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  • No "End-Around" For You: iPhone 4.0 SDK Bans Flash Runtimes


    Apple's new developer license agreement bans any cross-compilation of iPhone and iPad apps developed for other platforms, including Flash runtimes that had been referred to an "end-around" to Apple's blanket prohibition of Flash on the iPhone OS. The ban also extends to other non-Apple frameworks like Java and Silverlight. While it could be Apple's traditional not-invented-here attitude, the move also reflects the need to evaluate how code works with the new iPhone 4.0 multitasking API's.

    Apple changed the iPhone Developer Program License Agreement to restrict the use of cross-platform compilers in developing apps. Section 3.3.3 of the agreement, which devs have to accept before they can download the iPhone 4.0 SDK, states that apps "must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited)."

    The change seems to be primarily targeted at Adobe, which has been trying to get Flash content onto the iPhone for years. Steve Jobs, however, dismisses Flash as "too slow to be useful" and a "CPU hog." Adobe had announced that Flash Professional CS5 would have a tool called Packager for iPhone OS, which turns Flash content into stand-alone iPhone apps. Van Baker, an analyst from the Gartner Group, referred to Packager as an Adobe "end around" to Apple's Flash prohibition. An Adobe spokeswoman with the impressive name of Wiebke Lips said that the company is "aware of the new SDK language and are looking into it," adding that they will "continue to develop our Packager for iPhone OS technology, which we plan to debut in Flash CS5." Adobe will officially launch Creative Suite 5 - including Flash Professional CS5 - on Monday.

    Not just Flash is prohibited, however: the language specifically insists on "Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine." The reason for this, according to "sources familiar with Apple's plans" told AppleInsider, is because the system will be doing runtime evaluations of apps to manage resources for what is being called "smart multitasking." According to their source, unless code is using a structure the operating system can understand, it "can't swap out resources, it can't pause some threads while allowing others to run, it can't selectively notify, etc."

    At the announcement yesterday, Steve Jobs made the case that the reason multitasking had been held up on the iPhone OS platform was due to the load it put on the system. If the whole edifice rests on a delicate operating system balancing act, then it makes sense that only code that has a predictable structure will work with the multitasking APIs.

    On the other hand, though… Steve Jobs really hates Flash.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: No "End-Around" For You: iPhone 4.0 SDK Bans Flash Runtimes started by Paul Daniel Ash View original post
    Comments 74 Comments
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bluprint View Post
      In a stand off between adobe and apple, apple will lose. It will lose all it's pro users and industries like production, media, photography, web design, etc. Everything from desktops to pro-macs will serve no purpose to any professional IMO

      BTW who cares if apple gets bashed for being in the wrong, isn't that what the jailbreak community is for?
      Oh IMO, I think this ranks as the idiot comment of the day.

      A company that's worth hundreds of billions of dollars, with a cash reserve of over $30 billion, making the top mp3/video/mobile game player in the world, a record selling and number one phone on the market, the biggest online music seller by a mile, hundreds of millions in sales of their "i" devices, billions in sales of mobile apps and music, and computers that don't crash like their alternatives, and I haven't scratched the software they make, as apposed to a company that rode on the coattails of Microsofts monopoly of the "popcorn" IT market place. Making one web plugin, one PDF reader and one image enhancing package. Hmmmmm, let me think. CS3 & CS4 run on OSX (and will so from here on), so if adobe drops support for CS5 on OSX, well they lose nothing coz all photographers or graphic designers can use Aperture or this lovely product http://www.pixelmator.com/. In a quote from Lethal Weapon 2, " who's the dickhead now"!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      .
      Keep believing what Steve tells ya, you don't need flash and you need to relinquish all your control to Apple. Hell get iAd so we can better tell you what you need.
      Considering flash brings ALL the crap ads and constantly annoying popups I don't want on my browser experience,(and has done so for the last 15 years), I gather you'll banish both to the trash? I don't want ANY ads on my devices thanks!!!!!!!! I use clicktoflash and stuff those money hungry flash embedding b@stards, right up!
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by creasy425 View Post
      @steve-z17

      That's good advice....just swooped up a milestone and couldn't be happier. F$#@ apple and their pretentious *** boss.......mods feel free to delete my account......deuces apple fan *******!
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
    1. DubbaCTrumpetMSU's Avatar
      DubbaCTrumpetMSU -
      These trolls are annoying....If you can't state your opinion with a decent amount of intelligence, then well...go somewhere else. If you don't like things, that's fine. If you think you have to trash talk people that buy certain things...then well, your life needs to get better..and you need to get out more...

