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  • Jury Decided Samsung Violated Apple Patents After the First Day of Deliberation


    A few of jurors in the Apple v. Samsung case have started granting interviews, and insight into the Jury’s deliberation process.

    Perhaps most alarming is the fact the jurors claimed they knew Samsung was guilty after the first day of deliberations. Jury foreman Velvin Hogan and juror Manuel Ilagan in a CNET interview claimed it was “clear there was infringement.”

    "Well, there were several. The e-mails that went back and forth from Samsung execs about the Apple features that they should incorporate into their devices was pretty damning to me. And also, on the last day, they showed the pictures of the phones that Samsung made before the iPhone came out and ones that they made after the iPhone came out. Some of the Samsung executives they presented on video [testimony] from Korea -- I thought they were dodging the questions. They didn't answer one of them. They didn't help their cause." — Ilegan
    Judge Lucy Koh’s worries that the jury would be overwhelmed appear to have some merit depending on who you ask. If you ask the jurors the worries seem to have been unfounded as both Ilegan and Hogan claimed the decision wasn’t rushed and extremely deliberate despite the short 22 hours it took to reach a verdict.

    “We weren't impatient. We wanted to do the right thing, and not skip any evidence. I think we were thorough. We found for Apple because of the evidence they presented. It was clear there was infringement...

    Once you determine that Samsung violated the patents, it's easy to just go down those different [Samsung] products, because it was all the same. Like the trade dress -- once you determine Samsung violated the trade dress, the flat screen with the Bezel...then you go down the products to see if it had a bezel. But we took our time. We didn't rush.” — Ilegan
    The jury decided that Apple’s damage request was far too high, but they still wanted to send a message.

    "We didn't want to give carte blanche to a company, by any name, to infringe someone else's intellectual property.” — Hogan.

    However, Samsung's lawyers and a number of legal experts across the Internet have started raising questions about the Jury's deliberation process, and the actions of Jury foreman Hogan, who himself is a patent owner of what is basically a glorified DVR or Home Theater PC. Hogan's "expertise" prevented the rest of the jurors from going over a 100+ page instructional document on how to evaluate and determine compensation. From the juror's comments it appears that during deliberation the jury decided if a company violated the other's patent(s) before determining if the patent itself was valid, thereby negating the need to determine if it was violated or not.

    Most concerning though is Hogans comments that the jury wanted to "send a message." His comments imply the jury awarded punitive damages instead of compensatory. These oversights/errors could give Samsung's lawyers ammo during appeals and actually result in a successful motion to have the jury's ruling thrown out.

    Source: Macrumors, AppleInsider, GrokLaw
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Jury Decided Samsung Violated Apple Patents After the First Day of Deliberation started by Phillip Swanson View original post
    Comments 43 Comments
    1. ssjbrolly's Avatar
      ssjbrolly -
      From all the sites that have been posting regarding these cases from around the world it seems like apple copied Samsung then took over the project very fast and came up with their own designs and by then Samsung fell behind and as they proceeded they fell into in infringement. Even thought apple was found guilty of that, that's the only infringement they faced then followed by Samsung getting hit right after another. Well what can you say, apple got more money to blow and with more money you simple win the case....that's how I see it.
    1. Breezer23's Avatar
      Breezer23 -
      This is not a good thing for Apple when it comes to Appeal time. Not to mention the Head Juror made some pretty controversial comments as well. He was out to lose millions of this case made the notion that the software patent system is flawed.

      Jury of our peers is fantastic for Criminal defense but I'm not sure how it can possibly apply to such technical trials like this.

      This will get to the Supreme Court.

      Touchwiz was (still is but isn't a blatant iOS copy any more) a horrid Android Skinning. HTC Sense maybe bloated but it is beautiful to look at. If Judge Koh awards Triple Damages then we are all in trouble.

