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  • RIM, Nokia Fire Back at Apple



    As expected, the smartphone manufacturers that Apple dragged into its own iPhone 4 reception mess have not responded favorably to the sweeping accusations made by Apple chief Steve Jobs during Friday's much talked about press conference. During the presentation in which Jobs announced a free case distribution program for iPhone 4 owners, a very large target was made out of Apple's biggest competitors in the smartphone marketplace.

    Alluding to the infamous Death Grip, Jobs said this sort of thing "doesn't just happen to the iPhone." In fact, he boldly asserted that the likes of "Nokia, Motorola and other phones" have the same nagging issue. He then went on to demonstrate how the BlackBerry Bold 9700 and the Samsung Omnia II similarly lose bars when held improperly. Following the presentation, Apple.com unveiled a whole new wing to the site that is pretty much exclusively dedicated to explaining that other smartphones also have fatal reception problems. In fact, this is just about the most attention Apple has ever given to its competition. Of course, none of this attention is positive. And, as a result, there are some angry executives at competing companies that are firing back at Cupertino less than twenty-four hours since Apple fired the first shot.

    Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie - the CEOs of RIM (the makers of Blackberry) - issued a formal and scathing response to Apple's harsh critiques.

    Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple.
    Shortly after RIM's chief executives issued choice words to Apple, Nokia followed suit, offering the following:

    Antenna design is a complex subject and has been a core competence at Nokia for decades, across hundreds of phone models. Nokia was the pioneer in internal antennas; the Nokia 8810, launched in 1998, was the first commercial phone with this feature. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying human behavior, including how people hold their phones for calls, music playing, web browsing and so on. As you would expect from a company focused on connecting people, we prioritize antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict. In general, antenna performance of a mobile device/phone may be affected with a tight grip, depending on how the device is held. That’s why Nokia designs our phones to ensure acceptable performance in all real life cases, for example when the phone is held in either hand. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying how people hold their phones and allows for this in designs, for example by having antennas both at the top and bottom of the phone and by careful selection of materials and their use in the mechanical design.
    Other smartphone makers tossed under the bus by Apple are yet to respond. But something tells us they are hard at work this weekend preparing a well-crafted response to the far-reaching jabs Apple took on Friday to distract from the iPhone 4 "Death Grip" that Steve Jobs maintains is vastly overblown in the press.

    InformationWeek
    This article was originally published in forum thread: RIM, Nokia Fire Back at Apple started by Michael Essany View original post
    Comments 248 Comments
    1. flash66's Avatar
      flash66 -
      Quote Originally Posted by ronfin44 View Post
      Lets be clear. He didn't misspell anything. That's not a spelling mistake. It's not a typo when you use a completely different word. You don't "misspell" a contraction. I only pointed that out on top of his statement that the "bar drop" doesn't exist at all and if you lose a few bars you should "lift your ef'ing pinky and stfu". Yeah, that's clearly the statement of someone well educated, so I'm not surprised his grammar matches his ignorance on this topic.
      Quoting his private message to me:

      "So when another moron that didn't read your first post and only your second one jumps to your cause you think that vindicates you? haha. Wow. You're desperate for validation huh. Learn how to use "your", and "you're" like most educated people do, and stop trying to hide your inadequacy by ranting on about the little games you supposedly made for the App store. I run a painting business on the side and hire high-school kids. I can bet they know the difference between "your, and "you're" you ******* moron."


      The saga of ignorance continues! Ok, I'll stoop to YOUR level since the name calling continues, despite a huge attempt of being the bigger person.

      Your an ignorant moron! Go paint something and shut up already!
    1. TheOrioles33's Avatar
      TheOrioles33 -
      THATS IT!! I'm closing this thread!! Oh wait, I'm not a mod.
    1. ronfin44's Avatar
      ronfin44 -
      Quote Originally Posted by flash66 View Post
      Look, the phone does not lose bars from gripping it. X marks the spot! Put your finger on the black line between the GSM and the Wifi antenna, and the attenuation changes. That's it. When your on the phone lift your f'n pinky, move it up, and SHUT THE F UP! If your left handed, Ill bet your not ******** at all. IF you are, you're the one full of sh**, not Jobs.



