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  • Jobs Still Talking Smack About Flash: Report


    Apple CEO Steve Jobs, after reportedly calling Adobe "lazy" at an employee "town hall meeting" last month, was allegedly working hard to convince executives at The Wall Street Journal that Flash is "old technology" and that they should avoid it in their online edition. Meanwhile, an Adobe exec defended his company's platform, while acknowledging the truth of Jobs's complaint that Flash takes more CPU cycles to run on Macs than it does on Windows PCs.

    Jobs reportedly continued the blunt language he used in the Apple town hall meeting, saying that Flash is full of bugs and that it crashes Macs. Flash, he said, is a "CPU hog" that has numerous "security holes." Averring that Apple doesn't "spend a lot of energy on old technology," Jobs claimed that the Mac had led the industry in dropping other obsolete technologies like floppy disks, FireWire 400, and non-LED backlit LCDs, and predicted that Flash was headed for the same destiny. He told the execs that Flash support would have cut the iPad's battery life to 90 minutes instead of the 10 hours Apple claims. Jobs urged the Journal execs to move to other rich media standards like embrace H.264-encoded video, which he said would be "trivial" for the paper to implement.

    Adobe Chief Technical Officer Kevin Lynch, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal's BoomTown blogger Kara Swisher on AllThingsDigital, noted that "there's a lot of Flash content on the Web," claiming that "about 85% of the top websites have Flash on their website." He said that he hoped that continued Flash support on Android, Palm, Nokia, and RIM, among other devices "will encourage others" (Apple?) to support it as well. Lynch said that Adobe is working to minimize CPU load during video rendering, acknowledging that the task is more processor-intense for the Mac than for Windows machines.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Jobs Still Talking Smack About Flash: Report started by Paul Daniel Ash View original post
    Comments 82 Comments
    1. H0rn3t920's Avatar
      H0rn3t920 -
      wait. If flash does not run well on mac and leopard devices when it runs pretty fine on every other system (lol) then wouldnt this mean APPLE is at fault and THEY should improve THEIR products so they can run flash more effectively? I think so. It almost seems like instead of tackling the issue, they just make up excuses to not do anything about it. If flash runs well on other systems and just doesnt work well with macs, then its quite obvious that APPLE is at fault. But apple instead wants either adobe or some other company to create software that works good with macs when adobe already created software that works good with everything else? Flash is such a big part of the internet today and not using it creates a liability for macs. god i hate apple
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by isham.padron View Post
      Flash is a multimedia standard for the web and still has a lot of potential. If they have a problem with it partner up with Adobe and help them improve it. Make it so it runs faster on a mac than on competing machines. Flash isn't going anywhere and apple looks like a fool for not adopting it.

      For anyone who knows: How hard would it be to make a flash plugin for Safari?
      If Adobe made Flash open source, then someone would, be they won't, and it makes Adobe look like the fool for flogging old technology to death. If we can't move forward and innovate new technologies, then we'd all still be using Commodore 64's. Flash is just too buggy and has the potential to be dangerous because of the security failures Adobe refuse to close off. I for one use clicktoflash to block what is 90% advertising. Now I can use Safari without it crashing or ploughing down my CPU. Why is the world so hung up on one web plugin anyway? Why should one company like Adobe have an exclusive hold on web embedded video?
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      Care to cite any sources/examples or are you just going to keep talking out of your *** like a typical Apple fanboy?
      The typical noise from a PC d********. Idiot, Flash is proprietary software and isn't open source. If it was, someone with some real programming skills would fix the holes, but then again, you wouldn't understand any of this. Should I use shorter syllables? D********!

      Watch the profanity - ajl917
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Can't handle the truth? Why so agro dude? Haven't you jerked off to antiques roadshow today?

      I'm sorry, I did mean to hurt your fragile feelings, mommy will give you a tissue.

      Oh, BTW, you asked me for proof of my argument, then what flaw in my comment, and geez, you know what moot is? I'm impressed.

      ActionScript code protection
      Often, Flash developers will decide that while they desire the advantages that Flash affords them in the areas of animation and interactivity, they do not wish to expose their code to the world. However, as with all intermediate language compiled code, once a .swf file is saved locally, it can be decompiled into its source code and assets. Some decompilers are capable of nearly full reconstruction of the original source file, down to the actual code that was used during creation (although results vary on a case-by-case basis).[30][31][32]
      In opposition to the decompilers, ActionScript obfuscators have been introduced to solve this problem. Higher-quality obfuscators implement lexical transformations — such as identifier renaming, control flow transformation, and data abstraction transformation — that make it harder for decompilers to generate output likely to be useful to a human. Lower-quality obfuscators insert traps for decompilers.
      [edit]

      Source:
      [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash]Adobe Flash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
      I assume you can read this?

