• Your favorite

    Apple

    ,

    iPhone

    ,

    iPad

    ,

    iOS

    ,
    Jailbreak
    , and
    Cydia
    site.
  • Is Adobe Prepping Major Lawsuit Against Apple?



    If you thought Apple and Adobe had an icy relationship before, you haven't seen anything yet.

    There are rumors and rumblings across the web tonight that Adobe is putting the wheels in motion on what could prove to be a substantial lawsuit against Apple - the company that remains determined beyond words to keep Flash nowhere near their line of, well... everything.

    As a result of Apple's unshakable anti-Flash posturing, Adobe may be getting their ducks in a row on a legal course of action to claim a piece of the i-pie.

    According to the latest blog entry from Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols of IT World, Adobe's frustration multiplied exponentially when Apple suggested that Adobe Flash was, in effect, "not good enough" for the iPad. But the biggest blow to Adobe - and the reason the company may be interested in suing the pants off of Apple - came when Apple revised its iPhone SDK license to prevent developers from submitting programs that use cross-platform compilers.

    It seems Adobe has had enough. And if certain "sources" are to be believed, Apple could very well end up in court. Without question, there is more than just animus brewing within the walls of Adobe. There seems to be outright hatred by some at Adobe toward their former partners and colleagues at Apple. Still, Adobe is playing it cool for now and not spilling the beans about any potential legal action. At present, an Adobe spokesperson named Wiebke Lips simply says that "We are aware of the new SDK language and are looking into it."

    Of course, that language could also be code for: "Our lawyers are on their way over and we ain't talkin' until we know how many zeros to ask for."

    Image via digitalmediabuzz
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Is Adobe Prepping Major Lawsuit Against Apple? started by Michael Essany View original post
    Comments 108 Comments
    1. politicalslug's Avatar
      politicalslug -
      There's no suit here. Adobe can't even pull the monopoly card (which is necessary for unfair discrimination) since Apple has only a tiny fraction of market share in each of its respective product categories. The closest they have to a monopoly is the iPod, and that's the old iPod which is physically incapable of supporting flash and which has seen its market share eroding with the rise of convergence devices like smart phones.

      Nothing to see here. Move along.
    1. CZroe's Avatar
      CZroe -
      To the people saying "Adobe couldn't win this," "Sue them for what?," and "The government can't get involved in private business dealings," here's a reality-check: "No cross-platform compilers" can be seen as an anti-competitive move whether targetted at Adobe or not. Squelching competition is a monopolostic practice, which is illegal. Even if it's different from MS' browser wars due to it not being an open platform lile Windows, the government CAN get involved and those harmed CAN sue for damages... if they can prove it. The programming side was not "closed" in that sense until this writing/restriction was added, which furthers the case. It's just like when MS "added" IE to Windows 95.
    1. TheDirtyDiddler's Avatar
      TheDirtyDiddler -
      Jeez, how can that even hold up in court?
    1. dougal22's Avatar
      dougal22 -
      Adobe should just defy Apple and release Flash through Cydia. That would show Apple.

      How dare Apple deny us flash on our iPhones.
    1. cookbenj's Avatar
      cookbenj -
      haha thats funny i wonder what the outcome will be?
    1. jrentzke's Avatar
      jrentzke -
      this is too funny:

      Twitpic - Share photos on Twitter
    1. nitin98's Avatar
      nitin98 -
      As long as idevices get flash I'm fine
    1. Winterboarder's Avatar
      Winterboarder -
      I like flash, and flash video players like youtube but there is a major problem with them. My Win Vista 32 bit. laptop burned out the video card while watching youtube. I bought a win7 64bit dell laptop and it has issues with flash plaers. The only time it crashes is when I play flash. Flash crashes, all the browsers and sometimes it crashes the sound card.
      Apple provides Qucktime for playing web movies. Why would they want flash crashing their product?

      Youtube belongs to Google who is moving on their turf

      The industry is moving toward consumption where everything is spoon-fed to the end user. Apple and Microsoft don't want anything to mess up with their delivery system. AAPL and MSFT have GOVT contracts, while Adobe doesn't "and are Canadian" so they will loose any judgment.

