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  • Engineer to CR: You're Doing It Wrong


    An electromagnetic engineer has found fault with the way Consumer Reports did its iPhone 4 testing, calling it "uncontrolled, unscientific" and no different than the simple experiments "that many of the blogging sites have done." While Bob Egan - who says he dealt with "exactly the kind of issues that now face Apple" in his career - stops short of saying that there is no problem, he says it was wrong of Consumer Reports to present their testing results as authoritative.

    As reported here on Monday, Consumer Reports claimed to have "confirmed" the reported antenna issue, replicating the results found by many users and more than a few blogs, and saying "it's official." Its lab tests consisted of setting up three new iPhone 4s in a sealed chamber with a "base station emulator," along with three other phones including an iPhone 3GS and a Palm Pre. Consumer Reports engineers are seen in the video of the testing in the lab, surrounded by a bunch of equipment with an iPhone in a clamp that looks like a robotic hand. Sure enough, when one of the engineers touches the lower-left corner, signal drops, and the other phones perform normally in the same tests.

    While the sealed chamber and base station emulator gave the ability to measure transmit power accurately, allowing more precise calculation of the difference between expected and observed signal, the test in general was no different than what Anand Shimpi had done weeks before, or really than what thousands of users have done on their own. Egan seems to be comparing the testing to an FCC certification test when he asserts that "the iPhone should have been sitting on a non-metallic pedestal inside an anechoic chamber," with no people inside the chamber and that "the base station simulator should have been also sitting outside the chamber and had a calibrated antenna plumbed to it from inside the chamber." He was asked in the comments to his blog post how they could have done the testing with no people inside. In response, Egan referred to the dummy heads used in specific absorption rate (SAR) testing of phones for the FCC. To gain meaningful information about the extent and possible cause of the problem, Egan notes, more scientific testing would have been necessary.

    It should be established beyond a reasonable doubt by this point that the Death Grip problem is real. Apple has no doubt confirmed the problem in its lab testing, and may even be starting to make moves to address it. While Consumer Reports probably overreached in saying the problem was "confirmed," it's at least another report - like Anandtech's - with detailed and specific results - and will hopefully be yet another spur for Apple to step up and deal with the issue directly.

    Source: AppleInsider
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Engineer to CR: You're Doing It Wrong started by Paul Daniel Ash View original post
    Comments 78 Comments
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      ^^How do you do reasearch when you pre-order the phone? That is when this problem first come up. Yes people can return it, but many people sold their previous iPhone for this new one (thankfully I was not one of them). If they buy another phone they lose all the Apps they paid with their hard earned money.
      It is Steve Jobs fault for claiming this new phone is revolutionary, it has best reception of all iPhones when it clearly does not. And guess what this return policy did not come up until recently. So Steve need to stop putting band-aid on a problem and fix the problem, because I can guaranty you that Apple lost quite a bit of former loyal customer already.
    1. ronfin44's Avatar
      ronfin44 -
      These "reports" are hilarious. None of them matter to me. When "I" grab my iPhone in the same manner I've grabbed EVERY phone I've ever owned, and the call drops and/or the signal drops to almost nil, well my evidence is right in-hand. They can argue and argue over scientific mumbo-jumbo, but this caveman knows a difference just by testing it in reality. ugh. Fapple.
    1. RICO_'s Avatar
      RICO_ -
      Still not too late for the nation-wide refund campaign against the iPhone 4. There's got to be at least half a million people experiencing this issue by now.

      Half a million refunds equals mega losses for Apple and a serious b*tch-slap wake up call.
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      ^^How do you do reasearch when you pre-order the phone
      Easy. Don't buy something sight unseen. You're making a childish
      excuse for irresponsible spending and emotional reactions to a
      product. I seriously don't understand why people buy something
      expensive without testing the damn thing first, figuring out whether
      it works to their satisfaction and deem it worthy of purchase before they buy it. If
      you're stupid enough to buy something blindly, you deserve what you
      get.

      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      It is Steve Jobs fault for claiming this new
      phone is revolutionary, it has best reception of all iPhones when it
      clearly does not.
      No, he's not at fault. You're at fault for believing marketing blindly, stop shifting your finacial responsibility on others. Everyone that is unhappy with this phone is at
      fault for rushing out and making a commitment to buy something they've
      never seen. You're making a childish argument that it's someone else's
      fault that you bought something blindly without finding out if it
      worked first. Would you buy a TV or a car by watching a press conference? No. It's no ones fault that you aren't happy with something
      you've never used or seen but yours.