      I still have a hard time with the fact that most of the patents in this case (from both sides) were features that DO NOT drive sales. In fact, I'd argue they drove a sum total of ZERO device sells. I'd also like to see any damages awarded to phones that were not on AT&T at the time thrown out.
    1. TechnoUniversity's Avatar
      TechnoUniversity -
      Ok y'all, we must keep it civil now. We are getting out of hand hear.
    1. ByteArt's Avatar
      ByteArt -
      ya i cant believe that there is a jury involved, shouldn't this be a civil case??
    1. sammo123's Avatar
      sammo123 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Checksum47 View Post
      Capitalism is what makes the USA the terrible country it is. There is no doing anything for anyone else without thought of compensation. It is the exact opposite of Jesus's message. It is what will ultimately result in its downfall...
      What does Jesus have to do with America? I will answer that for you...NOTHING
    1. Dark_Ninja's Avatar
      Dark_Ninja -
      Quote Originally Posted by sammo123 View Post
      What does Jesus have to do with America? I will answer that for you...NOTHING
      Wrong bro! Our country was founded on Christianity, which is derived from Jesus Christ. Gettin off topic for a sec, why has it become an issue to be a Christian now, especially here in the last days ?

      Back in topic, this case did not need a jury. Most people have no idea about patents or technology to begin with. However idc I'm over this who's suing who crap, give me a great device with great software and I'm golden.
    1. Breezy215's Avatar
      Breezy215 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Nest View Post
      Did Apple kill your parents or something, Batman? Settle down.
      Lmao!!! They must have "danced with the devil by the pale moonlight..."
    1. Checksum47's Avatar
      Checksum47 -
      Quote Originally Posted by sammo123 View Post
      What does Jesus have to do with America? I will answer that for you...NOTHING
      Jesus and his overall message has to do with everyone. The whole idea of capitalism is just another word for greed. Oh sure, without Capitalism you wouldn't have certain things. Certain things people like... But you also wouldn't have people living in the streets, people going bankrupt because they got sick and cannot afford millions in medical bills because of the wonderful medical system that capitalism has created. Sure in ANY society people have to make money. But there is a difference between making money and screwing over anyone in your way at any cost. I dont care if you invented a cure for Aids, Cancer or anything else. No one should be able to make billions of dollars and live in mansions in every city while people are starving and living in ratholes that the rich like to call apartments. While people are expected to be able to live and provide for their family on 8 dollars an hour. Its Capitalism that has made such huge differences in wealth possible.
      Capitalism has created companies like Microsoft, Apple and many others. Who then in turn use their vast piles of wealth to smother out any competition. To stay on top.
      Dont get me wrong. I like Apple products. But they are ridiculously overpriced. And if they keep up this type of behavior there wont be much in the way of innovation because other companies will be afraid to develop anything even remotely like a phone with a screen. If you like buying the same phone but with a different finish year after year because they added one or two things to the OS then good for you...
    1. blwallace5's Avatar
      blwallace5 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Checksum47 View Post
      Jesus and his overall message has to do with everyone. The whole idea of capitalism is just another word for greed. Oh sure, without Capitalism you wouldn't have certain things. Certain things people like... But you also wouldn't have people living in the streets, people going bankrupt because they got sick and cannot afford millions in medical bills because of the wonderful medical system that capitalism has created. Sure in ANY society people have to make money. But there is a difference between making money and screwing over anyone in your way at any cost. I dont care if you invented a cure for Aids, Cancer or anything else. No one should be able to make billions of dollars and live in mansions in every city while people are starving and living in ratholes that the rich like to call apartments. While people are expected to be able to live and provide for their family on 8 dollars an hour. Its Capitalism that has made such huge differences in wealth possible.
      Capitalism has created companies like Microsoft, Apple and many others. Who then in turn use their vast piles of wealth to smother out any competition. To stay on top.
      Dont get me wrong. I like Apple products. But they are ridiculously overpriced. And if they keep up this type of behavior there wont be much in the way of innovation because other companies will be afraid to develop anything even remotely like a phone with a screen. If you like buying the same phone but with a different finish year after year because they added one or two things to the OS then good for you...
      Capitalism is not the downfall of our country, people with your attitude are. Without capitalism, you would have no medical system and most of us would be dead before 40.
    1. sputnik2000's Avatar
      sputnik2000 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Checksum47 View Post
      Jesus and his overall message has to do with everyone. The whole idea of capitalism is just another word for greed. Oh sure, without Capitalism you wouldn't have certain things. Certain things people like... But you also wouldn't have people living in the streets, people going bankrupt because they got sick and cannot afford millions in medical bills because of the wonderful medical system that capitalism has created. Sure in ANY society people have to make money. But there is a difference between making money and screwing over anyone in your way at any cost. I dont care if you invented a cure for Aids, Cancer or anything else. No one should be able to make billions of dollars and live in mansions in every city while people are starving and living in ratholes that the rich like to call apartments. While people are expected to be able to live and provide for their family on 8 dollars an hour. Its Capitalism that has made such huge differences in wealth possible.
      Capitalism has created companies like Microsoft, Apple and many others. Who then in turn use their vast piles of wealth to smother out any competition. To stay on top.
      Dont get me wrong. I like Apple products. But they are ridiculously overpriced. And if they keep up this type of behavior there wont be much in the way of innovation because other companies will be afraid to develop anything even remotely like a phone with a screen. If you like buying the same phone but with a different finish year after year because they added one or two things to the OS then good for you...
      +1
    1. mr117's Avatar
      mr117 -
      Whoa- major off-topic. Back on or please, moderator, lock this sucker up!!!!
    1. Nest's Avatar
      Nest -
      This thread turned into a Christian soap opera.
    1. garfielgato2's Avatar
      garfielgato2 -
      Quote Originally Posted by sammo123 View Post
      what does jesus have to do with america? I will answer that for you...nothing
      agree
    1. thazsar's Avatar
      thazsar -
      Quote Originally Posted by garfielgato2 View Post
      agree
      Off Topic:
      I guess that's why the U.S. currency says 'In God We Trust' because it has nothing to do w/ Jesus and/or Christianity.

