7
wow that sucks
Please know we are praying Kyle (poetic_folly) and Robyn Matthews for your little one.
You too blkcadi
04-23-2010, 07:01 PM #8
04-23-2010, 07:06 PM #9
Dunno how many cheeseburgers full of snot this guy has had. Probably a good few.
Obviously spurred on by all the negative publicity Apple has been getting, you seen an opportunity to act like a tit and then go post your story on numerous blogs.
If only you had the common sense to back up, eh?To live, you have to lie
04-23-2010, 07:20 PM #10
Yeah I don't know, maybe they can get away with this BS all because of their stupid terms of sale that probably 1% of people read and millions spent on lawyers. The laws on terms of sale and usage agreements probably needs to be changed. Just seems like everyone is trying to rip you off lately... This really got to me, I think it was a $5 app, if it was $1 I would care so much. But when you are laid off and unemployment doesn't even cover your rent, $5 means a lot more, that's a meal at least... It's not like this app didn't use the same API when they first accepted it. This app was one of many that were removed for "using undocumented, private API’s". Although this app was a very useful, original and popular app I can understand that Apple would not allow it if that is the true reason. However it never should have been accepted in the first place, if they want total control over their market place, how can they refuse to refund your money when they approved it and profited off of many, many sales over a long time? Companies should realize that this kind of thing is only going to bring further action and push people away. Corporate USA has a complete lack of morality. Can I provide a service to someone or sell something and put in a multiple page terms of sale agreement that I am straight up going to rip them off and not provide the services or products? Then as long as I get them to click yes to it quickly so they can get on with their lives they have absolutely no way of recouping a thing? I don't think that would work for you or me, how does corporate America get away with this?
04-23-2010, 07:25 PM #11
Now to get back on track, yes, I do feel he should have continued to handle it instead of just left you out in the dark. Ah, so you just said you could easily do so, kinda like saying your the reason why we jailbreak which is reasonable. They should not have just looked at jailbreaking and assume he jailbroke and deny him service. If it is so that he just wanted to deny you and give up, I would agree, but I feel he was trying to help the best he could, cut a guy some slack, saying he would try to get you a refund. I'd feel like a dumbass responding saying that I can't because its against the terms I SHOULD know on the back of my head. Then he wanted to make up for it with music then be further embarrassed with the whole I don't buy music off iTunes thing. I can not tell whether the last message was giving the cold shoulder or he thought you were jailbroken or what, but that was the point that through me more on to your side.
04-23-2010, 07:26 PM #12
04-23-2010, 07:27 PM #13
04-23-2010, 07:43 PM #14
I said I dont eat ground beef, does that mean vegan? Um NO! I eat beef and many other meats, just not ground garbage of mystery meat...
Last edited by stasis; 04-23-2010 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
04-23-2010, 07:55 PM #15
Please keep it civil. The OP was expressing his experience.
04-23-2010, 07:59 PM #16
Exactly, it's not like I am making anything up, that is word for word how it went, make your own conclusion from it, I think it pretty much speaks for itself... I am not some Apple bashing fanboy looking for attention or to get on blogs, I would rather nobody know who I am... I have never had a bad experience with Apple before, which maybe is just because I never needed anything from them. I love their hardware, the quality is unlike any other, I am on my second iPhone and second MacBook.
Last edited by stasis; 04-23-2010 at 08:03 PM.
04-23-2010, 08:03 PM #17
04-23-2010, 08:04 PM #18
To answer your question, Yes, Apple can legally do this. A lawsuit is probably not going to happen, as no lawyer will fight Apple on this when EVERY end-user agreed to the T&C. Regardless of if you read it or just clicked "I agree", you still agreed to it.
I don't blame the guy for not giving you a refund. I would've banned your iTunes accounts for being a dipshit. Even after you're half-*** written rants, he still offered you some compensation. You turned your nose up at it.
Look at your responses, they look like they were written by a middle school student. "bull ****" looks really good when asking for support from a major company that owes you nothing. You are a customer, and if you don't like the products or service, nothing is stopping you from going to another company that will cater to you the way you want.
IIRC, everyone who gets a refund through the apple store gets Credit for iTunes.
04-23-2010, 08:11 PM #19
Last edited by stasis; 04-23-2010 at 08:11 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
04-23-2010, 08:18 PM #20