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  • Is Adobe Prepping Major Lawsuit Against Apple?



    If you thought Apple and Adobe had an icy relationship before, you haven't seen anything yet.

    There are rumors and rumblings across the web tonight that Adobe is putting the wheels in motion on what could prove to be a substantial lawsuit against Apple - the company that remains determined beyond words to keep Flash nowhere near their line of, well... everything.

    As a result of Apple's unshakable anti-Flash posturing, Adobe may be getting their ducks in a row on a legal course of action to claim a piece of the i-pie.

    According to the latest blog entry from Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols of IT World, Adobe's frustration multiplied exponentially when Apple suggested that Adobe Flash was, in effect, "not good enough" for the iPad. But the biggest blow to Adobe - and the reason the company may be interested in suing the pants off of Apple - came when Apple revised its iPhone SDK license to prevent developers from submitting programs that use cross-platform compilers.

    It seems Adobe has had enough. And if certain "sources" are to be believed, Apple could very well end up in court. Without question, there is more than just animus brewing within the walls of Adobe. There seems to be outright hatred by some at Adobe toward their former partners and colleagues at Apple. Still, Adobe is playing it cool for now and not spilling the beans about any potential legal action. At present, an Adobe spokesperson named Wiebke Lips simply says that "We are aware of the new SDK language and are looking into it."

    Of course, that language could also be code for: "Our lawyers are on their way over and we ain't talkin' until we know how many zeros to ask for."

    Image via digitalmediabuzz
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Is Adobe Prepping Major Lawsuit Against Apple? started by Michael Essany View original post
    Comments 108 Comments
    1. soulthoughts's Avatar
      soulthoughts -
      A monopoly isn't simply defined by the number of competing products. If that were the case then the EU wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on because along side IE, there is FF, Safari and Opera.

      A monopoly as defined by Milton Friedman, Nobel Prize Winner in economics is

      ...exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.
      Law is kind of like Statistics in that it's all about the interpretation.

      Am I saying that Apple has a monopoly? No, but a case sure could be made if argued properly. More to the point, often times legal action is not about winning and losing. It's about compromise because neither side wants to sit in court, spend potentially millions of dollars on litigation, risk consumer goodwill, and tarnish its image. Hence the existence of out of court settlements with no admittance of wrongdoing.

      Whoever gave the Ford motor in a Honda (or whatever was used in the example)....Honda wouldn't stop you from putting a Ford motor in their car. Do it and nothing will happen. Honda can say they won't let you swap a Ford motor before it rolls out of the factory. But if you want to put one in after you buy, have at it.

      What Apple is doing is not letting devs use Flash. They can say, 'No we won't allow Flash out of the box.' But they shouldn't be allowed to say, 'Even though it's in your hands now, you still can't have Flash.'
    1. bbplayer5's Avatar
      bbplayer5 -
      Quote Originally Posted by QWood13 View Post
      Adobe has no valid reason to sue Apple because of that code, and I doubt that they'll even last a minute in court
      Wow are you a lawyer? No? Shocking.
    1. mudrock1000's Avatar
      mudrock1000 -
      Quote Originally Posted by chuckiecheese View Post
      who cares...adobe flash sucks...sooner or later flash will be obsolete thanks to apple.
      Flash 10.1 vs HTML5 on Nexus One: Adobe still ahead | Android Community

      Yea...go Apple. There program is working SO much better.
      In all honesty though, Flash is probably the best thing going right now. I highly doubt the average person who develops flash is gong to switch to HTML5 or anything else ANYTIME soon because of Apple. As far as I can be concerned, Apple blew it with this one and most people are supporting him because Steve Jobs says so.

      But I fail to see what Adobe can sue Apple for. Patent infringements is the ONLY thing I can think of. And even then. I'm pretty curios to see how this one plays out. It is pretty ridiculous flash runtime was banned with the new sdk.
    1. Mes's Avatar
      Mes -
      Quote Originally Posted by soulthoughts View Post
      So many slippery slopes in this thread. My head hurts.
      Hahahaha. Thanks. I needed that