      ....Brilliant....

      You guys amaze me more and more everyday!
    1. Anonymous's Avatar
      Anonymous -
      Jesus! Apple! Android! Google! Capitalism! Rich people! Poor people! Potato!

      You guys sound ridiculous.
    1. thazsar's Avatar
      thazsar -
      Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
      Jesus! Apple! Android! Google! Capitalism! Rich people! Poor people! Potato!

      You guys sound ridiculous.
      Hahahahaha!!!
    1. hank197857's Avatar
      hank197857 -
      1. obviously, one doesn't need to be a genius or take more than a minute to see that samsung infringed on apple's patents.
      2. the internet was not created by capitalism, but by the u.s. army, which feeds off the public teat, both of which i am a part.
      3. i repeat: comments longer than one.point.five inches should be deleted.
    1. mr117's Avatar
      mr117 -
      I heard that Jesus uses an iPhone. And he's a Commie.

      Give it up, guys, this thread has been hijacked by escapees from the asylum of irrationality. All we can hope is that they return there, and keep their irrationality bottled up and away from the rest of the sentient beings who favor rational thought and KEEPING ON THE FREAKING TOPIC!!!
    1. domenicp's Avatar
      domenicp -
      Quote Originally Posted by mr117 View Post
      I heard that Jesus uses an iPhone. And he's a Commie.

      Give it up, guys, this thread has been hijacked by escapees from the asylum of irrationality. All we can hope is that they return there, and keep their irrationality bottled up and away from the rest of the sentient beings who favor rational thought and KEEPING ON THE FREAKING TOPIC!!!
      +1
    1. r17019's Avatar
      r17019 -
      I just wish the guys who come up with the tweaks for jailbroken devices would (if they could, I am unsure as to how exactly the system works) patent the things (tweaks etc.) that make the iPhone/ iPad so good to use that always seem to find their way into future iOS updates so at least they could get the credit for the innovation and ideas that apple is always claiming as their own.