• Your favorite

    Apple

    ,

    iPhone

    ,

    iPad

    ,

    iOS

    ,
    Jailbreak
    , and
    Cydia
    site.
  • Thousands Sign iPad Anti-DRM Petition


    Supporters of free software picketed the iPad launch last month, designating the Yerba Buena Center For Arts as an "Apple Restriction Zone." The Free Software Foundation was protesting Apple's ongoing efforts to control what can run on its devices through restrictive digital rights management (DRM) and a closed operating system. The online petition set up at the event has swelled to over eight thousand signatures, and the FSF sent off the first five thousand as a postcard to Steve Jobs.

    The Defective by Design campaign, organized by the FSF, was successful in pressuring Apple to remove all DRM restrictions from music on iTunes. John Sullivan from the FSF said at the iPad launch that his group wanted "to send the same message about the other restrictions Apple is imposing on software, e-books, and movies." Sullivan cast aspersions on Apple's claims that the company supports creative expression. "If Jobs and Apple are actually committed to creativity, freedom, and individuality," he said, "they should prove it by eliminating the restrictions that make creativity and freedom illegal," he said. According to FSF director Peter Brown, Apple's shift from the open model of current computers to the closed model of the iPhone OS creates a dangerous precedent for the future of computing. "Your computer should be yours to control," he said. "By imposing such restrictions on users, Steve Jobs is building a legacy that endangers our freedom for his profits."

    The FSF pointed out two main categories in which the iPhone/iPod/iPad model was overly restrictive:
    • All media in the iTunes store (with the one exception of music) is wrapped in Apple’s DRM. That means films, TV shows, movies and audiobooks (NB: books are in an open format ePub) are locked to Apple’s platform, taking away your right to share.
    • All applications must be signed by Apple if they are to run, an unprecedented level of control for a general purpose computer. On top of this, Apple can push updates to the device over its wireless connection, letting them add or remove capabilities at any time.
    The petition, which describes the iPad as "a computer that will never belong to its owner," is up to 8,800 signatures as of this writing. The text is available at the DefectivebyDesign website.

    image via Free Software Foundation
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Thousands Sign iPad Anti-DRM Petition started by Paul Daniel Ash View original post
    Comments 93 Comments
    1. CaptainChaos's Avatar
      CaptainChaos -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      No you haven't. They wouldn't have bought whatever you were selling anyway. It's an absolute joke to say that you "lost" money due to piracy. You would have never made that money in the first place.

      Want to know how you won't feel the effects of piracy? Make something worth paying for.
      Wow. Nice little bubble you are living in there. Let's take photoshop or even microsoft office as examples...how many pirated copies are out there? Office at $600 a pop adds up quickly to lost revenues. Make it impossible to steal something worth paying for...that is what DRM lobbyists are attempting.
    1. Melech518's Avatar
      Melech518 -
      Even a Pickle has more fans than this petition has signatures!
      Can this pickle get more fans than Nickleback? | Facebook
    1. Happy Noodle Boy's Avatar
      Happy Noodle Boy -
      You're delusional if you believe piracy has no effect whatsoever on lost revenue. Whether its bad press, people wanting to save a buck, piracy does affect sales in some shape or form.

      The worst part about piracy is how instead of being treated as a crime, people have the nerve to blame the companies who make said products and point at DRM or whatever minor aspect of the prodct they don't like as if it gives them the right to take the rest. Kids nowadays are introduced to the internet as this "anything and everything you want is here and you don't have to pay a cent, ever!" miracle place of wonders. It has completely and catastrophically devalued digital property as there's no physical form to it.

      Since it doesn't exist, surely you can't be punished for stealing it! It's absolutely idiotic and one of the reasons I'm for stricter regulations on the internet because at this rate it's only going to get worse as people get more used to the idea of basically not paying for anything online.