      Open web versus proprietary plugins
      The proprietary nature of Flash is a concern to advocates of open standards and free software. Its widespread use has, according to some such observers, harmed the otherwise open nature of the World Wide Web.[46] A response may be seen in Adobe's Open Screen Project.
      Representing open standards, inventor of CSS and co-author of HTML5, Håkon Wium Lie explained in a Google tech talk the proposal of Theora as the video codec for HTML 5[47] (see also the Ogg controversy):
      I believe very strongly, that we need to agree on some kind of baseline video format if [the video element] is going to succeed. Flash is today the baseline format on the web. The problem with Flash is that it's not an open standard.
      Representing the free software movement, Richard Stallman stated in a speech in October 2004 that:[48]
      The use of Flash in websites is a major problem for our community.
      Stallman's argument then was that no free players were comparatively good enough. As of February 2010, Gnash and Swfdec have seen very limited success in competing with Adobe's player. Many important and popular websites require users to have a Flash player, sometimes with no fallback for non-Flash web users (e.g. YouTube). Therefore, the lack of a good free Flash player is arguably an obstacle to enjoying the web with free software, and the aforementioned ubiquity of Flash makes the problem very evident for anyone who tries. The continual high ranking of Gnash on the Free Software Foundation's list of high priority projects[49] might indicate the severity of the problem, as judged by the free software community.
      Referring to the web's openness, an essential feature is that web pages as well as the files they consist of are coupled together by human readable text. Similarly, the openness of the internet lies in its protocols. Thus, the common practice by video centric websites of hiding the URL of web embedded multimedia using Flash or Silverlight, obfuscating the URL with JavaScript, or using custom protocols like RTMP (Flash) or MMS (Windows Media streams), may seem threatening to the openness of the web.
      [edit]Privacy

      "A potential vulnerability has been identified in Adobe Flash Player 10.0.12.36 and earlier that could allow an attacker who successfully exploits this potential vulnerability to take control of the affected system. A malicious SWF must be loaded in Flash Player by the user for an attacker to exploit this potential vulnerability. Additional vulnerabilities have been addressed in this update. Adobe recommends users update to the most current version of Flash Player available for their platform."

      From adobes web page. So we should trust them??????????????

      Adobe Flash patch out of band - Patch Thursday? | Chester Wisniewski's Blog

      I rest my case!!!!!!!!
    1. Bunniesandsheep's Avatar
      Bunniesandsheep -
      Loves how we have to give up flash cause it's slow on mac, but must keep iTunes which is more of a CPU hog for me than CS4 or DiRT2.
    1. djarben's Avatar
      djarben -
      Ape is a piece of **** , I always sad this and will stand for it, good design and ideas but to stupid to keep the lead, iPhone was jailbroken and u had mobilecinrma plugin which allowed 60% content to work, imagin flash by adobe, I think Steve knows that if there is a security problem after installing it they don't have the money man power to run protect there own pc, I'm just laughing and there losing my respect , ipad ,,,,, ishit on it =)
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      So a vulnerability in Flash identified 18, that's 18 months ago, that still has not been patched. Time to move forward. It proves why we should have an open standard in web embedded content, not this monopoly that risks our devices. To those who love their flash porn or games, I hope you enjoy the bugs!
    1. dsg's Avatar
      dsg -
      flash being a security issue is flawed, just on the basis that if somebody wants to hack some software they will.

      flash being slow on the mac so lets ditch it, is just Apple trying to control the world
    1. creasy425's Avatar
      creasy425 -
      @kroo-
      ooooooohhhhhhh. Look at the big bad keyboard warrior talkin smack. Maybe if you popped appes nuts out ur mouth for a second you might find time to see that what rota says makes perfect sence. Every OS, pc or mobile can run flash just fine. But apple can't so that makes It adobes fault? Try again champ.
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      So CHAMP. If iTunes run so badly on your pc, is that's microsofts problem? FAIL. Try again, CHAMP!! Your argument is dumb. Flash is different for every device, and their plugin for OSX is rubbish, but what would you know about flash on OSX? NADA, CHAMP!
    1. stoke234's Avatar
      stoke234 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      So CHAMP. If iTunes run so badly on your pc, so that's microsofts problem. FAIL. Try again, CHAMP!! Your argument us dumb.
      "Oh steve, you're right! Flash sucks on my mac! Whats that? Sure I'll get on my knees. Oh you're right, they're a little salty but since you said they were good it must be true!" HAHA It does what its told!!

      Honestly, you can't talk about the evils of adobes proprietary grasp while defending apple. THINK ABOUT IT TROLL....

      I hope apple does ditch flash just so mac users have to buy a PC to properly view their favorite websites lol

      GRRR ARRR "you made fun of my choices and it offended me so i'm gonna flame now!!!" GRRR RAAWWRRR
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Because you idiots don't like the argument, you shout, troll, fanboy. Why would I expect to get common sense from anyone who's only ever used one os platform. Why don't you read the links I sent you rota? No response? You hate because you know nothing else. I pity you all.
    1. TooSlo's Avatar
      TooSlo -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      So CHAMP. If iTunes run so badly on your pc, so that's microsofts problem. FAIL. Try again, CHAMP!! Your argument us dumb.
      Considering applications like MS Office run quite well on macs... I think your logic is bit flawed here.

