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  • Samsung and HTC Respond to Apple's Antenna Allegations



    Last Friday, both Nokia and Research in Motion fired back at Apple in the immediate hours following Steve Jobs' press conference to mitigate the severity of the Death Grip, announce a free case program, and generalize the iPhone 4's antenna issues to the smartphone industry as a whole. As expected, the mobile phone makers that Apple called out did not respond favorably to the sweeping allegations made to the entire world.

    And today, both HTC and Samsung have responded to claims that their products have similar if not worse antenna and reception problems. The Wall Street Journal is where HTC turned to get their message across to everyone: poor reception and dropped calls due to improperly holding a phone aren't as widespread and universal as Apple made them appear to be. Hui-Meng Cheng, the company's CFO, said that "the reception problems are certainly not common among smartphones." Adding that Apple should correct its design flaws and leave competitors out of the argument, Cheng concluded that Apple "apparently didn't give operators enough time to test the phone."

    It should be noted, however, that Daring Fireball responded to HTC's statement Monday by reference a portion of HTC's instruction manual for the Droid Eris which clearly states (and punctuates with a photo) that the device shouldn't be touched or held over the part of the device where the antenna is housed. From the manual: "Avoiding contact with the antenna area when the phone is IN USE optimizes the antenna performance and the battery life."



    Samsung, meanwhile, also has a stake in this fight as Apple called out the Omnia II and pointed to analogous reception bugs. Samsung, however, wanted to make it clear in a statement today that the company simply "hasn't received significant customer feedback on any signal reduction issue for the Omnia II." The terse response from Samsung followed Apple's hands-on demonstration of the similarly "flawed" Omnia II last week.

    Apple, which has sold in excess of three million iPhone 4s since last month, will distribute free cases to every iPhone 4 customer through Sept. 30 - a move that Apple is obviously hoping will put the "Death Grip" issue to rest once and for all.

    Wall Street Journal
    Daring Fireball
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Samsung and HTC Respond to Apple's Antenna Allegations started by Michael Essany View original post
    Comments 120 Comments
    1. Forgoten Dynasty's Avatar
      Forgoten Dynasty -
      If all phones do this why didn't they demo the 3g or previous iphones instead of only bashing other phones.
    1. Cokeman's Avatar
      Cokeman -
      Does anyone here not see that by the time the cases are available from Apple's website. The 30 day return period will be over. Late this week you can order your case/bumper. By the time it is delivered it will be to late for most people
    1. enjoimike69's Avatar
      enjoimike69 -
      there just trying to take some of the blame of them by saying o its a problem in all smart phones which may or may not be true but its still a **** move
    1. Iman07's Avatar
      Iman07 -
      Quote Originally Posted by rpgpromaster View Post
      No, They should have, Every phone looses signal when a hand is placed over a antenna and the reason why I think that "everyone" has complained about the "death grip" is because apple have sold over 3M iPhone 4s and most cellphone companys don't sell half that many on one type/model of a phone.
      And because apple over the past few years have grown massive in such a shot time have gained the reputation of the iPhones being very good and everyone wanting them as soon as they are released. That will causes problems like thousands of people complaining that they have a problem.
      But a thousand is a very large number of people, But what people don't understand is 1000 out of 3 million is actually very small. so even if 1 thousand people complain, to other companys they is like "wow there must be something terribly wrong with there phone if that many people are complaining" but in fact out of the 3 mill people only a few thousand complain.... common guys, that's a low number in comparison to the total units sold isn't it, just stop complaining, apple are trying to do a fix and if that fix doesn't work then they will re-evaluate and maybe add a material over the antenna, change the design or the free case might solve the issue.

      Im not saying the iPhone 4 doesn't have any problems because it does but so does other companys phones, they are just annoyed that apple have announced that there phones have a problem as well, they could have given out free cases also but, oh no they couldn't do that now could they, they need all the time they can get to write a meaningless response to apple. (btw I am not a apple fan boy :P)

      Ok rant over, sorry if I didn't make my self clear in that. (I got a bit confused while typing it )
      You wreak of fanboy-ism. The point of this topic is that Apple shouldn't have brought everyone else into the mix. The way I saw them holding the other phones, it looked like they were squeeze extra hard to make their point. I have a nexus one, and i hold my phone around the same place where Apple's antenna is, that just how I hold my phone naturally. If I had an iPhone 4 and I held my phone the same way that I hold my nexus, and i lose signal, you better believe I would be pissed. But the way they were holding the blackberry phone and the droid, who the hell cuffs their hand around the phone like that. The point is that it is a problem, and just because you dont complain doesnt mean that the problem doesnt exist. Do I call tech support every time I have an issue with a product? I either return it or I try some other way of fixing it. Their statistics are ******** and I never believe what they say. They base it regarding how many people called regarding the problem. That is to say that every apple rep documented every time someone called and never missed a single time. I call BS. Apple's data always seemed crooked in some way, like they just through a number out there that looks good and gives them a good image. Anyway, point is they should fix the **** and not bring everyone else into the mix. If they wanted a real test, hold the blackberry, omnia, and eris the EXACT same way you would hold your iphone, in my case around the same spot i hold my nexus and the spot where the antenna is on the iphone 4. i doubt they would all respond the same. therefore, apple should focus on their mistake and how THEIR customers hold THEIR phones and stop trying to sweep everything under the rug. Just cuz, according them, every phone has this issue, doesnt make it okay that the phone is not working right.