      Damn you Napster, you started all of this!
    1. Imahottguy's Avatar
      Imahottguy -
      Lawlz, really? Wow. So there are like 8,000 people out there that honestly believe that an online petition is going to do anything. I can't fully believe that some faggy group took credit for mms. Thank you? hahaha. BTW: My mms STILL doesn't work. So sign my petition! Don't nuke our imaginations brah!
    1. feidhlim1986's Avatar
      feidhlim1986 -
      My buddy has a modded Xbox360, if he didnt have it modded then he would pay for his games, but he can now get them for free so he doesnt pay......so all the games he downloads do equal a loss of a sale for microsoft or whoever. These are all games he would pay for if his 360 wasnt modded, they arent just random games he wouldnt ever buy.
      Piracy = Loss of Revenue FACT!
    1. Doppler's Avatar
      Doppler -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      No you haven't. They wouldn't have bought whatever you were selling anyway. It's an absolute joke to say that you "lost" money due to piracy. You would have never made that money in the first place.

      Want to know how you won't feel the effects of piracy? Make something worth paying for.
      If they are using it and DIDN'T pay for it. That's money out of MY pocket that supports MY family. I do this for a living. If these people don't want to pay for it, then don't use it or pirate it. How would you feel if where ever you work don't pay you for what you do at work? Same principle. People who use my applications are paying me for my time and effort to make it.

      If they are using it and paid for it like they are supposed to I would have more money than I did if they didn't pay for it. It's still money lost. To a small time developer without the backings of a huge company Those 3,274 out of 3,768 people who don't pay for my app and use it on a daily basis would more than likely be YOU not getting paid for a year. Since I don't have a consistent paycheck I may not make money for 4-5 months at a time, and then get a chunk. Try walking in my shoes and you will understand what I mean.

      I do however have a trial version which NO one hardly downloads, and it gives 30 days unlimited usage. What does that tell you? They love my app, but unwilling to pay for it.

      I still back DRM. If DRM never existed piracy would be more rampant than it is now.
    1. feidhlim1986's Avatar
      feidhlim1986 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      In that case, your friend is an idiot because he is going to get banned (just like the rest of us...).
      No he's not, he doesnt play online, but that isnt the point.
      The point is that piracy or stealing or whatever you want to try and call it to justify it, does result in a loss of revenue. Just cos you had no intention in buying a product doesnt, under any circumstances, give you the right to steal/pirate the product.

      I have no intention in buying that car over there, and its got an Alarm (DRM) but I found a way to disable it so if I steal it, I'm doing no wrong cos I never would have paid for it anywho

      @Luppin, why not just rent the game/movie? Then if you like it buy it, if not then you've still contributed something towards the developer/etc. If you download a game/movie but dont like it, you've still used a product without paying for it.
    1. feidhlim1986's Avatar
      feidhlim1986 -
      If there was a magic unbreakable DRM and nothing was available for free on the net, I promise you that every digital media industry would see a large soar in sales. Not everyone who pirates would have zero intention of ever buying the thing. There are alot of people with the intention of buying lets say Microsoft Office, cos they need it for work or school, but their friend told em they can download it for free so they pirate it instead......loss of a sale.

      You say that "People that steal something were never going to buy it in the first place." If they were never gonna buy it in the first place, then the product must not interest them, so why do they steal it?
    1. Doppler's Avatar
      Doppler -
      Quote Originally Posted by feidhlim1986 View Post
      If there was a magic unbreakable DRM and nothing was available for free on the net, I promise you that every digital media industry would see a large soar in sales. Not everyone who pirates would have zero intention of ever buying the thing. There are alot of people with the intention of buying lets say Microsoft Office, cos they need it for work or school, but their friend told em they can download it for free so they pirate it instead......loss of a sale.

      You say that "People that steal something were never going to buy it in the first place." If they were never gonna buy it in the first place, then the product must not interest them, so why do they steal it?
      Amen to that.