      I've been through it all, Windows, Apple, Android, blah blah blah. You guys do realize that the "Flash mobile player' that's ON these phones that 'support' Flash don't even play most things anyway, right? Example. Hulu does not work on the Droid. Why? Because "Flash Mobile 10.1" is based off an older version of Flash that nobody uses any more. This is an Apple and iPhone community, and if you don't like it here, then take your whiny selves to some other forum.

      I wish I was a mod...this place would get a lot smaller very quickly. And no, I'm not saying that everyone has to like everything Apple does...but the requirement would be if you are going to disagree, you have to have some sort of intelligence in your post and you can't insult or flame other members. Example is the post above me, quoting creasy425. I don't know, but I don't see a lot of 'Apple fanboys' losing sleep over that loss. This IS an Apple forum, right? Okay, time to end this rant.
    1. agentfubu's Avatar
      agentfubu -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      Oh IMO, I think this ranks as the idiot comment of the day.

      A company that's worth hundreds of billions of dollars, with a cash reserve of over $30 billion, making the top mp3/video/mobile game player in the world, a record selling and number one phone on the market, the biggest online music seller by a mile, hundreds of millions in sales of their "i" devices, billions in sales of mobile apps and music, and computers that don't crash like their alternatives, and I haven't scratched the software they make, as apposed to a company that rode on the coattails of Microsofts monopoly of the "popcorn" IT market place. Making one web plugin, one PDF reader and one image enhancing package. Hmmmmm, let me think. CS3 & CS4 run on OSX (and will so from here on), so if adobe drops support for CS5 on OSX, well they lose nothing coz all photographers or graphic designers can use Aperture or this lovely product Pixelmator. In a quote from Lethal Weapon 2, " who's the dickhead now"!!!



      Considering flash brings ALL the crap ads and constantly annoying popups I don't want on my browser experience,(and has done so for the last 15 years), I gather you'll banish both to the trash? I don't want ANY ads on my devices thanks!!!!!!!! I use clicktoflash and stuff those money hungry flash embedding b@stards, right up!
      Adobe is no "one image enhancing package."
      It's the same thing as this apple that you described. They have the sales and backup from the professionals. You tell thousands of professionals "Well you can just switch to one of these programs..." It would be far more difficult than you make it sound.

      computers that don't crash like their alternatives
      Funny how you had to throw this into an argument about adobe vs apple?

      Quote Originally Posted by DubbaCTrumpetMSU View Post
      These trolls are annoying....If you can't state your opinion with a decent amount of intelligence, then well...go somewhere else. If you don't like things, that's fine. If you think you have to trash talk people that buy certain things...then well, your life needs to get better..and you need to get out more...

      I've been through it all, Windows, Apple, Android, blah blah blah. You guys do realize that the "Flash mobile player' that's ON these phones that 'support' Flash don't even play most things anyway, right? Example. Hulu does not work on the Droid. Why? Because "Flash Mobile 10.1" is based off an older version of Flash that nobody uses any more. This is an Apple and iPhone community, and if you don't like it here, then take your whiny selves to some other forum.

      I wish I was a mod...this place would get a lot smaller very quickly. And no, I'm not saying that everyone has to like everything Apple does...but the requirement would be if you are going to disagree, you have to have some sort of intelligence in your post and you can't insult or flame other members. Example is the post above me, quoting creasy425. I don't know, but I don't see a lot of 'Apple fanboys' losing sleep over that loss. This IS an Apple forum, right? Okay, time to end this rant.
      When these forums first started there weren't that many people complaining in general. I believe the fact that so many are flocking online to complain just shows that Apple isn't making all of the right choices with consumers. Sure some of these people are 'unintelligent' but there's a lot of them. It's no coincidence.
    1. kamu's Avatar
      kamu -
      Quote Originally Posted by DubbaCTrumpetMSU View Post
      These trolls are annoying....If you can't state your opinion with a decent amount of intelligence, then well...go somewhere else. If you don't like things, that's fine. If you think you have to trash talk people that buy certain things...then well, your life needs to get better..and you need to get out more...

