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  • Mac OS X 10.7 Talk Sparks Controversy



    A controversial post from Rixstep is drawing wide apprehension, disbelief, and cries of "big fat rumor" this weekend. What's all the fuss about? Well, it seems that Apple wants to be large and in charge for when Mac OS 10.7 rolls out. Indeed, there could be "big changes" ahead. And, as Rixstep hints, Apple will exercise absolute authority in ways never before observed in Mac operating systems. According to Rixstep's post yesterday, no software will be able to run on Mac OS X 10.7 without being approved by Apple!

    Assuming this all plays out as foreshadowed, this fall Apple will initiate a program to sign up independent software vendors for the 10.7 developer program. Similar to the iPhone's variation of the program, the 10.7 developer program will cost $99 and deliver a host of bells and whistles, like Xcode developer tools and access to online API documentation. But, at the end of the day, devs who have software to push for OS 10.7 will have to get Apple's seal of approval by submitting their products to the App Store just as any developer would today in obtaining access for their work.

    According to the report, OS 10.7 will have "kernel support for ('insistence on') binaries signed with Apple's root certificate." But the piece goes on to say that "Slapping a root certificate on a binary running Snow Leopard or earlier doesn't change anything: the certificate represents an additional executable section that can easily be removed. Individual apps can of course check for the presence of a certificate, but it's not before the OS kernel itself insists on this certificate that program execution is totally in Apple's control."

    Of course, there are two sides to every story. And multiple sides (from the dev world, at least) are now surfacing to say that Rixstep's post reads like pure fiction. As a result, countless other devs and websites (including our friends at 9to5Mac) are firmly keeping this report from Rixstep in the rumor column. One dev in the know even told 9to5Mac that "I'm in the Mac Developer program, and there have been no announcements from Apple about 10.7 whatsoever to developers."

    Who's in the know? Who's in the dark?

    As more and more developers weigh in on Rixstep's post, it would seem that the information presented yesterday was far from totally accurate. Of course, a lot of people didn't initially believe that Gizmodo had the new iPhone model either. Could there be some morsel of truth to Rixstep's piece? Absolutely. It just might be a while until we know for sure.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Mac OS X 10.7 Talk Sparks Controversy started by Michael Essany View original post
    Comments 67 Comments
    1. jay2712's Avatar
      jay2712 -
      app store for mac? sounds nice, yet something sinister lurking behind it
    1. adrian1480's Avatar
      adrian1480 -
      not gonna happen, guys.

      Apple isn't stupid. Shady at times...but not stupid.
    1. zed1111's Avatar
      zed1111 -
      This is absolutely BS. If Apple decides to rule our Macs then Linux will become an option.
    1. billchase2's Avatar
      billchase2 -
      So, how long until we are jailbreaking our MacBook Pros?
    1. dennder's Avatar
      dennder -
      If, indeed the gossip is correct... *****, well... see you in many-many years. I will continue to use my current desktops and then convert back to classic PC (windows or linux, whateva is da best in that time).
    1. cypherpunk's Avatar
      cypherpunk -
      Perhaps I'm being naive here, but I don't see this the way some of you people have been describing it.

      What I see is that they're basically taking the package management/repo system that's existed on Linux platforms for years, expanding it to allow commercial apps, and going a step further by having every binary signed by the repository owner. What I expect we'll see is a way to whitelist certificates to accept, in addition to a global option to allow or disallow unsigned binaries from running.

      From a security perspective this is actually a very good thing - the repo system is one of Linux's biggest strengths, and having every binary signed will guarantee the user that it hasn't been modified.

      An added advantage is that it could allow companies to implement DRM in a more modern and less invasive way, since downloading, activating and updating software would be tied to the same billing account the user used to purchase it (it of course won't stop piracy, but it'll let companies deny pirates support and updates without inconveniencing legitimate customers).