      In red. If it's not worth buying then why steal it and use it? They have intention of using that product and it is worth X dollars to me. If you do not pay X dollars YOU ARE STEALING. That's still money out of my pocket. IF he didn't have no intention of buying the product then takes it anyway. That's money out of my pocket because of that sale(which requires money) is gone. He chose to steal it over PAYING(requires money) for it. Revenue is still money, a sale is still money. Even if it doesn't occur still doesn't mean it doesn't belong to me. It's either the money that belongs to me, or return/delete what you took from me. Either way it's still money out of my pocket.

      So if I walked into department store and took something I am in trouble. The end result if enough people do it is a increase in price to make up for lost revenue on the theft. I charge a higher price than I like because I have to compensate for piracy. Stop piracy and I am willing to bet prices goes down, and there would be no DRM.
    1. blkcadi's Avatar
      blkcadi -
      Lets stay on topic guys. Getting out of control.
    1. Melech518's Avatar
      Melech518 -
      They needed to be removed. They were full of profanity and people were starting to get out of control.
    1. szr's Avatar
      szr -
      @feidhlim1986: that's not really the same as mass piracy, assuming he's just bumming and burning copies from friends. That's akin to sharing cassette tapes, video tapes, CDs, DVDs. It's called sharing. As long as hes not turning around and selling the copies, it's pretty much fair use (DMCA aside, of course, which is little more than an excuse to go after anyone for any reason, right or wrong.)

      Yes, he should probably go get his own copies, but so should have all the people who ever shared tapes and discs over the past few decades.


      @Doppler: Again, you can't say you've "lost" revenue when you haven't made it in the first place, as you're assuming that their would have been a sale when you can't be certain. This is a common problem I see coming from many vendors out there; the assumption that just because you've spent time and money creating something some how makes you entitled to a profit. It doesn't. Yes, you put something for sale, and one should pay for the privilage for having it, but at the same time, you cannot say anyone has to buy your product just because you've spent time and money.
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      That's what happens when people start realizing they're wrong, they start using profanity and things get out of control. I know soo many people that are oblivious to pirating, when they want or need a copy of say Microsoft Office they'd be ready to go out and pay for it, then a friend tells them that he can get them a copy of it for free, so of course they'll take the free copy over paying money. Those are all lost sales and I'm positive that that kind of stuff happens all the time all over the world.
    1. Doppler's Avatar
      Doppler -
      Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
      @Doppler: Again, you can't say you've "lost" revenue when you haven't made it in the first place, as you're assuming that their would have been a sale when you can't be certain. This is a common problem I see coming from many vendors out there; the assumption that just because you've spent time and money creating something some how makes you entitled to a profit. It doesn't. Yes, you put something for sale, and one should pay for the privilage for having it, but at the same time, you cannot say anyone has to buy your product just because you've spent time and money.
      If I want to charge for my work, and you do not want to pay me for my work. Do not use my work. Do not give my work away. I have the right to a profit for my work. If I did not have the right to do so I would not be doing what I am doing. IF people WHO use my work, and paid me like they are supposed to if they are using MY work, and the LAW backs me on this. I should have more money that I currently do, because THEY are USING my work. So I have lost money. No matter how you try and twist it. If you want the RIGHT to use my work. You have to pay me. If you don't pay me you don't have the right to use my work.

      Regardless if there is a sale or not. They are still using my work. By that they should have paid me for my work. 30 days trial I agree to give. If you want to use it past that pay me for my work. So the people who HAVE used it past 30 days owe me money.

      Find a way to reduce piracy down to less than 5% or eliminate it. Until then I am for DRM.
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      Quote Originally Posted by Doppler View Post
      If I want to charge for my work, and you do not want to pay me for my work. Do not use my work. Do not give my work away. I have the right to a profit for my work. If I did not have the right to do so I would not be doing what I am doing. IF people WHO use my work, and paid me like they are supposed to if they are using MY work, and the LAW backs me on this. I should have more money that I currently do, because THEY are USING my work. So I have lost money. No matter how you try and twist it. If you want the RIGHT to use my work. You have to pay me. If you don't pay me you don't have the right to use my work.