      This is a industry wide campaign against Flash.
    1. extremzocker's Avatar
      extremzocker -
      Quote Originally Posted by brianlg View Post
      Sorry, but I had to stop reading after that.. I'm sick of this rumor bs. Rumors aren't news.
      well, most of the news around here are rumors and knowing Apple, without them there wouldnt be much to talk about.
    1. klouud's Avatar
      klouud -
      Honestly I don't see a problem with an exclusive clause in Apple's App/Game policy - other companies have done it before.

      On another note - it almost seems like Apple has a vendetta out for Adobe! The reality is that on a Mac or PC you can't do anything without going to the Adobe site and loading up on their free downloads. Adobe products are pretty much a "must" when it comes to the digital world. I don't understand why Apple is fighting against Flash when it comes to their touch devices...

      We would all be happier people if our iPhones/Touches/iPads had flash support... and whats more - Adobe says that they have Flash ready to ship for those platforms!
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by ajjj08 View Post
      For all the people that are asking suing them for what, or the judge will just throw it out should really take a look at the laws against monoply.

      In economics, a monopoly exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it. Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods. The verb "monopolize" refers to the process by which a firm gains persistently greater market share than what is expected under perfect competition.

      Apple in my opinion is in possible violation of monopoly laws with their continuos ban on flash. I'm not saying that flash on the iphone or ipad is a good idea, I am only stating that Adobe MIGHT have a case.
      TOSH!!

      Then every phone provider that makes a deal with a manufacturer for sole use like AT&T/iPhone, would be in breach. In some countries like France and Australia, they have anti competitive legislation to prevent monopolies. Adobe run a monopoly in flash. Now they're face a real change in open standards, and they cry about it. In your dumb reckoning, Ford would be obliged to allow Toyota motors in their cars. Flash is a POC and doesn't warrant a place on the iPhone, besides, Adobe haven't written a version for the iPhone, so how can it be excluded if it does not exist in the first place???

      Quote Originally Posted by sziklassy View Post
      Wow... these are some of the densest replies I have seen to date. The lawsuit would have nothing to do with Apple not wanting to USE Flash. They are keeping everyone else from using it. It shouldn't be THEIR decision. Apple locking flash out = antitrust law issues. Simple as that.
      Any flash game can be ported using the iphone SDK. Yes it will have to be rewritten, but all other games have been ported well. There's nothing stopping that, opposed to a converter made by adobe. As for a version of Flash for iphone, it does not even exist. Adobe can't even make a fully functioning version for mobile phones now.

      I have an app that does not exist, but Apple won't allow my thought of an app on the iPhone. Damn, I just have to sue them. Great idea... daaaaaa, me smart!!

      Quote Originally Posted by Mes View Post
      For all the Apple 'new-bees' ......... a little Adobe/Apple history.

      Twenty plus years ago (during the PC/MS/NT revolution) Apple was almost dead. Apple tried, but had very little success getting into the corporate environment. The stock price dropped to 1 or 2 dollars. Had less than 1% market share. If anyone had a Mac, it had to be well justified. And yes, this was long before the iPod came around. The very few people who enjoyed a Mac were the graphics artists: aka Adobe Photoshop. Photoshop was (and still is) the standard, the best solution for graphics artists. It was Adobe that kept dear Apple from bankruptcy and survive the PC revolution. No question about it.

      This Adobe/Apple battle is just one more example of Apple loosing their way, forgetting where and how they grew up. Now that Apple is 'king of the road', everybody must bow down and kiss their royal axx.

      Adobe will win this battle --- and if we're lucky, Apple with become a bit more humble. Gosh I home so.

      Thank goodness someone is finally standing up to Apple and saying 'enough is enough'!!!!
      You left out the next bit of history with Adobe/Apple. Adobe teamed up with Microsoft and bought out Macromedia, who owned flash. At the time, Apple quicktime was the prime web plugin for video and audio streaming. Microsoft and Adobe ganged up to kill all media plugins by pushing windows 95/ IE out with flash, exclusively! It killed all other browsers and plugins bar one. Quicktime. Netscape died because of this move. 15 years of flash domination is about to come to an end and we have all these people cheering for the status quo. What's wrong with competition for open web development? Flash doesn't have to die if adobe would only learn to share the web and return it to open web plugin choice, although I did read recently they are allowing html5 playthru on the next version of flash. Why would Apple back a company that colluded to destroy it?
    1. fishbone's Avatar
      fishbone -
      Quote Originally Posted by ajjj08 View Post
      For all the people that are asking suing them for what, or the judge will just throw it out should really take a look at the laws against monoply.