      I've been through it all, Windows, Apple, Android, blah blah blah. You guys do realize that the "Flash mobile player' that's ON these phones that 'support' Flash don't even play most things anyway, right? Example. Hulu does not work on the Droid. Why? Because "Flash Mobile 10.1" is based off an older version of Flash that nobody uses any more. This is an Apple and iPhone community, and if you don't like it here, then take your whiny selves to some other forum.

      I wish I was a mod...this place would get a lot smaller very quickly. And no, I'm not saying that everyone has to like everything Apple does...but the requirement would be if you are going to disagree, you have to have some sort of intelligence in your post and you can't insult or flame other members. Example is the post above me, quoting creasy425. I don't know, but I don't see a lot of 'Apple fanboys' losing sleep over that loss. This IS an Apple forum, right? Okay, time to end this rant.
      the best and the most true message i read on this forum…
    1. Success.Is.Sweet's Avatar
      Success.Is.Sweet -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      and computers that don't crash like their alternatives
      LOL

      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      all photographers or graphic designers can use Aperture or this lovely product Pixelmator.
      LOL

      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      In a quote from Lethal Weapon 2, " who's the dickhead now"!!!
      You're making that apparent.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      Considering flash brings ALL the crap ads and constantly annoying popups
      Source or shenanigans.
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by DubbaCTrumpetMSU View Post
      These trolls are annoying....If you can't state your opinion with a decent amount of intelligence, then well...go somewhere else. If you don't like things, that's fine. If you think you have to trash talk people that buy certain things...then well, your life needs to get better..and you need to get out more...

      I've been through it all, Windows, Apple, Android, blah blah blah. You guys do realize that the "Flash mobile player' that's ON these phones that 'support' Flash don't even play most things anyway, right? Example. Hulu does not work on the Droid. Why? Because "Flash Mobile 10.1" is based off an older version of Flash that nobody uses any more. This is an Apple and iPhone community, and if you don't like it here, then take your whiny selves to some other forum.

      I wish I was a mod...this place would get a lot smaller very quickly. And no, I'm not saying that everyone has to like everything Apple does...but the requirement would be if you are going to disagree, you have to have some sort of intelligence in your post and you can't insult or flame other members. Example is the post above me, quoting creasy425. I don't know, but I don't see a lot of 'Apple fanboys' losing sleep over that loss. This IS an Apple forum, right? Okay, time to end this rant.
      Well said. I see all these whiny complaints come from people whos only experience with anything Apple, is that they have an iPhone, and they become an overnight expert, giving them authority to bucket Apple over everything they hate about it. The ridiculous talk over a crappy web browser PLUGIN is just that, ridiculous. Their support for something they know very little about, ie: any experience with using any Adobe product on OSX (Acrobat is a dog as is Flash, both coded very sloppily, and Photoshop is an overpriced image enhancer). And the tired old argument that flash is what makes the web go around is just trite. What, we can't have choice on what format web content is played on????? Adobe can code very bad software that is a high security risk, and that's ok???? Give me a break. Right on DubbaCTrumpetMSU;5193106!!

      Quote Originally Posted by Success.Is.Sweet View Post
      LOL



      LOL



      You're making that apparent.



      Source or shenanigans.

      Geez, thanks for the input. Your incredible knowledge on the subject has really enlighten the whole debate.

      If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, then best you go back under the bridge, TROLL!!
    1. agentfubu's Avatar
      agentfubu -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      Well said. I see all these whiny complaints come from people whos only experience with anything Apple, is that they have an iPhone, and they become an overnight expert, giving them authority to bucket Apple over everything they hate about it. The ridiculous talk over a crappy web browser PLUGIN is just that, ridiculous. Their support for something they know very little about, ie: any experience with using any Adobe product on OSX (Acrobat is a dog as is Flash, both coded very sloppily, and Photoshop is an overpriced image enhancer). And the tired old argument that flash is what makes the web go around is just trite. What, we can't have choice on what format web content is played on????? Adobe can code very bad software that is a high security risk, and that's ok???? Give me a break. Right on DubbaCTrumpetMSU;5193106!!




