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  • RIM, Nokia Fire Back at Apple

    As expected, the smartphone manufacturers that Apple dragged into its own iPhone 4 reception mess have not responded favorably to the sweeping accusations made by Apple chief Steve Jobs during Friday's much talked about press conference. During the presentation in which Jobs announced a free case distribution program for iPhone 4 owners, a very large target was made out of Apple's biggest competitors in the smartphone marketplace.

    Alluding to the infamous Death Grip, Jobs said this sort of thing "doesn't just happen to the iPhone." In fact, he boldly asserted that the likes of "Nokia, Motorola and other phones" have the same nagging issue. He then went on to demonstrate how the BlackBerry Bold 9700 and the Samsung Omnia II similarly lose bars when held improperly. Following the presentation, Apple.com unveiled a whole new wing to the site that is pretty much exclusively dedicated to explaining that other smartphones also have fatal reception problems. In fact, this is just about the most attention Apple has ever given to its competition. Of course, none of this attention is positive. And, as a result, there are some angry executives at competing companies that are firing back at Cupertino less than twenty-four hours since Apple fired the first shot.

    Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie - the CEOs of RIM (the makers of Blackberry) - issued a formal and scathing response to Apple's harsh critiques.

    Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple.
    Shortly after RIM's chief executives issued choice words to Apple, Nokia followed suit, offering the following:

    Antenna design is a complex subject and has been a core competence at Nokia for decades, across hundreds of phone models. Nokia was the pioneer in internal antennas; the Nokia 8810, launched in 1998, was the first commercial phone with this feature. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying human behavior, including how people hold their phones for calls, music playing, web browsing and so on. As you would expect from a company focused on connecting people, we prioritize antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict. In general, antenna performance of a mobile device/phone may be affected with a tight grip, depending on how the device is held. That’s why Nokia designs our phones to ensure acceptable performance in all real life cases, for example when the phone is held in either hand. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying how people hold their phones and allows for this in designs, for example by having antennas both at the top and bottom of the phone and by careful selection of materials and their use in the mechanical design.
    Other smartphone makers tossed under the bus by Apple are yet to respond. But something tells us they are hard at work this weekend preparing a well-crafted response to the far-reaching jabs Apple took on Friday to distract from the iPhone 4 "Death Grip" that Steve Jobs maintains is vastly overblown in the press.

    This article was originally published in forum thread: RIM, Nokia Fire Back at Apple started by Michael Essany View original post
    Comments 248 Comments
    1. zYxMa's Avatar
      zYxMa -
      I can't understand how many people actually believed Steve yesterday. It's devastating. I'm glad nokia hit back.

      I've been using nokia phones since 1998 and I've had no reception problems at all. But that's in europe.

      edit: this is pathetic what apple fanboys say. Any1 having issues is an idiot. Just great!
    1. btung's Avatar
      btung -
      Quote Originally Posted by h4ndcuffed View Post
      It's not 1,500 out of 3 million. That's just the count of the people who complained...take into account the other million that tried calling to complain but dropped their calls, or the rest that have the problem, saw there was a documented issue and chose not to waste an hour on the phone waiting to hear "you should get a bumper". I knew my phone had a problem because I keep up with the news, but it was pointless to call and complain...however I was brutally honest with friends and coworkers that asked "is it worth it? Do u like it". "yes. I love it, it's a million times better than my 3G, all features have become more efficient and aesthetically pleasing, however as a phone, without my case it blows otherwise it's well worth the $200 upgrade.".

      Apple's behavior throughout this ordeal is horrendous, however the product IMO is great. Not meaning to argue just give other views. Have a great day all.
      I see your point there. I was just calculating based in "cold hard facts". I have a 3G and i can replicate this death grip issue by cupping the bottom of the phone in my hand. Whereas I can hardly effect my iP4. But you can bet your anus that I will be getting a free case
    1. bunnywhi7e's Avatar
      bunnywhi7e -
      This thread starter should be permanently banned.
    1. evasivenotraKcs's Avatar
      evasivenotraKcs -
      It is sad to see apple respond by trying to fault other companies to minimize their issues. The whole part of the site dedicated to antennae issues is just admittance and a childish way of doing so. Definitely epic.
    1. LuisAKANewt's Avatar
      LuisAKANewt -
      whooo war!!! why don't they stop messing around with one damn problem and join forces the make the ultimate phone! that would be epic..
    1. eZStaR's Avatar
      eZStaR -
      Quote Originally Posted by eortizr View Post
      Apple is so lame... they can not compete with RIM in antenna or battery design...
      Battery design? Apple are experts at making all their devices last almost 2x if not 3x longer than ANY other device in the MARKET. Now lets compare

      1) Droid = Horrible Battery life, crappy android programming kills it. Look at reviews Im not going to explain my self in detail over and over.
      2) Evo, even WORSE battery life, in a review done by engadget showed the Evo from 75% battery life and gone down to 30% in 7 minutes. Explain? Did you see how long the iPhone battery lasts?
      3) Any of Apples laptops, all have 9-10 hour battery life. Now please tell me, how many laptops are there in the world which such epic battery specifications.

