• Your favorite

    Apple

    ,

    iPhone

    ,

    iPad

    ,

    iOS

    ,
    Jailbreak
    , and
    Cydia
    site.
  • Samsung: Apple Wouldn't Have Sold a Single iPhone Without Our Technology


    After Apple demanded that Samsung pay $2.5 billion for patent infringement, Samsung retaliated by arguing that its Cupertino rival “could not have sold a single iPhone without the benefit of Samsung’s patented technology.” In a recent brief filed to the courts this week, Samsung points to its more than two decades of cellphone research and accuses Apple of hypocrisy, copying design concepts from Sony. Samsung also points towards evidence from 2006, countering Apple’s suggestions that the original iPhone marked a huge change in the Korean firm’s design approach. According to the Samsung filing:

    Apple‘s own internal documents show this. In February 2006, before the claimed iPhone design was conceived of, Apple executive Tony Fadell circulated a news article that contained an interview of a Sony designer to Steve Jobs, Jonathan Ive and others. In the article, the Sony designer discussed Sony portable electronic device designs that lacked “excessive ornamentation” such as buttons, fit in the hand, were “square with a screen” and had “corners [which] have been rounded out.
    As for Apple’s evidence which suggests that Samsung made a complete design switch hen the iPhone was launched, Samsung doesn’t seem to take too kindly to it. The company insists that “prior to the iPhone’s announcement January 2007, Samsung was already developing numerous products and models with the same design features that Apple now claims were copied from the iPhone.” An image shared by AllThingsD shares Apple’s point of view on this stance.



    According to the Samsung filing:

    In the summer of 2006, Samsung began designing its next generation of mobile phones, based on the market trend of ever-increasing screen size” Samsung continues. “At that time, Samsung‘s designers envisioned a basic design: a simple, rounded rectangular body dominated by a display screen with a single physical button on the face … [as] documents confirm, Samsung independently developed the allegedly copied design features months before Apple had even announced the iPhone. It did not switch its design direction because of the iPhone.
    Samsung even went as far as saying that it was working on a grid-icon GUI back in the summer and fall of 2006 as well, sharing concepts from the time. It continued this portion of the argument by concluding that “contrary to Apple‘s cherry-picked “pre” and “post” iPhone choices of Samsung‘s phones, Samsung designed and developed large screen smartphones before the iPhone as well as bar type phones, sliders, and folder phones.” Samsung also stated the following:

    Apple relied heavily on Samsung’s technology to enter the telecommunications space. Samsung supplies the flash memory, main memory, and application processor for the iPhone. Apple also uses patented Samsung technology that it has not paid for. This includes standards-essential technology required for Apple‘s products to interact with products from other manufacturers, and several device features that Samsung developed for use in its products.
    The South Korean electronics maker ended its argument by saying that “Samsung does not need or want to copy.” The argument between the two tech giants is far from over as of right now but hopefully the court will help reach a decision so innovation in the industry can continue at a normal pace.

    Source: AllThingsD, The Wall Street Journal via BGR
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Samsung: Apple Wouldn't Have Sold a Single iPhone Without Our Technology started by Akshay Masand View original post
    Comments 52 Comments
    1. thatboy12345's Avatar
      thatboy12345 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Stefman_R View Post
      What about the iPad prototype from 2001? The look of the iPhone came from shrinking that design to a smaller form factor.
      I agree just the form was altered a little from just have a completely squared phone

      Quote Originally Posted by xXR3H@NXx. View Post
      Samsung does have a point but after all this time they mention? Wtf? Like you idiots could've sued apple when you guys noticed that they copied. Then the idiots mention it when apple sues them then they mention it. Stupid Samsung.
      They probably want to wait until the iPhone gets popular with the sales they have brought in and consumer anticipation to mention so when so go high for it they sue with proof, get money from Apple and be a happy company
    1. kyphur's Avatar
      kyphur -
      I guess next apple will try to shutdown ALL tables because the iPad was the first successful table?