      Geez, thanks for the input. Your incredible knowledge on the subject has really enlighten the whole debate.

      If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, then best you go back under the bridge, TROLL!!
      It seems like you only respond to people who either support you or you can easily flame.
      Maybe you'll respond to me this time, because I'm interested in having an actual discussion, not flaming you.

      You contradict yourself quite often:
      What, we can't have choice on what format web content is played on?
      Why can't we use flash then? If you can choose what you want why can't everyone else choose flash?

      I'm curious as to what you refer to here:
      Adobe can code very bad software that is a high security risk, and that's ok????
      (Acrobat is a dog as is Flash, both coded very sloppily, and Photoshop is an overpriced image enhancer
      100's of thousands of users of adobe's software would easily disagree with this statement. Why do you think their software is priced so highly? Because open source free software is better than it? I think not. Why do so many professionals and large corporations go to adobe? I don't think it's just for the bandwagon. Do you even have any experience with adobe's products?
      What security risks are you referring too?? You have no real evidence to your argument.
      Have you seen the code for flash either? It works flawlessly on other OS's. But on Mac it's terrible according to you. Problem with the software? Possibly. But if Adobe has it right everywhere else they're not LAZY.
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by agentfubu View Post
      Adobe is no "one image enhancing package."
      It's the same thing as this apple that you described. They have the sales and backup from the professionals. You tell thousands of professionals "Well you can just switch to one of these programs..." It would be far more difficult than you make it sound.



      Funny how you had to throw this into an argument about adobe vs apple?



      When these forums first started there weren't that many people complaining in general. I believe the fact that so many are flocking online to complain just shows that Apple isn't making all of the right choices with consumers. Sure some of these people are 'unintelligent' but there's a lot of them. It's no coincidence.
      I'd put my dollar on Apples sales ahead of Adobe any day man!!! Just check the share price differential.

      There's a lot of Apple hateboys who just jump on here for the sake of kicking Apple, no intelligence there. What are they complaining about? Apples right to choose what content they allow on their devices? Geez, sorry. Didn't know they have please Adobe ahead of their own shareholders. If Apple isn't making "all the right choices" according to you, then why do they keep selling shiploads of devices? That doesn't make sense. Just because you disagree, doesn't make them wrong. Their sales prove that. If it was such a big deal, then who'd buy their devices? Your opinion against hundreds of millions of sales, hmmm let me see......... I think Apple win that one man.

      I'll state this one more time. Anyone who doesn't like anything Apple does, has the right to choose anything else they want. All I ask is that we get the same amount of choice with embedded web content, or is that not a fair thing to ask for??????
    1. agentfubu's Avatar
      agentfubu -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      I'd put my dollar on Apples sales ahead of Adobe any day man!!! Just check the share price differential.

      There's a lot of Apple hateboys who just jump on here for the sake of kicking Apple, no intelligence there. What are they complaining about? Apples right to choose what content they allow on their devices? Geez, sorry. Didn't know they have please Adobe ahead of their own shareholders. If Apple isn't making "all the right choices" according to you, then why do they keep selling shiploads of devices? That doesn't make sense. Just because you disagree, doesn't them wrong. Their sales prove that. If it was such a big deal, then who'd buy their devices? Your opinion against hundreds of millions of sales, hmmm let me see......... I think Apple win that one man.

      I'll state this one more time. Anyone who doesn't like anything Apple does, has the right to choose anything else they want. All I ask is that we get the same amount of choice with embedded web content, or is that not a fair thing to ask for??????
      I never said that adobe was bigger than apple, apple caters to a much larger crowd, they're in a completely different market. It's naturally going to have sales. You're comparing apples to oranges.
      Compare adobe to another image editor company's shares.
      If adobe does pull support for apple, people will leave apple. They won't just turn their backs on adobe and buy all new software and train all of their developers on it.
      It's either buy a new OS and keep the same software or buy all new software. You don't need to train someone to use a new OS, but you do for new software.

      I never said it was more than my opinion. I think they're making the wrong choice. But I'm sure there's some other motive (such as money) for making this choice.