      Just so everyone knows how to drink a martini and hold their iPhones. Thanks flash! You just saved Apple, their engineers, and every i4 owner a huge headache! Woooo! lol

      Quote Originally Posted by flash66 View Post
      Quoting his private message to me:

      "So when another moron that didn't read your first post and only your second one jumps to your cause you think that vindicates you? haha. Wow. You're desperate for validation huh. Learn how to use "your", and "you're" like most educated people do, and stop trying to hide your inadequacy by ranting on about the little games you supposedly made for the App store. I run a painting business on the side and hire high-school kids. I can bet they know the difference between "your, and "you're" you ******* moron."


      The saga of ignorance continues! Ok, I'll stoop to YOUR level since the name calling continues, despite a huge attempt of being the bigger person.

      Your an ignorant moron! Go paint something and shut up already!
      You mean the reply to this mature gem I received first?:

      via PM: "What are you 16? Do yourself a favor and go kill yourself dude. I have better things to do with my time."


      I love irony. Maybe change your name from flash to fail.
    1. santacruzlocal's Avatar
      santacruzlocal -
      With a war like this ... We all win, I wish that AT&T and Verizon would get in a big biatch fight !!!!!
    1. cpjr's Avatar
      cpjr -
      People need to calm down. If ya'll cant discuss this calmly, you wont be discussing it at all. This is the one and only warning to be given out.
    1. treble26's Avatar
      treble26 -
      Quote Originally Posted by cpjr View Post
      People need to calm down. If ya'll cant discuss this calmly, you wont be discussing it at all. This is the one and only warning to be given out.
      LMAO he just shut everyone up. i love moderators.
      and now back to the topic.

      Quote Originally Posted by TheOrioles33 View Post
      Not at all. I'm just saying that if you are not experiencing signal drop when holding those other phones, then you most likely wont experience it with the iPhone 4.
      well i hope thats the case, because i really am looking forward to the iphone 4. im already designing a custom skin for it. my friend will make it into a sticker for me and it will be free of charge
    1. l0k0's Avatar
      l0k0 -
      OK here is an idea. Instead of arging about it and also arguing about how sumb Apple was to to release a phone that they knew had a flaw. Why doesnt everyone who owns an Isuck 4, return it and get ur money back. Then everyone else who has any other type of Iphone, sell it to those Isuck 4 owners for the price of the Isuck 4. This way, they will atleast have a phone that works 99% of the time. That other 1% is when the phone is turned off.

      Then noone will have anything to argue about anymore. Apple will be out a crap load of money. And they'll be forced to make a REAL PHONE next time.
    1. mortopher's Avatar
      mortopher -
      Quote Originally Posted by eZStaR View Post
      Battery design? Apple are experts at making all their devices last almost 2x if not 3x longer than ANY other device in the MARKET. Now lets compare

      1) Droid = Horrible Battery life, crappy android programming kills it. Look at reviews Im not going to explain my self in detail over and over.
      2) Evo, even WORSE battery life, in a review done by engadget showed the Evo from 75% battery life and gone down to 30% in 7 minutes. Explain? Did you see how long the iPhone battery lasts?
      3) Any of Apples laptops, all have 9-10 hour battery life. Now please tell me, how many laptops are there in the world which such epic battery specifications.

      Reason I am not comparing Bold 9700 is because its not a multi touch smart phone in the same area as the iPhone or Droid etc. SO battery life cannot be compared in such fashion.
      You attempt to refute his statement by using companies he never mentioned to begin with? That, boys and girls, is what grownups call a straw man fallacy.

      Quote Originally Posted by eZStaR View Post
      Says a mentally challenged patient.

      SO many users do not understand what is going on. Let me repeat, 1.7% out of a 100% are having this problem. Only 1.7%. Now do the math, I'm pretty sure they stated "We sold over 3 Million," if I am wrong, just do 1.7 million and do the math from there. How many users are affected?

