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  • RIM, Nokia Fire Back at Apple



    As expected, the smartphone manufacturers that Apple dragged into its own iPhone 4 reception mess have not responded favorably to the sweeping accusations made by Apple chief Steve Jobs during Friday's much talked about press conference. During the presentation in which Jobs announced a free case distribution program for iPhone 4 owners, a very large target was made out of Apple's biggest competitors in the smartphone marketplace.

    Alluding to the infamous Death Grip, Jobs said this sort of thing "doesn't just happen to the iPhone." In fact, he boldly asserted that the likes of "Nokia, Motorola and other phones" have the same nagging issue. He then went on to demonstrate how the BlackBerry Bold 9700 and the Samsung Omnia II similarly lose bars when held improperly. Following the presentation, Apple.com unveiled a whole new wing to the site that is pretty much exclusively dedicated to explaining that other smartphones also have fatal reception problems. In fact, this is just about the most attention Apple has ever given to its competition. Of course, none of this attention is positive. And, as a result, there are some angry executives at competing companies that are firing back at Cupertino less than twenty-four hours since Apple fired the first shot.

    Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie - the CEOs of RIM (the makers of Blackberry) - issued a formal and scathing response to Apple's harsh critiques.

    Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple.
    Shortly after RIM's chief executives issued choice words to Apple, Nokia followed suit, offering the following:

    Antenna design is a complex subject and has been a core competence at Nokia for decades, across hundreds of phone models. Nokia was the pioneer in internal antennas; the Nokia 8810, launched in 1998, was the first commercial phone with this feature. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying human behavior, including how people hold their phones for calls, music playing, web browsing and so on. As you would expect from a company focused on connecting people, we prioritize antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict. In general, antenna performance of a mobile device/phone may be affected with a tight grip, depending on how the device is held. That’s why Nokia designs our phones to ensure acceptable performance in all real life cases, for example when the phone is held in either hand. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying how people hold their phones and allows for this in designs, for example by having antennas both at the top and bottom of the phone and by careful selection of materials and their use in the mechanical design.
    Other smartphone makers tossed under the bus by Apple are yet to respond. But something tells us they are hard at work this weekend preparing a well-crafted response to the far-reaching jabs Apple took on Friday to distract from the iPhone 4 "Death Grip" that Steve Jobs maintains is vastly overblown in the press.

    InformationWeek
    This article was originally published in forum thread: RIM, Nokia Fire Back at Apple started by Michael Essany View original post
    Comments 248 Comments
    1. joe747's Avatar
      joe747 -
      Lol really love how RIM and Nokia cleared their names. Phone war....round 1....fight!!!
    1. taz1981m's Avatar
      taz1981m -
      First thing. love this news I hope to see what the other companies say as well.

      Ok so I have had all the iPhones and have loved each one more than the last. Including the iPhone 4. With that said. If I go up the street from my house I can not get less than 5 bars even with a bearhug grip.

      But at my house I a have 3-4 bars and I can make it drop all of them and a call with placing it on my desk and putting one finger on the left side. With my 3GS and 3G I have tried everything to make the bars go down and drop calls in my house and it won't happen.

      I would have liked a better fix than "here throw a bummper on it" but there is no way any company would recall a product that is not dangerous or is not a complete lemon

      So I am really hoping they have a case that will compliment the phone because it is so sweet looking. Also I hope the case does help in my house.

      One other thing I am not completely sure apple is all to blame on this. If AT&T had stronger signal not so many people would have the "death grip". Like I said I got up the street and I couldn't for the life of me get it to loose any signal.
    1. yentrog31's Avatar
      yentrog31 -
      Well I'll be danged..I thought this was a bunch of hokum...but I took my 3GS which I almost always have 5 bars(I live in a very good reception area here in Tx)..and did the 'death grip' and I went from 5 to 3 to zero to edgeI always use a case so I never realized it before..but maybe SJ is right.I think the press conf sucked cause a new can of worms has been opened.I can see the commercials now.."buy our phone you can hold it anyway you like"...but my 3GS does lose bars and I was surprised at that...glta
    1. Varmit's Avatar
      Varmit -
      You know what, I have a solution to everyones problem. Forget the bumpers, forget how you hold it with your hands. This should work PERFECT.

      Comments?