      You also keep referring to it as "their" phone or "their" OS. Sure they "own" it, but when I PAY for MY phone I want to be able to use it how I like. That'd be like a car dealer selling cars that only drive when they allow you to and the dealer decides what roads you can drive on.

      If I didn't like the iPhone, I wouldn't be here. It's Apple I'm loosing faith in. I would never buy another phone (unless jailbreaking somehow stopped...). I love the iPhone. So don't tell me to go elsewhere. I bought my phone, I should get a say in it.
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by agentfubu View Post
      It seems like you only respond to people who either support you or you can easily flame.
      Maybe you'll respond to me this time, because I'm interested in having an actual discussion, not flaming you.

      You contradict yourself quite often:

      Why can't we use flash then? If you can choose what you want why can't everyone else choose flash?

      I'm curious as to what you refer to here:


      100's of thousands of users of adobe's software would easily disagree with this statement. Why do you think their software is priced so highly? Because open source free software is better than it? I think not. Why do so many professionals and large corporations go to adobe? I don't think it's just for the bandwagon. Do you even have any experience with adobe's products?
      What security risks are you referring too?? You have no real evidence to your argument.
      Have you seen the code for flash either? It works flawlessly on other OS's. But on Mac it's terrible according to you. Problem with the software? Possibly. But if Adobe has it right everywhere else they're not LAZY.
      1. There is no choice on web content at the moment, that's what the whole flash vs html5/javascript and css coding debate is all about. Why does anyone who doesn't use a PC have to put up with such a dog like flash, and yes Linux users have exactly the same issues with it. Others are pushing for alternatives but we, according to web Nazis of this world, shouldn't have choice, what's up with that?

      2. If you remotely understood the problems with flash, yes even for all you PC people out there, the vulnerabilities it has are just downright wrong. If only you knew the risks it can put your system under. Microsoft Security Advisory (979267): Vulnerabilities in Adobe Flash Player 6 Provided in Windows XP Could Allow Remote Code Execution

      3. Not according to me, you google flash and OSX issues or linux issues or flash and vulnerabilities, and see what you find. Don't take my word for it. Just ask any Mac user here about flash. Have a read here and the user forum afterwards. AppleInsider | Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash

      4. "do I even have experience with adobe" F#ck me. I'm in web design, have been for 15 years. I've used solaris, PC's Linux, Macs, you name it, and what I know about Flash in particular, god too many headaches over the years on that one to even think about. I use Photoshop, and did use Acrobat, but that became troublesome on OSX too. Don't misunderstand me, Adobe used to make premium products, but over the last 5 yrs they've slipped, and in particular, on the Unix/Linux products (Adobe have only one, that's ONE programer writing code for Linux, As for Mac, we will never know). I don't believe they have the right people working in that area, and it shows.

      5. "have I seen the code" are you an idiot or just practicing? It's proprietary software. The software writers where I work have a pretty good handle on that and if they told me black was white, I'd believe them. I've seen performance benchmarks on flash, running on Vista and OSX. The difference is a big worry.

      6. You can choose flash man, just not on Apple "i" devices, everyone knows that. Buy yourself a device that does what you want, nobody's stopping you. I don't have that choice with web content just at the moment and have to put up with a cpu hogging dog like flash. Where's my choice man??

      Look I don't expect you to understand the issues because you obviously haven't had the experience of using anything other than PC and I understand your ignorance, but please read up on adobe and flash and don't just follow blindly what you hear or think.

      Quote Originally Posted by agentfubu View Post
      I never said that adobe was bigger than apple, apple caters to a much larger crowd, they're in a completely different market. It's naturally going to have sales. You're comparing apples to oranges.
      Compare adobe to another image editor company's shares.
      If adobe does pull support for apple, people will leave apple. They won't just turn their backs on adobe and buy all new software and train all of their developers on it.
      It's either buy a new OS and keep the same software or buy all new software. You don't need to train someone to use a new OS, but you do for new software.

      I never said it was more than my opinion. I think they're making the wrong choice. But I'm sure there's some other motive (such as money) for making this choice.