      This problem is only occurring in now reception areas. Now because of these people think the iPhone 4 sucks. They fail to realize that its the best phone in the market as of now. So what they have no other carriers? So What there 1.7% cases of "death grip" crap going around? Look at the features of the phone, best battery life, best screen quality [Pixel density] best multitouch, [I think I can safely say, strongest built design], gyroscope, multitasking without battery drainage, facetime, best camera in the smartphone market, only 5mp with 720p HD video and picture which looks better than their competitors HTC etc with their 8 Mp cameras. List goes on. Best part, the iPhone is ORIGINAL. Not a rip off like all the others.

      If you think the iPhone 4 sucks, all I can say is, you sir need to get a brain. Go ahead return it and get a droid/htc phone, then you will cry back.
      First off, you don't have to say 1.7% out of 100%. It just makes you look stupid. Percent means exactly that, per 100.

      How many users are affected? At 1.7% of 3,000,000+ users, you have over 51,000 users that are affected. That's a pretty sizable amount of problems.

      Your list of reasons as to why the phone is the best phone on the market may very well be true except there's just one huge part missing from it; it's performance as AN ACTUAL PHONE. Steve even said that it drops more calls per 100 than the 3GS does.

      Don't get me wrong, I love my i4 but it's this blind loyalty and dismissal of facts that go against your opinion that makes people so sick and tired of you Apple fanboys.

      By the way, do you even have an iPhone 4?
    1. khiphone3g's Avatar
      khiphone3g -
      Wow.
    1. eZStaR's Avatar
      eZStaR -
      Quote Originally Posted by paganizonda83 View Post
      You attempt to refute his statement by using companies he never mentioned to begin with? That, boys and girls, is what grownups call a straw man fallacy.



      First off, you don't have to say 1.7% out of 100%. It just makes you look stupid. Percent means exactly that, per 100.

      How many users are affected? At 1.7% of 3,000,000+ users, you have over 51,000 users that are affected. That's a pretty sizable amount of problems.

      Your list of reasons as to why the phone is the best phone on the market may very well be true except there's just one huge part missing from it; it's performance as AN ACTUAL PHONE. Steve even said that it drops more calls per 100 than the 3GS does.

      Don't get me wrong, I love my i4 but it's this blind loyalty and dismissal of facts that go against your opinion that makes people so sick and fed up with you Apple fanboys.

      By the way, do you even have an iPhone 4?
      First off, you did not even read what I said. Just read a little bit closer between the lines and maybe you will understand. Here is a clue, how about look at the person I quoted? Thats a good idea. Do you see where it talks about the battery? Good good, now do you see where HTC Eris is included in the test footage from Apple, I simply put that phone in comparison with battery capacity. Put them together? Good job you did it! Does it make sense now!?


      1)
      First off, you don't have to say 1.7% out of 100%
      Well no durr, I was making a statement which no one seemed to understand. They keep thinking like 80% of the people are affected, which is clearly not true.

      2)
      Your list of reasons as to why the phone is the best phone on the market may very well be true except there's just one huge part missing from it; it's performance as AN ACTUAL PHONE.
      I think I made my self quite clear when I said
      This problem is only occurring in now reception areas. Now because of these people think the iPhone 4 sucks.
      And I understand the problem and the performance, But like I said only 1.7 % are affected, not SUCH a big deal. Can it be better? Yes, of course.

      3)
      blind loyalty and dismissal of facts
      Umm? Dismissal of facts? Everything I said was true, and Fanboy? Lol, don't make me laugh.

      4) Yes I do have a iPhone 4.
    1. awesomeSlayer's Avatar
      awesomeSlayer -
      Wow...this jailbreaking community is really giving me a bad taste in my mouth.
    1. mortopher's Avatar
      mortopher -
      I'm at a loss of words.
    1. defdad's Avatar
      defdad -
      Yeah, I think this thread is done.
    1. hancoma's Avatar
      hancoma -
      In the words of Peter Griffin from Family Guy " A little something from Conway Twitty to create a distraction"
      Nah, I'm to lazy to put a link in...you can youtube it!