      Regardless if there is a sale or not. They are still using my work. By that they should have paid me for my work. 30 days trial I agree to give. If you want to use it past that pay me for my work. So the people who HAVE used it past 30 days owe me money.

      Find a way to reduce piracy down to less than 5% or eliminate it. Until then I am for DRM.
      DRM has worked out great for you hasn't it? You'll never stop theft and the sooner you realize that the better you'll feel. No different than drugs, murder, rape and so on. It's not going to stop no matter what system you put in place. This very website is dedicated to breaking that kind of system, so in reality what exactly are you here for? This whole community is dedicated to figuring out how to circumvent these systems, not necessarily to steal apps but to break that barrier.

      I really do feel for you, I know what it's like to be stolen from. But clinging to a technology that hasn't worked in your favor, obviously, is rather foolish. I don't know how to stop people from stealing your app, but DRM in it's current form isn't working so I don't know why you keep swearing by it. DRM has never prevented piracy, has always penalized the paying customer, and unless they come up with a better way it never will prevent these things. I'm sorry that you're app is getting stolen, but DRM is not preventing it. I don't want to sound like a ****, but maybe you should try a different platform? Maybe you'll have better luck getting your app out there and less people will steal it. I don't know what androids piracy rate is like but doing multiple platforms may net you higher income.
    1. szr's Avatar
      szr -
      Quote Originally Posted by Doppler View Post
      If I want to charge for my work, and you do not want to pay me for my work.
      That is NOT what I said. My point was that just because you make something and put it up for sale, that you are some how entitled to a profit; this is false. No one is entitled to a profit just "because." But you can sell what you've made and make money doing it, but in a capitalistic system, it's up to the buyers to decide if you are worth investing in. If it's a good product and sold at a reasonable price, people will buy it enmasse, as history as shown.

      Find a way to reduce piracy down to less than 5% or eliminate it. Until then I am for DRM.
      Firstly, that just isn't realistic and you know it. Secondly, what you and people who think like you utterly fail to understand is that the more limiting and over reaching the DRM a dev like your includes, the more the problems end up stemming for that, and the more you motivate people to look for cleaner alternatives, thus driving more towards piracy, again, a history has shown over and over again.
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      You deleted perfectly relevant posts.
      That's because we have kids here that have never heard a bad word. This site is obviously not for adults, adult language or dissenting opinions of Apple. This site is a joke sometimes, all the crap 'stories' that are written as 'news' and mods taking down things that are no worse than what you hear on TV.
    1. Doppler's Avatar
      Doppler -
      Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
      That is NOT what I said. My point was that just because you make something and put it up for sale, that you are some how entitled to a profit. No one is entitled to a profit just "because." But you are entitled to sell what you've made and make money doing it, but in a capitalistic system, it's up to the buyers to decide if you are worth investing in. If it's a good product and sold at a reasonable price, people will buy it enmasse, as history as shown.

      Firstly, that just isn't realistic and you know it. Secondly, what you and people who think like you utterly fail to understand is that the more limiting and over reaching the DRM a dev like your includes, the more the problems end up stemming for that, and the more you motivate people to look for cleaner alternatives, thus driving more towards piracy, again, a history has shown over and over again.
      My point is this. Once its past the 30 days. I have a right to the money. I give 30 days FREE trial of the FULL version. If you want to use it past the 30 days you will have to pay me $7.00. People get the full version without compensating me. past 30 days a sale has happen I have yet to receive the monies for it. SO they have to either stop using it, or give me my $7.

      I am still for DRM. You will not change my mind. There was more piracy during the infancy of computing. Have you ever maintained and/or visited BBS's? 80% of ALL BBS's were using pirated software, and 95% of those BBS's had illegal software on them. 20% were legit and on the up and up. Computing makes piracy easier.