      Seriously, look at the first few generations of Windows Mobile phones. They were naturally evolving in the direction of larger screens, fewer & fewer physical buttons, popup soft keyboard etc.

      iDevices are simply a convergence of a few different other devices, as they say "There is nothing new under the sun."

      As much as I like my iDevices I really wish Apple would just put on thier big girl panties and concentrate on bringing us the BEST instead of trying to be the ONLY by sueing competitors into extinction.
    1. bish0p34's Avatar
      bish0p34 -
      The way I read it is that everybody seemed to be going after the same approach....Sony, Apple, and Samsung. A rectangular prone with rounded edges and a singular button. Not too surprising as everyone wanted to get away from the Palm/RIM design of a qwerty keyboard.

      Yet somehow Apple gets patents for simplistic designs and functions that other people have had for years (local search). Oh well
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by NakedFaerie View Post
      Looks like the tiger is about to get a bite taken out of its ***.
      I hope Samsung go full on and sue Apple for all their stolen designs and losses.
      Apple NEED someone to sue them and win. I hope they sue for billions and make Apple go broke. Then hopefully we will get a good iPhone after that happens as its not happening now.
      I can predict the next iPhone will be a piece of crap compared to a Galaxy S2 as the Galaxy S1 kicks *** over the iPhone 4S and the Galaxy S3 is so far advanced than any iPhone on the market its in a class of its own.

      I"m not a fanboy at all. I do like the iPhone after its jailbroken and heavily modded but the Android phones are better stock compared to a stock iPhone.
      Fandroid......

      There's no way Apple got the iPhone together that quickly and started selling it before Samsung's supposed, "new phone's" came out. Samsung can keep fighting but I don't think it'll go the direction they want it to. These days..who knows though!
    1. LivesForJihad's Avatar
      LivesForJihad -
      I hate to be "THAT GUY" but Samsung does have a point - there would be no iPhone had it not been for Samsung. Almost all of the hardware used in the iPhone 2 / 3G / 3GS models were made by Samsung. iPhone 4 saw a decline in that number, but Samsung still supplied roughly a quarter of the parts. Smartphones existed before the iPhone. Apple didn't invent something new.

      Apple seems far too comfortable biting the hand that feeds it. They patent everything, sue everyone, and want to control the market.

      Hey Apple...why don't you take your own advice and THINK DIFFERENTLY! You are driving people away with your endless lawsuits. They drove me away, that is for sure.

      Face it Apple...in an era of standardization and customer expectations...some things, like color, shape, and functionality cannot be patent. Stop trying to patent the door and focus on innovation. If you can't stand the heat that Android brings...tough. Apple can curl up and die.
    1. aidanharris's Avatar
      aidanharris -
      Apple brought out the first multi-touch phone and now every phone (every touchscreen phone) has multi-touch technology of some sort. What's that tell you?
    1. thatboy12345's Avatar
      thatboy12345 -
      Apple didn't invent something new.

      They just re-invent something old

      Quote Originally Posted by LivesForJihad View Post
      I hate to be "THAT GUY" but Samsung does have a point - there would be no iPhone had it not been for Samsung. Almost all of the hardware used in the iPhone 2 / 3G / 3GS models were made by Samsung. iPhone 4 saw a decline in that number, but Samsung still supplied roughly a quarter of the parts. Smartphones existed before the iPhone. Apple didn't invent something new.

      Apple seems far too comfortable biting the hand that feeds it. They patent everything, sue everyone, and want to control the market.

      Hey Apple...why don't you take your own advice and THINK DIFFERENTLY! You are driving people away with your endless lawsuits. They drove me away, that is for sure.

      Face it Apple...in an era of standardization and customer expectations...some things, like color, shape, and functionality cannot be patent. Stop trying to patent the door and focus on innovation. If you can't stand the heat that Android brings...tough. Apple can curl up and die.
      They just re-invented something new
    1. mori's Avatar
      mori -
      Quote Originally Posted by LivesForJihad View Post
      I hate to be "THAT GUY" but Samsung does have a point - there would be no iPhone had it not been for Samsung. Almost all of the hardware used in the iPhone 2 / 3G / 3GS models were made by Samsung. iPhone 4 saw a decline in that number, but Samsung still supplied roughly a quarter of the parts. Smartphones existed before the iPhone. Apple didn't invent something new.