      Reason I am not comparing Bold 9700 is because its not a multi touch smart phone in the same area as the iPhone or Droid etc. SO battery life cannot be compared in such fashion.

      Maybe this will make you and other users understand LOL

      Also this is for EVERYONE, understand this only 1.7% of users are having the "death grip" problem. Now do some math, 100% - 1.7% = ? I'm quite sure this is not a BIG issue. Now, this whole thing is just related to AREA. As explained by engadget, consumer reports, Apple and so on.
    1. wareagle5693's Avatar
      wareagle5693 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Beastlee View Post
      I can't believe Apple's BS on this. I've had countless phones and none of them, including my current 3GS have had issues with the antenna, no matter how I hold them.
      I'm yet to order an iPhone4 for a number of reasons, this isn't really one of them TBH. I'm more concerned with the issue that iOS4 has broken the USB connectivity to a number of car head units and accessories, something that is a basic function of the device but seems to have been lost amid the antenna reports. Without this function any device with iOS4 on is useless to me, I'm not buying a new 500 stereo just for a software update, 6 months after buying my current one.
      No it hasn't... my iPhone 4 works just fine with my Pioneer headunit that is 2 years old. If you were using the iOS 4 beta, it didn't connect with headunits. But that's it.

      So that's not an excuse now. haha
    1. Silverado87's Avatar
      Silverado87 -
      Quote Originally Posted by alectra82 View Post
      My iphone 4 is not affected by the way I hold it. It has had the best reception of most phones I have had, and I work in a basement of a 20 story building. I will sure as hell take my free bumper though.
      Agreed. I'm sick and tired of this crap. I do to have the reception problem but I have a case. Who wouldn't have a case? So no reception drops here even if it does drop to 1 bar I still get calls and texts and no breakups though. If you don't like your phone take it back. Just what's so hard about complaining about something and then dealing with it. I like apple but this HUGE THING over nothing is starting to make me think otherwise about another apple iPhone 5. There computers are awesome but if it's a software fix then fine so be it. Let's see if it works. Alot of people are pissed off and all Steve has to do is just do what's right. And get it over with. I'm a little upset with Steve
    1. yentrog31's Avatar
      yentrog31 -
      "WHY ARE YOU BLAMING ME"...all the other kids could have done it..why me? Well we expect more out of you since you hold yourself to a higher standard. So now Apple wants to be held to the same standard as it's competitors.I always thought they wanted to better than them? The reason I got an iPhone and then an iMac was 'THEY' are better..I guess NOT anymore says Steve JobsU. We are all in the same boat says he we all drop calls and bars...wow..thx Steve for the mediocrity.
    1. macimaster's Avatar
      macimaster -
      Quote Originally Posted by nicksti View Post
      Apple haters blowing this out of proportion? Get real. You have people in this very thread that have owned the 2G, 3G, and 3GS and are dissappointed with the 4. How can you be a hater if you have owned every iPhone to come out.

      Also, why do we have documented evidence pre this firestorm of antenna engineers stating the iPhone's external antenna design is a cause of concern?

      This happens to every smartphone and not many people are complaining? Then why give away free stuff? And notice how we were given only a percentage of people who purchased AppleCare that complained about reception issues. How many people actually buy AppleCare?
      Because they have to be seen like they are doing something! Otherwise haters like yourself will carry on ripping into them for no reason...and they need to show that they do care...but there's not much they can do about it because every phone does it you tit.

      I have had all phones since the first, and the iPhone 4 is the best by far, I've had no problems whatsoever, Some people on here obviously have no idea how companies work otherwise they wouldn't keep posting these ridiculous statements about AppleCare and why they are giving bumpers give it a second thought before you start blabbering off about it..
    1. rocky5's Avatar
      rocky5 -
      OK since we don't know the exact amount of iPhone4's have been sold i done some calculating.

      now based on the 3 days, they sold 1.7mil so for the other 19 days its been out i added up 1.7mil then halved it so they sold half each day (they prob sold more)

      1.7mil * 19 / 2 = 16 150 000 + 1 700 000 = 17 850 000

      1.7% of 17 850 000 = 303 450
      0.55% of 17 850 000 = 98 175

      Total = 401.625

      so this is what apple are saying are the results of phone being taken back and people phoning in saying there guffed.

      its probable more than that but hey Apple aren't going to say so it would hurt them to much.