      FYI THE DROID SOLD MORE THAN 3 Million phones and surpassed apple.
    1. mortopher's Avatar
      mortopher -
      Quote Originally Posted by Iman07 View Post
      FYI THE DROID SOLD MORE THAN 3 Million phones and surpassed apple.
      Which Droid?

      If you say the X, you're a liar.

      If you say the original, then I guess it's someone else's turn in the obvious game.
    1. Iman07's Avatar
      Iman07 -
      Quote Originally Posted by paganizonda83 View Post
      Which Droid?

      If you say the X, you're a liar.

      If you say the original, then I guess it's someone else's turn in the obvious game.
      the original droid. the x just came out like 4 days ago.
    1. thevmax's Avatar
      thevmax -
      Quote Originally Posted by rhekt View Post
      The only reason these other phone companies havnt been in the media spotlight about their reception issues previously is due to the fact that they DON'T SELL millions of phones in a one month span. They're just upset that their issue is being brought to the spotlight. Whereas it was previously swept quite cleanly under the carpet and dealt with it on a case by case issue. OF COURSE THEY'RE NOT HAPPY apple called them out. DOESNT MEAN IT'S NOT TRUE
      You are missing the point.

      Apple is deflecting the problem to other companies!

      Their design is different, unique, etc.
      They have an obligation to their customers to fix real world problems.

      If they don't...the rest of us won't buy the product.

      SAYING that other smartphones have antenna problems does not fix THEIR PROBLEM, even if it was true!
    1. RaiV3R's Avatar
      RaiV3R -
      Apple should uphold their responsibility and not blame others for their shoddy build quality on the new iPhone 4. You think after all this time, they would have had the iphone equation better than ever before.

      This is why I hate Apple, their such a 'perfect' company.
    1. robertr1's Avatar
      robertr1 -
      Good it was a **** move by apple to bash other phones when they have a problem. Suck it up and fix it instead of acting like a bunch of little kids with a problem and saying "but... but... everyone has the problem too..."
    1. bruinsrme's Avatar
      bruinsrme -
      Quote Originally Posted by ALAN523 View Post
      @everyone
      yall making a huge deal. i have no problem with mine.
      there you have it @everyone. Alan doesnt have a problem so it's must be a non-issue
    1. Cer0's Avatar
      Cer0 -
      They were not bashing anyone they were just proving a point. Yes it does suck that they named names. But people recognize those brand names.
    1. tudtran's Avatar
      tudtran -
      Good business strategy from apple. Drag eveybody down with it.
    1. alexevo's Avatar
      alexevo -
      I was able to replicate this on a Verizon phone and a non-iPhone AT&T phone, etc. It seems to be that although it can be replicated RIM/Nokia/HTC/Samsung just didn't like getting called out on it. When you're as high profile as Apple is, people are going to take shots at you but sometimes the only way to prove that your product's issues are not limited to that product are by dragging in your competitors to show they have the same issues. Its kinda shady and underhanded but sometimes that is the only way.
    1. mwr_allen's Avatar
      mwr_allen -
      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      I did own one and I returned it because "bumper" solution is unacceptable, though I got my money back where is my money I spent on iPhone 4 apps? How am I getting that back?

      Oh! Let me remind you, Jobs admitted the faulty design. So in actuality everyone who owns iPhone 4 have this issue, just that you have not run into it.
      I don't understand why you didn't just take your iPhone 4 back and ask for a new one that didn't have this issue, you could have proved the issue to the Apple store staff (if you actually had one at all) and they would have given you one without any problems and then you wouldn't have had to lose your money that you invested in it's apps, secondly if you didn't want to stay with the iPhone 4 you could have gone with a 3GS and continued to use those apps you bought.

      Also in that press conference Steve Jobs didn't "admit" a design issue, he said "we screwed up on our algorithm" meaning that their software slightly out from what it should have been. If he had "admitted" a design issue then he would have under huge pressure to recall iPhone 4's.
    1. gQstatus05's Avatar
      gQstatus05 -
      The guys hands are red from squeezing the phone so hard. Look at his thumb.
    1. mortopher's Avatar
      mortopher -
      Quote Originally Posted by mwr_allen View Post
      I don't understand why you didn't just take your iPhone 4 back and ask for a new one that didn't have this issue, you could have proved the issue to the Apple store staff (if you actually had one at all) and they would have given you one without any problems
      No, they wouldn't have.