      Apple seems far too comfortable biting the hand that feeds it. They patent everything, sue everyone, and want to control the market.

      Hey Apple...why don't you take your own advice and THINK DIFFERENTLY! You are driving people away with your endless lawsuits. They drove me away, that is for sure.

      Face it Apple...in an era of standardization and customer expectations...some things, like color, shape, and functionality cannot be patent. Stop trying to patent the door and focus on innovation. If you can't stand the heat that Android brings...tough. Apple can curl up and die.

      actually from everything I had read, and steves jobs many books and documentaries, apple its ok with competition, but they don't like someone taking they design, and calling it competition.

      its plain and simple , I had have every iphone since 07 and when the G1 came out I say it right away,,, (whats that an iphone wanna be) by the looks. most of you guys talking bout oh apple doesn't want competition etc etc,,, no what apple doesn't want its theft and IF u owned a multy billion corporation , neither would u.

      I will go as far as to say,, that SINCE Samsung by they own admition made MOST of the iphones parts, they stared to make plans to out fit they *at the time G1) cause they liked the idea that apple had, most of you don't seem to remember but the GOOGLE phone was to come out before the apple phone, then it was postponed , and a few months after iphone they came out with the G1. for all of u that like using car example I got this one for u (not car)

      YOU and I live together, all of a sudden my watch goes missing,, and a month later I see u wearing the SAME watch, what do u think im gonna do?,, oh yes, I dint see u taking it, but u had motive,appourtunity , and time, u could denied it by tellin gme that u got me a job and with out it I wouldn't be able to buy that watch, you can even say that u were planning on getting a watch soon, but guess what,, at the end of the day,, you stole my watch and i will get it back.


      if apple ever read this: use all the patents you won, and ask for the CURRENT and past androids to be removed from the market, till the day they come up with they own ideas. and COMPETE, do not sell them a license to use it,
      as STEVE JOBS sayd: I will spend apples 40$ billion bank to bring android (google) down for what they done.
      make it happened.
    1. MaStA819's Avatar
      MaStA819 -
      Someone please show me what a smart phone should look like that isn't "copying" the iPhone. The rectangle was used for cell phones ever since I had my first one. The color black has also been used for cell phones for a very long time. Just like the tablet debate. How the hell do you want a phone that isn't an iPhone to look exactly? Do you expect them to make a triangular pink phone just to make Apple happy? That new Galaxy Tab looks nothing like the iPad and Apple still sues about it. I think they are just mad because Samsung released a smaller tablet before them and is going to get first dibs at users looking for a smaller tablet to use.
    1. RyoSaeba's Avatar
      RyoSaeba -
      Quote Originally Posted by LivesForJihad View Post
      I hate to be "THAT GUY" but Samsung does have a point - there would be no iPhone had it not been for Samsung. Almost all of the hardware used in the iPhone 2 / 3G / 3GS models were made by Samsung. iPhone 4 saw a decline in that number, but Samsung still supplied roughly a quarter of the parts. Smartphones existed before the iPhone. Apple didn't invent something new... Blah blah blah
      You win the most ignorant post of the day! If Samsung didn't provide the parts, someone else will. Can you even name ONE part that Samsung put into the iPhone that another company can't produce?