      You also keep referring to it as "their" phone or "their" OS. Sure they "own" it, but when I PAY for MY phone I want to be able to use it how I like. That'd be like a car dealer selling cars that only drive when they allow you to and the dealer decides what roads you can drive on.

      If I didn't like the iPhone, I wouldn't be here. It's Apple I'm loosing faith in. I would never buy another phone (unless jailbreaking somehow stopped...). I love the iPhone. So don't tell me to go elsewhere. I bought my phone, I should get a say in it.
      They make the phone and they make the software. I suggest you read the SLA in the user handbook and you'll see the whole lot belongs to Apple. Same goes with Microsoft software, they own it, forever. You only buy a license to use it. Jailbreaking is a breach of the SLA.

      The somewhat overlooked fact that there is no version of Adobe Flash available for iPhone OS, to be run on any processor Apple have installed on their devices seems to escape everybody's attention, and it's not Apple job to write a web plugin for Adobe. They won't let anyone touch their precious flash code, so it's all up to Adobe. If they wanted to push Apple to the bar, they'd write a code for flash on iPhone OS and say, come and get it, then you can trash Apple for not adopting it. God, adobe could only write a half baked flash for Windows mobile and AIM. It's not as fully functioning as the Desktop plugin. So don't say Apple need to work with Adobe. That won't happen either. Plenty of third party programers can code for OSX without Apples help, why not Adobe??

      So all this, ALL THIS, over ONE web browser plugin on a phone???? Does Flash really mean that much to you??? What in particular do you need flash on the iPhone for?????? Wanking games on your phone?

      Out of all the things the iPhone can do for you, it's the lack of flash that makes you hate Apple sooooo much??? REALLY????

      Somehow I don't think Apple care about what you or I think. If it was such a big deal, according to you, then they'd go broke. Ummm I don't think so man.

      "NO FLASH FOR YOU". No Flash on the iPhone. We all knew about that, it's been well known for 3 years. It won't ever happen, so honestly, get over it or get something else and stop whining please. Go to the adobe forums and have a cry there. I won't be making any more comment on this thread. Everyone should know by now what I know, think and believe about flash and adobe. You won't convince me otherwise. Opinion is one thing, the facts are something else. I suggest people inform themselves and do some research and enlighten your selves. I strongly recommend you read this article http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...obe_flash.html and this blog http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=292 Adios !!
    1. ZmanGroup's Avatar
      ZmanGroup -
      ha! wow

      iPhone 4.0 SDK Flash Runtimes
      wow
    1. agentfubu's Avatar
      agentfubu -
      1. There is no choice on web content at the moment, that's what the whole flash vs html5/javascript and css coding debate is all about. Why does anyone who doesn't use a PC have to put up with such a dog like flash, and yes Linux users have exactly the same issues with it. Others are pushing for alternatives but we, according to web Nazis of this world, shouldn't have choice, what's up with that?
      You don't have to use flash. If you hate it so much, don't visit websites that use flash. It's that simple. No one is holding a gun to your head saying "GO TO A FLASH WEBSITE."

      All I want the choice to be able to use it or not. If it runs slow on the iPhone OS, I won't visit sites with flash. At least I have the option.

      2. If you remotely understood the problems with flash, yes even for all you PC people out there, the vulnerabilities it has are just downright wrong. If only you knew the risks it can put your system under. Microsoft Security Advisory (979267): Vulnerabilities in Adobe Flash Player 6 Provided in Windows XP Could Allow Remote Code Execution
      Key word from this article:

      Adobe Flash Player 6
      Flash Player 6 has been out of life for years. The current version is 10.0.45.2 for all systems. Anyone who still has 6 is stupid for not upgrading. There are some security problems with 10+, but they have been fixed quickly.
      Nothing can be perfectly secure, even OSX has security issues every now and then. I'm sure you know about this since you run OSX.

      3. Not according to me, you google flash and OSX issues or linux issues or flash and vulnerabilities, and see what you find. Don't take my word for it. Just ask any Mac user here about flash. Have a read here and the user forum afterwards. AppleInsider | Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash
      I never said flash works great on OSX. But I'm 100% sure that if apple and adobe were to cooperate they could fix everything easily. Why does Flash work so well on windows but not on OSX? Because Apple isn't willing to cooperate with adobe.