      I do wish Apple was a lot more friendly to their want-to-be-different consumer. I would think all the fanboys would have the biggest let-me-do-it-my-way voices. But no!! If Apple says so -- it must be true. They can live in their artificial world. For me, I look, research, test, and verify and research some more before I believe anyone!!! (especially dear Apple) .
    1. vindutch's Avatar
      vindutch -
      I think Apple are the babies here. Right now most of the world uses flash. Apple says flash is a CPU hog. So you know what Apple you could easily boost the processor on my iPad from 1g to a 1.6g ( or whatever it needs to be) to compensate for the power loss. I really don't care who wins the war Flash or Html I just want my iPhone and iPad to display web content. Admit it or not this is just another one of Steve Job's ego trips. When the day comes that HTML is the only way to view web content I will embrace it with open arms. Right now i need Flash. So I have an idea for Apple. They should sell an app at the app store for Flash. Who ever buys the app will assume all responsibility for the problems that Flash causes. So now Apple can get more money from selling that app. And if problems arise, they will not be held responsible for my CPU being hogged of power. Or if I get a virus or for what ever the reason why Steve hates flash. I would pay $50.00 right now for that app. And I'm sure another million people would too. So Apple just made another $50,000,000. I'm done.
    1. jaylen555's Avatar
      jaylen555 -
      oh i am so for this one if it becomes reality
    1. byah9091's Avatar
      byah9091 -
      wow
      adobe is being retarded
    1. Squid7085's Avatar
      Squid7085 -
      I say bring it. Adobe has nothing to ride on. Apple has every right to not include crappy closed code on their platform, and its not like Apple is being anti competitive, they have nothing to gain from HTML 5. They are pushing open standards, a practice that happens all the time. Adobe just knows that Apple has the power to be a threat to them, and they are paying for years of neglecting the Apple platforms. Apple owes Adobe nothing.
    1. cpkirkley's Avatar
      cpkirkley -
      Quote Originally Posted by QWood13 View Post
      @Luppin, you do realize that if Adobe pulled the plug on Macs, not only would Apple lose some of their market, butthey would too. And besides, I bet that Apple would just come up something just the same, maybe even better than CS5. So, Adobe AND Apple would lose their money. Why would you even suggest that Adobe do that???
      Fail.

      Apple would hurt ALOT more from than than Adobe would, People buy Macs SPECIFICALLY to use the adobe suite on them. But if Adobe pulls the plug, its not like they dont have other options, they just walk into a best buy, spend half of what they were planning to spend on the Apple, and guess what? They'd still be using the Adobe suite. The only money Adobe would lose is the time they've spend supporting existing products. Hell, going forward it would save them money. Only having to code for one operating system instead of two. It would be hilarious, because the people that already have macs for Design would either hawk their machines in order to go Windows, or youd see like a 40 percent increase in people EXCLUSIVELY using bootcamp to run Windows, which would only delay the mass exodus until each one found a proper replacement.

      Secondly, Apple would have to develop the software, succesfully market it to its... erm, 10 percent PC market share, convince the other 90 percent that its worth it to switch their licensing contracts. Then have those same converts spend thousands on converting their windows environments over to Macintosh.

      Lol, its a rumor, but don't be so arrogant. Apple is burning more bridges than the Nazi's did in WWII.
    1. Channan's Avatar
      Channan -
      I cant think of a reason they have to sue, but i hope they win and apple is forced to allow flash on he iphone and ipad. That would be amazing.
    1. cory's Avatar
      cory -
      I think apple would love it if adobe stopes developing for apple products. That means those loyal apple fans (like us) would have to use apple's software for that. Ever notice how much aperture is starting to work like Photoshop? Personally I think adobe did an unbeatable job at the entire cs4 suite, other then the flash. If there were no more Photoshop on my apple, it would be a hard choice for me to stay with apple. I'm a photographer by trade and use Photoshop like a second language. If apple is smart, they will keep things with adobe just civil enough to keep their products on the Mac platform, but still not have to use flash.

      Quote Originally Posted by wookiee2cu View Post
      I hope they do sue and I hope they win. Apple needs to be knocked off their high horse and come back to reality. The stance they take on controlling what happens to their products as well as how things are developed for their products is ridiculous. Like Apple claiming that jail braking your phone is illegalÖ give me a break. I paid full price (wasnít eligible for upgrade at the time) for the phone, itís mine, I own it and Iíll do what ever the hell I want to with it. Go Adobe, I hope you get paid big time!
      I though this issue was beaten to death quite a few times when the iPhone first came out.. The hardware is yours, the software isn't. This is stated in the agreement you skipped through when you agree to the software updates.

      Quote Originally Posted by desepticon View Post
      Absolutley. If Adobe dumps CS5 from the Mac Apple will just come out with their own, likley superior, product. If theres one thing Apple does well its taking other companies product ideas and making them better.
      I'm sorry, but I've used apple's version of Photoshop (aperture) and it doesn't hold a candle to it. Adobe has the best products hands down for media manipulation.
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Success.Is.Sweet View Post
      Has your head been up your *** this whole time? It's obvious that when Steve Jobs states that Flash is "buggy" and bad software, they have a grudge against it.

      The internet is apparently serious business to you.
      LOL! Just because someone thinks something is buggy doesn't mean they have a grudge against it....you're just insinuating that last part. Maybe you've had too much brainwashing?? You say the internet is serious business to me...haha, look at your reply! Lol! Just another reason to dismiss what you say.
    1. Meglomaniac's Avatar
      Meglomaniac -
      adobe is frustrated because apple showed with Iad how nice html 5 and other ways of creating flash like material can be.
      This just doesn't only say don't use flash also look how nice alternatives are out there that can give you the same result.
    1. Rob_Quads's Avatar
      Rob_Quads -
      Apple should release CS5 on the PC and say CS5 is coming out on mac 'soon'
    1. z3r01's Avatar
      z3r01 -
      Adobe: they can't do that judge they just can't

      judge: why ? It's not illegal

      adobe : I kno but it's just not fair (crosses hands and pouts)