      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      So Steve need to stop putting band-aid on a problem and fix the
      problem, because I can guarantee you that Apple lost quite a bit of
      former loyal customer already.
      No he doesn't, you have the option to return the phone for full refund any time you wish within 30 days of purchase. If what you mean by 'loyal customers' is dumbasses that believe whatever is said at a press conference then that is a good thing. Maybe now that they've experienced the real world and seen what stupidity does to your wallet maybe they will learn. Maybe not. Either way, they got what they deserved by lining up outside stores for many hours to buy something they'd never seen or touched. Don't do research, you deserve to get burned if you decide to keep something you don't like.

      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      Yes people can return it, but many people sold their previous iPhone for this new one (thankfully I was not one of them). If they buy another phone they lose all the Apps they paid with their hard earned money.
      Again, that's the individuals fault, not Apples or anyone elses. If you can't afford to pay for an iPhone 4 without selling your old one then you need to learn what a savings account is, OR wait until you deem the new iPhone 4 you've bought is worth keeping and then sell your old one. Simple common sense and responsibility. How is someone making a poor choice someone elses fault?


      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      And guess what this return policy did not come up until recently.
      Completely and utterly wrong. Apple and AT&T BOTH allow you to return an undamaged iPhone within 30 days and have since the very first one that came out. I don't know where you got that information from but you're completely wrong. I've attached a screenshot of their return policy if you feel that you don't believe me.

      Either way, people are stupid for lining up to buy a product sight unseen and then are complete dumbasses for demanding that their product be fixed when there is no proof that the condition is universally broken on every handset sold, and especially so when they can return the product for a full refund with ZERO penalty. It amazes me that people think they are owed a debt to a company that offers products that one is free to purchase or not purchase and has a system in place to return it if you are unhappy for any reason without a penalty. It's no ones fault but yours if you got into a deal you don't want to walk away from if unhappy. Same goes if you weren't prepared if the deal went south. There's nothing forcing you to buy or keep this phone.
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      Screenshot here.
    1. rhekt's Avatar
      rhekt -
      This is no surprise concerning consumer reports. Many if not all or a large sum of their testing is uncontrolled unscientific and blatantly incorrect.
    1. Melech518's Avatar
      Melech518 -
      Quote Originally Posted by cb22 View Post
      Interesting... You what I've noticed about this whole "death grip" thing. It all depends on were you located! I've been in Tampa for a few months now and I noticed that signal in my apt is great. I tried the death grip thing and I didn't lose any signal nor dropped bars! Went to ny a few days ago and all he'll broke loose. Lol!!
      Agreed. I haven't had any issues here in Tampa.
    1. one1's Avatar
      one1 -
      Apple is sure spending a lot of money on paying engineers to denounce others findings. Won't save you apple.
    1. Aliquippakid's Avatar
      Aliquippakid -
      Been checking this site religiusly for months now but this is the first time I needed to post on something. Are you telling me people get paid (probably six figures) in a recession like this to wear lab coats and play with iPhones? Where do I apply?
    1. topless1967stang's Avatar
      topless1967stang -
      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      Don't like it, take it back for a refund. It's that simple. Don't like the reply Steve Jobs gave to how it's supposed to be held and think it's wrong to treat customers that way, don't buy their products. Even better, do your damn research on a phone or anything else that costs hundreds of dollars. If you keep a defective product when it easily returned for a refund you deserve to be out the cost. It's your fault for wasting your money on something you know doesn't work to your satisfaction or fit your needs. No one is owed anything and no one is being screwed. This entitlement crap has got to stop. But you're right, you are paying for a luxury, but it's not Steve Jobs' fault if you keep something that doesn't work and you aren't satisfied with. It's yours.


      I did my research BEFORE I bought the phone. I got my phone on 23 June about 10:30AM EST. That means I was one of the very first non-Apple employee owners of the iPhone 4. I believe I am the FIRST person to post my 3G upload and download speeds on my iPhone 4, since I did this within 30 minutes of opening my iPhone 4 box. When I DID my RESEARCH, the Apple website did NOT mention that I should NOT hold my phone a certain way.