      In economics, a monopoly exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it. Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods. The verb "monopolize" refers to the process by which a firm gains persistently greater market share than what is expected under perfect competition.

      Apple in my opinion is in possible violation of monopoly laws with their continuos ban on flash. I'm not saying that flash on the iphone or ipad is a good idea, I am only stating that Adobe MIGHT have a case.
      In fact, I think some people should give a better look at the very DEFINITION of a "monopoly".

      I'm curious, what "monopoly" does Apple holds? Of it's own products?

      Then again, if Flash is a fairly well adopted standard in web design, wouldn't Adobe fall into the same "monopoly practices" definition if it tries to push flash everywhere to avoid HTML5 adoption?
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by Success.Is.Sweet View Post


      Do you have any clue what you're talking about at all?
      I think this guy was meaning RAM not memory. Flash is a cpu hog and a drag on RAM. Considering there is no flash for iphone even made, the lite version made for RIM and Windows mobile isn't fully functioning because it would bog the devices into a chasm, and Apple won't allow that. If flash running on mac osx needs 500mb ram and at least 1Ghz of processor power, then anything on the iPhone would turn it into an anchor. Sorry, but flash written for osx architecture is crap and wouldn't work effectively even if it existed, but it doesn't.

      Quote Originally Posted by dougal22 View Post
      Adobe should just defy Apple and release Flash through Cydia. That would show Apple.

      How dare Apple deny us flash on our iPhones.
      Perhaps you'd better email adobe first and ask them to start writing it seeing as it does not even exist. If adobe were half as brave as they make out, they produce a version for the iphone and then call on the masses to hound apple. But it doesn't exist. Moot argument.
    1. quaine's Avatar
      quaine -
      What is Adobe going to cry because Apple is not accepting them. You guys are not good enough!!! Apple has succeed fine without flash. Stop crying and create your own phone and maybe one day you can get as high as the iPhone and iPad in sales and revenue.
    1. punjabi212's Avatar
      punjabi212 -
      Wonder if this rumor will turn out to be anything more than that....
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Success.Is.Sweet View Post
      Truth is, Apple just has a grudge against Flash and is going against the wishes of most of it's users (and brainwashing the rest, like Apple does about their devices) by not including it.
      It's statements like this that make me dismiss everything else you have to say...how do you know Apple has a grudge against flash? Did you ask them? Sounds like you have a grudge against Apple...is it because of their brainwashing...?
    1. cmwade77's Avatar
      cmwade77 -
      Actually, Adobe does have a pretty good case, at least here in the U.S.:
      • We have anti-trust laws, this is a clear violation, banning something that in no other way breaks the rules.
      • Apple is also violating anti-trust laws by saying you can only get apps through the app store. With a car you can legally buy after market items from any source and add them to the car and the manufacturer most honor the warranty on the car (of course they don't have to warrant the after market item or anything that it causes to have a problem). This is like saying I buy a new Ford and put in a radio at walmart, now the engine breaks down and Ford says that they won't honor the warranty, this isn't allowed. So Adobe could potentially sue Apple to officially allows apps from other sources and win as well.

      I am sure that there are other legal issues as well, but these are the ones that I can see.
    1. soulthoughts's Avatar
      soulthoughts -
      So many slippery slopes in this thread. My head hurts.
    1. NCMacMan's Avatar
      NCMacMan -
      No, no, no, and no! All of you who keep saying that Apple is a monopoly and is therefore in violation of anti-trust laws is very uninformed. Apple is not a monopoly in the marketplace. Apple has every right to be able to control it's products and what runs on them because there are many competing products out there that compete with Apple.
    1. wookiee2cu's Avatar
      wookiee2cu -
      I hope they do sue and I hope they win. Apple needs to be knocked off their high horse and come back to reality. The stance they take on controlling what happens to their products as well as how things are developed for their products is ridiculous. Like Apple claiming that jail braking your phone is illegalÖ give me a break. I paid full price (wasnít eligible for upgrade at the time) for the phone, itís mine, I own it and Iíll do what ever the hell I want to with it. Go Adobe, I hope you get paid big time!