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  • Jobs Still Talking Smack About Flash: Report


    Apple CEO Steve Jobs, after reportedly calling Adobe "lazy" at an employee "town hall meeting" last month, was allegedly working hard to convince executives at The Wall Street Journal that Flash is "old technology" and that they should avoid it in their online edition. Meanwhile, an Adobe exec defended his company's platform, while acknowledging the truth of Jobs's complaint that Flash takes more CPU cycles to run on Macs than it does on Windows PCs.

    Jobs reportedly continued the blunt language he used in the Apple town hall meeting, saying that Flash is full of bugs and that it crashes Macs. Flash, he said, is a "CPU hog" that has numerous "security holes." Averring that Apple doesn't "spend a lot of energy on old technology," Jobs claimed that the Mac had led the industry in dropping other obsolete technologies like floppy disks, FireWire 400, and non-LED backlit LCDs, and predicted that Flash was headed for the same destiny. He told the execs that Flash support would have cut the iPad's battery life to 90 minutes instead of the 10 hours Apple claims. Jobs urged the Journal execs to move to other rich media standards like embrace H.264-encoded video, which he said would be "trivial" for the paper to implement.

    Adobe Chief Technical Officer Kevin Lynch, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal's BoomTown blogger Kara Swisher on AllThingsDigital, noted that "there's a lot of Flash content on the Web," claiming that "about 85% of the top websites have Flash on their website." He said that he hoped that continued Flash support on Android, Palm, Nokia, and RIM, among other devices "will encourage others" (Apple?) to support it as well. Lynch said that Adobe is working to minimize CPU load during video rendering, acknowledging that the task is more processor-intense for the Mac than for Windows machines.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Jobs Still Talking Smack About Flash: Report started by Paul Daniel Ash View original post
    Comments 82 Comments
    1. pyromcr's Avatar
      pyromcr -
      i do agree with jobs. whenever i use flash on my laptop or desktop, it slows it down so much and uses up so much cpu. i think that it is not that big of a deal for me on the ipad because i mostly only use flash for youtube and there is a youtube app and all...
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      I'm not complaining at all. I'm just stating the facts. The problem is in Apple's court, not Adobe's, not anyone else's. Also, if you get a virus these days you really shouldn't be using a computer, ever. You essentially have to be stupid enough to download attachments from spam emails or visit totally sketchy websites and download stuff from them. They don't just pop up like the common cold. Furthermore, Norton is just as bad as the viruses it supposedly protects against. Free virus programs like Avast and AVG do a better job....for free.

      By the way, I have a phone running Android. It's far superior to iPhone OS at this point and I will be selling my iPhone soon. I might get an iPod Touch just for the games though.
      Well I agree with you on the part of getting a virus, if you get one you probably deserve it, it's not too hard to avoid spam and iffy sites. Unfortunately the world is full of people that aren't too computer smart.

      There are things that I enjoy on my Android phone that the iPhone doesn't have, mostly multi-tasking. But I just can't stand reading ppl complain over and over about how they hate their phone, I'm just thinking in my head, "well do something about it!" cause there's no reason to go through life with something you don't like when you can actually do something about it.

      Edit- I'll keep my Android because I can actually use the 3G with T-Mobile, it definitely comes in handy.
    1. awesomeSlayer's Avatar
      awesomeSlayer -
      Seriously everyone, get a life! If Apple doesn't want Flash, they don't want it. If Apple wants it, they ask Adobe. Your arguments aren't going to do anything anyway. Does it really matter? Anyway, Adobe is attempting to create Flash for the iPad and the iPhone.
    1. NSXrebel's Avatar
      NSXrebel -
      Quote Originally Posted by adp View Post
      Stop acting like a damn Communist by telling us what you want us to do or not. If we want to install flash, let us do it. If we believe it's old/outdated/takes too much memory - then give US the choice to not delete it. I honestly don't care about your opinion that flash is old. But then again, I'm just beating a dead horse here.