      I like Apple products, but don't try to say they didn't make a mistake. I've had every version of iPhone and even have an iPad and when there is a newer iPhone, I will buy that too.

      Don't try to defend someones mistake. You trying to stick up for a mistake makes YOU look like a mistake. And don't you try to tell me how to hold my iPhone 4 either.
    1. kuhndsn's Avatar
      kuhndsn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Cokeman View Post
      Why don't you STFU about the damn bumpers. If you want to put that cheap looking crap on your phone go for it.




      Yes it is defective. It is a PHONE if it doesn't get reception it just became a iPod Touch. I do have backup phones & I am using them. Because Apple made a PHONE that CAN'T hold reception for me to talk to people.



      I bought a iPhone 3G launch day, 3 days later I was at the Apple store getting a replacement. The phone would not hold reception. Dropped calls like crazy. Apple replaced it no problems. Here we are 2 years later and I have the same problem. Dropped calls. I went to the Apple Store again. This time I got a piss off. Why? Cause when the phone was on the counter it had service. I called the Apple store while in the store and my call dropped. Still they said the phone is fine. Used my 3GS to call the store did not drop the call. So it's pretty clear my iPhone 4 has a problem.
      I left with out a replacement. Went straight to the store I bought if from. Returned the phone. Waited for my contract to reset. Bought a new iPhone 4. Now this phone is better and drops the calls 75% of the time.
      So the question is. If my 3G had these problems and Apple exchanged it no questions asked. Why is it now they refuse to exchange a defective device? I don't think every iPhone 4 has the issue. I don't think Apple should issue a recall. I do think they should replace the phones that have reception issues.

      Now comes another problem. If i return this phone. I can not get another iPhone 4 on my line. Because Apple limits each line to 2 iPhones per year. I have until the 1st of Aug. to return it. If Apple hasn't fixed it I will return it and move on.
      Telling people to quit whining, crying, or b******* about it doesn't make it any less of a problem. I'm sure people are tired of hearing it. Hell I'm tired of hearing, but I'm also tired of being told buy a bumper. When Apple should step up and figure out what the problem is.
      Sorry so long.
      Well written and I see your point. I never said put a bumper. And you are one of the few that posted in a educated way... I would challenge your Apple store. I deal with ATT and they took my wifes phone back... three times in a week. So there sounds like something is a miss at your store...

      Again, mad respect for the way you articulated your post. Thanks

      D
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      Easy. Don't buy something sight unseen. You're making a childish excuse for irresponsible spending and emotional reactions to a product. I seriously don't understand why people buy something expensive without testing the damn thing first, figuring out whether it works to their satisfaction and deem it worthy of purchase before they buy it. If you're stupid enough to buy something blindly, you deserve what you
      get.
      No try I was too naive into trusting Jobs claims and believe Apple will continue to make quality products, believe me this will NEVER happen again. And many people on this forum feel the same as I do now.
      Consumer protection will be on my side, since Apple did not put out a product they claimed. I seem to recall all the ads saying best reception of all the iPhones, also recall something about upgraded proximity sensor... Yeah another fail on Apple, lots of people reports problems with proximity sensor.


      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      No, he's not at fault. You're at fault for believing marketing blindly, stop shifting your finacial responsibility on others. Everyone that is unhappy with this phone is at fault for rushing out and making a commitment to buy something they've never seen. You're making a childish argument that it's someone else's fault that you bought something blindly without finding out if it
      worked first. Would you buy a TV or a car by watching a press conference? No. It's no ones fault that you aren't happy with something you've never used or seen but yours.
      He is at fault for making claims that was not true. He represent Apple and what he said and what was printed is held accountable, thus there is a lawsuit against Apple for reception issues. If you read my previous posts I did not buy this phone, my company bought it for me so your claim of my financial responsibility is false. All I am asking for is him putting out a product as good as he advertised in black and white letters, which constitutes legal document.
      Yes I would pre-order a Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Lexus without testing it first. These are reputable company and will make good if something is wrong, which I thought Apple would do but apparently not. At least to this point, we will just have to see what Apple is going to say on Friday but I would not hold my breath.