      Adobe won't threaten to take any software away because apple won't let them have flash...it's not in their interest...apple won't loose, they will...apple sells macs without adobe pretty fine...
    1. cpkirkley's Avatar
      cpkirkley -
      Quote Originally Posted by z3r01 View Post
      Adobe: they can't do that judge they just can't

      judge: why ? It's not illegal

      adobe : I kno but it's just not fair (crosses hands and pouts)

      Adobe won't threaten to take any software away because apple won't let them have flash...it's not in their interest...apple won't loose, they will...apple sells macs without adobe pretty fine...
      I don't know if there are figures to back this (I'll edit the post if I find anything), but I'd be willing to wager that 40 percent of the DigiArt/GDesign demogrphic bought their macs SPECIFICALLY because of how well it played/plays with OSX. If you remove Adobe from the platform, you might as well remove them from the Apple User Base.

      Apple isnt letting Adobe have Flash, Adobe makes flash for all of the major OS's currently available. Apple is not letting US have flash. The Adobe suite will sell MILLIONS of licenses, regardless of Apples restriction of iPhone OS. Whether its on Mac or Windows is probably of little difference to them. Cutting Apple out of the pie would be like 15 percent of their overall revenue (and thats generous). Which they would make up by the increased sales from the Windows side. Then they'd gain more on top of that moving forward when they no longer have to support any of the previous software they've written for OSX. Thats important to remember when you're talking about who needs who.

      Watch the next round of Mac vs. PC commercials where the windows user is laughing while wearing an Adobe T-shirt. There would be no comeback because Aperture's progress has been based mostly on replicating Adobe's feature set. Great artists steal...
    1. z3r01's Avatar
      z3r01 -
      Well...final cut pro, protools HD , also reasons why the Mac has sold...adobe doesn't make Mac...they make software for it....without a Mac, they wouldn't ll their software...a lot of industry tool made before above like corral paint (I think it's called that) was their as well...so....no Mac no flash...no flash on iPhone/iPad , still Mac....
    1. cpkirkley's Avatar
      cpkirkley -
      Quote Originally Posted by z3r01 View Post
      Well...final cut pro, protools HD , also reasons why the Mac has sold...adobe doesn't make Mac...they make software for it....without a Mac, they wouldn't ll their software...a lot of industry tool made before above like corral paint (I think it's called that) was their as well...so....no Mac no flash...no flash on iPhone/iPad , still Mac....
      So youre not willing to concede that Adobe Suite leaving the mac platform hurts Apple in ANY way whatsoever?

      Notice that that you're not even sure of what that software was called (its Corel Suite). That in itself should tell you how big Adobe is. Its more than just individual installed user bases. Companies, universities, etc, have licenses with Adobe. Without the ability to run Adobe suite, those same companies lose a lot of their need to even consider bringing Macs onto their campuses and work environments. Note that since Adobe supports more than one operating system, this would not necessarily hurt adobe, because those companies would just buy more windows based PC's - and continue their contracts with Adobe.

      Apple software only supports Apple hardware. Therefore, less Macs in circulation AUTOMATICALLY means less Apple software sales.

      No software means less need of the machine equals less sales of Macs for enterprise purposes. If you think that doesn't hurt Apple, than you are incredibly out of touch with business reality.

      Edit- just realized this is my hundredth post. Rawr.
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by cory View Post
      I'm sorry, but I've used apple's version of Photoshop (aperture) and it doesn't hold a candle to it. Adobe has the best products hands down for media manipulation.
      You can always try this great product, and it's made only for Mac.
      Pixelmator

      Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Quads View Post
      Apple should release CS5 on the PC and say CS5 is coming out on mac 'soon'
      Nice to see the brain dead can still read a post even though they don't understand the facts

      Quote Originally Posted by cpkirkley View Post
      Apple isnt letting Adobe have Flash, Adobe makes flash for all of the major OS's currently available. Apple is not letting US have flash.
      Um, there is no version of flash for the iPhone champ. "Apple isn't letting Adobe have flash". What the hell is that??? Adobe writes, owns and licenses flash. You can have flash, just not on the iphone. There's plenty of choice out there. I don't want flash on my phone, and you should take a look at the phones that do run flash. It aint FLASH, so to speak. If Adobe really thought they could stuff Apple up, they should write a version for the iPhone and create a repo, and release it to the jailbreaking community. Fact is, they can't. They barely got flash for windows written. They have only one coder to write for Linux. Yeah, they really want to dominate the web, with crap and dangerous plugins. It's only a web plugin we're talking about people, not an OS. Geez, get over it. Flash on i devices, won't happen. Stop whining about it.
    1. awesomeSlayer's Avatar
      awesomeSlayer -
      And what is the point of Flash for iPhone? Flash sucks on Mac compared to Windows due to its structure and coding. Not only that, it might as well eat your RAM on your iPhone.