      you have the choice, the choice not to buy the iPad or any Apple products. Buy a netbook, and you won't have a problem running flash.
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      Uhh why keep complaining about flash when you can get Apple work with Adobe to make a flash that works well with Mac? Oh! Jobs want a piece of Adobe's pie maybe? Can't wait for HP tablet to come out, buy that over iPad to send a statement to Jobs flash is important.
    1. adp's Avatar
      adp -
      Quote Originally Posted by NSXrebel View Post
      you have the choice, the choice not to buy the iPad or any Apple products. Buy a netbook, and you won't have a problem running flash.
      If your mentality was applied to technology across the board we would not move forward. If what you say is valid then tell Jobs to not call his devices "the most revolutionary" in the market, because they're not. Flash has been used for almost a decade now. Multitasking? I think Windows 3.1 had it almost 20 years ago. So why not tell them to apply your mentality of "going elsewhere" and see why they have 90% of the market share as opposed to 10%.
    1. freakofsociety's Avatar
      freakofsociety -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      So CHAMP. If iTunes run so badly on your pc, so that's microsofts problem. FAIL. Try again, CHAMP!! Your argument us dumb.
      So KROO. If Flash run so badly on your mac, so that's apples problem. FAIL. Try again, KROO!! Your argument us dumb.
    1. Condor.312's Avatar
      Condor.312 -
      It saddens me that as a teen boy i have more sense of what an adult debate should be composed of than almost all of the posters on this thread. You all hide behind the anonymity of the internet and stray from the topics proposed that you might let out your passionate hate for one OS or another, with little pertinence to the topic. Yes, it is likely an unwise move for Jobs to reject Flash as he has done, and a toggle for flash support would be a great compromise. Also, it is good for Jobs to push software companies to create better products, even if they are already doing well on other platforms. I don't understand what it is about internet forums that makes seemingly intelligent people into brutes that would sooner call a person a ****-head or a troll than defend their arguments in a civilized fashion. I am sorry to interrupt the heated debate here, but I feel it needed to be said. Have a little respect for yourself and your fellow posters. All you are doing is getting yourselves riled up over nothing with people you will likely never meet.
    1. rhekt's Avatar
      rhekt -
      it took quite a many years for DVDs to catch on. for all you youngsters out there, we used to watch all our movies on a technology called VHS and before that Beta. OH!? and before Blueray...it was HD. embrace new technology. its allways the future. quit being sniveling little snitches and realize that just because everyone is watching videos on VHS[flash] doesnt mean DVD[H.264-encoded video] isnt within greatness. read between the lines.
    1. SquareWheel's Avatar
      SquareWheel -
      Maybe Flash wouldn't crash their computers if Apple actually worked with Adobe.
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      With two year contracts and ridiculous early termination fees, you are kind of stuck until you can upgrade. I just switched to Verizon and I couldn't be happier. Since my contract isn't up on AT&T I'm just riding it out for the next couple months and selling my iPhone.
      Yeah the termination fees are just unbelievable! But I love that most phone's running Android can be purchased unlocked on ebay or wherever for a decent price, and if you can't buy it unlocked its not hard to unlocked it yourself. Plus with how much you can sell an unlocked iPhone in pretty good condition these days I think you'd have a good down payment for a new phone.

      I upgraded for fun a couple weeks and got one of the last myTouch 3G Special Fender Editions for $180, It's up on ebay right now with the auction at $406 with a day left. I'm thinking of buying a Nexus One to try it out for a month or so to see how it compares.
    1. lolcats1's Avatar
      lolcats1 -
      Quote Originally Posted by hitman10 View Post
      honestly... i agree with steve. Why put your product at risk even more. If flash is messing up the ipad then why put it on? if they did and you got 90mins.. then there would be a thread of you crying how the battery life is short.. its never winning. the answer is to jailbreak it.
      dude you're such an idiot. read what you wrote there. you say: "why put your product at risk", but then go on to say that we should "jailbreak it". do you know why apple tells you not to jailbreak? i guess you don't.

      Quote Originally Posted by steve-z17 View Post
      Yeah the termination fees are just unbelievable!
      hey dude i found a way to terminate your iphone for free dude. check out this link.

      massive ******* hammer - Google Search

      Quote Originally Posted by Condor.312 View Post
      It saddens me i am teen boy... (/end rant)
      way to go dude. you've made yourself look not only incredibly stereotypical, but also moody, in thinking that you're the first teen who "thinks" that he's above the flaws that everyone has.

      as for me speaking my mind, why the farfle do you think forums like this are started?

      wait, wait, i'm getting something!
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      I got a warranty replacement for my broken headphone jack about a week ago and got a brand new iPhone out of it, so I'm excited to see what it goes for on ebay.

      I really want to give the Nexus One a shot, but T-mobile coverage is terrible in my area, and frankly, I'm not going to spend $530 on a phone that I can't use the 3G coverage on (since I'd be stuck with AT&T). I figured my best bet was to go for who DOES have the best coverage out here and switch to Verizon. I'm not looking back.
      Oh man that would be nice to get a new replacement! My iPhone actually is a new replacement phone that I bought on ebay from someone and I paid about $500 w/shipping all together. So I'd imagine you could make at least that much with yours, unless the prices have dropped since then which I doubt.

      Yeah the only problem with finally being able to use 3G coverage is it's soo spotty! Verizon definitely has the best coverage out here, I'd consider using them but I go through too many phone's each year wanting to try them out, and the only way I can do that is by having a GSM carrier with a Sim Card to buy them unlocked or unlock them myself.

      The Nexus One is pretty expensive but with the money I'm making off of the myTouch it won't be too bad. Google certainly has the right idea offering the phone to others that way. I can only imagine if Apple decided to get on board and do that with the iPhone how much money they'd make, definitely a business booster!