      Quote Originally Posted by cerote View Post
      They were not bashing anyone they were just proving a point. Yes it does suck that they named names. But people recognize those brand names.
      What I take issue with is their misdirection by pointing the finger at the competition. Yes, cell phones can lose reception when held certain ways, that's a fact. However, the iPhone does have a design flaw in it's external antenna; otherwise, the problem wouldn't be resolvable by simply applying a piece of nonconductive tape over the lower left side. All Jobs' did was try and pull the wool over our eyes and completely avoid the issue at hand.
    1. Cer0's Avatar
      Cer0 -
      True but since SJ mentioned someone to make a band-aid someone did.







      5$ for a 6 pack.


      Sorry but that is what made me laugh this morning checking the tech sites.
    1. ErikiPhone's Avatar
      ErikiPhone -
      Even though issue with "do not touch in certain places" existed, he should've thought that this is simply childish to point at competitors in a situation like this. He looked pathetic and stupid... and the company as well...
    1. Apple.'s Avatar
      Apple. -
      Quote Originally Posted by paganizonda83 View Post
      No, they wouldn't have.



      What I take issue with is their misdirection by pointing the finger at the competition. Yes, cell phones can lose reception when held certain ways, that's a fact. However, the iPhone does have a design flaw in it's external antenna; otherwise, the problem wouldn't be resolvable by simply applying a piece of nonconductive tape over the lower left side. All Jobs' did was try and pull the wool over our eyes and completely avoid the issue at hand.
      "there is no design flaw"

      In the press conference Steve said they knew about this issue.

      It's just more noticeable because there is a split in the antenna that shows where "the magic spot" is.

      If the antenna didn't have this split in the lower corners you wouldn't know where it is on the left spot hence why he said x marks the spot.

      Another argument against your points that I keep bringing up and no one seems to answer.

      What if the iPhone 4 came with the bumpers permanently on from the factory. You wouldn't be complaining about it then.

      The solutions are there.

      ALL phones do it. It is not a design flaw. Live with it or move to another phone that will have the same type of problem.

      Apple did the right and smart thing by proving their data with evidence.

      Get a case and use your phone or return it and get your money back.

      @the person who is saying he returned his i4 but is trying to justify his arguments about apps he purchased and why he doesn't receive a refund.

      That's like saying you buy a windows based computer. Buy different applications for it. Turns out you don't like the computer so you return it. Now you paid for all these applications that are useless. And complaining that u should get a refund for these apps as well.

      BUYING these applications you should know they only work with that platform. It is not apples responsibility for you to know that. It's pretty much a given.
    1. Moosestache's Avatar
      Moosestache -
      Quote Originally Posted by Apple. View Post
      "there is no design flaw"

      In the press conference Steve said they knew about this issue.

      It's just more noticeable because there is a split in the antenna that shows where "the magic spot" is.

      If the antenna didn't have this split in the lower corners you wouldn't know where it is on the left spot hence why he said x marks the spot.

      Another argument against your points that I keep bringing up and no one seems to answer.

      What if the iPhone 4 came with the bumpers permanently on from the factory. You wouldn't be complaining about it then.

      The solutions are there.

      ALL phones do it. It is not a design flaw. Live with it or move to another phone that will have the same type of problem.

      Apple did the right and smart thing by proving their data with evidence.

      Get a case and use your phone or return it and get your money back.

      @the person who is saying he returned his i4 but is trying to justify his arguments about apps he purchased and why he doesn't receive a refund.

      That's like saying you buy a windows based computer. Buy different applications for it. Turns out you don't like the computer so you return it. Now you paid for all these applications that are useless. And complaining that u should get a refund for these apps as well.

      BUYING these applications you should know they only work with that platform. It is not apples responsibility for you to know that. It's pretty much a given.
      Listen fanboy,

      #1 the place where the death grip occurs is exactly where 99% of right handed people put their hand, that is one of the biggest problems.

      #2 The signal loss is much greater than with any other cell phone out there, including past generations of iphones.

      #3 Apple did not advertise to the people who bought the iphone that there would be a very good chance they would need to use a case or they would have a serious problem with dropping calls. In fact they advertised that the reception was better than any previous iphone.

      #4 In all likely hood the lawsuits floating around right now will eventually be joined together and apple will end up settling for a large amount of money. One of the reasons they will have to pay out is because people bought applications and accessories that they can't return even if they can return their iphone. Any judge will look at that and agree that apple is to some extent liable for those issues, and costs. That is why we have courts, and why companies are held accountable for both their advertising as well as how their products function.

      If however, the Iphone 4 had come with bumpers attached, or with bumpers included, and a warning stating that if used without a case or bumper you will lose signal, then apple would have had no or very little liability. Hiding the issue from buyers, then admitting they knew about it only serves to hurt them in court.