      Here's what Apple did: Print out a spec sheet for a CPU and memory. Preset said sheet to many manufactures. Whoever has the lowest bid wins. Guess what, Samsung was the lowest bidder. This was probably due to Samsung already having most of the equipment to produce those chips. It is certainly NOT because they were the only ones who can build them. Samsung made more money from Apple then selling laggy Galaxy phones. THAT's why iPhones used Samsung parts. And since it was probably a contract deal, it lasted a few years before the contract expires. I'd be really surprised if there are any Samsung parts in the next iPhone.
    1. Xiao Bing's Avatar
      Xiao Bing -
      Quote Originally Posted by Norb View Post
      Wow so Apple managed to steal all that hardware from Samsung and did not ever pay a dime?! What? They made an agreement where Samsung made a profit? I'm confused... So you're saying Samsung could have told them to find another supplier? So what is the problem here?

      It's a bit different to take someone's ideas and not pay a thing vs paying someone for a product, service or idea...

      Apple needs to find a better company to deal with then shady *** Samsung. Just because you make processors and memory for phones does not mean you own the phones that use the processors. ******* ridiculous company that sounds like something from a mobster movie and not a company with any type of ethics.
      Agree!

      Quote Originally Posted by mori View Post
      actually from everything I had read, and steves jobs many books and documentaries, apple its ok with competition, but they don't like someone taking they design, and calling it competition.

      its plain and simple , I had have every iphone since 07 and when the G1 came out I say it right away,,, (whats that an iphone wanna be) by the looks. most of you guys talking bout oh apple doesn't want competition etc etc,,, no what apple doesn't want its theft and IF u owned a multy billion corporation , neither would u.

      I will go as far as to say,, that SINCE Samsung by they own admition made MOST of the iphones parts, they stared to make plans to out fit they *at the time G1) cause they liked the idea that apple had, most of you don't seem to remember but the GOOGLE phone was to come out before the apple phone, then it was postponed , and a few months after iphone they came out with the G1. for all of u that like using car example I got this one for u (not car)

      YOU and I live together, all of a sudden my watch goes missing,, and a month later I see u wearing the SAME watch, what do u think im gonna do?,, oh yes, I dint see u taking it, but u had motive,appourtunity , and time, u could denied it by tellin gme that u got me a job and with out it I wouldn't be able to buy that watch, you can even say that u were planning on getting a watch soon, but guess what,, at the end of the day,, you stole my watch and i will get it back.


      if apple ever read this: use all the patents you won, and ask for the CURRENT and past androids to be removed from the market, till the day they come up with they own ideas. and COMPETE, do not sell them a license to use it,
      as STEVE JOBS sayd: I will spend apples 40$ billion bank to bring android (google) down for what they done.
      make it happened.

      I wouldn't have said it better! This is a very well thought of comment. I wish more people would they about this case before speaking out
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      Quote Originally Posted by RyoSaeba View Post
      You win the most ignorant post of the day! If Samsung didn't provide the parts, someone else will. Can you even name ONE part that Samsung put into the iPhone that another company can't produce?
      Samsung have patents on hardware parts like LCD, so yes it is possible that Apple can not get it from other sources. I do not have time to waste to research the patents and it is plausible that only Samsung can produce the required parts for Apple AT THAT TIME because it must meet Apple's criteria (i.e. size, shape etc)

      It is very likely that what Samsung said is true about Apple copied Sony. There was an article where Steve Jobs went to Sony factory and got the first Walkman, and how Jobs was excited to learned about Sony's production ability as well as praised Sony's products form and function.

      If anything Samsung copied LG Prada since it is also a Korean company, which is a phone that came out first and the one iPhone resembles. Everything else Samsung claimed is plausible because what all portable device aspire to be is an actual full size computer.
    1. soti2009's Avatar
      soti2009 -
      Quote Originally Posted by mori View Post
      actually from everything I had read, and steves jobs many books and documentaries, apple its ok with competition, but they don't like someone taking they design, and calling it competition.

      its plain and simple , I had have every iphone since 07 and when the G1 came out I say it right away,,, (whats that an iphone wanna be) by the looks. most of you guys talking bout oh apple doesn't want competition etc etc,,, no what apple doesn't want its theft and IF u owned a multy billion corporation , neither would u.