      Quote Originally Posted by lolcats1 View Post
      hey dude i found a way to terminate your iphone for free dude. check out this link.

      massive ******* hammer - Google Search
      Haha, effective!
    1. Nickaroni22's Avatar
      Nickaroni22 -
      Flash is here for good!!! So how can they say that the iPad is the best internet surfing device? Thats complete false if it doesn't include Flash. Apple just doesn't like Adobe!!!
    1. NSXrebel's Avatar
      NSXrebel -
      Quote Originally Posted by rhekt View Post
      it took quite a many years for DVDs to catch on. for all you youngsters out there, we used to watch all our movies on a technology called VHS and before that Beta. OH!? and before Blueray...it was HD. embrace new technology. its allways the future. quit being sniveling little snitches and realize that just because everyone is watching videos on VHS[flash] doesnt mean DVD[H.264-encoded video] isnt within greatness. read between the lines.
      you forgot laser disc, 8mm, hi8, vhs-c, etc...

      oh and technically, Beta was superior to VHS. Something about Sony not wanting porn on their format, so the Porn industry went with VHS, and that's how it won over Beta.
    1. lolcats1's Avatar
      lolcats1 -
      Quote Originally Posted by NSXrebel View Post
      wanting porn
      he's got a point there...

      and for all you people hating on flash, check this out. it will CHANGE YOUR LIFE.

      Throw Rocks at ****
    1. michaelgazin's Avatar
      michaelgazin -
      Quote Originally Posted by adp View Post
      Stop acting like a damn Communist by telling us what you want us to do or not. If we want to install flash, let us do it. If we believe it's old/outdated/takes too much memory - then give US the choice to not delete it. I honestly don't care about your opinion that flash is old. But then again, I'm just beating a dead horse here.

      Do you really think Steve Jobs would leave the evolution of technology up to the average brutish consumer? No, and thank god he doesn't.

      To quote a profound...quote:

      "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

      Cheers to Steve Jobs for not degrading himself to the level of the masses.
    1. adp's Avatar
      adp -
      Quote Originally Posted by michaelgazin View Post
      Do you really think Steve Jobs would leave the evolution of technology up to the average brutish consumer? No, and thank god he doesn't.

      To quote a profound...quote:

      "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

      Cheers to Steve Jobs for not degrading himself to the level of the masses.
      To the level of masses? Apple wants mass!! LOL your comment is so retarded! Apple wants more and more people to fuel their profit! If they could clone us they would. This ain't some VIP company we're talking here.
    1. nPoika's Avatar
      nPoika -
      I'm not really a PC biggot or an Apple commie. Both PC's and Macs have their pros and cons. PCs main benefit is the wide range of application it supports but this obviously gives it a massive window of opportunity for security holes and bugs. Macs are extremely over priced and very limited in what you can do with the product. But normally anything that can be done with a mac, will be done very well, with minimal bugs and frustration.

      That said Apple is definitely taking the wrong approach with their iDevices. Flash is mainstream technology that is used every day, for both leisure and productivity. HTML/AJAX/CSS can emulate some aspects of the interactivity however it is quite limited by comparison. Certain applications can be very unstable and cause more browser crashes than their flash counterparts (for me anywyas). Their public opinion that flash is only used for video is obsurd. As it has many professional applications aswell (such as portfolios).

      It would be a little more understandable if Apple had their own propietry web platform that was in direct competition with Adobe flash, but the fact of the matter is they don't. Steve Jobs is just being a stubborn ***. If he were to be a little more open minded and allow Apple to colaborate with Adobe then through co-operation he'd render his own arguements false. That is in my opinion why he won't allow it. He's put his foot in his mouth and isn't too keen on bad publicity.

      This goes for many other aspects of the iDevices. The only thing that's actually got Apple in front is the diverse app store. The hardware of their devices is behind industry standards come each release.

      I saw someone say that Adobe should ditch flash an start from scratch with something 'innovational'. That's the most absurd thing I've heard yet. It took Macromedia/Adobe many years to bring flash to the major platform it is today. This was due to many reason, like technical limitations on consumers (both computer and internet connection) aswell as trust needed to install a plugin. Innovation can easily be found within the upgrades that come every year or so.

      Summin' up. It's Steve's attitude in situations like this that will result in a loss of presence in the market.

      Windows Phone 7 is lookin' pretty spiffy. I'm sure they'll look at the complaints amongst iPhone users and go "K, let's not do that"... Atleast Microsoft have been able to admit when they're wrong ;]

      Oh and for lulz, Adobe Flash Player 10.0.45.2 is listed on the Mac Downloads page at apple.com - as a staff pick! :P
    1. dsg's Avatar
      dsg -
      I agree with Saurik from the the point he makes starting from 'The Next Hope' in the link

      the fact that Apple wants every body to conform to what they want, like locking down the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad and and telling us we don't need flash when some of us actually want it.

      why should I be told what I can and can't have, especialy when it's a device I've spent good money on, Apple should give people a choice, thats why we jailbreak and that is why flash should be an option. not because flash is ****, but that we can chose to have what we want on our devices

      do you buy a car then have to ask the maker where, when and how you can drive it,

      NO!

      so why should Apple or any other software/hardware company tell you what you can and can't do with the product you've bought