    1. DontBeJealous's Avatar
      DontBeJealous -
      Quote Originally Posted by yentrog31 View Post
      Well I'll be danged..I thought this was a bunch of hokum...but I took my 3GS which I almost always have 5 bars(I live in a very good reception area here in Tx)..and did the 'death grip' and I went from 5 to 3 to zero to edgeI always use a case so I never realized it before..but maybe SJ is right.I think the press conf sucked cause a new can of worms has been opened.I can see the commercials now.."buy our phone you can hold it anyway you like"...but my 3GS does lose bars and I was surprised at that...glta
      That's what I'm saying. Phones have always done this. People just look for any reason to bash Apple and their products. It's a shame.
    1. taz1981m's Avatar
      taz1981m -
      Free rubber bands for everyone. Lol.
    1. Varmit's Avatar
      Varmit -
      Quote Originally Posted by DontBeJealous View Post
      That's what I'm saying. Phones have always done this. People just look for any reason to bash Apple and their products. It's a shame.
      Goes to show that, your dammed if you do, Dammed if you dont, Its a no win situation. Im not sticking up for Apple. I hate them as a company, Love them as far as thier products go. I have been in business for over 16 years and I have been in the same situation. Its hard to come out on top. Apple has already been tainted by this atrocious b.s. EX: Firestone tires anyone?

      Quote Originally Posted by taz1981m View Post
      Free rubber bands for everyone. Lol.
      No damit, Its my solution to the problem. Like the BP Oil spill. Cant Apple just try my idea?

      Sheesh. Cant get anyone to listen to me.
    1. TheOrioles33's Avatar
      TheOrioles33 -
      Quote Originally Posted by iLoveWindows&iPhone View Post
      Many people hate apple, one example is there pc vs Mac commercials. Before the iPhone I was one of these people...couldn't stand apple, and there ridiculously lying commercials.
      I loved those commercials and they were spot on! No lying.
    1. Volerikan's Avatar
      Volerikan -
      I am able to replicate the issue with the bars in my house. But when I get downtown, a place where there is high signal power, I am unable to do it. So it mostly depends where the user is.
    1. rockdamighty's Avatar
      rockdamighty -
      Quote Originally Posted by Luppin View Post
      Thank god RIM called Apple out on their BS. I really can't believe that a multi-billion dollar international corporation like Apple would resort to "Antenna issue? Oh, well uh.....HAY LOOK AT THESE OTHER PHONES!!! THEY HAVE RECEPTION ISSUES TOO!! A Fix? Oh, well uh.....FREE CASES, FOR EVERYONE!!" And what was hilarious was when one of the reporters there sat there with his Blackberry Bold during the Q&A and was unable to replicate the reception issue, all Steve Jobs could say was "You may not see it in certain areas." So the Blackberry Bold (which Apple bashed in their press conference) only has reception issues in 100 million dollar testing facilities, while the iPhone 4 only has reception issues everywhere else on the face of the planet? Really don't see myself buying the iPhone 5 after all this.
      ---------

      nigga you ***.
    1. tekwiz's Avatar
      tekwiz -
      It's summed up quite nicely with two important things:

      You may see bar drop on other phones but you still don't need a case in order to not drop calls.

      Steve is telling you that this phone actually drops more calls, even if it's just under 1/100 yet would have you believe that it's still the best iPhone yet call wise. That doesn't even make sense.
    1. Venom1234's Avatar
      Venom1234 -
      Quote Originally Posted by cadsii View Post
      **** finally... someone with some sense... gee its 1/3 of the number of 3gs returns.. which was still better then any other phone...

      People will do anything to ***** now... Steve said you dont like it dont keep it, its pretty simple, and with 1 million units selling a week its not like people dont like it, obviously they do cause the phone provides features and look that no other phone does, this is why you are here right now on this forum, cause you joined when you got your first awesome iphone, now you will ***** about anything....

      Dont like it, return it and move on, stop your winning.. And go head to BBforums and ***** there about their ugly phones...

      And only reason they compared it to other phones, just to show that this is not ONLY an iPHone issue.
      Next you'll see videos of the iPhone going into the lake and people ******** about it that it stopped working after. What do you think apple will do, they will grab the top 10 phones and throw them all in the lake, why cause this is the easiest way to clear any confusion, they will show their product behaving ordinary, like other phones. I just dont get why people are ********, u CAN TAKE IT BACK if you dont want it.

      And for someone like me this set me clear because i never owed those other phones so i would have never been able to test it to compare.