      Again maybe I'm being overly optimistic here, but I don't see a claim anywhere on Apple's site that the next version of OSX will ONLY run Apple signed binaries.
    1. goodluck4287's Avatar
      goodluck4287 -
      If that happens, Apple can suck my balls as I transition over to Win8. No way in hell am I going to **** around with jailbreaking my Mac, it's stupid enough that we have to do that to our iPhones to get the features we want.
    1. yomommah's Avatar
      yomommah -
      Jailbreak a desktop... I never thought I'd see the day
      HEY WIN-HATERS! YOU BETTER GET USED TO USING A WINDOWS MACHINE TO JAILBREAK YOUR PRECIOUS RIDICULOUSLY OVERPRICED COMPUTERS!!!
      apparently jobs has a domination fetish or something
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      Quote Originally Posted by FlexSurferOne View Post
      If your Vista is more stable then 10.6.3 then maybe Apple is right about this move. I don't know what applications your using on your 10.6.3 but I'm sure those application are what causing instability of your Mac compared to Vista, and this is what Apply trying to avoid.
      You mean like using Preview to scan a document? Or using any program to print in 10.6.3 and having it fail miserably? Or that 10.6 handles printers in the worst way I've ever seen? Or that even with 10.6.3 my WHS and every other network drive gets dropped after 5-10 minutes of inactivity? Or having my processor useage go through the roof when using iTunes? Or iTunes locking up every single function on my MacBook while it decides what to do when syncing my iPhone? Or that my new mail sound STILL doesn't work? Or that I can't use my computer for at least 5 minutes after a fresh reboot because it has the spinning beach ball when trying to start a whopping 5 apps? Or that when I shut the lid it goes to sleep and then refuses to properly wake up? Or when it's asleep and I open the lid it stays asleep and then when I close the lid it wakes up and on and on? Or that SL STILL doesn't have an even half-decent window manager?

      You mean those bugs? Apple has gotten progressively worse with OS updates. I can't believe how much slower 10.6 is than 10.5. It's staggering.

      Vista wasn't a failure on anything other than file transfer speed. Alot of hardware vendors, almost of all them as a matter of fact, were at majority fault for Vistas problems. They didn't write stable drivers and such because they figured XP drivers would be fine. Some were some weren't. Vista had to cope with millions upon millions of hardware combos and it got it right pretty often, those vendors that didn't write stable drivers ruined their reputation. Windows 7 is written on damn near the same kernel and it's fantastic.

      And I don't think Apple would do something like this. This could cause so many problems it's mid blowing to think about. They have almost no reason to do this because a desktop/laptop isn't a mobile platform that has limited input and slow hardware. The quality app desire isn't there because they don't have any reason to control that experience. With iPhone/iPad/iPod the generate and tremendous amount of revenue after the sale, when a MacBook/iMac/Mac is sold there really isn't. They've sold the hardware to you already. I don't get where this would make sense.
    1. moon#pie's Avatar
      moon#pie -
      OMG people! This is a freaking RUMOR that some random dude THINKS is going to happen! let me define RUMOR for you.

      rumor |ˈroōmər| ( Brit. rumour)
      noun
      a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth : they were investigating rumors of a massacre | rumor has it that he will take a year off.
      verb ( be rumored)
      be circulated as an unverified account : [with clause ] it's rumored that he lives on a houseboat | [with infinitive ] she is rumored to have gone into hiding.
      ORIGIN late Middle English : from Old French rumur, from Latin rumor ‘noise.’

      from my macbook's dictionary app
    1. n00neimp0rtant's Avatar
      n00neimp0rtant -
      Oh my God. If this happens...God forbid I should say this...I'm going back to Windows.
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      You mean like using Preview to scan a document? Or using any program to print in 10.6.3 and having it fail miserably? Or that 10.6 handles printers in the worst way I've ever seen? Or that even with 10.6.3 my WHS and every other network drive gets dropped after 5-10 minutes of inactivity? Or having my processor useage go through the roof when using iTunes? Or iTunes locking up every single function on my MacBook while it decides what to do when syncing my iPhone? Or that my new mail sound STILL doesn't work? Or that I can't use my computer for at least 5 minutes after a fresh reboot because it has the spinning beach ball when trying to start a whopping 5 apps? Or that when I shut the lid it goes to sleep and then refuses to properly wake up? Or when it's asleep and I open the lid it stays asleep and then when I close the lid it wakes up and on and on? Or that SL STILL doesn't have an even half-decent window manager?

      You mean those bugs? Apple has gotten progressively worse with OS updates. I can't believe how much slower 10.6 is than 10.5. It's staggering.