      Good times in the forum today...I feel the love...LOL!
    1. Venom1234's Avatar
      Venom1234 -
      Quote Originally Posted by TheOrioles33 View Post
      Then what the hell do you recommend he talked about during the press conference?

      He proved his points and proved them well.
      Keep believing what you want fanboy, with that much *** kissing maybe Steve jobs will offer your sorry *** a job.
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      I really do wish everyone who bought iPhone 4 and have issues with it do return it, with enough people return it Apple will rethink their strategy. Because of people holding on to it it will not get them to do jack.
    1. Go Gators's Avatar
      Go Gators -
      I have all 4 of the different models of iPhones and the only one that I can get the signal to drop by holding it a certain way is the iPhone 4. Steve Jobs is full of it and just cant bring himself to admit that he released an iPhone that has a major design flaw! What a loser!
    1. Meglomaniac's Avatar
      Meglomaniac -
      i agree with most here.
      saying my product has a bad antenna but hey we are not the only one is pretty lame.

      Also i never saw those manufacturers come into the news on a death grip issue.
      Ofcourse any antenna gets weaker if you cover it but appearently these menufacturers have been doing more inovation on that area then apple.

      But since it's confirmed by apple i think i will wait a little longer before buying a iphone 4 now to see if they do anything else then give a ugly bumper to it....
    1. Ticozx's Avatar
      Ticozx -
      The other companies didn't get brought up in the news because they were not the big story and people acutally care about the iPhone 4. If you do not like the phone, return it, man up, and stop ********. It will not be the last apple product you buy because if you have bought a mac book pro (i did), then eventually you will continue to buy apple products because they are some of the most amazing things out there. Stop ******** so much, return your phones if you don't want it, and maybe some else will buy your phone and put a case on it, (I have a 3G and have never used it without a case).

      AGAIN, man up, stop ********, its getting annouying, and return it.
    1. neonsector's Avatar
      neonsector -
      Quote Originally Posted by iLoveWindows&iPhone View Post
      Is it just me... Or is anyone else so TOTALLY SICK of this crap?

      We all know their is a design flaw in the i4s attenna.... Personally this flaw does not affect me at all, for others it does. For those it does affect, u get a free bumper, which will completely solve any problems
      U might have. If this does not please u, u can return your phone.... It's very simple people.

      I personally believe the iphone4 is probably the coolest, most awesome thing I have ever bought! And of course I have a case on it!! It costs $600!!! Who the hell wouldn't buy a case!

      Perhaps this is apples own fault though, not just by the design flaw, but by how THEY have made people hate apple. I used to be one of those people...I used to hate apple and everything it made. Then those PC vs MAC commercials started, and i hated apple even more, lying in there commercials, acting as if anyone with a Mac was cooler than someone with a PC....

      My personal belief is there r still a lot of apple hatred out there still (a problem they created all on their own) and now it's biting them in the butt.

      I personally believe this is a big reason why Apple is such a huge target in the media, and the reason why this antenna problem Is being so blown out of proportion. ALOT of people HATE apple, the media knows this... So they r going to take shots when given the opportunity...guaranteed.
      its just you, we all all sick of the flawed design.
      The flaw does effect you?, you are just too dumb of a fanboi to admit it, its not a flaw in some phones, its on all of them, its a flaw in the antenna, unless you are a ******* alien and you dont conduct then I guess you are right.

      I dont use a case, I am not a hillbilly to throw my phone around,
      I loveD the phone because of its unique looks, I dont wanna put a fugly *** POS case on it so I can use my phone.

      Its not 600 dollars, its a 200-300 dollar phone on a ****** network with a 2 year man handled contract.

      I use nothing but mac products, but the **** went back within a week.

      Apple is a huge target in the media because they think their **** dont stink.
      Well guess what? it does stink.

      What steve jobs did with the rim phone and the nokia was ***.