      Competition is why we have the technology we have today, its great and advances us.
      Spoken like a true apple fanboy, when you see SJ ask him why he lies about statistics that everyone knows is BS cause we all know he's full of ****. I for one know if iPhone was never able to be jailbroken or had people to jailbreak it apple would lose a lot of it's sales...who wants a locked down expensive iPod they can't do nothing with...I sure don't.
    1. lerrysan's Avatar
      lerrysan -
      Exellent, the more people that don't want the iPhone 5, the faster I cam have mines. I've had this problem since the very first iPhone. When you used to hold it on the black plastic bottom I'd drop all bars and go to 0. So I started to hold the phone from the from the top. With the 3G and 3GS, I didn't see signal loss cause I was so used to holding the on the top, that I never cares to hold them any differently, and with the iPhone 4.... Well it's been the same thing. Everyone eventually will put a case on the phone, so I don't know why all this comotion. Yes ita true about the signal loss.... But again, it's been there since day one of the iPhone....
    1. ZipZapp's Avatar
      ZipZapp -
      I think the overarching reason why this is more of an issue with IP4 is that you can watch the signal drop to ZERO. Meaning the call is lost.

      I am sure that other phones loose signal when held in certain ways, but the IP4 is the first to show the drop so dramatically.

      Would like to see those same videos on utube, reshot with the same phones and the new 4.0.1

      Just curious is they start with 5 bars (probably not).

      We have all suspected that Apple fudged the iphones to make the ATT network look better. We should be more upset about that deception and be demanding partial service refunds.
    1. lerrysan's Avatar
      lerrysan -
      Quote Originally Posted by volerikan View Post
      i am able to replicate the issue with the bars in my house. But when i get downtown, a place where there is high signal power, i am unable to do it. So it mostly depends where the user is.
      exactly!!!
    1. tekwiz's Avatar
      tekwiz -
      Besides that, as Steve said, all the phone makers use different algorithms for their bar display, if you have a brain you automatically know then that just because he's showing you the bars go down on all the phones, the actual signal amount they are going down is LESS.
    1. dougal22's Avatar
      dougal22 -
      I tried the "death grip" with my 3GS and it went down 3 bars. So the problem is not just the 4.

      But is it really a problem? I dont have a 4 but from my experience, having my 3GS for 5 months now (and a 3G & 2G before that), I have never had any dropped calls.
    1. tekwiz's Avatar
      tekwiz -
      Quote Originally Posted by lerrysan View Post
      exactly!!!
      Correct, just that iPhone drops more of the signal when it's antenna is being antennuated. And common sense says that a hand in direct contact with an antenna is going to do that more than if the antenna was internal like all the other phones he demo'd. The cases should make it equal. It sucks though because it really is a gorgeous phone.
    1. rocky5's Avatar
      rocky5 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Venom1234 View Post
      Spoken like a true apple fanboy, when you see SJ ask him why he lies about statistics that everyone knows is BS cause we all know he's full of ****. I for one know if iPhone was never able to be jailbroken or had people to jailbreak it apple would lose a lot of it's sales...who wants a locked down expensive iPod they can't do nothing with...I sure don't.
      The only reason I bought an iPod touch, iPhone 3G and my 3Gs and when I say bought I mean full price no contract crap.

      But I know that apple are not a good company every one knows, they pick on little companies willy-nilly or any one that questions them.

      In my eyes
      Macs = simplicity
      PC's = user choice, advanced

      But this is my opinion I will never purchase a mac as I have no need, no pc crashes no slowdown pc runs super quick and I can play the latest games all for half the price of a basic mac.

      So unless your not a comp guru or you just want something that you can flaunt about and say hey look at me I bought a mac then get one.

      And I know this because my M8 wants one not for it's performance or the OS but to say I HAVE A MAC which I find sad.

      I don't go about shouting I have a iPhone, loooooook at meeeeeeee I'm amazing.

      IPhone great device but not so good phone lol you know it has to perform 100% at being a phone, if it doesn't then it's just an iPot wrongly named.
    1. spiderguy84's Avatar
      spiderguy84 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Venom1234 View Post
      Spoken like a true apple fanboy, when you see SJ ask him why he lies about statistics that everyone knows is BS cause we all know he's full of ****. I for one know if iPhone was never able to be jailbroken or had people to jailbreak it apple would lose a lot of it's sales...who wants a locked down expensive iPod they can't do nothing with...I sure don't.
      Spoken like a true idiot. Got to love the philosophy of, if I'm not happy with a statistic then I will just call whoever said the number a liar. I personally believe everything that the RIM CEO said to be a lie. Everyone knows it's total BS. Just a bunch of blabber from a moron who will spout off personal opinions unverifiable statements such as the iPhone would never sell if it wasn't for jailbreaking. Give me a break idiot.