      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      No he doesn't, you have the option to return the phone for full refund any time you wish within 30 days of purchase. If what you mean by 'loyal customers' is dumbasses that believe whatever is said at a press conference then that is a good thing. Maybe now that they've experienced the real world and seen what stupidity does to your wallet maybe they will learn. Maybe not. Either way, they got what they deserved by lining up outside stores for many hours to buy something they'd never seen or touched. Don't do research, you deserve to get burned if you decide to keep something you don't like.

      I did return the phone, I am now back on iPhone 3GS. But all the apps that I bought can not transfer over to my 3GS, unless you can somehow get iMovies onto 3GS without hacking the program? How about all the other apps I can not transfer?


      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      Again, that's the individuals fault, not Apples or anyone elses. If you can't afford to pay for an iPhone 4 without selling your old one then you need to learn what a savings account is, OR wait until you deem the new iPhone 4 you've bought is worth keeping and then sell your old one. Simple common sense and responsibility. How is someone making a poor choice someone elses fault?
      Please read clearly, I said people I did not say I sold it. Again it is Apple's fault because if they put out a product as good as they claimed, there would not be an issue here. I mean this is an iPhone is it too much to ask for it to work as a phone properly? BTW if you search my previous posts, my iPhone4 was purchased by my company. Only reason I get it is because I always get new tech to evaluate, once it gets my ok the rest of the company may get it. Well it did not and I am telling everyone not to get one for their personal use. Though this may not put much of a dent in millions Apple sells, but couple hundred is nothing to sneeze at.


      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      Completely and utterly wrong. Apple and AT&T BOTH allow you to return an undamaged iPhone within 30 days and have since the very first one that came out. I don't know where you got that information from but you're completely wrong. I've attached a screenshot of their return policy if you feel that you don't believe me.
      It is not until recently that there is no restocking fee or what ever they want to call it, if you don't believe me try looking it up.

      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      Either way, people are stupid for lining up to buy a product sight unseen and then are complete dumbasses for demanding that their product be fixed when there is no proof that the condition is universally broken on every handset sold, and especially so when they can return the product for a full refund with ZERO penalty. It amazes me that people think they are owed a debt to a company that offers products that one is free to purchase or not purchase and has a system in place to return it if you are unhappy for any reason without a penalty. It's no ones fault but yours if you got into a deal you don't want to walk away from if unhappy. Same goes if you weren't prepared if the deal went south. There's nothing forcing you to buy or keep this phone.
      No, a company will be held liable for their claims on their product. That is why there is consumer protection and laws to protect consumers. Again ZERO penalty is recent, Apple had a restocking fee until recently.
      It is not too much to ask a company to do what they claimed, and the law is on our side because all the printed ads are admissible as evidence. So tomorrow Apple better do the right thing, this can potentially hurt Apple significantly.
    1. topless1967stang's Avatar
      topless1967stang -
      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      No try I was too naive into trusting Jobs claims and believe Apple will continue to make quality products, believe me this will NEVER happen again. And many people on this forum feel the same as I do now.
      Consumer protection will be on my side, since Apple did not put out a product they claimed. I seem to recall all the ads saying best reception of all the iPhones, also recall something about upgraded proximity sensor... Yeah another fail on Apple, lots of people reports problems with proximity sensor.




      He is at fault for making claims that was not true. He represent Apple and what he said and what was printed is held accountable, thus there is a lawsuit against Apple for reception issues. If you read my previous posts I did not buy this phone, my company bought it for me so your claim of my financial responsibility is false. All I am asking for is him putting out a product as good as he advertised in black and white letters, which constitutes legal document.
      Yes I would pre-order a Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Lexus without testing it first. These are reputable company and will make good if something is wrong, which I thought Apple would do but apparently not. At least to this point, we will just have to see what Apple is going to say on Friday but I would not hold my breath.





      I did return the phone, I am now back on iPhone 3GS. But all the apps that I bought can not transfer over to my 3GS, unless you can somehow get iMovies onto 3GS without hacking the program? How about all the other apps I can not transfer?




      Please read clearly, I said people I did not say I sold it. Again it is Apple's fault because if they put out a product as good as they claimed, there would not be an issue here. I mean this is an iPhone is it too much to ask for it to work as a phone properly? BTW if you search my previous posts, my iPhone4 was purchased by my company. Only reason I get it is because I always get new tech to evaluate, once it gets my ok the rest of the company may get it. Well it did not and I am telling everyone not to get one for their personal use. Though this may not put much of a dent in millions Apple sells, but couple hundred is nothing to sneeze at.