      Vista wasn't a failure on anything other than file transfer speed. Alot of hardware vendors, almost of all them as a matter of fact, were at majority fault for Vistas problems. They didn't write stable drivers and such because they figured XP drivers would be fine. Some were some weren't. Vista had to cope with millions upon millions of hardware combos and it got it right pretty often, those vendors that didn't write stable drivers ruined their reputation. Windows 7 is written on damn near the same kernel and it's fantastic.

      And I don't think Apple would do something like this. This could cause so many problems it's mid blowing to think about. They have almost no reason to do this because a desktop/laptop isn't a mobile platform that has limited input and slow hardware. The quality app desire isn't there because they don't have any reason to control that experience. With iPhone/iPad/iPod the generate and tremendous amount of revenue after the sale, when a MacBook/iMac/Mac is sold there really isn't. They've sold the hardware to you already. I don't get where this would make sense.
      I'm sorry your experience has tainted your view. Yours is not a normal or typical experience. Have you done anything yourself to rectify the problem, like backing up your data with time machine, wiping the drive and doing a clean install? It's quite clear you have serious conflict issues and that is the best way to fix it. You can then migrate all your stuff back. If your issues were wide spread, then we'd all hear about it and Apple would be in trouble, so if you can except that yours is not a typical experience, then you will get the true value from your Macbook. One tip, regularly repair disk permissions with disk utility. After software updates and software installs, it keeps the system clean. Installing OS's on top of old problems will give you more problems. I've had many Macs over the years (and work with windows OS's at work, and I don't prefer them) and haven't had any major issues unless I created them myself. Give it a go, clean install (you can with Snow leopard just google it), and give it a real chance to do what it does for all of us that don't have your problems. Best of luck.
    1. Raptors's Avatar
      Raptors -
      Is the jailbreak out for my MacBook yet? Lol
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      I'm sorry your experience has tainted your view. Yours is not a normal or typical experience. Have you done anything yourself to rectify the problem, like backing up your data with time machine, wiping the drive and doing a clean install? It's quite clear you have serious conflict issues and that is the best way to fix it. You can then migrate all your stuff back. If your issues were wide spread, then we'd all hear about it and Apple would be in trouble, so if you can except that yours is not a typical experience, then you will get the true value from your Macbook. One tip, regularly repair disk permissions with disk utility. After software updates and software installs, it keeps the system clean. Installing OS's on top of old problems will give you more problems. I've had many Macs over the years (and work with windows OS's at work, and I don't prefer them) and haven't had any major issues unless I created them myself. Give it a go, clean install (you can with Snow leopard just google it), and give it a real chance to do what it does for all of us that don't have your problems. Best of luck.
      I've asked the question about if doing a clean install to fix my problems and have gotten no answers and no feedback! It's happened to my moms iMac, ALL the exact problems I've gotten, and hers was an upgrade install rather than a clean install too. She constantly complains about how slow it is now compared to before she upgraded. I've run disk repair as well and it's had no effect. Windows 7 boots in at least a third the time, but all I've got installed is steam and a few games. OS X is better than 7 in alot of keys areas and I prefer it to 7, but 7 and Vista weren't as bad as people paint it. I'd say 80% of the complainers never used it just regurgitated what they were told was bad about it.

      I've avoided a clean install because I don't want to waste four hours of my life doing something I shouldn't have to. I regularly back up with time machine but I would rather wait to do a clean install until after I do the update on my Windows Home Server to make sure that it works from there, obviously keeping my current backup just in case! It hasn't tainted my view of OS X, but the mail not making sounds when recieving and email is widely documented. That's not an issue that only I have.

      EDIT: I had ZERO of the current problems I have now when running the most current version of Leopard. ALL of my problems started when I went to Snow Leopard, and nothing has gotten better. My printers especially have gotten worse. I have to disconnect and reconnect both my printer and my wireless connection.
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      I've asked the question about if doing a clean install to fix my problems and have gotten no answers and no feedback! It's happened to my moms iMac, ALL the exact problems I've gotten, and hers was an upgrade install rather than a clean install too. She constantly complains about how slow it is now compared to before she upgraded. I've run disk repair as well and it's had no effect. Windows 7 boots in at least a third the time, but all I've got installed is steam and a few games. OS X is better than 7 in alot of keys areas and I prefer it to 7, but 7 and Vista weren't as bad as people paint it. I'd say 80% of the complainers never used it just regurgitated what they were told was bad about it.