      4. "do I even have experience with adobe" F#ck me. I'm in web design, have been for 15 years. I've used solaris, PC's Linux, Macs, you name it, and what I know about Flash in particular, god too many headaches over the years on that one to even think about. I use Photoshop, and did use Acrobat, but that became troublesome on OSX too. Don't misunderstand me, Adobe used to make premium products, but over the last 5 yrs they've slipped, and in particular, on the Unix/Linux products. I don't believe they have the right people working in that area, and it shows.
      I don't know the full history of how the software has worked together because I don't primarily use OSX. I agree with you choosing not to use flash anymore. But why trash it all together?

      5. "have I seen the code" are you an idiot or just practicing? It's proprietary software. The software writers where I work have a pretty good handle on that and if they told me black was white, I'd believe them. I've seen performance benchmarks on flash, running on Vista and OSX. The difference is a big worry.
      The reason why I said that was because you can't just blame it all on "bad code." I obviously know you can't see the code, but all people do today is cry "bad code!" when something doesn't work. It's not always the coders fault.

      6. You can choose flash man, just not on Apple "i" devices, everyone knows that. Buy yourself a device that does what you want, nobody's stopping you. I don't have that choice with web content just at the moment and have to put up with a cpu hogging dog like flash. Where's my choice man??
      Once again this is the same point I made before, you don't have to visit flash websites if you don't want. It's not adobe's fault that people love to use flash. Your problem is with the designers of the websites for only choosing flash, so why take it out on adobe?

      Look I don't expect you to understand the issues because you obviously haven't had the experience of using anything other than PC and I understand your ignorance, but please read up on adobe and flash and don't just follow blindly what you hear or think.
      You're right that I haven't used OSX very much, because I choose not to. That doesn't mean I hate it, it has it's strengths and weaknesses. But I don't think of myself as ignorance, and I certainly don't follow blindly what I hear or think.



      They make the phone and they make the software. I suggest you read the SLA in the user handbook and you'll see the whole lot belongs to Apple. Same goes with Microsoft software, they own it, forever. You only buy a license to use it. Jailbreaking is a breach of the SLA.
      Send me to jail then.

      The somewhat overlooked fact that there is no version of Adobe Flash available for iPhone OS, to be run on any processor Apple have installed on their devices seems to escape everybody's attention .
      Why would they develop that for the iPhone when Apple is just going to decline them?

      So all this, ALL THIS, over ONE web browser plugin on a phone???? Does Flash really mean that much to you??? What in particular do you need flash on the iPhone for??????

      Out of all the things the iPhone can do for you, it's the lack of flash that you hate sooooo much about Apple??? REALLY????

      Somehow I don't think Apple care about what you or I think. If it was such a big deal, according to you, then they'd go broke. Ummm I don't think so man.

      "NO FLASH FOR YOU". No Flash on the iPhone. We all knew about that, it's been well known for 3 years. It won't ever happen, so honestly, get over it or get something else and stop whining please. Go to the adobe forums and have a cry there. I won't be making any more comment on this thread. Everyone should know by now what I know, think and believe about flash and adobe. You won't convince me otherwise. Opinion is one thing, the facts are something else. I suggest people inform themselves and do some research and enlighten your selves. I strongly recommend you read this article AppleInsider | Inside Apple's iPad: Adobe Flash Adios !!
      I don't see why you feel the need to attack me. All I've done is bring up valid points.

      I'm not trying to convince you or anyone, I'm just sharing and defending my own opinions (which is my right).