      It is not until recently that there is no restocking fee or what ever they want to call it, if you don't believe me try looking it up.



      No, a company will be held liable for their claims on their product. That is why there is consumer protection and laws to protect consumers. Again ZERO penalty is recent, Apple had a restocking fee until recently.
      It is not too much to ask a company to do what they claimed, and the law is on our side because all the printed ads are admissible as evidence. So tomorrow Apple better do the right thing, this can potentially hurt Apple significantly.

      I agree. KartRacer is just being an ***, that maybe has other reasons for defending a phone with obviously blatant faults.
    1. Dj Meltdown's Avatar
      Dj Meltdown -
      Quote Originally Posted by x2dope View Post
      wasnt this already addressed? The Remedy is a case, tape, or not to grip your iphone like ur cooock when ur jerking off. Pretty simple really. Everyone just wants a little something extra...typical america that we live in today.
      No the remedy is to supply a product without issues. Buying something to make something else work is ridiculous! I'm pretty sure the problem is in the uk too. Think about it!! Your reply insults people with common sense

      Quote Originally Posted by Maxidrom2002 View Post
      drop calls is not really an apple thing, its more att+apple combination...
      Contradicting yourself much?

      Quote Originally Posted by FerrariCUBU View Post
      Seriously, can we all just get over the "death grip"? We know that it exists and Apple should fix it. People like this science guy trying to disprove the antenna problem are only causing more problems. I hardly notice the problem when gripping my i4. So, get a case, don't buy the phone, or stop talking about it!
      But you admit there is a problem & are dumb enough to just accept it. Can sell you a brand new car without a steering wheel?
      I'll sell ya the keys later

      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      Easy. Don't buy something sight unseen. You're making a childish
      excuse for irresponsible spending and emotional reactions to a
      product. I seriously don't understand why people buy something
      expensive without testing the damn thing first, figuring out whether
      it works to their satisfaction and deem it worthy of purchase before they buy it. If
      you're stupid enough to buy something blindly, you deserve what you
      get.



      No, he's not at fault. You're at fault for believing marketing blindly, stop shifting your finacial responsibility on others. Everyone that is unhappy with this phone is at
      fault for rushing out and making a commitment to buy something they've
      never seen. You're making a childish argument that it's someone else's
      fault that you bought something blindly without finding out if it
      worked first. Would you buy a TV or a car by watching a press conference? No. It's no ones fault that you aren't happy with something
      you've never used or seen but yours.



      No he doesn't, you have the option to return the phone for full refund any time you wish within 30 days of purchase. If what you mean by 'loyal customers' is dumbasses that believe whatever is said at a press conference then that is a good thing. Maybe now that they've experienced the real world and seen what stupidity does to your wallet maybe they will learn. Maybe not. Either way, they got what they deserved by lining up outside stores for many hours to buy something they'd never seen or touched. Don't do research, you deserve to get burned if you decide to keep something you don't like.



      Again, that's the individuals fault, not Apples or anyone elses. If you can't afford to pay for an iPhone 4 without selling your old one then you need to learn what a savings account is, OR wait until you deem the new iPhone 4 you've bought is worth keeping and then sell your old one. Simple common sense and responsibility. How is someone making a poor choice someone elses fault?




      Completely and utterly wrong. Apple and AT&T BOTH allow you to return an undamaged iPhone within 30 days and have since the very first one that came out. I don't know where you got that information from but you're completely wrong. I've attached a screenshot of their return policy if you feel that you don't believe me.

      Either way, people are stupid for lining up to buy a product sight unseen and then are complete dumbasses for demanding that their product be fixed when there is no proof that the condition is universally broken on every handset sold, and especially so when they can return the product for a full refund with ZERO penalty. It amazes me that people think they are owed a debt to a company that offers products that one is free to purchase or not purchase and has a system in place to return it if you are unhappy for any reason without a penalty. It's no ones fault but yours if you got into a deal you don't want to walk away from if unhappy. Same goes if you weren't prepared if the deal went south. There's nothing forcing you to buy or keep this phone.