      I will go as far as to say,, that SINCE Samsung by they own admition made MOST of the iphones parts, they stared to make plans to out fit they *at the time G1) cause they liked the idea that apple had, most of you don't seem to remember but the GOOGLE phone was to come out before the apple phone, then it was postponed , and a few months after iphone they came out with the G1. for all of u that like using car example I got this one for u (not car)

      YOU and I live together, all of a sudden my watch goes missing,, and a month later I see u wearing the SAME watch, what do u think im gonna do?,, oh yes, I dint see u taking it, but u had motive,appourtunity , and time, u could denied it by tellin gme that u got me a job and with out it I wouldn't be able to buy that watch, you can even say that u were planning on getting a watch soon, but guess what,, at the end of the day,, you stole my watch and i will get it back.


      if apple ever read this: use all the patents you won, and ask for the CURRENT and past androids to be removed from the market, till the day they come up with they own ideas. and COMPETE, do not sell them a license to use it,
      as STEVE JOBS sayd: I will spend apples 40$ billion bank to bring android (google) down for what they done.
      make it happened.
      wow!! what a powerful comment .. +1
    1. scroogelives's Avatar
      scroogelives -
      Quote Originally Posted by PokemonDesigner View Post
      Samsung is the main provider of phone parts to all major phone companies so apple really shouldn't be suing them so much.
      And possibly one of the reason Samsung is being like this is they see apple changing its ga,e plan and buy up small company's that make parts that will allow them to drop Samsung and others!! Just my thoughts though! Do think they both should just agree to disagree though
    1. Lohand's Avatar
      Lohand -
      Wait, wait, wait! Something is wrong with the picture above:
      Attachment 602256
      Ok, that otta do it!

      LG, Samsung (and Sony) was developing next gen handset designs while Apple was playing tiddly-winks with Motorola creating the Rokr. I'm on the inside so I know but anyone can do a little research to cut through all the fog. Sayin...
    1. MaStA819's Avatar
      MaStA819 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Lohand View Post
      Wait, wait, wait! Something is wrong with the picture above:
      Attachment 602256
      Ok, that otta do it!

      LG, Samsung (and Sony) was developing next gen handset designs while Apple was playing tiddly-winks with Motorola creating the Rokr. I'm on the inside so I know but anyone can do a little research to cut through all the fog. Sayin...
      Nicely done!
    1. Rokesomesmeefer's Avatar
      Rokesomesmeefer -
      Quote Originally Posted by mori View Post
      actually from everything I had read, and steves jobs many books and documentaries, apple its ok with competition, but they don't like someone taking they design, and calling it competition.
      Clearly everything you've read is Apple-biased nonsense. Apple does not like competition - NO company likes competition.

      Quote Originally Posted by mori View Post
      its plain and simple , I had have every iphone since 07 and when the G1 came out I say it right away,,, (whats that an iphone wanna be) by the looks. most of you guys talking bout oh apple doesn't want competition etc etc,,, no what apple doesn't want its theft and IF u owned a multy billion corporation , neither would u.
      If you thought the G1 looked like an iPhone wannabe then you seriously need to get your eyesight checked.

      Quote Originally Posted by mori View Post
      I will go as far as to say,, that SINCE Samsung by they own admition made MOST of the iphones parts, they stared to make plans to out fit they *at the time G1) cause they liked the idea that apple had, most of you don't seem to remember but the GOOGLE phone was to come out before the apple phone, then it was postponed , and a few months after iphone they came out with the G1. for all of u that like using car example I got this one for u (not car)
      So you're saying that the G1 was completely redesigned in just a "few months" to be an iPhone rip-off? You mean for us to believe that Google had the R&D and manufacturing prowess at that time to pull that off? Are you insane or just an idiot?

      Quote Originally Posted by mori View Post
      YOU and I live together, all of a sudden my watch goes missing,, and a month later I see u wearing the SAME watch, what do u think im gonna do?,, oh yes, I dint see u taking it, but u had motive,appourtunity , and time, u could denied it by tellin gme that u got me a job and with out it I wouldn't be able to buy that watch, you can even say that u were planning on getting a watch soon, but guess what,, at the end of the day,, you stole my watch and i will get it back.
      So by your analogy, Samsung stole iPhones and sold them as Samsung phones. Analogy fail.