      I've avoided a clean install because I don't want to waste four hours of my life doing something I shouldn't have to. I regularly back up with time machine but I would rather wait to do a clean install until after I do the update on my Windows Home Server to make sure that it works from there, obviously keeping my current backup just in case! It hasn't tainted my view of OS X, but the mail not making sounds when recieving and email is widely documented. That's not an issue that only I have.

      EDIT: I had ZERO of the current problems I have now when running the most current version of Leopard. ALL of my problems started when I went to Snow Leopard, and nothing has gotten better. My printers especially have gotten worse. I have to disconnect and reconnect both my printer and my wireless connection.
      I agree, print drivers on Snow Leopard initial release weren't the best, it caught many companies on the hop and below par drivers were put out. Check the manufacturers driver download page and see if updates have been posted. There were driver updates in the last bunch of software update, but check anyway. I would highly recommend a clean install, it doesn't take all that long. I did my two daughters macbooks, back up and all, and a clean install, in a morning, only recently and their maccbooks are running better. Probably 2-3 hours in total. Migration works seamlessly, and all the users prefs are as they were before. Mail sound, well mine works 90% of the time, but I'm not losing sleep over it. Try changing the format the sound is in, it may help. I don't use preview to scan, image capture is way better at that, unless the twain driver isn't supported. I don't know how much RAM you're running on but an upgrade will always help. 1GB is the minimum on SL but 2-4 is best, 8 even better.

      I'd go into systems prefs/printers, and remove all the printers added to the list and re-add them. Sometimes proxies pop up like HP 810-1, the one being one of two of the same printer, so proxies can stuff up SL seeing the correct printer connected. I wouldn't use the printers software either, they're not up to it in most cases. Also, too many startup items will bog down your startup time. I only use essential items, as this has always been an issue all the way back to Tiger. Updated third party stuff too, they may not be totally compatible with SL and if it's a startup item, it will hang and hang and hang.

      Cheers
    1. pyromcr's Avatar
      pyromcr -
      i thought snow leopard was the last of osx. and there is no way that they will turn the computer into the walled garden that the iphone is. i think this entire article is fake. and if its not, then the walled garden claim is definitely fake...
    1. CanadianSongEmperor's Avatar
      CanadianSongEmperor -
      I don't doubt that Apple will go through with this, unless they read these forums, or otherwise see the wide unpopularity of this policy.

      I am currently running Snow Leopard and will continue to do so in the hope that Apple backs down from this policy. If they don't I will switch to Linux.

      Unless you have evidence, what right do you have to doubt someones word? I'd say it is about as much right as they have to doubt your word on no evidence.
    1. moon#pie's Avatar
      moon#pie -
      ^uh huh. Yeah, sure. WHERE THE HECK IS HIS EVIDENCE. Hmmm? Apple has not done this and they will not do it. They are not stupid. They know that if they ever did this, they would lose everything that they have worked hard to make.
    1. CanadianSongEmperor's Avatar
      CanadianSongEmperor -
      What the heck happened to "innocent until proven guilty" have justice, and honour been lost in the 20th century?

      -

      But if you want to toss Justice aside, then where the heck is the evidence that Apple will lose everything if they bring this policy into effect?

      -

      I grant that by bringing in this new policy Apple would lose a lot of customers. But by no means all.

      I doubt this will affect a lot of artists, and others in the graphics department very much - if it affects them at all. It is just as hard - if not harder - for them to switch to another OS as it is for them to go out and buy some commercial software out there. I'm wlilling to gamble that Apple won't be cutting off much existing commercial software with this policy.

      Also I think, the military will make some sort of deal with Apple. Very likely - in my mind - Apple will grant the military the right to use whatever software they want so long as it is only for professional use, and it does not leave the military.

      Big companies using Macs may largely continue to do so. And as has been previously stated this new policy also brings better security to Macs from Viruses.

      In my opinion you are mistaken to say that Apple would lose everything with this new policy. A lot, yes, but much will still remain.
    1. moon#pie's Avatar
      moon#pie -
      They are already fighting for a decent market share as it is. Computers are meant to be open, not close like iphone OS. What credentials do you have anyway? You joined, like, today and have OMG, 2 POSTS! I don't mean to be a jerk, but this is an old thread anyway and your comments are stupid because apple will never do this to their desktop line (in the current market. this may be the norm in 20 years).