      I also recommend that people inform themselves, but from un-biased sources. Obviously an article from "appleinsider" will be biased on apple's side. There's many blogs of developers that are un-biased out there, and that's the best place to read.
    1. Evilsaint's Avatar
      Evilsaint -
      pheww wat a thread everything has its advantages and disadvantages
      and so does
      Flash:well its buggy and all + i reli dnt find a need for it on my iphone bt sometimes i do miss its +ses but really if it makes my phone slow idont want it but Adobe is a really good company photoshop cs4 is brilliant and nw that i know how to use it.It will be a pain to switch to another piece of software.I think some people trash apple not because of flash but just because they are tired of apple telling them what they need and the other haters they either cant afford their products or are just jealous....
      Thats just my opinion no offense
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by agentfubu View Post
      All I want the choice to be able to use it or not. If it runs slow on the iPhone OS, I won't visit sites with flash. At least I have the option.
      Here's the thing...IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Apple is NEVER going to use flash for the iPhone, they've already stated this. So there's no reason to come on here and complain that you want to use it! We hear the same thing over and over again, and guess what? It still hasn't changed anything! It's just really annoying! If you want to have a product that has that option there are other phones for you to use.
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      Quote Originally Posted by dale1v View Post
      Why do you all insist on reverting back to the "Apple want to lock down everything I'm leaving Apple" chorus?
      We're coming up to our fourth iteration of iPhone and you all seem to be doing fine without Flash.
      Reason why people revert to "'Apple want to lock down everything I'm leaving Apple" chorus?'" is because the ones that already did it would not be here, and new people that is sick of this will start saying it. Yes not everyone will drop Apple, but think that all people who say this stick around is deceiving yourself. The flash on other phone was just introduced, before that there was no other option.

      Quote Originally Posted by dale1v View Post
      If your phone is your dominant means of internet browsing, maybe it would be the massive debacle many of you love to make it seem, but I'm more than willing to bet that most of you use a desktop or laptop for well over half your browsing, and that the lack of Flash on your phone doesn't impede you that much.
      If it did, you'd have stopped repeating yourselves over the years and found another phone.
      Yes I do use computer browsing mostly, but when I am out bored I may want to browse something and come up to a flash. I was out with people this Thursday and wanted to go to www.uamaiburger.com to use locate a store and I was not able to... That gets frustrating.

      Quote Originally Posted by dale1v View Post
      With or without Steve's "divine teaching", many people across all platforms agree that Adobe Flash is a bloated piece of crap. Yes, I know HTML5 isn't ready to fully replace it yet. HTML5 is also very new. It also doesn't stop Flash from being crap.
      Crap or not it is useful, I run into it all day long so I want to use it. Telling us that it is crap does not stop people from using it and need it.

      Quote Originally Posted by dale1v View Post
      Do you want your account deleted so you can be seen as some kind of anti-Apple martyr? As a middle finger to the site and/or Apple?
      Feel free to get over yourselves. You sitting there and consistently proclaiming to better than these so-called elitists makes you sound just as stupid and pretentious as the very fanboy losers you try to ridicule.
      Ridicule nothing. Some of us want flash, some of us need flash. Ban it does not suddenly make everything ok, it just make people want it more.


      BTW why do people keep telling me what I want and don't want? By your telling me I don't want Flash would I suddenly change my mind about this? NO!
    1. ultimatexpka's Avatar
      ultimatexpka -
      Quote Originally Posted by JJones_86 View Post
      I am just hoping Android kicks Apple's ***** and takes over the market. I am sick of all of apple's restrictions, if there were no jailbreak, I'd have a droid right now.
      What he said.
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      BTW why do people keep telling me what I want and don't want? By your telling me I don't want Flash would I suddenly change my mind about this? NO!
      Do you think by complaining about not having it Apple's going to give it to you? If you haven't figured out by now that it's never going to happen then you're hopeless. If you have figured it out then why keep complaining or talking about it? It's pointless.
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      Quote Originally Posted by steve-z17 View Post
      Do you think by complaining about not having it Apple's going to give it to you? If you haven't figured out by now that it's never going to happen then you're hopeless. If you have figured it out then why keep complaining or talking about it? It's pointless.

      Actually yes there is reason for complaining. If Apple care about their customer service and enough people voice opinion maybe Apple would change its mind. Nothing is hopeless when it is us that spend money to buy products Apple produce, Apple need this money and so does Jobes. Complaints backed by money speaks.
    1. Bunniesandsheep's Avatar
      Bunniesandsheep -
      I agree that flash is buggy, outdated technology. However, this move is still a massive f*ck you to Adobe (a couple DAYS before cs5 launches), and I think that we will miss out on some lovely flash games being ported to the iPhone.

      I love my iPod, it's a great device, and os4 is perhaps showing that apple is changing, but since the moment I jailbroke it's become way better. I will make sure my next iDevice can be jailbroken, otherwise it just isn't worth it.