      Quote Originally Posted by mori View Post
      if apple ever read this: use all the patents you won, and ask for the CURRENT and past androids to be removed from the market, till the day they come up with they own ideas. and COMPETE, do not sell them a license to use it,
      as STEVE JOBS sayd: I will spend apples 40$ billion bank to bring android (google) down for what they done.
      make it happened.
      If Steve Jobs had even attempted to spend $40 billion on getting rid of Android, he would have been removed from the position of CEO in a flash. It is not in the interest of shareholders to spend billions of dollars on a frivolous attempt to rid the market of the competition.
    1. RyoSaeba's Avatar
      RyoSaeba -
      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      Samsung have patents on hardware parts like LCD, so yes it is possible that Apple can not get it from other sources. I do not have time to waste to research the patents and it is plausible that only Samsung can produce the required parts for Apple AT THAT TIME because it must meet Apple's criteria (i.e. size, shape etc)
      You have to understand, this works both ways. While Samsung MIGHT have been the only company capable of making the parts, it was not because they have some "secret" sauce that no one has. It was ONLY because they were the only one who have the ability to meet the quantity demands while keeping the same quality. Remember, Apple designed the chips, especially the CPU's. Samsung only followed directions and build them. What Samsung could do that no one else could was make them fast, and make them cheap.

      Put it this way, if there were no Samsung, Apple could of just easily went to another company. The quality of the chips will be the same but the time it takes to make the millions they needed will simply took longer, and may be more expensive.

      Why is Samsung still working with Apple you ask? Because they make billions off them! It is said that Samsung invested 2+ billion on a new factory and equipment just to pump out these chips for Apple! So just imagine how much Samsung is making off Apple. Without Apple, Samsung will still be this company known for only making TV's. They wouldn't have the money for R&D to make the Galaxy phones.

      Let's face it, everything Android came AFTER the iPhone. If Android was so great and didn't copy iOS, then why wasn't it released before iOS? This goes for the Samsung phones as well. They can say as much as they want it was in development before blah blah blah but if it really was, there would be hard solid proof. Without iPhone, there would be no Android or Galaxy phones. This is fact!
    1. pyroemaniac's Avatar
      pyroemaniac -
      I'm going to keep this short and sweet, all phone companies copy other phone companies. As is with any other product, once someone creates a product out of an idea said product must then be used as a basis for the competition to compete.

      Competition is a good thing because it keeps innovation at its highest when you have to fight for superiority. But in the end everything is based on another idea that has already been thought. For all the fan boys of apple do you really think that iOS 5's notification center is actually "new" and "innovative" as apple announced it? No. It is a blatant copy of androids very own notification system that was implemented years before iOS 5. Now don't think I've forgotten about the android fan boys, androids original lock screen is in fact a slightly crappier version of the iPhones slide to unlock feature.

      Now of course there is plenty more copying on both sides and other OS's as well but i think one example each will be sufficient for arguments sake. One thing i would like to point out is the home screen layout of both OS's is seen in many earlier, granted not multi touch phones. So before you get all defensive for a company that doesn't really care to much about you yourself but the money you have. Try and think about it from both perspectives and also realise that all of this suing and patenting is a actually hurting you, the consumer.

      Guess i didn't keep it as short and sweet as i thought...
    1. RyoSaeba's Avatar
      RyoSaeba -
      Quote Originally Posted by pyroemaniac View Post
      For all the fan boys of apple do you really think that iOS 5's notification center is actually "new" and "innovative" as apple announced it? No. It is a blatant copy of androids very own notification system that was implemented years before iOS 5.
      IIRC, the notification center was actually inspired by a jailbreaker who released a jailbreak for iOS 4 that modified the pop up badges. And Apple hired that developer to work on iOS 5's notification center.