      I'm sorry but this all seems a bit harsh. Apple have had 4 generations of iPhone, the product itself over the last few years has earned itself a reputation of being the best at what it does. A product must function as advertised. This one doesn't, hence the shitstorm that has been created.
      It's not like it's a brand new product. Both opinions have valid points, but it doesn't excuse the fact that this product doesn't function the way it should

      Quote Originally Posted by topless1967stang View Post
      I did my research BEFORE I bought the phone. I got my phone on 23 June about 10:30AM EST. That means I was one of the very first non-Apple employee owners of the iPhone 4. I believe I am the FIRST person to post my 3G upload and download speeds on my iPhone 4, since I did this within 30 minutes of opening my iPhone 4 box. When I DID my RESEARCH, the Apple website did NOT mention that I should NOT hold my phone a certain way.

      I like Apple products, but don't try to say they didn't make a mistake. I've had every version of iPhone and even have an iPad and when there is a newer iPhone, I will buy that too.

      Don't try to defend someones mistake. You trying to stick up for a mistake makes YOU look like a mistake. And don't you try to tell me how to hold my iPhone 4 either.
      I agree topless
      Isn't having a previous model enough research to go by? 3GS works fine
    1. TylerC161's Avatar
      TylerC161 -
      Quote Originally Posted by unison999 View Post
      Yeah how much did Apple pay this guy to say that? I am sure it is a lot less than $1+ billion Apple have to pay to do a recall.

      I mean if it fails with just simple test Consumer Reports did, why would there be a need to go deeper where only the phone is in the sealed room?
      In real life where people owns these phones, will they be sitting in a sealed room when being used? Hell no. That is just as rediculous as AppleDON'TCare's proof to customer there is no problem with the phone by only testing sitting flat on a table.
      Trying to distort the facts make this whole thing even worst, Apple screwed up they need to fix this or people will still not buy its product.
      Do you not know ANYTHING about science?

      When you do an experiment, you HAVE to have a controlled environment in which to test in otherwise the results can have other variables.
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      Quote Originally Posted by TylerC161 View Post
      Do you not know ANYTHING about science?

      When you do an experiment, you HAVE to have a controlled environment in which to test in otherwise the results can have other variables.

      Do you know anything about science required to confirm a problem exist for a Consumer Protection Group or are you stuck in high school lab too long? Don't bring up the high school science with controlled group and a test group, that is not needed here. When a poison killed a million rats, and you just want to confirm the poison do kill rats. You feed healthy rats poison and it dies in a few minutes, you do not need a controlled group that did not eat poison and lived to tell you the rats that ate poison died from poison.

      Consumer Reports did control an environment better than anyone else so far. I do not see the point of a dummy hand with a normal person's hand conductivity in there with nothing else.
      #1 when this phone used in real life it is not used by the Thing from Addam's Family, a real person holding the phone is required for this test to be valid.
      #2 when you can reproduce problem already there is no need for Consumer Reports to isolate the problem as to what caused it, it is not their job to fix this only confirm a problem exists. Apple is the one that need to go further to isolate the problem and fix it.
      So far Apple's response is ignoring the issue, so good luck on that. They do not fix it with Friday's announcement, time to return the iPhones and dump all your Apple stocks.
    1. elite_jounin's Avatar
      elite_jounin -
      Quote Originally Posted by skizo View Post
      lolwut?

      Why should we believe this guy (who was interviewed by 'appleinsider') over consumer reports, a well known and established reporting magazine/website?

      Seems more like a news fail to me.
      i agree!
    1. Cokeman's Avatar
      Cokeman -
      Quote Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
      So Apple is at fault because you can't learn your lesson? You can't get that, in your experience, Apple doesn't make a product you think that functions in line with your expectations and you keep coming back for more? Apple isn't your problem and neither is this phone. You keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. If you continue to buy things that don't work for you, you're the problem not Apple and not the iPhone.
      WOW, I'm now dumber having read your mindless blabbering. The problem is people like you defending Apple when it is plain as day, that a lot of iPhone 4's have a reception issue. The problem is Apple not standing by their warranty.
      I don't get how having every iPhone since launch. Never having a issue, that Apple didn't take care of. Makes it that I have not learned a lesson. I've never had problems with Apple until now.