      You still have not shown ANY "cleaner" alternative. Piracy will be more rampant and harder to detect without DRM.
    1. szr's Avatar
      szr -
      Quote Originally Posted by Doppler View Post
      My point is this. Once its past the 30 days. I have a right to the money. I give 30 days FREE trial of the FULL version.
      Sorry but no. If I have completed such a trial, I am in no way obligated to go get the registered version. If I do choose to get it, then yes I should pay, I'm not disputing that.

      I am still for DRM. You will not change my mind. There was more piracy during the infancy of computing.
      I don't really feel that you have any idea how much more piracy comes from the use of excessive DRM. If you bother to actually go out and look, it has only increased the more DRM has. Some people still pay, and then go out and seek a cleaner version; like anything that comes retail with SecuROM for instance.

      The real problem is developers trying to maintain control over software post-sale, which is the point when it should be out of the developer's hands, and only in the consumer's. Yes, if you want updates and any other perks, you still need to refer back to the developer, but that is not the same as software that requires that you prove that you purchased it after you've already purchased it, especially do so repeatedly. This is by far one of the worse aspects of modern versions of Windows.

      Bottom line is, I'm not for piracy, but I can understand why some of it takes place. If developers continue to tie software to specific hardware, if they artifically limit something, if they enforce DRM schemes that only serve to limit and cehckup upon legitmate paying customers but do nothing to stop the real pirates, then the more such piracy will occur, even if for no other reason than to escape such limitations.

      Until you realize that, you'll be endlessly fighting an endless battle.
    1. Doppler's Avatar
      Doppler -
      Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
      Sorry but no. If I have completed such a trial, I am in no obligated to go get the registered version. If I do choose to get it, then yes I should pay, I'm not disputing that.
      Then uninstall the software, and not use my program. You do not agree to my terms which IS binding by law, and within those terms. If you do not then that in itself is also piracy. So therefor by not agreeing past the 30 days you do not agree to my terms, and therefor you are committing piracy.

      As I said it myself My free version last 30 days and once 30 days if over it locks you out from all the features. To go past 30 days of use you must pay for the retail version. If you use a retail version without paying me then you are pirating my software.

      Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
      I don't really feel that you have any idea how much more piracy comes from the use of excessive DRM. If you bother to actually go out and look, it has only increased the more DRM has. Some people still pay, and then go out and seek a cleaner version; like anything that comes retail with SecuROM for instance.
      Again there would be MORE piracy. History has shown that IN FACT piracy happens more often without DRM because people believe they can FREELY distribute. Though some people don't know how licensing works. There's a difference between licensing and actually selling of the product. You pay to USE, not pay to OWN the programs.

      Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
      The real problem is developers trying to maintain control over software post-sale, which is the point when it should be out of the developer's hands, and only in the consumer's. Yes, if you want updates and any other perks, you still need to refer back to the developer, but that is not the same as software that requires that you prove that you purchased it after you've already purchased it, especially do so repeatedly. This is by far one of the worse aspects of modern versions of Windows.
      The software still belongs to us. You are licensing to USE our programs. There's a huge difference see above.

      Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
      Bottom line is, I'm not for piracy, but I can understand why some of it takes place. If developers continue to tie software to specific hardware, if they artifically limit something, if they enforce DRM schemes that only serve to limit and cehckup upon legitmate paying customers but do nothing to stop the real pirates, then the more such piracy will occur, even if for no other reason than to escape such limitations.
      Again no it doesn't people can freely distribute the product and though may be unintentional is still pirating as people do not pay to use said program, or agree to the Terms of Use which doesn't give the right to do so.

      Quote Originally Posted by szr View Post
      Until you realize that, you'll be endlessly fighting an endless battle.
      Until you understand how intellectual properties work you will never understand the standpoint of developers. DRM will always be around no matter how consumers, and pirates try to get rid of it. We have a right to protect our property.