      Oh an every one saying i can do this on my 3G or 3Gs go some where else i have 2 bars in my house and i loose none if i cover the damn phone with both hands though i do loose all signal if i cover it in tinfoil.
    1. Buckmaster's Avatar
      Buckmaster -
      I really like my iPhone 4, rather not have a case, but can live with, just got a Vroom case, feel better about it now If I do drop my phone. BUT, sometimes the screen comes on when talking, this has to be fixed. Was talking last night, and the other person start asking if I was there, my check hit the mute button while talking. This has happened 8 or 10 times before, if not mute, some other app like the camera. I have not updated to 4.0.1 yet. Does the up date take care of this, or should I return the phone for another one?
    1. kyevey's Avatar
      kyevey -
      Quote Originally Posted by jius View Post
      Perhaps apple need some lefthanded scientists to avoid this problem and their now tarnished reputation.
      Left Handed + pre-ordered naked iPhone4 + Death Grip = No Loss of Signal for me.

      I have had my iPhone4 since June 23rd and haven't had a problem. I have bought an iPhone every year since they have come out and every year the product has been significantly improved, whether by hardware or software.

      Other than on the news and forums, I have yet to see an iPhone 4 (in person) display Loss of Signal due to the death grip. Sounds more like a manufacturing problem affecting select phones. Maybe Apple needs to re-Validate their manufacturing process.

      All cell phones have issues, whether it's hardware, software, or a lack of functionality. No product is perfect otherwise there would be no need for further technological advancements. Analyzing flaws can help improve a product, but dwelling on a single "known" flaw creates narrow vision that loses sight of what really matters.

      A product is a product. You either like it or you don't. Luckily if you don't, there isn't a lack of demand for it.
    1. Luppin's Avatar
      Luppin -
      Quote Originally Posted by 6309phone View Post
      > Really don't see myself buying the iPhone 5 after all this.

      Fantastic! Great!
      Did you really just try to make an >implication on a non-futaba website? Get out.
    1. scooby4's Avatar
      scooby4 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Varmit View Post
      You know what, I have a solution to everyones problem. Forget the bumpers, forget how you hold it with your hands. This should work PERFECT.


      Lol...I bet then the proximity sensor would come into play and **** up too...
    1. speedtime's Avatar
      speedtime -
      This is a BIG BS from Apple ! I have been holding back from buying iPad + iPhone 4 till now, looks like they will not be getting my biz. I will prefer to support others than Apple from now on and hope other will do the same to teach Apple a lesson !
    1. willie498's Avatar
      willie498 -
      I can't believe that they could try to bring in other phone companies for there own issue. If they made a mistake, this ISN'T the time to be ganging up on the other phone companies and trying once again to make themselves look cool. Just fix the problem, stop trying to cause lawsuits again....
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      RIMs response was very well written. Polite but very mean and aggressive at the same time. Apple is in a spot it's never been before and they are really effing this up by dragging others onto it.
    1. RileyFreeman's Avatar
      RileyFreeman -
      i dont understand how these guys can respond when he showed proof. unless you are going to claim that he altered your phone (neither nokia, or im did this) then your just responding for no reason.

      there's a battle rapper who said this and i think it applies

      "you screaming for no reason, you Samuel Jackson"
    1. eZStaR's Avatar
      eZStaR -
      Quote Originally Posted by roshansri View Post
      Hey moron, listen your like the biggest apple fan out there from what you just posted, let me shed some light under that rock you live in. First off none of the rim phones let alone nokia I have tested and sold have any issues and this so called death grip. I am so suprised that you got couple of morons on this site point fingers and say its rite on apple's case to call in big guns by pointing fingers. let alone say this death grip is blow out of proportion, when a customer buys a product they have expectation, this is not a small issue we are talking about calls being dropped with this death grip, you are not buying a ipod touch here, empasis on the word "phone" hence people are frustrated cause of this what good is this if you got calls being dropped. Second we just cant turn a blind eye to the fact that oh everything is fixed just add the bumper to the phone its wrong when you build a unit build it rite. When they introduced the ip4 even steave jobs had issues with connecting to the wireless and he blames the crowd for having too many users using there wifi come on what a load of bull. When a company clearly knows that they messed up you they should just simply apologize for their stupidity instead of looking like idiots!!! For all the apple fan boys everyone has the rite to complain or boast just dont go trash talking about other users opinion. Sure apple f'uped but i still like apple some people might not. After this its there choice whether they like apple or not. shut up and just deal with it. P.S Apple you really did mess this one up but steve know matter how old you get and how dum you get you'll still make money so just own up to your mistake moron:!
      Okay Nokia fanboy. Let me shed some light under that rock you live in. 3 Words.

      Matters On Area.

      Understand? People who are getting these "death grip problems" = 1.7%, live in areas with low reception. And Apple just used those phones to prove they are in a low reception area and they lose bars, just like the iPhone. Understand? It doesn't matter if you tested and sold your phones and checked if they were fine or not. You are not in a low reception area.

      You call Steve jobs dumb? I'm quite sure you were dropped on your head as a child.