      If Flash content runs well on the varying hardware and OS combinations for a PC, why hasn't Apple managed to optimize OSX to do the same? Considering the vastly smaller pool of hardware combinations, it seems lazy to not work to give the end user a higher quality experience with the 80%+ websites on the internet.

      All of this just sounds like Jobs has an axe to grind with someone at Adobe.
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Transpose the words 'adobe flash' with 'apple itunes' in this article. You pc bigots would be howling for jobs head on a platter. From memory, this is an article about the bad performance of flash on macs. So what do all you pc bigots know anything about this? I thought so. Any pc users response to this article is nothing more than a TROLL! God I'm glad I switched and didn't become such opinionated Filters are there for a reason - ajl917 like you idiots.
    1. flix's Avatar
      flix -
      This is JUST A SIDE NOTE, nothing about pro/con Flash or iPhone or anything.

      Without a doubt, Adobe products in general, are *very* proprietary and are extremely slow, no matter how good they are and how many people rely on and work with them everyday. Take Photoshop for example - 99% (or whatever number) of graphic designers swear by it. Or Illustrator. Or Acrobat Professional. If you ever used these casually, you'll know what I mean when I say SLOW. From startup to shutdown, everything takes forever.

      If you didn't use any of the above, you sure have Acrobat Reader and some PDFs on your computer. Now please do explain why for the life of me, is it so hard on a multicore/multigigahertz CPU to have a smooth scroll, a no-lag page rendering, a less than several second startup and an even slightly standard control set for this ubiquituous document format we're forced to deal with so often?
    1. Teoyaomqui's Avatar
      Teoyaomqui -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kroo View Post
      Transpose the words 'adobe flash' with 'apple itunes' in this article. You pc bigots would be howling for jobs head on a platter. From memory, this is an article about the bad performance of flash on macs. So what do all you pc bigots know anything about this? I thought so. Any pc users response to this article is nothing more than a TROLL! God I'm glad I switched and didn't become such opinionated a$ like you idiots.

      Can't handle the truth? Why so agro dude?

      Haven't you jerked off to antiques roadshow today?

      I'm sorry, I did mean to hurt your fragile feelings, mommy will give you a tissue.

      To those who love their flash porn or games, I hope you enjoy the bugs!
      Am sorry dude, just to let you know and so you don't start calling me **** stuff, I have a MacPro with 4 processors. I own 2 original iPhones(I dont use) and 2 iPhone 3G.

      Why call people names if you cant win an argument? ie. "bigots, idiots,

      That never wins arguments. Even though they are right.

      That is why my MacPro is now a, yes, VISTA 64 bit ULTIMATE.

      With no problems what so ever since I move to Microsoft.

      I don't have any problems with my Vista partition but on leopard, I get so annoyed I always go back to Vista.

      All We "PC Bigots" are saying give us choices if we want it installed or not.

      CHOICE.
    1. creasy425's Avatar
      creasy425 -
      @kroo- what does iTunes have to do with this debate. I never complained about iTunes.

      I wonder if ur half as badass in real life as you make itself sound on the Internet. I'd love to find out personally.
    1. steve-z17's Avatar
      steve-z17 -
      Quote Originally Posted by adp View Post
      You're caught up in the hype of the cute Apple commercials buddy. Flash has absolutely nothing to do with viruses, which by this day and age, Windows is just as immune to them. Do some research before posting comments like these. Also, the greater the market share (ie. Windows =85%, Mac=10%) the more viruses it will attract.
      They may be "immune" but it's only because a lot of comps running Windows come pre-installed with anti-virus software. Everywhere I look there's offers or deals going on that say if you buy now you get 6 months free of Norton Virus or some other anti-virus software, almost like you have to get it or your computer is screwed. I may have payed more for my MBP but it's because I prefer the OS, and not having to ever worry about viruses is just a bonus.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
      If 10% of the market can't use Flash, and all but one smartphone are going to run it, why should the other 90% of the industry have to be in such a hurry to move away from it?

      How is Adobe lazy at all? It's obviously a problem with OSX. The rest of the world can use it just fine.
      So here's an idea..go get a phone running Android so we don't have to hear you complain about yours...or do you have a good excuse for sticking with the iPhone for so long? Do you really have nothing better to do than come on an Apple Forum and bash on Apple? So tired of ppl just making negative comments about a product they own..get a life and go whine somewhere else.
    1. Raptors's Avatar
      Raptors -
      Omg, this is going to turn into a PC vs Mac fight before we know it

      Calm down everyone, before mods close this thread
    1. Kroo's Avatar
      Kroo -
      Thanks for the lecture but my point has always been how badly flash plugin is for mac then I get all these pc bigots storming in with no idea of the issue and hijacking the forum. If you don't like my sense of humour, I suggest you don't read my posts. Simple. I gather nobody read the links I posted to support my argument. If any mire oc bigots want to troll, I'll jump on them too. Or do we live in a communist community here too?